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Subject: Night and Day Multiplayer options
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Hey people, hows it goin.

Does anyone else think it'd be an AMAZING idea if Bungie implemented a Night/Daytime option to each map? That would add CRAZY multiplayer replay value. Imagine being able to play Blood Gulch at night, where you can actually put the night vision from the sniper scope and the flashlights to good use. Not too dark, were you couldn't see your hand in front of your face without a flashlight (like Rare did with PD) but just dark enough were you'd be at a disadvantage without it (A moonlight would suffice). It would change the game completely.


The lighting effects would shine. Imagine getting into a firefight inside your base or a cave formation and your best chance to track your opponent would be the muzzle flashes from his assault rifle. Oh. My. God.


-Xplicit
(God I hope Bungie sees this)

  • 04.22.2004 8:44 PM PDT
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Or if they couldn't do that for some strange reason, they could make a level called Blackout, where it's extremely dark and you have to hunt around looking for enemies. Hopefully there will be nightvision or heat seeking goggles.

  • 04.22.2004 8:46 PM PDT
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Man, that's a pretty good idea. Bungie should implement that idea into multiplayer.

  • 04.22.2004 8:48 PM PDT
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that would be great. if you were playin blood gulch at night all u gonna see is like flaslights here and der. plus blasts of fire from a garnede explosion apperin in the distance. Now that would be wicked

  • 04.22.2004 8:52 PM PDT
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That would be really cool, but I have a feeling that maps will be only night or only day. Only time will tell though.

  • 04.22.2004 8:53 PM PDT
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sounds pretty cool but, the damn snipers would be out of control with there night vision!!!!

  • 04.22.2004 8:55 PM PDT
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I'm sold for thermal imaging, like that of Splinter Cell, only improved.

[Edited on 4/22/2004 8:58:54 PM]

  • 04.22.2004 8:57 PM PDT
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instead of a day/night option, have a adustable value to the lighting. the values would be a percent of the full light. such that the
100=noon
60's= late afternoon
50=sunset
40's= twilite
30s = varing moon phases
20's= bright stars
10's= dim stars
0= no light execpt from artifical things such as a flashlight

of core the bases would have to always have a light scorce. and if bungie makes the lighting effects good enugh, than those light scorces can be a disatanvage just like in real life.

  • 04.22.2004 9:05 PM PDT
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I brought this up quite a while ago at another forum I frequent and got nothing but a positive response! I sincerely hope Bungie does this, but I wouldn't love them any less if they didn't. Could you imagine coming over a hill in Blood Gulch and looking at one of the bases and all you see is flashes of light and dust coming from inside it? Suhweet!

  • 04.22.2004 9:08 PM PDT
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A night/day option for multiplayer would be fantastic. It would certainly add alot of replayability to multiplayer..

  • 04.22.2004 9:11 PM PDT
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The night vision and thermal imaging would make the game so cool in the night. As to the amount of light needed only a little darker than truth and reconciliation would be sufficient but as K_wizard said u should be able to ajust the light level to whatever u wish

  • 04.22.2004 9:11 PM PDT
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Posted by: Lifeless
sounds pretty cool but, the damn snipers would be out of control with there night vision!!!!


I'm not 100% sure if snipers would pose that much of a problem (though they'd still be a b****). Think about it, how much do you think they'd be able to see outside the view of the scope's night vision? And the further away the targets are, the more difficult they'd be to spot. The strategic factors of hiding from snipers would change completely. Snipers would probably be looking for the players using thier flashlights (and in order to limit the chances of being dropped on, would have to turn off their flashlights too), wich in turn, would cause other players to become more strategic about usnig their own flashlights!

And you could always just take out the rifle all together. :p Even if it did pose a balance issue, I'm sure Bungie would find a way to solve it.

And whenever you did bump into another player at close range, it would illicit an event akin to something straight out of the movie Aliens. The maps would be fourth of July simulators!

BTW, is there a "What would you like to see in Halo 2" thread around here somewhere? If so could someone post a link? I'd appreciate it.

