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This topic has moved here: Subject: Super Secret Forum?
  • Subject: Super Secret Forum?
Subject: Super Secret Forum?

Why are you here?

Posted by: Saint of Taint
See... no, that wouldn't work.
Rankbased forums are not a good idea. What's the point of having a 50s only forum if not to talk about how pro and 1337 you are. Whats the point honestly?


To meet other 50's, discuss the ranking system and game from the perspective of 50's. Talk about matchmaking and the playlists you got your 50 in. Maybe get a couple of buddies who are also 50's to go play some games with you. Endless possibilities.

  • 12.05.2008 10:41 AM PDT

USAF Air Traffic Controller.
#moap

Or, just throwing this out their - you can take it or leave it... you can join many of the 50 groups and talk about that stuff there instead of asking a new forum to be opened. You can use the classifieds or even PM people. With all that we have now the possibilities are endless for talking about your prostrats and game perspectives.

  • 12.05.2008 10:45 AM PDT

yoo•zel- ('yoo-zhul): slang: vb.

Officium quod Fidelitas.

I think giving out powers like that would be rather wasteful and unproductive. It could potentially create arguments between 'neo' moderators and the current staff. Questions could be raised as to why they can't join HFCS or why they can't moderate the rest of the forum, not to mention you have to be a little off your rocker to really want to moderate for a living.

So what happens to the people that do brag and have questionable stats? Ban them, still doesn't make ends meet in a game. And at that... most of the 50's you meet... well, total jerks, I'd prefer not to read some of the stuff they could post.

I agree that the community of the 50 forum would not be any better than the Halo 3 forum is now, but there are always ways to fix it. Possibly find some trustworthy 50 Bungie members and give them access to mod ONLY the 50 forum, as they will have more incentive to visit being a 50 themselves. I am sure the mods we have now could regulate it pretty efficiently as well.

To the people that cheat for their 50's are just brought out into the open if they even mention something about their stats, eliminating the bragging rights they seek. It could work

  • 12.05.2008 10:45 AM PDT

Why are you here?

Posted by: Saint of Taint
Or, just throwing this out their - you can take it or leave it... you can join many of the 50 groups and talk about that stuff there instead of asking a new forum to be opened. You can use the classifieds or even PM people. With all that we have now the possibilities are endless for talking about your prostrats and game perspectives.


The same could be said for the member title forum, Foman specifically addresses it on page 4.

  • 12.05.2008 10:48 AM PDT

Why are you here?

Posted by: Yoozel
I think giving out powers like that would be rather wasteful and unproductive. It could potentially create arguments between 'neo' moderators and the current staff. Questions could be raised as to why they can't join HFCS or why they can't moderate the rest of the forum, not to mention you have to be a little off your rocker to really want to moderate for a living.

So what happens to the people that do brag and have questionable stats? Ban them, still doesn't make ends meet in a game. And at that... most of the 50's you meet... well, total jerks, I'd prefer not to read some of the stuff they could post.

I agree that the community of the 50 forum would not be any better than the Halo 3 forum is now, but there are always ways to fix it. Possibly find some trustworthy 50 Bungie members and give them access to mod ONLY the 50 forum, as they will have more incentive to visit being a 50 themselves. I am sure the mods we have now could regulate it pretty efficiently as well.

To the people that cheat for their 50's are just brought out into the open if they even mention something about their stats, eliminating the bragging rights they seek. It could work


I think that calling most 50s total jerks is an unfair stereotype. None of the 50s I have met are really jerks at all, but might generally have short tempers when called out on the public forums, which happens quite a bit. Being in an all 50 group with nearly 650 members, I can tell you that the 99% of the 50s in that group are nice people, who get angry at being called unlegit by a good majority on the regular forums. From my experience with the group, an all 50 forum would be a great place.

One thing I will point out is legit 50s are hostile against unlegit 50s, and many unfair accusations could spring up. I don't think that this will be a big problem if moderated well enough however.



[Edited on 12.05.2008 10:55 AM PST]

  • 12.05.2008 10:53 AM PDT

USAF Air Traffic Controller.
#moap

Waitaminute... you are in a group with all 50s that has 650+ members? Whats the point then>? I'm so confused.

