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This topic has moved here: Subject: Has the Chief been on Halo before?
  • Subject: Has the Chief been on Halo before?
Subject: Has the Chief been on Halo before?
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Think about it, 343 seems to know Master Chief. Here's the thinking...

1- He mentions that the Chiefs armour isn't suitable to combat The Flood, and even seems to know exactly what the armour is because he comments on its effectiveness. How would he know this unless he knew the Chief?

2- He calls Master Chief "reclaimer", which means Halo has previously been claimed - by who I have no idea.

Also, don't you find it quite strange that Cortana's chip set fits straight into Halo's technology, as if it were designed to take it. It'd be a viable link between the Forerunner and Humans.

The 3 books also make some interesting readings, though its too indepth to go into without reading them again.

  • 04.23.2004 11:05 AM PDT
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I doubt if it's chief specificly...But maybe another Spartan.

Or he could have jsut scanned him. :p

  • 04.23.2004 11:13 AM PDT
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I won't go into too much detail but the thoery is that the Halo rings are worlds sent back by Humans in the future to help them now. Thus it would make sense that he hasn't been there before but 343 knows about the Mjolnir armour from the past. This would also exaplian him knowing all the symbols on the control panels on halo.

  • 04.23.2004 11:33 AM PDT
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with cortana, she actually hacks into the forrunner panel.... adn yes, it has been discussed exhaustingly over at halo.bungie.org whether the masterchief has been on Halo before, but most agree that it is just because the mc looks like the reclaimer. (mabye hinting at forruner relations BUT I WONT START THAT)

  • 04.23.2004 11:34 AM PDT
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I think it is possible with time travel, but I have my doubt that the chief, himself, went to installation 04 before the game.

  • 04.23.2004 11:36 AM PDT
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It could be that 343 is a little bit mad. I doubt humans in the future would have created the halos and sent them back because, wouldnt 343 be programmed to follow human orders and protect humans, but instead he goes a bit mad and tries to utilise halos weapon killing everyone is a very very large area. Also why would the humans of the future send back halo if they knew the flood was on it.

  • 04.23.2004 11:44 AM PDT
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Probably because thats the only option to destroy the flood compleatly, there have already been hints of the flood returning in Halo 2.

  • 04.23.2004 11:45 AM PDT

-S

There's also this dialogue between the Chief, 343, and Cortana at the beginning of Two Betrayels:

343 GUILTY SPARK: Why would you hesitate to do what you have already done?

CORTANA: We need to go, right now.

343 GUILTY SPARK: Last time, you asked me, if it was my choice, would I do it? Having considerable time to ponder your query, my answer has not changed.

It seems as though the Chief has been there before, doesn't it? However, I don't think that doesn't explain why the Chief doesn't remember any of this, even though he vaguely recalls things he shouldn't. It can't be that he traveled back in time after the events of the first game (shudder) because he wouldn't remember anything about it now.

There's a small theory out there that I'm particularly fond of. What if 343 isn't speaking to the Chief, so much as to the armor? 343 sees that armor and immediately thinks "Ah, forerunner." Perhaps the Forerunner were a race of cyborgs? That'd almost be a tie-in to Marathon.

  • 04.23.2004 11:47 AM PDT
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One things for sure - If it's anything to do with time travel then I'll be damn annoyed!

  • 04.23.2004 12:10 PM PDT
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its the armour!
and thanks for bringing that to my attention moderator!

humans must have become the forerunner....its the armour.....a lower grade of the forerunners....

  • 04.23.2004 12:24 PM PDT
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Guilty Spark says in the Library:

These Sentinels will supplement your combat system. But, I suggest you upgrade to at least a Class Twelve combat skin. Your current model only scans as a Class Two, which is ill suited for this kind of work.

And also:

Puzzling. You brought such ineffective weapons to combat the Flood, despite the containment protocols.

And in The Maw:

You can't imagine how exciting this is! To have a record of all of our lost time! Human history, is it? Fascinating.

