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This topic has moved here: Subject: Super Secret Forum?
  • Subject: Super Secret Forum?
Subject: Super Secret Forum?
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  • Fabled Legendary Member
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lol bnet

Okay, my eyes are oozing a mixture of blood and tears.

Foman, China wants their SUPER MEGA wall back. But I admit I agree with every bit of it. The only thing I would add is that the super secret public forum should be either invite only, or acceptance from a higher power only.

To be honest, I used to make a lot of mistakes. I admit to some spam and awful post habits, but I hid in the Private Forums a lot, and reformed into a great poster. I enjoy having a logical argument. (No Halo 3 forum, then. lolol), but I still can retain that one-or-two-line funny post. I think that the admittance should be a "Hey, psst, you're cool. Wanna be in our super kool club? (No gurls alloud, but Cortana, k?)" kind of situation. The only addendum to this is that Mythic members should gain access automatically. From what I've seen, blue-bars make great, thought out posts.

Also, most of the people who are regular 7th Column members should be invited first. Many of the people in this thread, even, are displaying a great post manner and e-etiquette.

I know that the aforementioned system would be hard to implement, but a forum with 2,000ish awesome members (Rough estimate, but anywhere from 100 to 10,000 would be great.) would be fantastic.

Also, Yoozel made fun of 50s, lol.

[Edited on 12.05.2008 8:13 PM PST]

  • 12.05.2008 7:35 PM PDT

I'm a ninja

Then uh, why not just post then?

  • 12.05.2008 7:49 PM PDT

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I think it would be better if instead of how the forums are now, we give each forum its own chat room, if you wish to start a thread you will make your own subroom on that chat channel. I just think it would be a lot more practical, then posting and then spamming refresh. Although moderating would have to be constant. But the maturity of the general masses would need to increase drastically.Has this ever been explored?

  • 12.05.2008 8:14 PM PDT

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I've tried this also, I figured they were just Private Group forums, but some may actually be super secret admin forums or mod forums. :P

  • 12.05.2008 8:25 PM PDT
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It's probably just a staff only forum. On a different site that I'm a mod on we have a mod only forum like that where we usually just talk about site related stuff like problems that need fixing that is locked to site members. its probably nothing special.

  • 12.05.2008 10:31 PM PDT
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Posted by: testtrackfreak
It's probably just a staff only forum. On a different site that I'm a mod on we have a mod only forum like that where we usually just talk about site related stuff like problems that need fixing that is locked to site members. its probably nothing special.

That's HFCS here.

  • 12.05.2008 10:55 PM PDT

coffee is the life-blood that fuels the dreams of champions

ive read quite a few of the post in here now for and against some sort of member title forum. i personally dont like it at all. not because of my title specifically, but sort of. i mean, i am here quite literally all day, just cruising, seeing what people have to say, and posting when i have something that is worth saying.

now i admit, that with the current state of things posting something intelligent isnt really an option given what is being written on the forums. with that said, i dont post a lot, and because of that i dont have a high rank at all on the forums. i really have no idea how the ranking system works on this site in terms of rank, and i dont care because its never mattered. with something like this implemented, it would be a sort of segregation on the site that would be quite dramatic, really creating a class system amongst halo 3 players that would divide the whole community to a degree that i think would impact it detrimentally.

obviously this idea would be sweet for the people who get those high ranks, but it would keep those people in those high rank forums and that would be that. the private groups sort of do that now, but because of those groups secificity, and with the entry into most groups being dictated by people and not by some crazy title that it balances out more. if you had some sort of elite club, a gentlemans club so to speak on bungie.net, things would change for the worse. i dont know how, i cant give specific examples, but it would be bad, things on here would never be the same.

this site and its admins and the higharchy of users dictate changes to this site, hardcore users of this site if you understand my meaning. they say whats good and whats bad. your a select few inteh grand scheme of halo owners. people who play this game dont need some sort of members only club to go along with the game. not if you only think of this community as your own little hardcore halo playground. i really just think its wrong. its not what this site is about.

i like comming on to the site and seeing what everyone has to say. not just the random crazy idea, the complainers, the cheaters, the idiots, but also the smart, intelligent reasonable people. i like to see what EVERYONE has to say, and with a forum dedicated to the hgiharchy, i wont have that. people new to the site wont have that. i think i come on here and post intelligently, respectfully, sometimes i post a reply that i think is funny, so a random nonsense post, but whatever, thats bungie.net, thats OUR community. the proposal for segregation based on intelligence, maturity level, what have you is simply that, segregation. not quite for the people that are "mythic" members, but for the other people. you can live in your fancy "rich" forum district and come downtown when you feel so inclined, but not the rest of the lowly not so hardcore halo or bungie fans, or even the people who are here but just dont feel like posting.

this is all a bad idea, and i know that its a long long way off, but i urge you who are not in favour of this to speak up now. this is rediculous.

and sketch, "to each is own", well ya, to each is own i guess, but you can apply that to some pretty crazy situations that are flat out wrong, like this. to each his own is not some sort of be all and end all to differing opinions. and when you use it it doesnt mean that your "own" is right. this whole thing is a bad idea. really really bad

  • 12.05.2008 11:12 PM PDT

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Posted by: evilcam
If that were the case, then users with higher member titles would never be banned, and since I remember banning a good number of Heroic, Legendary, and Mythic members when I was a moderator, that's not the case.
*cough*

Member titles are a poor show who hangs with which crowds, general behaviour and attitudes towards the rules. How many 'respectable' members have been banned repeatedly? Quite a lot of the Mythic group have been. So, since they're the smallest minority here after Moderators/staff (who have also been banned, mostly in amusing situations), would it not stand to reason that you cannot possibly dictate a groups behaviour by a title?

Mythics who spend most of their time in groups are quite common, mostly the '04 and earlier crowd who got bored after Halo 2 and departed for greener pastures.

blahblahblah a filtering system other than title/ban history is probably required.

  • 12.05.2008 11:44 PM PDT

Posted by: testtrackfreak
It's probably just a staff only forum. On a different site that I'm a mod on we have a mod only forum like that where we usually just talk about site related stuff like problems that need fixing that is locked to site members. its probably nothing special.


Either that or it's just there to tease us.

  • 12.06.2008 5:12 PM PDT

Halo3Planet, the place for all things Halo 3..

Need help finding skulls, make sure to go here.

I can think of several members, as well as I, who would love to post and partake in a restricted forum, but wouldn't be able to do so for many reasons, including lack of a title due to a lack of interest in the forums because of their current state. They were good members in their time, but their post rate has dropped because there, quite frankly, isn't as much worth talking about anymore. Would I have to post again, in large quantities, in order to gain access to a restricted forum, or would past behavior be a good enough reason?

  • 12.06.2008 8:10 PM PDT
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Posted by: roman arrow12
I can think of several members, as well as I, who would love to post and partake in a restricted forum, but wouldn't be able to do so for many reasons, including lack of a title due to a lack of interest in the forums because of their current state. They were good members in their time, but their post rate has dropped because there, quite frankly, isn't as much worth talking about anymore. Would I have to post again, in large quantities, in order to gain access to a restricted forum, or would past behavior be a good enough reason?


Exactly.

Then there are people that flutter between titles all the time. (EX: Me)

That would be a bit frustrating to have access to a forum only a few days in a week, and not others.

  • 12.07.2008 10:41 AM PDT

I'll be on my own side.

If such a system ever were to be implemented, I doubt you'd have access restricted or granted based solely on activity, for the reasons you just stated.

  • 12.07.2008 12:42 PM PDT

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Posted by: Knee-Dust
If such a system ever were to be implemented, I doubt you'd have access restricted or granted based solely on activity, for the reasons you just stated.
Well, yeah, I'd imagine there would be a requirement to manually accept or reject people from that forum. Kinda like how groups work. The argument against that there, would be that would it not be redundant to have a VIP-club of sorts in the main forums, when you could easily do the same in groups?

I figure that there's a lot more out here in the main forums (such as styles, layouts, and general overall activity, and ease-of-access) that would be preferable to have over a group.

  • 12.07.2008 12:48 PM PDT

Community Carnage group
They call me Arch. YOU SHALL NOT PASS!

Posting on the forums: 5 minutes.
Making a thread: 20 minutes.
Claiming you are the alt of a banned account: Priceless.
For everything else, there's stosh.

Posted by: SonicJohn
Posted by: Knee-Dust
If such a system ever were to be implemented, I doubt you'd have access restricted or granted based solely on activity, for the reasons you just stated.
Well, yeah, I'd imagine there would be a requirement to manually accept or reject people from that forum. Kinda like how groups work. The argument against that there, would be that would it not be redundant to have a VIP-club of sorts in the main forums, when you could easily do the same in groups?

I figure that there's a lot more out here in the main forums (such as styles, layouts, and general overall activity, and ease-of-access) that would be preferable to have over a group.



I could not agree more S.J... Took the words right out of my mouth... errrm well Finger tips in this case.

  • 12.07.2008 12:50 PM PDT

I'll be on my own side.

Even if this system was automated (which it most likely would be, given the amount of members on this site), there most likely would be multiple criteria, much like the title system now.

  • 12.07.2008 12:58 PM PDT

Community Carnage group
They call me Arch. YOU SHALL NOT PASS!

Posting on the forums: 5 minutes.
Making a thread: 20 minutes.
Claiming you are the alt of a banned account: Priceless.
For everything else, there's stosh.

Posted by: Nedus
Even if this system was automated (which it most likely would be, given the amount of members on this site), there most likely would be multiple criteria, much like the title system now.


So pretty much it would double up on the system we have now...What's the point?

  • 12.07.2008 1:00 PM PDT
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Posted by: Knee-Dust
Even if this system was automated (which it most likely would be, given the amount of members on this site), there most likely would be multiple criteria, much like the title system now.

Indeed, although that would be tough. If I were in charge of this system, my goal would be to only allow people in with a certain criteria, but make it harder for them to be kicked out. For example, bans will kick you back out, lack of activity wouldn't, but prior to that you'd need a certain ban history AND activity level to initially get in.

  • 12.07.2008 1:00 PM PDT

I'll be on my own side.

Posted by: ArchAssain
Posted by: Nedus
Even if this system was automated (which it most likely would be, given the amount of members on this site), there most likely would be multiple criteria, much like the title system now.


So pretty much it would double up on the system we have now...What's the point?

I'm speculating, like everyone else is here.

  • 12.07.2008 1:01 PM PDT

Community Carnage group
They call me Arch. YOU SHALL NOT PASS!

Posting on the forums: 5 minutes.
Making a thread: 20 minutes.
Claiming you are the alt of a banned account: Priceless.
For everything else, there's stosh.

*taps finger together*

Speculations... excellent! Muahaha!

  • 12.07.2008 1:03 PM PDT
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Posted by: CAVX
...in with a certain criteria...

The problem with this is criteria are inherently flawed. No matter how many criteria you throw at the problem, it'll always be missing something, and if you keep throwing criteria onto the list, you simply end up blocking out legitimate users. That's why people in a casual environment like this should never slavishly follow guidelines.

So your only option is to put people in charge. If you filter people past the list, there'll be no point to the forum at all. You'd essentially be implementing a private group, so as i said earlier, it'd be entirely redundant. If you allowed everyone in and removed them if they were disruptive, you'd essentially have the public forums and again it'd be entirely redundant.

  • 12.07.2008 1:13 PM PDT
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Posted by: x Foman123 x
In a forum with less noise, these threads can remain on the front page of the forum for longer.

Yes, but creating a new, exclusive forum doesnt actually solve any problems for the users complaining of noise. The problems are still there. All you're doing is creating a new, redundant, forum where you can exercise a greater level of control. If you honestly think that kind of exclusive control would be beneficial to discussion, why don't you exercise it over the H3f as the default position?

My own opinion is that there would be a significant migration to such a new forum...
And i'd say you're wrong. People who can be bothered jumping through hoops to get into exclusive forums are already in places where intelligent discussion can happen. They're all goons or gafers or hbo regulars already. Why would they come back here? There's nothing here those places don't have. Hell, they've even got bungie employees.

The threads containing great discussions that fall so quickly in that forum would have a better chance of flourishing in a restricted posting forum.
So make it a restricted posting forum. If it's out of control, why is it still there?

...This could only be a good thing for Bungie and Bungie.net as a whole.
Assuming they'd post here. B.net isn't exactly the Ritz of the internet forum world. As i said earlier, those bungie employees so inclined to make themselves known as such on public forums tend to be goons and gafers. Goons and gafers hate b.net. Why would they post here?

  • 12.07.2008 1:28 PM PDT
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Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

Posted by: evilcam
(Snipped to reduce overall post length)
I promised evilcam I'd respond to his post, which is one of the few posts to actually outline potential detriments of a "restricted-posting for Heroic and higher member titles only forum" (rather than reasons that such a forum is unnecessary), so here goes:

First, I think it's important to determine exactly what this restricted-posting forum would be intended to accomplish. I think that to call the forum "exclusive" implies a level of separation from users without elevated member titles that would really not be present. This would not be a place for users who are "good members." This definition is far too subjective -- a person who might be seen as a "good member" by some might be seen as boring, a troll, or even a "bad user" by others. I wouldn't even define it as a place for "helpful, contributing members."

Instead, this forum would be a place for everyone to see and read, but where only users with elevated member titles can actually post. In other words, going on what we know from the member title system, users who have been around awhile, shown a certain level of activity, and shown that they are able to post within the forum rules (plus whatever other factors go into the title system). A quick glance around this forum confirms that there are all kinds of users who meet this definition -- lots of different personalities, lots of differing opinions, and lots of varying degrees of both activity and involvement. The only things, in fact, that all users with elevated member titles have in common are the three factors I just mentioned.

These factors (length of membership, activity, and posting within forum rules) would be intended to accomplish one thing in a restricted-posting forum: a reduction in spam, repeat topics, flaming, and rulebreaking. This forum would not be Utopian by any means; users would still get into the same disagreements, strong arguments, and have the same wide array of interests and opinions that they have in any other public forum.

The similarities between this forum and the Optimatch Forum are, I think, closer than some users realize. A restricted-posting forum would be a place where any and every casual user, hardcore user, infrequent visitor, and non-user of the site can observe discussion about whatever the forum is intended to accomplish (presumably, Halo 3 discussion or perhaps general Bungie discussion). Yet, its purpose would be to create a forum restricted to users who have demonstrated a certain activity level (meaning that they are more likely to be up-to-date on recent events), have been around awhile (meaning that they are less likely to create repeat or redundant topics), and have demonstrated an ability to post within forum rules (meaning less chance of rulebreaking posts). The member title serves as "proof" of these three factors, and ONLY these three factors. It does not serve as proof of good contribution, being a nice guy, community involvement, or anything else affected by the bias, subjectivity, and/or opinion of any other individual on the site (except, of course, to the extent that the "automatic" factors that go into a trust rating are determined by the web team).

As a result, I believe that a public restricted-posting forum based on member title would be a place with fewer new threads, more in-depth discussions, fewer one-liners, and much less spam, flaming, and trolling. In other words, it would be a friendlier and more in-depth discussion forum for discussion, debate, and opinion, rather than a place for users to get the answers to their one-liner questions ("where's my katana?" or "what is Halo 3: ODST?"), conduct contests and surveys ("think up a gamertag for me and get 800 MS points!" or "what's your favorite weapon?"), play forum games ("rate the user above you" or "come up with your own Halo 3 Achievements"), or gain attention for their pet projects ("check out this clan/group/machinima/screenshot/film clip/website"), all of which are main "purposes" of the Halo 3 Forum as it currently stands and the reason that the noise level is so high.

I don't believe that this restricted-posting forum based on member title would accomplish any Utopian purpose -- it would not be the world's greatest forum, and everybody would not love everybody else. It would not be a place to find a group of friends who you have everything in common with, and it would not be a farm system for future moderators or Bungie employees. It would simply be a place where, if you want to take the time to type out a 5000- or 8000-character post for the purposes of having a more in-depth discussion, you could do so without having to watch your thread become buried in 5 minutes under forum games and topics that users create mostly for selfish reasons.

I believe that my reasons that private groups do not fulfill this purpose have been adequately stated previously, so I won't take up any more space with that. Your points about private groups are great ones, cam, but they tend to go more towards the reasons that private groups would make the creation of an "attempted Utopian forum" both redundant and a failure, rather than what a restricted-posting forum would actually be intended to accomplish.

As far as the argument that this would be a public abandonment of the current Halo 3 Forum -- well maybe, in a way, it would. But I still believe that this would merely be an abandonment of the Halo 3 Forum as a place to conduct in-depth discussion free of trolling, flaming, and spam, which is currently impossible except through dedicated bumping by the OP or "buddies" of the OP, which is a violation of the forum rules anyway. The Halo 3 Forum would still be "the" place to go to have a simple question answered, participate in "survey" threads, note small glitches or issues and ask for advice on how to solve them, and get input/advice on a variety of topics. Redundancy would be avoided thanks to the current rules against cross-posting and the implementation of new rules designed to avoid other forms of redundancy. The Halo 3 Forum would still be moderated, and would not be "abandoned" by any means.

Besides, it's difficult to argue that users with elevated member titles would "abandon" the Halo 3 Forum when it is clear that many have already done so. Despite urging by other members to please attempt to "lead by example" in the Halo 3 Forum, new topics created by users with elevated member titles are extremely rare (as they probably should be by any user regardless), and in fact, users with elevated titles are a rare commodity in the Halo 3 Forum anyway. So much so, in fact, that when a user with a higher title DOES post in that forum, it is frequent to see new threads in the Halo 3 Forum by newer members asking about the member titles.

I could easily go through and find several topics where the first 50 posts contain zero participation by users with elevated member titles (here's one currently on the front page). This is not because there aren't very many of them around. Users with elevated member titles post every few minutes in other forums and private groups, including this one, and in fact are frequently easy to find in more in-depth, lengthy, and unique threads in the Halo 3 Forum, when those topics are created. Therefore, a new restricted-posting forum would not be the cause of any abandonment of the Halo 3 Forum. Clearly, many veteran rule-abiding users have already abandoned it, and the only question is how we can get these users more involved in the forums that are interesting to the general public again (as much as I love this forum, I think that the people who are primarily interested in it are those who truly are the hardcore fans of Bungie and/or this website).

As a result, I still think that the factors weighing in favor of such a forum continue to outweigh the factors against it, and the only questions would be how to solve issues of "forum arrogance" and unfair exclusion of members who clearly would be able to meaningfully interact in such a place.

[Edited on 12.07.2008 2:33 PM PST]

  • 12.07.2008 2:01 PM PDT
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Posted by: x Foman123 x
Posted by: evilcam
(Snipped to reduce overall post length)
I promised evilcam I'd respond to his post, which is one of the few posts to actually outline potential detriments of a "restricted-posting for Heroic and higher member titles only forum" (rather than reasons that such a forum is unnecessary), so here goes:

First, I think it's important to determine exactly what this restricted-posting forum would be intended to accomplish. I think that to call the forum "exclusive" implies a level of separation from users without elevated member titles that would really not be present. This would not be a place for users who are "good members." This definition is far too subjective -- a person who might be seen as a "good member" by some might be seen as boring, a troll, or even a "bad user" by others. I wouldn't even define it as a place for "helpful, contributing members."

Instead, this forum would be a place for users with elevated member titles. In other words, going on what we know from the member title system, users who have been around awhile, shown a certain level of activity, and shown that they are able to post within the forum rules (plus whatever other factors go into the title system). A quick glance around this forum confirms that there are all kinds of users who meet this definition -- lots of different personalities, lots of differing opinions, and lots of varying degrees of both activity and involvement. The only things, in fact, that all users with elevated member titles have in common are the three factors I just mentioned.

These factors (length of membership, activity, and posting within forum rules) would be intended to accomplish one thing in a restricted-posting forum: a reduction in spam, repeat topics, flaming, and rulebreaking. This forum would not be Utopian by any means; users would still get into the same disagreements, strong arguments, and have the same wide array of interests and opinions that they have in any other public forum.

The similarities between this forum and the Optimatch Forum are, I think, closer than some users realize. A restricted-posting forum would be a place where any and every casual user, hardcore user, infrequent visitor, and non-user of the site can observe discussion about whatever the forum is intended to accomplish (presumably, Halo 3 discussion or perhaps general Bungie discussion). Yet, its purpose would be to create a forum restricted to users who have demonstrated a certain activity level (meaning that they are more likely to be up-to-date on recent events), have been around awhile (meaning that they are less likely to create repeat or redundant topics), and have demonstrated an ability to post within forum rules (meaning less chance of rulebreaking posts). The member title serves as "proof" of these three factors, and ONLY these three factors. It does not serve as proof of good contribution, being a nice guy, community involvement, or anything else affected by the bias, subjectivity, and/or opinion of any other individual on the site (except, of course, to the extent that the "automatic" factors that go into a trust rating are determined by the web team).

