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  • Subject: The 7th Column Council
Subject: The 7th Column Council

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Posted by: H47
Lets not get into anything even slightly political. And..Er.. I don't know if there should be a Council leader. If there is, he should have only a slight more power than the others. Nothing major.

H47 ;-)


agreed.

  • 05.15.2005 5:49 AM PDT
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I know I havnt been active in this thread but heres my opinion about leaders. You gotta have one. Without a leader things will take forever to decide, just like on this 7th council idea. A leader has to be put up or things will never be set in stone with out mass voting, which is ineffiecient and not reliable. (on b.net anyway). and oh yeah, try to keep this as unpolitical as possible. We wouldnt want this thread banned. :)

  • 05.15.2005 7:15 AM PDT

Ach! Was ist los?

I would personally advocate rotating council leaders on a weekly or bi-weekly basis.

  • 05.15.2005 8:04 AM PDT
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I think what we are seeing here is only a brief sign of what is about to come. Lets factor in a few things shall we.

Ok [or Hoe-k deppending on you love of group-x.........moving on........]

Recently When bungie elected a new mod there was a certain amount of uproar from various people. Needless to say I belive that this will almost certainly happen whe we elect a council.

Technically even though a member like Gods Prophet is a well know member and I was a member before he was, we do not out rank each other in anyway. If he was to get a seat I , trusting the Bungie.net staffs judgement, would happily except him in.

Not everyone will though.

Now

Lets say the council gets cocky. One guy thinks he's better or does more work than the other. A fight breaks out. The Council takes sides.

So lets say hypathectically that the guys keep it up. People will lose respect for them. It will be useless to give them any power because,

'Without respect, power is nothing'

So. Say that doesn't happen. Could we get a council that is elitest? That "I serve the Bungie.net users" oath is good enough, but will they follow through? Fully?

Will they need a C.O.C [Code of Conduct]?

All lof the questions need to be though out by every one before we go about saying things. Learn from history.

That is all for now

- Toji

PS. Remember. 'Sharp Knives' don't always mean a clean cut.

  • 05.15.2005 8:08 AM PDT

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Posted by: Toji
I think what we are seeing here is only a brief sign of what is about to come. Lets factor in a few things shall we.

Ok [or Hoe-k deppending on you love of group-x.........moving on........]

Recently When bungie elected a new mod there was a certain amount of uproar from various people. Needless to say I belive that this will almost certainly happen whe we elect a council.

Technically even though a member like Gods Prophet is a well know member and I was a member before he was, we do not out rank each other in anyway. If he was to get a seat I , trusting the Bungie.net staffs judgement, would happily except him in.

Not everyone will though.

Now

Lets say the council gets cocky. One guy thinks he's better or does more work than the other. A fight breaks out. The Council takes sides.

So lets say hypathectically that the guys keep it up. People will lose respect for them. It will be useless to give them any power because,

'Without respect, power is nothing'

So. Say that doesn't happen. Could we get a council that is elitest? That "I serve the Bungie.net users" oath is good enough, but will they follow through? Fully?

Will they need a C.O.C [Code of Conduct]?

All lof the questions need to be though out by every one before we go about saying things. Learn from history.

That is all for now

- Toji

PS. Remember. 'Sharp Knives' don't always mean a clean cut.



Wow. sopme very wise words there. I also agree. The problem with a leader is that people may be jelous or just not like the guy/girl. The problem with no leader is that it may be that nothing ever gets done due to dissagreement.

It is something that must be ergently addressed, and i shall try to think of a solution.

On a more personal note, can i just say "Huh? i'm well known? I know I post a lot, but well known?".

Thank you. That is all.

  • 05.15.2005 10:18 AM PDT
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Posted by: PhreakShow
With a democratic council comes the need for a Council Head. Democracy fails when their are no leaders - any organization fails when there are no leaders, for that matter.

Well Communism failed because of it's leaders... :P

And in the council it'd be better for the group to remain equal, to prevent powerplays.

Tristan ;-)

  • 05.15.2005 6:38 PM PDT
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Posted by: Gods Prophet

Wow. some very wise words there. I also agree. The problem with a leader is that people may be jelous or just not like the guy/girl. The problem with no leader is that it may be that nothing ever gets done due to dissagreement.

It is something that must be ergently addressed, and i shall try to think of a solution.

On a more personal note, can i just say "Huh? i'm well known? I know I post a lot, but well known?".

Thank you. That is all.


Yes. agreed. I am positive Bungie.net staff have though this over. Hummmm.........

  • 05.16.2005 2:10 AM PDT
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Posted by: Gaara of Sand
Posted by: PhreakShow
With a democratic council comes the need for a Council Head. Democracy fails when their are no leaders - any organization fails when there are no leaders, for that matter.

Well Communism failed because of it's leaders... :P

And in the council it'd be better for the group to remain equal, to prevent powerplays.

Tristan ;-)

Yes, that is true, but it seems that a majority of peopledo want a leader. If it comes down to that, like I said, he shoulden't have much more power than the other members. Just some thing small, but distinguishable.