-Xplicit
(I have big dreams)

[Edited on 4/22/2004 9:23:50 PM]

  • 04.22.2004 9:21 PM PDT
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Wow, topics sure do die fast on this board (3rd page already! ) . I just wanna make sure alot of people see this and I get to hear as much feedback as possible.


-Xplicit
( "Don't you go dyin' on me!")

[Edited on 4/23/2004 8:55:33 AM]

  • 04.23.2004 7:58 AM PDT
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Ok, I'll throw in my 2 cents, since I'm on a board-spamming spree. I have my doubts that there'll be a day/night cycle on maps, because that would be a lot of trouble. If I remember, I think I read somewhere where some of the shadow is just painted on instead of cast by a light source. Having an active light source casting shadows at all times would certainly be a not-completely-necessary strain on our Xbox's processor.
However, I am completely in favor of being able to choose the weather and time conditions of each outdoor map. Adding factors like rain, fog, snow, cloudy dawn lighting or midnight-darkness would add incredible replay value to each map. Adjusting intesnsity of the factors would almost be a must. After all, there's a big difference in a light drizzle and visor-blurring downpour.
On that note, visor effects should be thrown in with the weather.

  • 04.23.2004 8:21 AM PDT
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What if you walking around then u suddenly here a low rumble, a scorpion has rolled acroos you.
Invisibilty would be great at night too.

  • 04.23.2004 8:23 AM PDT
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Posted by: Scipio
Ok, I'll throw in my 2 cents, since I'm on a board-spamming spree. I have my doubts that there'll be a day/night cycle on maps, because that would be a lot of trouble. If I remember, I think I read somewhere where some of the shadow is just painted on instead of cast by a light source. Having an active light source casting shadows at all times would certainly be a not-completely-necessary strain on our Xbox's processor.
However, I am completely in favor of being able to choose the weather and time conditions of each outdoor map. Adding factors like rain, fog, snow, cloudy dawn lighting or midnight-darkness would add incredible replay value to each map. Adjusting intesnsity of the factors would almost be a must. After all, there's a big difference in a light drizzle and visor-blurring downpour.
On that note, visor effects should be thrown in with the weather.


Well, while I did guess it could possibly be a hearty strain on the Xbox, only Bungie knows exactly how much for sure (hope they see this thread). If they didn't custom build their engine to handle such a dynamic, then yes, it more than likely would be too strenuous for the system to handle (Hey, Perfect Dark on N64 did it).

Also, I don't know if I agree with people on the whole multiple visor idea, that would cross roads too closely with Metroid Prime for me-Halo has a very distincitive style wich would be perverted by the constant switching of thermal, night vision or "I can see your rocket ship underpants" visors. I like the idea of trying to improvise with the disadvantage/advantage of darkness. Adapt or die as they say. Besides, what would be the point if everyone had night vision to help them see? Might as well play during the day :P (unless you just like the idea of witnessing blazing firefights behind the illuminous tint of neon-green).

A weather changing idea definitely does seem a little too farfetched (though it could be quite cool). I can't see current generation systems being able to handle a 16 player deathmatch during a midnight downpour. Maybe Xbox 2. Besides rain though, I could'nt see any other weather effects being conducive to gameplay. Same goes for a "change of day settings" option. Besides night and day, I can't see how others would be constructive towards gameplay. Though I could imagine watching a player come over a hill with a sunset/sunrise behind him before aerating his brain with a sniper rifle would not only be hella cool, but would evoke some kind of serene euphoria.

-Xplicit
(Yeah........*sighs*)

  • 04.23.2004 8:53 AM PDT
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well most of the stuff I mentioned would just be nice to have non-essentials. Weather wouldn't necessarily be that hard I think. The game doesn't render each raindrop or anything, it just draws out the effect on your particular screen, so I don't think it will tax our Xbox's too heavily.
I think you may have misinterpreted what I meant, I apologize for not being more clear- I meant visor effects. As for visor effects, I really don't see what your beef with 'em is. Personally, I thought Metroid Prime was a great game, and its far from the only one with visor effects (SplinterCell: PT while playing merc. for example). I think the effects would only add to realism and even add the potential for new types of strategy (perhaps some kind of weapon that covers the visor or blinds opponents so you can casually seperate them from their brains while they shoot around wildly. As for what you brought up, I don't like the idea of having X-ray, thermal, nightvision, etc. vision all the time. I like the idea of certain weapons giving you that option, like the sniper rifle, but any-time night vision would just ruin the ResidentEvil factor in dark levels. So I agree with you there.