[Edited on 12.05.2008 10:56 AM PST]

  • 12.05.2008 10:55 AM PDT

yoo•zel- ('yoo-zhul): slang: vb.

Officium quod Fidelitas.

Personal experiences will shape perception, what can I say? But you have just proved the redundancy of opening a forum simply for people who obtain a rank in a game but what I'm getting at is Bungie.net is a bigger picture than just Halo 3. Now the private groups system does negate your argument (even if were for example) because it allows the creation and self moderation of a target group of people or whom ever you want the group to be about.

But here in lies the problem... how do you get the word out about your group? That is the entire problem with the 7th Column as it stands. There is plenty to discuss but possibly going back in time, actually check the older news posts when groups were moderated and not everyone got approved to have a group of their own. Would going back to this system help focus more people into private groups to join and meet others of similar interests or just put people in a more personal environment to figure things out or just be able to finally talk without the burden of putting it on the public forums?

Posted by: z Floosy
I think that calling most 50s total jerks is an unfair stereotype. None of the 50s I have met are really jerks at all, but might generally have short tempers when called out on the public forums, which happens quite a bit. Being in an all 50 group with nearly 650 members, I can tell you that the 99% of the 50s in that group are nice people, who get angry at being called unlegit by a good majority on the regular forums. From my experience with the group, an all 50 forum would be a great place.

One thing I will point out is legit 50s are hostile against unlegit 50s, and many unfair accusations could spring up. I don't think that this will be a big problem if moderated well enough however.

  • 12.05.2008 11:08 AM PDT
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"To conserve the fighting strength!"

Posted by: Jay120171
Bobcast: the only ninja to operate an ER out of his mom's basement

Why do people assume that you have to be a 50 to be able to have an opinion about Halo?

Congrats you're good at a video game. Just because you can put a little reticulate on an animated head doesn’t mean that you have superior skills in discussion, judgment, and leadership.

IMO, from reading the crap spewed by 50’s it has an inverse relationship.

  • 12.05.2008 11:15 AM PDT

You all want a forum sponsored by Geico, Oh I get it, I'm leaving, but I get it. Pfff....

  • 12.05.2008 11:33 AM PDT
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Destinypedia - The Wiki for Bungie's Destiny
Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

Posted by: elmicker
the forum would be virtually free of spammers and alternate accounts created solely for rulebreaking
It would be free of everything. There's no reason whatsoever to post in such a forum other than, as you put it "for more interaction with Bungie employees." Which, pretty much, says everything there is to say.
That ignores the legions of people who have stated that they refuse to interact in the Halo 3 Forum due to the noise level, and who have lamented how quickly an intelligently created thread falls in lieu of "Rate the User's Armor Above You" or "What is your favorite saying when you pwn somebody" threads. In a forum that eliminates rulebreaking users, more intelligent threads can flourish. In a forum with less noise, these threads can remain on the front page of the forum for longer.

My own opinion is that there would be a significant migration to such a new forum by users who love discussing Halo 3 in a more detailed and extensive manner (assuming that the new forum is for Halo 3 discussion) than giving three-word answers to survey threads.

Clearly it's hard to gauge either way, but at least from my own interactions in the Halo 3 Forum and elsewhere on this site, which are significant, this is the conclusion I would predict.

If i'm not completely lampshaded by 3am (i'll be completely lampshaded by 3am) i'll respond in full to your wall of words, but there's really not much more to be said that hasn't been said. There's no reason to post in such a forum, it's massively redundant and would serve as nothing other than a status symbol. An excellent example would be RoosterTeeth's sponsor forums.Frankly, the Halo 3 Forum as it currently stands is the most shining example of massive redundancy that I can think of on this site. The repeat topics are quite literally out of control, especially when new announcements or updates occur. The threads containing great discussions that fall so quickly in that forum would have a better chance of flourishing in a restricted posting forum.

And I know you personally don't really care about it, but the chance to interact in a cleaner, quieter environment more often with Bungie employees, who obviously have a better knowledge of Bungie itself and of Halo 3, would be a huge draw to the forum for which many Bungie fans would be willing to improve their forum behavior, stick around, and stay more active. This could only be a good thing for Bungie and Bungie.net as a whole.

