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Subject: Novel Inconsistencies Concerning Weapons Yield Calcs
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I've done calculations for the Covenants plasma yields based on the info given in The Fall of Reach (namely pg 8):

Three dozen Covenant ships - big ones, destroyers and cruisers - winked into view in the system. They were sleak, looking more like sharks than starcraft. Their lateral lines brightened with plasma - then discharged and rained fire down on Jericho VII.
The Chief watched for an hour and didn't move a muscle.
The planets lakes, rivers, and oceans vaporised. By tommorow, the atmosphere would boil away, too. Fields and forests were glassy smooth and glowing red-hot in places.
Where there had once been a paradise, only hell remained.


Assuming Jericho is an Earth-like planet - which it has to be to sustain human life without terraforming - it would take 6.4e26 joules to completely vaporize Jerichos oceans, lakes and rivers in an hour. This is based on the fact that it takes roughly 458 joules to boil 1 gram of water and the Earth has roughly 1.4e21 kilograms of water. At this rate, we have a total yield of 42,532 gigatons per second. Divide that by 36 ships, that's 1.2 teratons per second. Quite impressive!

However, there is an inconsistency in the quote from The Fall of Reach (listed above). It is this:

An Earth-like planets atmosphere has a mass of 5e18 kg. For the atmosphere to "boil away" as is suggested in The Fall of Reach, the mass of the atmosphere must achieve a minimum escape velocity (which for an earthlike planet is around 11-12 km/s), resulting in between 6e26 and 7e26 joules, minimum - higher speeds result in correspondingly greater energies. The inconsistency is that the atmosphere of Jericho should have been boiling away during the apparent hour of bombardment, in fact the atmosphere should have been completely gone in that hour instead of "boiling away" the next day, as is stated on pg 8.

How could this inconsistency be explained?

There is also an inconsistency in the fact that the Covenant use fusion...tritium plasma, I believe. I don't know the exact numbers on this but will come up with them later.

There is another inconsistency (or more of a nonsensical statement) on pg 283 of The Fall of Reach:

There were twenty SuperMAC guns in orbit. They could accelerate a three-thousand -ton projectile to point four-tenths the speed of light and place that projectile with pinpoint accuracy...

"Point four-tenths the speed of light?" This makes no sense at all. I've tried emailing HBO so that this could be verified as an inconsistency but to no avail...

I have been stifled in my attempts to calculate the yield of Halo weapons by these inconsistancies and I'm wondering if there is anyone who knows more about physics than I that can explain these problems.

[Edited on 7/12/2004 6:32:13 AM]

  • 07.12.2004 2:42 AM PDT
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12x3=36; not 32. If you got that wrong, then you should check the rest of your math.

  • 07.12.2004 5:05 AM PDT
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Wow, that's more thinking than I care to do over summer break...

  • 07.12.2004 5:42 AM PDT
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hehehe - very nice. now thats some nice work there.............other than the '3 dozen - 32' bit.

But all is forgiven.

you make an interesting point about the plasma and its potential volatility.

One of my big problems, and I am sure you can figure this one out as you seem adept, is that the power of the mjolnir shields to withstand with temperates generated by the plasma projectile weapons.

I mean that - the temperature of plasma is at the very least in the order of 5,000 degrees celcius.

and NO, if anyone says that it is ultra-cold plasma, its not, read the books - thats all I am going to say if anyone says its cold plasma.

I dont beleive that the suits shields could withstand such immense heat, even though it desperses force or inertia well enough.

As for 'four-tenths the speed of light" regarding the super-mac weapons. Ever thought of it as " four-tenths of 300,000 km/s". I know thats a rough approximation of the speed of light, but hey, I couldn't be bothered with the semantics of it.

[Edited on 7/12/2004 6:12:23 AM]

  • 07.12.2004 6:11 AM PDT
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Posted by: Dom0429
12x3=36; not 32. If you got that wrong, then you should check the rest of your math.

Simple typo - the math was still correct. It's amended.

  • 07.12.2004 6:33 AM PDT
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no worries man, I wasn't having a go or anything. : )

do you know anything about high-temperature plasma that could help with my querie?