I don't know if changing weather is too terrible farfetched. I don't recall it being in an FPS, but I do know that you could alter weather and time of day in the game 'MidtownMadness' (that's a urban demolishion-derby style racing game that gets old kinda' fast). Dusk and dawn might not be necessary, but it may give one base or another a small advantage depending on its location (some are in shadow, while others are lit up) which could be used to handicap teams with better players for balance.

I think all the things mentioned wouldn't hinder gameplay in any particular way and would add massive replay value and change in tactics to levels.

  • 04.23.2004 9:13 AM PDT
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In a level played at night, most objects would shed light. You wouldn't be able to sneak up on people in a vehicle because of the headlights (which would suddenly become useful). and a person who knows a level really well would be able to skeak up on a base from the back in total darkness, grab the flag, and dissapear into the still of the night. Mosion Tracker would also become absolutely necessary for finding sneaks.
I'd love to see the lighting effects for plasma fire in a dark environment.
The only bad thing about darkness would be that any light of any kind, guns, grenades, vehicles, etc... would give away your position instantly.

  • 04.23.2004 9:28 AM PDT

WoG

"...have a killatalor!"
ROMANS 1:18

Dont know if this idea has been mentioned before. Dont care.

It's a GREAT idea. Hope it happens.

  • 04.23.2004 9:33 AM PDT
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I agree entirely Xennith. Change in lighting and/or weather can make Halo almost a different game. You also brought up a good point about motion tracking too. In daytime bloodgultch, MT is almost unnecessary and mostly gives base campers a heads up when there's anything around the base. Sneaking is possible with motion tracking on, but, as slow as you have to move, you're most likely going to be seen slowly crawling towards the enemy base before you have a chance to get in. In darkness, players could creep along like before or run around and stay more or less hidden.

  • 04.23.2004 9:42 AM PDT
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January 30, 2004 (Warthog's Day)
The Master Chief emerged from his code. After seeing his dynamically lit realtime shadow, he went back for 9 more months of development.


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Posted by: Pvt Mendoza
The night vision and thermal imaging would make the game so cool in the night. As to the amount of light needed only a little darker than truth and reconciliation would be sufficient but as K_wizard said u should be able to ajust the light level to whatever u wish


Theremal imaging would mostly be pointless. If you have read the books you know the Spartans armour shields them from thermal imaging. The only thing you could see would be the hot gun barrels and vehicles, which i guess would not be that bad. Also invisibility causes your suit to overheat so you could see invisible players too.

  • 04.23.2004 9:56 AM PDT
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well I've started a poll, so you guys ought to spout off there. I'm hoping Sketch or somebody will notice

  • 04.23.2004 10:08 AM PDT
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I think you have the best idea for it, but I don't think the 0 option would be good. No light and only flashlights wouldn't be realistic.

  • 04.23.2004 10:39 AM PDT
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Quotes by Scipio

" Weather wouldn't necessarily be that hard I think. The game doesn't render each raindrop or anything, it just draws out the effect on your particular screen, so I don't think it will tax our Xbox's too heavily."

I definitely disagree. With all the advanced things Bungie is doing with Halo 2 I'd be shocked if they can even get the game to run at 30 fps consistently now (Don't forget that even Halo 1 only ran at 30 fps). Rain/fog.....at night?! Unless Bungie had some amazing tricks up their sleeves, that would be ch-ch-ch-op-p-erific. And don't forget Halo 2 is online. There is no way current generational systems would be able to handle it.

"I meant visor effects. As for visor effects, I really don't see what your beef with 'em is. Personally, I thought Metroid Prime was a great game, and its far from the only one with visor effects (SplinterCell: PT while playing merc. for example)."