  • 12.05.2008 11:59 AM PDT

(random yet funny signature goes here)

Posted by: x Foman123 x


the chance to interact in a cleaner, quieter environment more often with Bungie employees, who obviously have a better knowledge of Bungie itself and of Halo 3, would be a huge draw to the forum for which many Bungie fans would be willing to improve their forum behavior, stick around, and stay more active. This could only be a good thing for Bungie and Bungie.net as a whole.


That forum space already exists, it's over at HBO. You'll find the employees there(except Achronos) posting and hanging out much more often than you will here.

  • 12.05.2008 12:05 PM PDT

Proud Member of the Worker's Revolution
Halo 3 in the Workplace

Yeah, you know, I guess I will act as the tool here who desperately WANTS a forum to discuss aspects of the game (and not to get attention from Bungie employees or anything else) in a place that isn't infested with people who basically want to have anonymous chat sessions on a forum about redundant or off-topic things. And yes, there are groups, and groups are great, but the interactions in the good groups I am in also leave me wanting a broader discussion sometimes than what even some big groups can offer.
I like the Halo 3 forum. I like many people in there. But, you get lost in the static, and even when you get, say, 4 people intelligently discussing something in a single thread, it is not going to last long because it ends up on page 2 within minutes, or gets totally destroyed by people just spamming it or turning it into a not-so-valuable discussion pretty quickly and with almost no effort required to do so, by the offending parties.
So, to over-simplify and say that this is some elitist ploy to gain status and pat each other on the back for status implies that people are well behaved only because they want to look special.
This is a totally shocking analysis of why people may behave on this site, at least to me.
The rules are easy to find and easy to follow. It isn't like it takes some major effort and force of sheer willpower to stay within the lines to maybe gain clearance enough to be considered "trustworthy".
I don't get why so many people think that the ONLY reason people would want to interact with a slightly filtered subset of the community based on past performance is somehow arrogant or aims only to impress Bungie employees or mods.

  • 12.05.2008 12:10 PM PDT
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Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

Posted by: MikeNeel
Posted by: x Foman123 x
the chance to interact in a cleaner, quieter environment more often with Bungie employees, who obviously have a better knowledge of Bungie itself and of Halo 3, would be a huge draw to the forum for which many Bungie fans would be willing to improve their forum behavior, stick around, and stay more active. This could only be a good thing for Bungie and Bungie.net as a whole.


That forum space already exists, it's over at HBO. You'll find the employees there(except Achronos) posting and hanging out much more often than you will here.
Although I love HBO and I think that Louis Wu does an awesome job with it, I still think that it would be desirable to have that kind of environment here on Bungie.net, which has more integration with the games, faster (instant) access to news, a carefully monitored and frequently upgraded site (not that Louis Wu and his people do ANYTHING wrong, because they don't, but the web team here actually does this as part of their paid jobs) and more accessibility to other users who might not be as familiar with Bungie subcommunities as the HBO folks are.

  • 12.05.2008 1:21 PM PDT
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  • 12.05.2008 1:40 PM PDT
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SPOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON!

Hmmm. I don't see what great things you're expecting from the above mentioned kind of forum.

First, it seems to be based solely on user titles. The axiom that people with higher titles are any more worthy than anyone else is precisely that, an axiom. Its an inane supposition with almost no real solid data to back such an axiom. All we have are anecdotes from our experiences here, and even those are not consistent. Titles may be an indicator of good behavior, but its not a measure of it. If that were the case, then users with higher member titles would never be banned, and since I remember banning a good number of Heroic, Legendary, and Mythic members when I was a moderator, that's not the case. Simply being here for awhile and potentially receiving less moderator attention is not a warranted method of determining trust just yet. Perhaps in the future, but not quite yet.

On top of that, making a forum solely to allow certain users to interact with one another is in fact redundant, as this is m ore or less an all inclusive place, as it should be. The only limits are private groups, and The Optimatch. The Otimatch has restrictions because it makes sense to have those restrictions. If you're not using a linked gamertag, then you don't really have any proof you actually play matchmaking, and as such don't need to contribute there. It fulfills a function. A forum based on member titles does not, at least not in as pragmatic terms.

The elitism thing is a red herring. Its not important. I don't think that needs any more input or discussion.