  • 07.12.2004 6:36 AM PDT
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There were twenty SuperMAC guns in orbit. They could accelerate a three-thousand -ton projectile to point four-tenths the speed of light and place that projectile with pinpoint accuracy... as in to a point at 4/10 the speed of light, just a grammar error on the authors part

  • 07.12.2004 6:45 AM PDT
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man, i can't believe you actually went through that. thanx for doing it for those of us who are too lazy.

  • 07.12.2004 6:54 AM PDT
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Going by the freefall the Spartans did in 'First Strike', Freds shields drained when he had hit a tree trunk at 130 m/s. The total KE would be 8.45e6 joules - which is equal to the total energy released from 2 kilos of TNT.

I don't have enough info on Spartans shields and Covenant plasma to compare between the two though. Or I might be missing something somewhere.

The 'Sybex Halo Strategy Guide' lists supposed power outputs for Covenant small arms though they are extremely low. So low, in fact, that according to the strategy guide, a plasma pistol round wouldn't even be able to boil a glass of water...

[Edited on 7/12/2004 7:14:09 AM]

  • 07.12.2004 6:59 AM PDT
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lol. no....roflmfao. that's pretty dam* funny.

  • 07.12.2004 7:02 AM PDT
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Posted by: alexbondrocks
There were twenty SuperMAC guns in orbit. They could accelerate a three-thousand -ton projectile to point four-tenths the speed of light and place that projectile with pinpoint accuracy... as in to a point at 4/10 the speed of light, just a grammar error on the authors part


I've always thought it was a simple error as well since a velocity of .4c seems to fit better with the Covenant yields as a 3000 ton projectile with a velocity of .4c has a yield of 11TT - which seems to fit with the Covenants Jericho glassing calcs since it takes more than 2 of the Covenants plasma torps to disable a Covenant destroyer (based on the Commonwealths battle with a Covenant destroyer). Of course if it's .04c, this gives in a 100GT yield which doesn't fit with Jerichos yield estimates at all.


Edit - actually that was the Iroquois that battled the Covy destroyer.

[Edited on 7/12/2004 7:11:26 AM]

  • 07.12.2004 7:09 AM PDT
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johnconstantine - how f)cken good are you?!!?!!?!

that was amazing dude!!!

hmm.........I think I am going to throw a few more of these at you.

how powerful would the masterchiers punch ACTUALLY be? I mean, you can hit a marine in the chest and he lives, yet in the books the master chief is draining elite shields, and smashing covie armour with backfists and straight jabs.

I have no idea how to measure the power of a persons punch mathematically, but remember, that it doesn't actually matter how much mass you have ( it contributes greatly on impact if you are able to push back through the ground with you feet, thereby allowing all the weight of your body and the speed of you arm to drill through the target with a supported base) but as the chief weights close to half a ton, I am sure he could f(ck -blam!- up in a major way.

how about that one?

you could open up a wicked post with heaps of halo real-life physics, I would visit everyday.

; )

  • 07.12.2004 7:14 AM PDT
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Posted by: The MasterChief8
johnconstantine - how f)cken good are you?!!?!!?!

that was amazing dude!!!

hmm.........I think I am going to throw a few more of these at you.

how powerful would the masterchiers punch ACTUALLY be? I mean, you can hit a marine in the chest and he lives, yet in the books the master chief is draining elite shields, and smashing covie armour with backfists and straight jabs.

I have no idea how to measure the power of a persons punch mathematically, but remember, that it doesn't actually matter how much mass you have ( it contributes greatly on impact if you are able to push back through the ground with you feet, thereby allowing all the weight of your body and the speed of you arm to drill through the target with a supported base) but as the chief weights close to half a ton, I am sure he could f(ck -blam!- up in a major way.

how about that one?

Hmmmm...that would take some time. Also, I should say, I'm not all that great at physics - there are alot of people much better than I am.

Though if you remember, MC was able to kill at least 2 out of three ODSTs with only three strikes - all while unarmored.

you could open up a wicked post with heaps of halo real-life physics, I would visit everyday.

