Bungie Universe
This topic has moved here: Subject: Night and Day Multiplayer options
  • Subject: Night and Day Multiplayer options
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • of 2
Subject: Night and Day Multiplayer options
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Not realistic to what? On Earth true. If it was night and there was no moon, the stars would give a next to nothing lighting effect. But true, I think also that the 0 light would be a little stupid.

On the debate of the weather, I reckon that xbox could handle it and I don't think that it'll be too hard. On 343 Guilty Spark, at the end it is foggy. Often on SC it is rainy, and on Morowind it has all of the weathers. From rain to heavy snow. Also it changes from day to night, from sun to rain almost instantly and all without having to load anything.

  • 04.23.2004 11:24 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Thats the best idear i have hard in this forum so far.

  • 04.23.2004 11:31 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Quotes by Scipio

"Synikal, again, I think you missed what I said so I'll try to make this perfectly clear"

After reading it again, I realize I didn't read between the llines too well. That's my bad and I can see clearly what you mean now.

"Weather effects and changes in time WOULD change gameplay."

......And it seems like you're misinterpreting me as well. Who said weather effects wouldn't change gamplay? My only argument was only a few types of precipitation (fog, rain, maybe blizzard) would be effective enough to evoke any type of change in gameplay and even then, the Xbox doesn't have the horsepower to do it with a steady framerate.

In that long paragraph you talk about how different gameplay would be in contrast to night and day. I came up with the idea, so why in the Backstreet Boys are you trying to convince me of this?

"As for sunset and sunrise, those times would change positioning of shadows as well as make everything a little bit harder to see."

Ok, we need a reality check here. NO console (or really many PC games i.e. Doom 3) game has a lighting engine that advanced. While Halo 2 has a very advanced lighting engine, the sun won't be casting a dynamic shadow off every object in the game (some WILL be static like in Halo).

It really seems like you reached out on a limb to find that example. Even if Halo 2 did have such dynamic lighting, the differences in a dawn/dusk setting would be so subtle it's barely worth mentioning .

As for the fog and rain examples: Again, who's disagreeing with you?

Comrad:

The examples you gave don't help your point at all. Morrowind is a SINGLE PLAYER RPG (and that game has framerate issues, I've seen it. The world is HUGE). We're talking about a 16 player multiplayer game-that's already utilizing pretty much every ounce of juice the Xbox has to offer-that needs to be playable over the internet. People seem to forget that Halo only ran at 30 fps for a reason, and Bungie has gone on record saying they are shooting for the same with Halo 2.

Yeah there was fog in the single player mode of Halo, so what? Show me fog in a multiplayer stage in Halo then you'll have a point.

-Xplicit
(You kids got some imagination)








[Edited on 4/23/2004 12:27:34 PM]

  • 04.23.2004 12:19 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: SynikaL

My only argument was only a few types of precipitation (fog, rain, maybe blizzard) would be effective enough to evoke any type of change in gameplay and even then, the Xbox doesn't have the horsepower to do it with a steady framerate.

Ok, well here you may be right. Having little knowlege of programming and whatnot, I don't know how taxing rain and fog can be on a gamesystem. If you're right, then I agree that weather should be out, but if its possible then I'd like that extra variety.

In that long paragraph you talk about how different gameplay would be in contrast to night and day. I came up with the idea, so why in the Backstreet Boys are you trying to convince me of this?
Oops, sorry. Heh heh, I guess I just feel like arguing right now. I wondered the same thing myself for a moment, but that was after I posted

Ok, we need a reality check here. NO console (or really many PC games i.e. Doom 3) game has a lighting engine that advanced. While Halo 2 has a very advanced lighting engine, the sun won't be casting a dynamic shadow off every object in the game (some WILL be static like in Halo).
I don't think many games at all use real time lighting for cast shadows and such, but I seem to remember that in Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time there was real time change of day and cast shadows from trees, link and such all lengthened and shortened accordingly. That was on the Nintendo64. I don't see how an Xbox would be incapable of using real castshadows in a level

It really seems like you reached out on a limb to find that example. Even if Halo 2 did have such dynamic lighting, the differences in a dawn/dusk setting would be so subtle it's barely worth mentioning .
Ok, I'll give on this one. While it could change hiding spots and such it wouldn't be nearly as significant as a noon-midnight difference. So I suppose Halo2 could do without it (although it would be nice to have anyway)

As for the fog and rain examples: Again, who's disagreeing with you?
umm. . . I guess nobody. I'll shut up about that I guess.

Yeah there was fog in the single player mode of Halo, so what? Show me fog in a multiplayer stage in Halo then you'll have a point.
Play the level damnation. Around the overshield by the waterfalls and bottomless pit, there is fog near the bottom so you can't actually see the floor underneath it all. Also, there is slight fog on the floors of chillout (or I'm pretty sure anyway). Fog doesn't have to be like clouds, but there has been fog in almost every 3d game I can remember. Fog is used to keep the console from having to render too much in the distance to keep framerate smooth. Now, for MP fog that I'm talking about, all that would have to be done is reduce the distance a player can see to +/- 10m or something. If nothing else, the game would run faster because there would be so much less to render.

  • 04.23.2004 12:42 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

It would be cool if they had a variable you could se before you start a game that allowed you to set things like a gradual change between dalight and night, or clear weather, rain, or een snow.
Hmmm... snowy blood gulch...
The possibilities would be endless with weather effects!

  • 04.23.2004 1:19 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

my point exactly, Xennith

  • 04.23.2004 1:23 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

If were talking extremely low light conditions, a flash grenade would be a good addition because: A. it has a good point of scaring the bejeezus out of whomever you throw it at, and B. It has the counter of letting everyone know where you are.