I believe private group forums fulfill everything Foman was talking about nicely, even though they have their flaws, because something which is a private forum clearly implies inclusivity. A "public" forum which does not let certain people interact based on such specious reasoning as they have not been around long enough is the very definition of unnecessary and redundant. Member titles mean nothing to anyone with at least the perspicacity to want to expand their horizons. That's not to say that member titles are not worth anything in general, because they have their place, but I think that using them for a selection process to who can and who can't do certain things is totally misunderstanding the spirit of them. They're meant as an incentive to stay out of trouble. While that's certainly a good thing overall, it does not at all fit into what I would hope the criteria of who is a good member and who is not denotes.

While I think a "public" forum that's not at all actually public is totally a step in the wrong direction, its not my only quarrel with this idea. The other thing many of you are discussing is a "good" place to talk about things like Halo 3. Your reasoning for this is the current Halo 3 forum is a mess and not worth your time. Well, what would making an exclusive forum about Halo 3 do to the current one? I think it would be publicly abandoning it, even if the moderators and admins are not trying to do that. It would be the same as saying "this is not worth the time of good members, so go nuts". That, in every way I think about it is counter-productive. And an exclusive forum would not fix any actual problems here, it would only either sweep them temporarily under the rug, or make them ALL worse via reaction.

My vote: there is no need for an exclusive forum. It won't solve any problem. The same problems that afflict the main public forums would not be assuaged at all, and those problems would likely find their way into the exclusive forum very very quickly. Its not worth our time.

Also, going on the rational used to justify this forum's existence (in that anecdotally theorizing about a sort of Utopia) historically should tell you that its bound to fail. Platitudes, and Utopian hypothesis have ALWAYS failed to deliver anything of substance. I don't see how this is any different.

[Edited on 12.05.2008 4:24 PM PST]

  • 12.05.2008 4:22 PM PDT
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If a super-secret forum meant more interaction with Bungie employees, then I would be super keen.

  • 12.05.2008 4:32 PM PDT
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Posted by: x Foman123 x


Posted by: stalts27
People post a certain way to get member titles. That is a fact. People post a certain way to keep member title. That is a fact. How could we possibly distinguish which people would be permitted into this "secret forum". The trust system? Obviously not. Personally, I believe this stie is not eHarmony, meaning that this forum is trying to create a group of people very closely related to each other. No one is taking a compatibility test and there is obviously no fair way to distinguish members who are "in" and those who are "out". This would only create more senseless posting to get "in".

My question to you is, what is your point? A user who modifies his posting style to comply with forum rules is doing exactly what the forum rules are intended to accomplish. That is, engaging in normal, reasonable, on-topic discussion. Big deal if that's not what they "want" to post.

I really don't see why this is a bad thing.

Foman, you completely missed my point. People are not censoring themselves to follow rules, which, as you stated is a good thing. However, people will not put themselves out there because fear of banning or general hatred by the public. This is not an issue of rules.



[Edited on 12.05.2008 4:35 PM PST]

  • 12.05.2008 4:33 PM PDT

It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, not the lawyer, who has given us the right to a fair trial. And it is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves the flag, whose coffin is draped in the flag that allows the protester to burn the flag.Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC

Posted by: Skibur
If a super-secret forum meant more interaction with Bungie employees, then I would be super keen.


That would be so nice. Then maybe i could finally see a giant drivable robot in the next halo game.

  • 12.05.2008 4:43 PM PDT

Foman OMG you just PWNED everything i hold dear

  • 12.05.2008 4:56 PM PDT

▀▄Halo2, Halo3, Forge, Slayer, Snipers, BR's...▄▀ ▄
▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀SAS Halo3▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄

Lol Foman's so fat he needs an entire page for himself.

No, but anyways after reading Sketch's post it'd be cool to have those "Private Like-Minded" groups.

  • 12.05.2008 5:16 PM PDT

I'm a ninja

Posted by: x Foman123 x
Posted by: elmicker
Rather, I'd like ways for those "valued" users to be able to set themselves apart and build an identity through entirely inconsequential features. The beginnings of such a system are there with the titles, but things like (limited?) custom avatars and titles would provide much more of an incentive to maintain an identity than there is on the site now.
I disagree. From my interactions through these forums and thousands of private messages from forumgoers, I have reached the opinion that the ability to post in a public forum is a much stronger incentive to follow the rules than the possibility of a custom avatar.