Who's got a problem with Metroid Prime? I own the game, and think it's one of the most amazing games to come out in the past decade (though honestly, I don't like it all that much, if that makes any sense to you). All I'm saying is, I don't feel multiple visors fits with Halo's overall style. Besides, it wouldn't make sense for Bungie to develop such a thing solely for the multiplayer game. It'd have to have some kind of prescence in single player too.

And I don't think the comparison to Splinter Cell is justified. The multiple visors are somewhat of a commodity for the Mercs who would otherwise, be severly handicapped without it. It fits the style of the game. Mind you I'm not trying to say you're are wrong for wanting such a thing in the game, just trying to get you to see what my side of the fence looks like.

My main point with the weather and different day settings is this: It would'nt make sense for Bungie to add any features that would'nt enhance the gameplay. Sure playing during a sunset would be nice, but how would that enhance/change the gameplay? What could you do during dawn, or dusk that you couldn't do in the middle of the afternoon? Seems like keeping it simple with just night or day would suffice to me. And when it comes to weather patterns, wich ones would be conducive outside of rain or fog ( If they could get the game to actually run it)? Sleet? Have the Chief take damage everytime a piece of hail lands on his noggin? Snow? Sans a blizzard (wich brings me back to my original point with framerate issues), it'd be nothing more than a pretty picture.

-Xplicit
( Meh. I say tomato, you say tamoto)




[Edited on 4/23/2004 11:04:10 AM]

  • 04.23.2004 11:01 AM PDT
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Synikal, again, I think you missed what I said so I'll try to make this perfectly clear

when I say visor effects, I mean having your vision obstructed if you get something on your visor like water or steam. I know there are other things that could generate a similar effect. I do not think that Halo2 should have "multiple visors" which would be having night vision and thermal vision at the push of a button.

That aside, I think you're wrong in your last point. Weather effects and changes in time WOULD change gameplay. Having to find enemies with a flashlight in the dead of night is much different than taking a quick look around and spot anybody who's moving immediately. Night gives more options for hiding and stealth that just aren't possible during the day. As for sunset and sunrise, those times would change positioning of shadows as well as make everything a little bit harder to see. Like in bloodgultch, there is a large part of blue base that is covered in shadow which is ideal to hide in and pop off a few shots with the pistol. There is also a similar area around red base, but it isn't quite so large or effective to use. Dawn and Dusk would alter where these shady spots are and call for changes in where people would have to go to hide out in ambush or where people had the best chance of sneaking around a base undetected.
Now as for weather, fog or rain would make a huge difference, just like night and day. If you can't see more than 20yds in front of your face, sniping will be almost useless and it'll seem like opponents will be coming out of thin air and vice versa. Imagine walking across bloodgultch in a heavy fog when you stumble across two opposing reds coming towards your base. Seeming to appear from nowhere, there is about a half second of confusion before both of you start unloading your magazines. A nearby red with a pistol hears the shooting off to his left *I guess he has surround sound* so he fires off a couple shots at what he makes out as the muzzle flare from your weapons. The red with the pistol shoots at the wrong muzzle flare and ends up killing one of your attackers on accident. Whammo you kill the other and escape from the one with the pistol in the fog. Tell me how that's the same as running and gunning in broad daylight? Also, rain would decrease visibility and raindrops on your visor would very slightly obstruct your vision. In that scenario, snipers would have a hard time seeing their targets which could be mistaken for rain drops in the long distance. Conversely, players would have a difficult time seeing snipers hiding in their little roosts. Also, bungie could go the extra 9 yards (but I know they won't so I guess this is a moot point) and change the environment when it rains. Pools of water could develop in sunken parts of terrain and Spartans could crouch down in them to hide from unfriendly eyes in a pinch. On top of that, dirt could beome muddied and slow down vehicles or even the chief. Heck, step it up a notch and warthogs could get stuck in particularly muddy areas and require getting grenaded or smacked out of the quagmire. Now tell me how that's the same as driving around unhindered and being able to spot snipers and their targets without trouble?

Weather and time options would be the shiz.

  • 04.23.2004 11:23 AM PDT

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