; )

Well, here's another calculation. It's a very loose calculation though (I've actually got alot of loose calculations - though some of them are arguable). The frag grenade in Halo is equal to at least 1lb of TNT. Actually, I messed up that whole calculation but if you want something really interesting...here:

Spartans Armor

Black Body Suits

* Black, formfitting, lightweight polymer body armor.
* Worn before the Spartans began wearing MJOLNIR armor.
* Worn underneath MJOLNIR armor.
* Capable of deflecting small-caliber rounds.
* Refrigeration/heating units that are able to mask infrared signatures.
* Integrated helmet with encryption and communication gear, heads-up display, thermal and motion detectors.
* Sealed tight with a fifteen minute oxygen reserve for the survival in the vacuum of space.

MJOLNIR Mark I Armor

* Used in the training of the Spartans when they were 14, trainers donned this armor for their own protection against the Spartans and to thoroughly challenge the Spartans.
* Currently used mainly as dock loaders.
* Impervious to standard light weapons.
* Has a speed of 32kph (20mph).
* Can lift two tons.
* Equipped with motion sensors and infrared scopes.
* Armed with 30mm mini-guns on self-targeting armatures and stun rods.

It would take two or three platoons of standard marines to take that bunker. (The Fall of Reach, pg 71) - Chief Mendez on the Spartans ability to ‘capture the flag’ from 9 trainers in MJOLNER Mark I armor.

MJOLNIR Mark III Armor

* Armors shell is a multilayer alloy of remarkable strength with a refractive coating to disperse incoming energy weapon attacks.
* Powered with a miniature fusion cell.
* Armors inner structure is composed of an amorphous, reactive metal liquid crystal which fractally scales and amplifies force; this doubles the Spartans strength and enhances the Spartans reaction speed by a factor of five.
* Has a gel-filled layer (hydrostatic gel) to regulate temperature. Hydrostatic gel can also reactively change it’s density to protect it’s user from heavy landings, gee-forces and such. It can also absorb moisture and has bio-monitors that constantly adjusts the suits temperature and fit.
* Has an on-board computer that interfaces with each Spartans neural implant which is used in conjunction towards the wearers use of the armor in such that the speed of the armors movement is carried out not only by the motion of its user but his very thought process. The subject has only to think about the armor moving and it will move. This same process is carried out with communication channels, heads-up display, and any other uses of the armor.
* This, and successive, MJOLNIR armor is not usable to normal humans due to the strength and speed with which the armor performs. Previous test subjects have broken multiple bones due to the stress caused from the armors performance.

John focused his mind on motion. He leaped over a three meter high wall. He punched at concrete targets - shattering them. He threw knives, sinking them up to their hafts in target dummies. He slid under barbed wire as bullets zinged over his head. He stood, and let rounds deflect off his armor. To his amazement, he actually dodged one or two of the rounds. (The Fall of Reach, pg 117) - Master Chief, after receiving the MJOLNIR armor.

MJOLNIR Mark IV Armor

* The MJOLNIR Mark V armor is similar to the Mark II with a few enhancements and added improvements such as thicker armor plating and a smaller fusion pack.
* Recharging energy shields gleaned from Covenant shield technology and improved upon. Capable of deflecting ballistic weapons and dissipating energy weaponry as well.
* The Mark V armor has a new layer located between the armors reactive circuits and inner bio-layers that is a weave of additional memory processing superconductors. This memory processing layer is a conduit that interfaces the armor and its user to a ship-born A.I. system. This new system greatly increases the reaction time of its wearer and the armor by adding the processing power of the A.I. and translating the users impulses from its motor cortex directly into motion.
* In addition, the on-board A.I. can provide tactical, strategic and updated intelligence in the field by intercepting and decoding point-to-point transmissions and infiltrating computer and communications systems.

“Calculate the inbound velocity of a Scorpion missile. Factor in my reaction time and the jet’s inbound speed and distance at launch, and tell me the instant I need to move to sidestep and deflect it with my left arm.”

Cortana paused a heartbeat. “Calculation done. You did say ‘deflect’?”

“Scorpion missiles have motion-tracking sensors and proximity detectors. I can’t outrun it. And it won’t miss. That leaves us very few options.” (The Fall of Reach, pg 263)
- Master Chief, after receiving Mark V armor and before deflecting a missile, with the help of Cortana.