Building an identity here is not the same thing as being a rule-following, trustworthy user. Many users here have successfully built a very strong identity while being chronic rulebreakers. This idea of a public forum with restricted posting access for members with elevated titles is not for users who have an "identity." It is for users who have demonstrated trustworthiness, rule-following, and some level of dedication to the site (by "dedication," I mean that they post regularly). In other words, the kind of people who are likely to create a forum culture that encourages intelligent discussion rather than "noise."

I see nothing in your arguments against a restricted access forum that indicates that this would be a bad thing.

Posted by: stalts27
People post a certain way to get member titles. That is a fact. People post a certain way to keep member title. That is a fact. How could we possibly distinguish which people would be permitted into this "secret forum". The trust system? Obviously not. Personally, I believe this stie is not eHarmony, meaning that this forum is trying to create a group of people very closely related to each other. No one is taking a compatibility test and there is obviously no fair way to distinguish members who are "in" and those who are "out". This would only create more senseless posting to get "in".

My question to you is, what is your point? A user who modifies his posting style to comply with forum rules is doing exactly what the forum rules are intended to accomplish. That is, engaging in normal, reasonable, on-topic discussion. Big deal if that's not what they "want" to post.

I really don't see why this is a bad thing.

Posted by: Screecherz
I think you just solved the problem you identified in that post. Instead of babysitting us and covering our eyes from the bad stuff on TV, why dont you give us the option to mute or collapse other users posts? If we could permanently block other users from complete veiwing on this site, the Web Team wouldn't have to work so hard to create these barriers that eventually fall.
That's not a solution. That idea has been discussed numerous times in this forum for years, and always fails for two reasons:

1) There are hundreds of thousands of users on this site. How on earth would you block all of the bad ones? I can sit here banning people for 6 hours a day for seven days in a row from all of the public forums. I walk away, come back one hour later, and will STILL find posts that I don't want to see. The "mute" or "block" option would take extreme dedication to be effective -- dedication that no user on this site should have to put in.

2) Many people would never use it. Moderators certainly wouldn't. Neither would any other member who knows that sometimes, the same person can make great posts one day and break the rules another day. Neither would any member who wants to be able to follow the thread of discussion. Neither would the "casual" user who only hops onto Bungie.net once or twice a week, or even more infrequently. Yet all of these people are those who could potentially benefit from a forum culture of reduced "noise" and spam. This is why a "restricted access" forum is a superior approach.




There is a difference between intelligence and obedience. Just because you don't break rules, doesn't mean you can add thoughtful points to a discussion. Who knows how many high-ranking members are just mindless ass-kissers.

  • 12.05.2008 5:36 PM PDT

When life gives you lemons..... BUILD A LEMON BOMB!!!!

I don't really like the idea of 'ranking' people on contributions. This already goes on for example- when I join a party and there just so happens to be a guy with recon in the party, I get booted for absolutely no reason what so ever. They tell me "Your not respected enough" I find it unfair to judge people like this.

  • 12.05.2008 6:15 PM PDT

Tom Achronos
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"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

You may remember conversations I've had about the problem of "signal" vs "noise" in large forums. Giving a user the tools they need to filter out the content they don't want is definately one of those long term goals that would be part of any conversation on this kind of work (as well as things like group discovery and group tools).

At the same time, though, that doesn't help the new users who just drop in because they see a message of the day in one of our games... lowering the barrier of entry for community participation, while also allowing advanced users the right tools, is a big goal for community development, and a problem I think about quite a lot.

As Sketch mentioned though, we're real busy on the Halo 3 rendering work, with work on Halo 3: ODST moving full steam ahead too. So, don't worry about it for now, we'll worry about it and figure out how best to make this place better for everyone - the great thing about the web is that we can constantly iterate on our features.

Posted by: Screecherz
I think you just solved the problem you identified in that post. Instead of babysitting us and covering our eyes from the bad stuff on TV, why dont you give us the option to mute or collapse other users posts? If we could permanently block other users from complete veiwing on this site, the Web Team wouldn't have to work so hard to create these barriers that eventually fall.

Instead of leaving the division in the mind of a machine, why not give every individual person that power? That way it can never go faulty. I know a few people on this site that I would gladly block out if I was given that option.

  • 12.05.2008 7:15 PM PDT