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Subject: Are the moderators more tolerant of the misbehavior of highly ranke...

"Once Bungie takes over the world, The Marty Army will take over Bungie and then we'll really have some fun."
-Marty O'Donnell

"Condemnant quod non intellegunt."

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Posted by: bobcast
It would be interesting to see how conversations would change if the member titles/bars were removed.

I believe that a lot of peoples contributions and thoughts are ignored based on their member title.


I agree. And as much as I try to stay consciously neutral and unbiased, it has an effect at a subconscious level, if nothing else.

For instance, if I didn't know how awesome of a Bungie fan you were, I probably wouldn't be replying.
;)

  • 04.02.2009 1:09 PM PDT
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lol bnet

This may sound weird, but I think it comes down to style.

If I've seen a user around plenty of times before and I know what they're like (A friendly person, jokester, etc) then chances are that I won't be surprised at what they post. Each member has a style to their posts because of this.

Now, if a user that is usually sooper srs starts spamming/making witty, one-liner replies, I'll see them differently. If they're usually witty and take it too far, etc.

  • 04.02.2009 1:19 PM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: CornetoGospel
Posted by: Lord Snakie
Then it could possibly turn into a "recon for the forums" situation.

We already have that...*looks at snakie's title bar*
Well... Mythic is a lot more widespread than Recon is. