- last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT
Posted by: x Foman123 x
Posted by: evilcam
(Snipped to reduce overall post length)I promised evilcam I'd respond to his post, which is one of the few posts to actually outline potential detriments of a "restricted-posting for Heroic and higher member titles only forum" (rather than reasons that such a forum is unnecessary), so here goes:
First, I think it's important to determine exactly what this restricted-posting forum would be intended to accomplish. I think that to call the forum "exclusive" implies a level of separation from users without elevated member titles that would really not be present. This would not be a place for users who are "good members." This definition is far too subjective -- a person who might be seen as a "good member" by some might be seen as boring, a troll, or even a "bad user" by others. I wouldn't even define it as a place for "helpful, contributing members."
Instead, this forum would be a place for users with elevated member titles. In other words, going on what we know from the member title system, users who have been around awhile, shown a certain level of activity, and shown that they are able to post within the forum rules (plus whatever other factors go into the title system). A quick glance around this forum confirms that there are all kinds of users who meet this definition -- lots of different personalities, lots of differing opinions, and lots of varying degrees of both activity and involvement. The only things, in fact, that all users with elevated member titles have in common are the three factors I just mentioned.
These factors (length of membership, activity, and posting within forum rules) would be intended to accomplish one thing in a restricted-posting forum: a reduction in spam, repeat topics, flaming, and rulebreaking. This forum would not be Utopian by any means; users would still get into the same disagreements, strong arguments, and have the same wide array of interests and opinions that they have in any other public forum.
The similarities between this forum and the Optimatch Forum are, I think, closer than some users realize. A restricted-posting forum would be a place where any and every casual user, hardcore user, infrequent visitor, and non-user of the site can observe discussion about whatever the forum is intended to accomplish (presumably, Halo 3 discussion or perhaps general Bungie discussion). Yet, its purpose would be to create a forum restricted to users who have demonstrated a certain activity level (meaning that they are more likely to be up-to-date on recent events), have been around awhile (meaning that they are less likely to create repeat or redundant topics), and have demonstrated an ability to post within forum rules (meaning less chance of rulebreaking posts). The member title serves as "proof" of these three factors, and ONLY these three factors. It does not serve as proof of good contribution, being a nice guy, community involvement, or anything else affected by the bias, subjectivity, and/or opinion of any other individual on the site (except, of course, to the extent that the "automatic" factors that go into a trust rating are determined by the web team).
As a result, I believe that a public restricted-posting forum based on member title would be a place with fewer new threads, more in-depth discussions, fewer one-liners, and much less spam, flaming, and trolling. In other words, it would be a friendlier and more in-depth discussion forum for discussion, debate, and opinion, rather than a place for users to get the answers to their one-liner questions ("where's my katana?" or "what is Halo 3: ODST?"), conduct contests and surveys ("think up a gamertag for me and get 800 MS points!" or "what's your favorite weapon?"), play forum games ("rate the user above you" or "come up with your own Halo 3 Achievements"), or gain attention for their pet projects ("check out this clan/group/machinima/screenshot/film clip/website"), all of which are main "purposes" of the Halo 3 Forum as it currently stands and the reason that the noise level is so high.
I don't believe that this restricted-posting forum based on member title would accomplish any Utopian purpose -- it would not be the world's greatest forum, and everybody would not love everybody else. It would not be a place to find a group of friends who you have everything in common with, and it would not be a farm system for future moderators or Bungie employees. It would simply be a place where, if you want to take the time to type out a 5000- or 8000-character post for the purposes of having a more in-depth discussion, you could do so without having to watch your thread become buried in 5 minutes under forum games and topics that users create mostly for selfish reasons.
I believe that my reasons that private groups do not fulfill this purpose have been adequately stated previously, so I won't take up any more space with that. Your points about private groups are great ones, cam, but they tend to go more towards the reasons that private groups would make the creation of an "attempted Utopian forum" both redundant and a failure, rather than what a restricted-posting forum would actually be intended to accomplish.
As far as the argument that this would be a public abandonment of the current Halo 3 Forum -- well maybe, in a way, it would. But I still believe that this would merely be an abandonment of the Halo 3 Forum as a place to conduct in-depth discussion free of trolling, flaming, and spam, which is currently impossible except through dedicated bumping by the OP or "buddies" of the OP, which is a violation of the forum rules anyway. The Halo 3 Forum would still be "the" place to go to have a simple question answered, participate in "survey" threads, note small glitches or issues and ask for advice on how to solve them, and get input/advice on a variety of topics. Redundancy would be avoided thanks to the current rules against cross-posting and the implementation of new rules designed to avoid other forms of redundancy. The Halo 3 Forum would still be moderated, and would not be "abandoned" by any means.
Besides, it's difficult to argue that users with elevated member titles would "abandon" the Halo 3 Forum when it is clear that many have already done so. Despite urging by other members to please attempt to "lead by example" in the Halo 3 Forum, new topics created by users with elevated member titles are extremely rare (as they probably should be by any user regardless), and in fact, users with elevated titles are a rare commodity in the Halo 3 Forum anyway. So much so, in fact, that when a user with a higher title DOES post in that forum, it is frequent to see new threads in the Halo 3 Forum by newer members asking about the member titles.
I could easily go through and find several topics where the first 50 posts contain zero participation by users with elevated member titles (here's one currently on the front page). This is not because there aren't very many of them around. Users with elevated member titles post every few minutes in other forums and private groups, including this one, and in fact are frequently easy to find in more in-depth, lengthy, and unique threads in the Halo 3 Forum, when those topics are created. Therefore, a new restricted-posting forum would not be the cause of any abandonment of the Halo 3 Forum. Clearly, many veteran rule-abiding users have already abandoned it, and the only question is how we can get these users more involved in the forums that are interesting to the general public again (as much as I love this forum, I think that the people who are primarily interested in it are those who truly are the hardcore fans of Bungie and/or this website).
As a result, I still think that the factors weighing in favor of such a forum continue to outweigh the factors against it, and the only questions would be how to solve issues of "forum arrogance" and unfair exclusion of members who clearly would be able to meaningfully interact in such a place.
....... Wow.......