MJOLNIR Mark V Armor (uncertified/not field tested)

* Neural induction circuits improved giving Spartans better reaction time and a speed boost.
* New linear accelerator added to the shield system, doubling its strength.
* Better tracking system for the heads-up display, improving accuracy at distances up to a thousand meters.
* New sensors boosting the sensitivity of motion trackers.
* Twice the shield strength of the Mark IV
* Increased reaction-time of the Mark IV

[Edited on 7/12/2004 7:40:00 AM]

  • 07.12.2004 7:35 AM PDT
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An in-depth guide to MJOLNIR armor. I am currently working on an in-depth guide to amazing feats of the Spartans as we speak.

Oh - and I'll get back to you on the frag grenade calc...

Actually, I think I'll make a second thread for the MJOLNIR armor...just in case there are those uninterested in this thread.

[Edited on 7/12/2004 7:44:22 AM]

  • 07.12.2004 7:37 AM PDT
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wicked dude!

that was an excellent post before with all the mjolnir stats. I like it, I like it alot!!!


are you goign to post the other spartan stuff in here?

  • 07.12.2004 7:43 AM PDT
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Posted by: The MasterChief8
wicked dude!

that was an excellent post before with all the mjolnir stats. I like it, I like it alot!!!


are you goign to post the other spartan stuff in here?

Sure, I'll post what I've got but like I said - some of it are fairly loose calculations. I'll try to include all info possible to ensure discussion.

  • 07.12.2004 7:52 AM PDT
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OMG y would you care how many joules it takes to make water boil in a planet you MUST be really bored

  • 07.12.2004 7:57 AM PDT
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Posted by: Sc0pe
OMG y would you care how many joules it takes to make water boil in a planet you MUST be really bored

No dude. Physics just fascinates me. Most especially the physics of planet destruction, weapons, sci-fi weapons, etc. [insert evil grin here]

  • 07.12.2004 8:01 AM PDT
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[quote]No dude. Physics just fascinates me. Most especially the physics of planet destruction, weapons, sci-fi weapons, etc. [insert evil grin here][quote]

hehehe - so true hey. good call.

I like all those stats about those 'planet-killer' nukes that admiral stanforth let loose on Reach. woot woot!

[Edited on 7/12/2004 8:08:02 AM]

  • 07.12.2004 8:06 AM PDT
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One thing to remember is that Nylund didn't give a crap about physics.

He ignored the effects of zero gravity at certain points, or that plasma magically cut through anything without losing momentum... like a frickin' laser attatched to a shark's head.

Then there's my absolute favourite "flash-freezing" in outer space? That's absolutely hilarious.

  • 07.12.2004 8:07 AM PDT
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hmmm........I wouldn't agree that he didn't pay any notice to physics in the books.

however - you are totally right about zero g, flash-freezing and plasma acting all crazy like a fricken shark with a fricken laser beam on its head. 8 )

its funny how many people get this idea of 'Vacuum' in their heads and just f)ck it all up.

  • 07.12.2004 8:11 AM PDT
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Posted by: The MasterChief8
No dude. Physics just fascinates me. Most especially the physics of planet destruction, weapons, sci-fi weapons, etc. [insert evil grin here]

hehehe - so true hey. good call.

I like all those stats about those 'planet-killer' nukes that admiral stanforth let loose on Reach. woot woot!

I forgot about the Nova. The yield for the Nova would have to be tremendous indeed - exceeding the asteroid that caused K-T Extinction event.

Yields for that, assuming Haverson's comments are true about it being able to 'crack a planets crust', would be in excess of 1e9 megatons (most likely in 1e10-1e11 megaton range) - fully capable of causing a global extinction event. The ballistic ejecta (or possibly the radiative heating) alone would be able to heat up the entire atmosphere to the point of total sterilization.

[Edited on 7/12/2004 8:20:58 AM]

  • 07.12.2004 8:19 AM PDT
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hhehe - full "planet-cracker" styles. (8 0

imagine the EM pulse from it?!

maybe they could use one of the nova's to take out another covie fleet, or at least drop a helluva lot of shields, then hit em with the super macs orbiting earth.

  • 07.12.2004 8:25 AM PDT
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imagine how big the EM pulse would be from it?!

maybe they can use it against another covie armada in low earth orbit and take out there fleet. it maybe further out into space as not to fry all the electronics on Earth, and also the super-macs.

  • 07.12.2004 8:27 AM PDT

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