As a result, I believe that a public restricted-posting forum based on member title would be a place with fewer new threads, more in-depth discussions, fewer one-liners, and much less spam, flaming, and trolling. In other words, it would be a friendlier and more in-depth discussion forum for discussion, debate, and opinion, rather than a place for users to get the answers to their one-liner questions ("where's my katana?" or "what is Halo 3: ODST?"), conduct contests and surveys ("think up a gamertag for me and get 800 MS points!" or "what's your favorite weapon?"), play forum games ("rate the user above you" or "come up with your own Halo 3 Achievements"), or gain attention for their pet projects ("check out this clan/group/machinima/screenshot/film clip/website"), all of which are main "purposes" of the Halo 3 Forum as it currently stands and the reason that the noise level is so high.

I don't believe that this restricted-posting forum based on member title would accomplish any Utopian purpose -- it would not be the world's greatest forum, and everybody would not love everybody else. It would not be a place to find a group of friends who you have everything in common with, and it would not be a farm system for future moderators or Bungie employees. It would simply be a place where, if you want to take the time to type out a 5000- or 8000-character post for the purposes of having a more in-depth discussion, you could do so without having to watch your thread become buried in 5 minutes under forum games and topics that users create mostly for selfish reasons.

I believe that my reasons that private groups do not fulfill this purpose have been adequately stated previously, so I won't take up any more space with that. Your points about private groups are great ones, cam, but they tend to go more towards the reasons that private groups would make the creation of an "attempted Utopian forum" both redundant and a failure, rather than what a restricted-posting forum would actually be intended to accomplish.

As far as the argument that this would be a public abandonment of the current Halo 3 Forum -- well maybe, in a way, it would. But I still believe that this would merely be an abandonment of the Halo 3 Forum as a place to conduct in-depth discussion free of trolling, flaming, and spam, which is currently impossible except through dedicated bumping by the OP or "buddies" of the OP, which is a violation of the forum rules anyway. The Halo 3 Forum would still be "the" place to go to have a simple question answered, participate in "survey" threads, note small glitches or issues and ask for advice on how to solve them, and get input/advice on a variety of topics. Redundancy would be avoided thanks to the current rules against cross-posting and the implementation of new rules designed to avoid other forms of redundancy. The Halo 3 Forum would still be moderated, and would not be "abandoned" by any means.

Besides, it's difficult to argue that users with elevated member titles would "abandon" the Halo 3 Forum when it is clear that many have already done so. Despite urging by other members to please attempt to "lead by example" in the Halo 3 Forum, new topics created by users with elevated member titles are extremely rare (as they probably should be by any user regardless), and in fact, users with elevated titles are a rare commodity in the Halo 3 Forum anyway. So much so, in fact, that when a user with a higher title DOES post in that forum, it is frequent to see new threads in the Halo 3 Forum by newer members asking about the member titles.

I could easily go through and find several topics where the first 50 posts contain zero participation by users with elevated member titles (here's one currently on the front page). This is not because there aren't very many of them around. Users with elevated member titles post every few minutes in other forums and private groups, including this one, and in fact are frequently easy to find in more in-depth, lengthy, and unique threads in the Halo 3 Forum, when those topics are created. Therefore, a new restricted-posting forum would not be the cause of any abandonment of the Halo 3 Forum. Clearly, many veteran rule-abiding users have already abandoned it, and the only question is how we can get these users more involved in the forums that are interesting to the general public again (as much as I love this forum, I think that the people who are primarily interested in it are those who truly are the hardcore fans of Bungie and/or this website).

As a result, I still think that the factors weighing in favor of such a forum continue to outweigh the factors against it, and the only questions would be how to solve issues of "forum arrogance" and unfair exclusion of members who clearly would be able to meaningfully interact in such a place.



....... Wow.......

  • 12.07.2008 2:06 PM PDT
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I don't think there would be any point of a Super Secret Forum. We already have one anyway, and It has something to do with Corn Syrup.....anyway, I think that the motive of a secret thread would be pointless, and it would only arouse more messages pleading people of authority to reveal it.
Another horde of spam PM's is the last thing a Moderator would want.

  • 12.07.2008 2:07 PM PDT