H47 ;-)

  • 05.16.2005 4:48 AM PDT
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Well Communism failed because of it's leaders... :P

And in the council it'd be better for the group to remain equal, to prevent powerplays.

Tristan ;-)


That's communism not democracy. But, talking about politics is against Bungie.net forum rules. I didn't intend to start discussing political science.

With regard to a leader, I doubt there is going to be a "power hungry" Council member. In the slight chance that there is, what is the worst they could do? Put up the Chapter of their choice in the Chapter Spoltlight? I'm not suggesting we place an "all powerful" leader poisition in the council, rather someone who can have a final say in close decisions or split ideas.

  • 05.16.2005 8:02 AM PDT

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Posted by: H47
Posted by: Gaara of Sand
Posted by: PhreakShow
With a democratic council comes the need for a Council Head. Democracy fails when their are no leaders - any organization fails when there are no leaders, for that matter.

Well Communism failed because of it's leaders... :P

And in the council it'd be better for the group to remain equal, to prevent powerplays.

Tristan ;-)

Yes, that is true, but it seems that a majority of peopledo want a leader. If it comes down to that, like I said, he shoulden't have much more power than the other members. Just some thing small, but distinguishable.

H47 ;-)


If there is going to be a leader, i'd have to agree with this. The more power, the more problems i think. The only way i see all or a majority of council members happy is if we let them vote on a leader (like with pope). Therefore, the chances are that the majority of people will like that leader. Bungie always have the final say, but if Bungie decide who is leader, problems will still arrise unless there are strict rules.

[Edited on 5/16/2005]

  • 05.16.2005 8:12 AM PDT

It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, not the lawyer, who has given us the right to a fair trial. And it is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves the flag, whose coffin is draped in the flag that allows the protester to burn the flag.Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC

You self proclaimed ELITES of bungie are very unfair and make rash assumptions. You feel you are better then the rest of the community wether you will admit it or not. The guy who is asking for an all elite council obviously feels threatend by the newer members. I think he does care about the council but fails to see the point of it.

I ask you to only be fair. You assume all this will happen. You know what they say. When you ASSUME you make an ass out of you and me.

Please just giive some of of "immature new people" a chance. This council is about groups. Well the lets talk about that. A group i am a mod of is the 4th largest on bungie. And wow i am new. Does that make me better? No. Does that make you worse? NO

Please just be fair. I dont mind if you older members have a majority, but lets be Fair.

NO DISRESPECT TO ANYONE HERE. Love you all

[Edited on 5/16/2005]

  • 05.16.2005 6:07 PM PDT

Posted by: Joe Halo Master
Now that I think about it some older members I havent seen in over a year.


Do I fall into that category?

I used to browse bungie.net regularly before I left a job that paid mediocre wages and provided almost unlimited internet access (the perks sometimes make the job worth doing).
I waited almost nine months to become an "official" member, and then started posting in the forums when I thought I had something to say. I tried not to fly off the handle at the less respectful and more obnoxious members who had to have their way with words here. I wasn't always successful. That didn't change the fact that I stuck around. It only changed my level of input. Often, when there is nothing nice to say it's best to say nothing at all.
I've always wanted to devote time to helping promote Bungie any way I can. Maybe this shows some lack of imagination on my part, but I was never sure exactly how to go about doing so.
I continued browsing the forums, contributing when I felt it appropriate, and I played Halo on Legendary, often regaling my coworkers with tales of Elites stuck by plasma grenades and warthog races through exploding spacecraft until their eyes rolled up into their heads and they staggered away mumbling.
I'd be honored to be selected as a member of a council to promote and support the 7th Column, but questions still remain:
What--in detail--would the council be responsible for?
What would be the time investment?
When does the council go into action?

  • 05.16.2005 8:22 PM PDT
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Posted by: EAGLES5
You self proclaimed ELITES of bungie are very unfair and make rash assumptions. You feel you are better then the rest of the community wether you will admit it or not. The guy who is asking for an all elite council obviously feels threatend by the newer members. I think he does care about the council but fails to see the point of it.

I ask you to only be fair. You assume all this will happen. You know what they say. When you ASSUME you make an ass out of you and me.

Please just giive some of of "immature new people" a chance. This council is about groups. Well the lets talk about that. A group i am a mod of is the 4th largest on bungie. And wow i am new. Does that make me better? No. Does that make you worse? NO

Please just be fair. I dont mind if you older members have a majority, but lets be Fair.

NO DISRESPECT TO ANYONE HERE. Love you all


1) let's be fair: true, but if it was up to me (and thank god it isn't :P ), i rather see a council with old members only. This may sound stupid and elitist and unfair. but that's what i think.
because it's like you said: be fair. Alot of old time members have been helping around for ages, and they're still no moderators or have a custom avatar and stuff like that. And i think they deserve to get something by now. Another reason why i rather see old time members is because the "old" members are people i know (most of them anyways), so i know i can trust them. But yes, there are also post-hotness members out there that i know, and i know that they can do the job just that good.

2. We shouldn't be having this discussion. i can assure you that the council will have both "old coolness" and "post hotness" members.