Also, motion trackers would be important to keep on unless you want to freak out every 30 seconds.



  • 04.23.2004 1:47 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

I say motion trackers in multiplayer should be eliminated. It would take away the fun from playing in the Dark. For weather I don't really care if rain and snow is included as long as Halo 2 has the Night\Day option and fog I'll be A-O-TAY.

  • 04.23.2004 1:59 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

I know that's why i said it. Most of us do want to be startled. As loyal bungie fans, we are obviously adredeline junkies.



  • 04.23.2004 2:06 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

You guys are right this would be great and with the weather elements that bungie is putting in the game normally it would be great if that was an option in mp.... and it would also be cool if they had a time effect.... you know how long some of those maps take to play and they just go on and on... so you would be able to watch the sun rise and set and the stars come out... and the weather change form foggy to rainy and dry as a bone... that would be awsome.... I hope it happens...

  • 04.23.2004 2:11 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

well as far as motion tracking goes, I think there's no problem with the set up they have now- make it optional. If you want to have to see through the dark without any clue where the enemy might be, then by all means proceed. The way I see it, the more features the better as long as you have the option to keep them on or off.

  • 04.23.2004 2:12 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

I think the sun will be casting a shadow , becaus how else would they have shadows on things that can be blown up or changed by a rocket. ex.( this is happening outside in the sun) u shoot a rocket at a a big pillar, or column and the top of it gets blown off the shadow will be cut off to match the new shape of the object. i remember somone saying that that would be what they could do now.( i also read this somwere) the only reason they didnt do that for halo 1 is becaus when shot somtin like a boulder and a chunk flew off the full shadow was still their. thats why they didnt have it in the first game

  • 04.23.2004 2:13 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Night options are not quite as unlikely as some people have stated. Halo 2 has two types of lighting in the same manner of Splinter Cell. Most of the time a light map is used, which is pre-rendered. Some lights like the Master Chief's headlight are real time rendered.

All our wonderful developers need to do is create a new light map, one which suits a night time environs. Our level designer just needs to make a few changes and spend a few hours in their three heavy duty rendering computers and Voila, night version of the same map. You'd just have to load them as completely seperate maps. Easy stuff.

  • 04.23.2004 2:21 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

It's not as easy as you seem to think, rendering the level of graphics on something as huge (data wise) as a HALO map is no small task. Plus they would have to compute a variable for how certain objects interact with darkness as opposed to the usual daytime maps.
Different objects would have different lighting effects at night than they do during the daytime.

  • 04.23.2004 2:43 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: Scipio
...Having an active light source casting shadows at all times would certainly be a not-completely-necessary strain on our Xbox's processor...


Halo already has dynamic lighting (objects create shadows), so why would it be any more of a burden??

  • 04.23.2004 3:59 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

I think it'd be beast if they have these options:

1. Night
2. Day
3. Transaction between night in day:
a) Set time it takes to switch between night and day) 1 minute to 50 minutes

but yes, it's a good idea....

[Edited on 4/23/2004 4:24:29 PM]

  • 04.23.2004 4:23 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

sorry if this has been said already....ive only read a few posts..at random..but since in halo 2 youll be able to shoot out lights....i think well have a little bit of in the dark MP action...think about it ...your in the streets of New mombasa city..(somthing like that) and its night...the street lights are on....bam! bam!..no street lights..if oyu ask me..that would just be kik ass

  • 04.23.2004 4:28 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

that would be really awesome but on outside levels like blood gulch the snipers would be crazy....i still like it though

  • 04.23.2004 4:28 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: Comrad
Often on SC it is rainy


are you talking about silent cartographer....or soul caliber...(only other sc game i can think of)

  • 04.23.2004 4:49 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

SC could also be Splinter Cell

  • 04.23.2004 5:22 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Yes, the night and day aspect of your post would be awesome. But I don't think that they nightvision at least for me would go well. I am used to those kind of shooters that are tactical, this is a run and gun, we don't need no -blam!- night vision googles, but it would be good to implement them on the scoped wepons. But not just when you have an AR.

  • 04.23.2004 5:27 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: General Fox
SC could also be Splinter Cell


i dindnt think of that...is that what he was saying though....

  • 04.23.2004 6:18 PM PDT
Subject:
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

The idea of day and night would be a very fun option, aside from some balance issues, and I'm sure this would make for some very interesting LAN parties. :-D

  • 04.23.2004 6:41 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

In response to the person that said doing light maps for darkness areas are difficult... You just have to look at Frankie's updates. He pointed out that the Bungie development team go hold of three powerful computers for rendering. They can generate a new light map in a few hours. When they were making the original Halo it took days to generate a single light map.

It's been done before. Take for example Rat Race. You have a lot of darkness there and static lighting. This is all pre-rendered. The Dynamic lighting on your helmets works just fine.

Now,I don't know how the dynamic lighting works I could imagine it works much in the way that a bullet hole appears on a wall. You aim your light at the wall and instead of making a black hole appear on the wall it lightens the area and increases the contrast.

Now what I think would be cool would be giant flashlights on the turret weapons so that you could sweep the area around your base much like you see in World War 2 prison films.

  • 04.23.2004 7:36 PM PDT
Subject: Night and Day Multiplayer options

4Base Avalanch MELTDOWN
battle is only a prayer.....
.......Better Start PRAYING!!!!!!!
Chapter Founders Bungie's Group Support
Mob of Angry Peasants

Mabey a time clock on the host xbox can determine the night/day for the outdoor levles.

  • 04.24.2004 8:56 AM PDT

  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • of 2