Also:

Your behavior is not in accordance with established protocols.

These quotes cleary point in the direction that 343 GS at least thinks that he knows the MC, and that the MC should already know what he is supposed to be doing. I think that this is very good evidence for a Human-Forerunner connection. But rather than humans becoming the Forerunner, I think that the Forerunners become humans. Someone else had the quote that said:

Last time, you asked me, if it was my choice, would I do it? Having considerable time to ponder your query, my answer has not changed.

This is proof that the Halos were fired before. In Halo: The Flood GS syas that he's been in charge for exactly "101,217 local years"(pg. 238). If we assume that Forerunners were organic, which would make sense if they needed to wear combat skins, then they would also be killed by the firing of Halo's primary weapon. So we can assume that Halo was fired about 101,217 yrs ago to contain a Flood outbreak, as 343 GS's previous's quote would indicate. If I were the Forerunners, I would have a backup plan if worse came to worse and the Halos were fired. Seeding a planet with lifeforms that should develop sentience would be a good idea. And human civilization on Earth didn't begin until around 100,00 yrs ago. Also, Halo has earth normal gravity, and the same kind of atmosphere, even the same nitrogen-oxygen mix ratio. That would make earth a very good canidate for seeding. However, the fact that the Cheif's armor is so similar to a Forerunner Battle skin, and that the MC has an innate knowledge of Forerunner tech:

The display's shimmering geometric patterns nagged at him, as if he should recognize them somehow... he couldn't place where he'd seen them before. They just seemed...familiar. (Halo: The Flood, pg 84)

shows that there is more than just a genetic descendance from the Forerunners. Perhaps humanity is imbued with some sort of genetic memory from the Forerunners. Well, that's enough rambling for now!


[Edited on 4/23/2004 3:29:08 PM]

  • 04.23.2004 12:56 PM PDT
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There is no proof of Human-Forerunner connection in that whole speech, but there could be a Spartan-Forerunner connection. I think 343 GS was either talking about the armor or he's got the wrong guy because I doubt the Chief was there before or else he would have known what Halo's Defence Mechanism was instead of having Cortana tell him. Now that I think of it, I think that the Forerunners were evolved from the Spartans, thats something to think about.

  • 04.23.2004 1:10 PM PDT
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Agreed. I also remember something about Covenant and Human AI being very similar, which would mean that they use the same technology. Since the Covenant use Forerunner technology, then that's another clear link.

The book also states that the Covenant dont understand the technology they are using (for example the way Cortana improves the space jump in the Covenant ships engines). This would mean that the Covenant are essentially being out evolved by the humans. I would refer to the books, but I've given them to a friend to read.

My theory is that the Covenant Elders are scared and are using their power and influence to force the Covenant into wiping out humanity before they are out-evolved. Or maybe, the religon that they follow states that humanity must be wiped out. If their gods are Forerunner, then the war and the religon could be something like a fail safe incase the humans ever did something bad, like the Spartan Project. It'd be good forward planning for the Forerunner, but only if they started humanity.

Oh and I know that this topic is old hat, but I didn't use the forums until Bungie was relaunched, and I'm sure many are the same as me.

  • 04.23.2004 1:20 PM PDT
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Thanks for pointing out the flaws in my theory. And with that I should be able to fill in at least one hole in it, that I hope will prove the Human-Forerunner connection:

As he proceeded deeper into the Library, he found a corpse---a human one. He stooped to examine the body.
It wasn't pretty. The Marine's body was so mangled that even the Flood couldn't make any use of him. He lay at the center of a large bloodstain wreathed by spent brass.
"Ah," 343 Guilty Spark said, peering down over the Spartan's shoulder. "The other Reclaimer. His combat skin proved even less suitable than yours."
The soldier looked up over his shoulder. "What do you mean?"
"Is this a test, Reclaimer?" the Monitor seemed genuinely puzzled. "I found him wandering through a structure on the other side of the ring, and brought him to the same point where you started."
The Chief looked down at the body and marveled at the fact that anyone could make it that far. Even with his physical augmenatation, and the advantages of his armor, the Spartan was reaching the end of his endurance.
He checked the leatherneck's dog tags, and read the name. MOBUTO, MARVIN, STAFF SERGEANT, followed by a service number.
The Chief put the tags away. "I didn't know you, Sarge, but I sure as hell wish I had. You must have been one hard-core son of a -blam!-." (Halo: The Flood, pg 244-245)

This shows that the MC isn't that special in being chosen for Reclaimer duty, and that his armor can't be the only thing that 343 GS identifies. The only logical explanation I can come up with for the fact that Mobuto was also used as a Reclaimer, while no Covenant were even though they're far more prevelent on Halo, is that 343 GS recognizes humanity as being Forerunner, not just the equipment. But this is also very much so open to argument, so give me your opinion on the matter.

  • 04.23.2004 2:54 PM PDT
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Guilty Spak says in the Library:

These Sentinels will supplement your combat system. But, I suggest you upgrade to at least a Class Twelve combat skin. Your current model only scans as a Class Two, which is ill suited for this kind of work.

And also:

Puzzling. You brought such ineffective weapons to combat the Flood, despite the containment protocols
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Do you think the halo rings where sort of like challenges? That you would go there to fight the flood and set of halo. Its an idea.

  • 04.23.2004 3:23 PM PDT
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if you read the book Halo:the flood then you will see that master chief seams to know the forrunner technologies like the control pannels. The only logical answer is:
THE EARTH AS BEN IN CONTACT WITH THE FORRUNERS AND THE WANTED TO DESTROY THEM SSSSOOOOOOO THEy BUILT SUPER HUMAN WITH THE KNOLEDGE OF THE FORRUNNERS IN THEY'R CEREBRAL CHIPS!!
lol :P

[Edited on 4/23/2004 4:17:30 PM]

  • 04.23.2004 4:12 PM PDT
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What messed up that marine so bad that even the flood dont want him?Maybe he had tryed to put on the MJLONR (sp?) ARMOR and it messed him up badly. Why are they called the FORERUNNER, Maybe they can travel in time ahead of time, see the future beFORE stuff happens so if they would know to RUN,the RUNNER.

Has anyone ever see Big O? :D how everyone has lost memory of there past time but only few people can remember some stuff. Maybe its like that the memory of the past has been removed, but they still have a sence of stuff that happened like when the MC knows what buttons to push on forerunner holograms.

You know this black barricade things that are in the POA? They are human items but in Halo PC when editing it they are called forerunner items. .....

  • 04.23.2004 4:27 PM PDT
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I agree with GolanX4 on this one. But i think the reason GSG takes SPARTAN's as Reclaimers is that he indentifies with them mentally. He recongizes the mental pattern of the Forerunners in certain SPARTAN's, along with other visual similarities. Therefore proving that he chooses them over Convenant and further relating Humans to Forerunners. Also proving why they get so far as oppose to other people and/or Convenant...cause they are suppose too.

A possible idea is that the Forerunners had someone [a army or elite group] to do this kind of work and called them "Reclaimers". Highly trained soliders in this armor to be used for highly dangerous missions and/or assignments. The Reclaimers assignments were probably to reclaim Halo if it were ever taken over by these "Flood" or to reclaim their planets by firing Halo's weapons and wiping out the Flood but only as a last hope and option.
Who knows the Flood might have even been put on Halo purposely as a defense from someone else trying to use their weapons against them.

Also if the Convenat were around when the Forerunners were they[Forerunners] didn't see them as worthy are suitable to hold thier technology which would explain why the Convenat have little understanding about the technology they are using.

Well those are my ideas anyway. Peace DIRVANCE

  • 04.23.2004 5:03 PM PDT