3. Should the council contain no post-hotness members at all, it's simply because that means that Bungie thinks that the older members will do a better job. Remember it's not about how long you are a member, but it's about doing the job.

many newer members said that it shouldn't matter how long you have been part of b.net, but that also works vica versa.

PS. if i sound like a total jerk, too bad, but we shouldn't be having this discussion

  • 05.17.2005 4:44 AM PDT
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ahuh sounds good to me aye.

  • 05.17.2005 5:48 AM PDT

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Posted by: EAGLES5
You self proclaimed ELITES of bungie are very unfair and make rash assumptions. You feel you are better then the rest of the community wether you will admit it or not. The guy who is asking for an all elite council obviously feels threatend by the newer members. I think he does care about the council but fails to see the point of it.

I ask you to only be fair. You assume all this will happen. You know what they say. When you ASSUME you make an ass out of you and me.

Please just giive some of of "immature new people" a chance. This council is about groups. Well the lets talk about that. A group i am a mod of is the 4th largest on bungie. And wow i am new. Does that make me better? No. Does that make you worse? NO

Please just be fair. I dont mind if you older members have a majority, but lets be Fair.

NO DISRESPECT TO ANYONE HERE. Love you all


Well absolutely. I But i'm pretty sure about 96% of people agree with this. well, at least i certainly hope they do.

But at JAF said, i think we should lay this issue to rest now.

[Edited on 5/17/2005]

  • 05.17.2005 7:58 AM PDT
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Do I fall into that category?

I used to browse bungie.net regularly before I left a job that paid mediocre wages and provided almost unlimited internet access (the perks sometimes make the job worth doing).
I waited almost nine months to become an "official" member, and then started posting in the forums when I thought I had something to say. I tried not to fly off the handle at the less respectful and more obnoxious members who had to have their way with words here. I wasn't always successful. That didn't change the fact that I stuck around. It only changed my level of input. Often, when there is nothing nice to say it's best to say nothing at all.
I've always wanted to devote time to helping promote Bungie any way I can. Maybe this shows some lack of imagination on my part, but I was never sure exactly how to go about doing so.
I continued browsing the forums, contributing when I felt it appropriate, and I played Halo on Legendary, often regaling my coworkers with tales of Elites stuck by plasma grenades and warthog races through exploding spacecraft until their eyes rolled up into their heads and they staggered away mumbling.
I'd be honored to be selected as a member of a council to promote and support the 7th Column, but questions still remain:
What--in detail--would the council be responsible for?
What would be the time investment?
When does the council go into action?


Well said frog. I especially like the last three questions. So when, exactly, are we going to hear anything from Bungie or the Mods about the Council?

  • 05.17.2005 8:08 AM PDT
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Posted by: PhreakShow
Well said frog. I especially like the last three questions. So when, exactly, are we going to hear anything from Bungie or the Mods about the Council?

I hope to get some replies from sketch and achronos Soon.

  • 05.17.2005 10:54 AM PDT
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Posted by: just another fan
Posted by: PhreakShow
Well said frog. I especially like the last three questions. So when, exactly, are we going to hear anything from Bungie or the Mods about the Council?

I hope to get some replies from sketch and achronos Soon.


Is it just me, or was it Goweb that was being contacted

  • 05.17.2005 11:02 AM PDT

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Posted by: Mr Propaganda
Posted by: just another fan
Posted by: PhreakShow
Well said frog. I especially like the last three questions. So when, exactly, are we going to hear anything from Bungie or the Mods about the Council?

I hope to get some replies from sketch and achronos Soon.


Is it just me, or was it Goweb that was being contacted


I did put a post in HE:EH to him about it. However, i guess i could PM him aswell.

  • 05.17.2005 11:40 AM PDT
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I am pretty sure PM's have been sent out to Achronos and the mods about this. They have not replied as far as I know though. They know the thread is here, and that it is alive. That is good enough. They know that we want to be heard, and they probably visit the thread daily. But they don't seem to be taking any steps to further it either.... *Sigh*

H47 ;-)

  • 05.18.2005 5:24 AM PDT
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Posted by: Mr Propaganda
I don't see a problem with 66 members. If you think about it, the council member/normal member ratio will be 66/20,000.* Compared to the total community, 66 is a relitively small number.


Not just a member ratio, but a member to group ratio. There are not as many groups compared to members.

  • 05.18.2005 5:46 AM PDT
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Yo Halo53, I'm real happy for you and I'ma let you finish, but Beyonce had one of the best bungie.net profiles of all time. OF ALL TIME!

Posted by: EAGLES5
Please just be fair. I dont mind if you older members have a majority, but lets be Fair.


I don't know if people have not been reading my posts, or just have not cared. Join date should have NO significance. I don't care if the council is made up of all new members or all old members, as long as those members are the best fit for the job. And I see a lot more new members saying the old members are being unfair/elitist than the number of old members actually being unfair and elitist. I don't know why this join date discussion has lasted so long.

  • 05.18.2005 1:27 PM PDT

Ach! Was ist los?

Posted by: VII Toast
Posted by: just another fan
I hope to get some replies from sketch and achronos Soon.


!

On a more serious note, all I can say is, "be patient."

  • 05.18.2005 1:28 PM PDT