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Posted by: elmicker
Posted by: x Foman123 x
But, what are the problems that would remain?...
Well the H3f forum would still be there, with exactly the same conditions as it has now. You made quite a song and dance of how little content there is contributed by higher-ranked members. So, if the higher ranked members are shifted elsewhere, nothing will actually change in H3f. It'll still be a hellhole of -blam!- and spam. That's a quality resource for new members, that is.But this ignores the post of yours that I was responding to. I was asking what problems would remain in response to your post that "creating a new, exclusive forum doesnt actually solve any problems for the users complaining of noise." The users complaining of noise, especially in this forum, tend to be those users with elevated member titles. Moreover, any user who is a "Member" without an elevated member title would still be able to observe the good discussion in a restricted-posting forum. To me, a new forum with less noise, by definition, solves the problems of users complaining of noise.
The Halo 3 Forum would still be a hellhole of spam and repeat topics, but that's unlikely to change no matter what we do, unless we refuse to allow newer members to create new threads, which is really not a terrible idea.
...To say that there is already another external website where people can go for great discussion does not really provide a reason that this website should not have a similar area, in my opinion.
That's because that's not what i said. I said it'd be an underused forum because people who want intelligent discussion have already left and gone elsewhere. You'd have to develop an entirely new class of b.net users to populate it, and you'd be developing them in an unchaged environment. It's a concept doomed from the outset.That really seems to be kind of a dig at everybody who uses BNet as their primary place to discuss Bungie and/or Halo. I would strongly disagree with this. Certainly, some users use other sites instead, but observation of several of the Optimatch Forum's popular threads, as well as the Halo- and Bungie- related private groups here on BNet, confirms that plenty of intelligent, well-spoken members remain here on Bungie.net. To say that all intelligent users have left Bungie.net pays all of these people a rather disingenuous insult. Besides, why not entice the users who have left with a forum that might make them want to come back?
Users who might potentially good posters, but have not yet demonstrated familiarity with the site and its rules would simply have to be here for a while longer and actually demonstrate these traits before being allowed to post in the forum.
I more than support this sentiment, but taking it to a private, exclusive environment will do nothing for those users. People who it's targeted at already have superior alternatives and those who remain aren't exactly stellar discussion buddies.
Your entire analysis of the problem perplexes me. You state the problems as too many new members making repeat topics, so the solution is to shift everyone worthwhile to a seperate forum. It's completely backward.
Far superior solution in every respect would be to simply extend the "No posting topics for 24hrs" rule to "No posting topics until you're heroic" in busy forums. Far more transparant, leaves out the elitism and the ivory tower nature inherent to the private forum concept, actually improves on a current forum and attempts to solve some of its problems. At least try and save what we've got before abandoning it for Oldsville.Frankly, I see your alternative solution as being equally effective, but inferior to the restricted-posting forum idea for a couple of reasons. I like the suggestion, but due to the nature of many of the users who come here, I foresee two problems.
First, users are impatient, and despite urging from admins, moderators, and frustrated veteran members all over the place, users continue to create new threads even when the answers to their questions are easily found using the search feature, scanning the forums, or, for the love of God, looking at the website's front page news story. Stop these users from creating new threads, and they won't stop asking their repeat questions -- instead, they will begin hijacking other people's threads. Currently, the Halo 3 Forum's setup is at least rather simple to moderate when I'm in a rush because I usually know whether a thread will need to be locked before I even enter the thread.
Prevention of creating new threads would mean that threads would need to be continuously scanned for off-topic posts or attempted thread hijacking, and instances of such behavior would, in my opinion, increase.
Second, if you stopped regular "Members" from posting at all, it would drive new members away from this community and, moreover, make it impossible for users to ever reach "Heroic" member unless the current system of rating user trust were to be changed. Bungie.net should be a place where even the most casual Bungie fan or site visitor can, if they want to, interact. Creation of a new forum where posts by users are restricted to those users who have a demonstrated history of activity, length-of-membership, and rule-following does not stop such interaction.
It's funny -- you first claimed that such a forum would be "redundant" and that nothing would change. But now, you claim a detriment to the Halo 3 Forum as members with higher titles are "shifted" to the new forum. Regardless, though, I don't think that either effect would result. As I pointed out before, "everyone worthwhile" would not necessarily be "shifted" to the new forum. I think that the Halo 3 Forum would still be a place for simple Halo 3 topics, and for veteran members to swing by and help out by answering new users' questions and participating in interesting threads -- a role that they almost ALWAYS fulfill anyway, as new threads by Heroic-or-higher members are exceedingly rare in the Halo 3 Forum and, regardless of the reasons, many members with elevated titles have outright stated that they don't even go there anymore.
I also think that improvement in the Halo 3 Forum would result as regular members would see the restricted-posting forum, be able to view every topic in there, see the intelligence and quality of the topics there, want to post there, and thus emulate the posting style of these forums. Regardless, it's hard to argue that the forum would get any worse -- the new bad topics in the Halo 3 Forum are already created by regular members. Giving Heroic-and-above members a quieter environment in which to post and interact, while still allowing viewing access to all members and non-members, would certainly not cause an increase in bad threads in the Halo 3 Forum.
[Edited on 12.07.2008 8:22 PM PST]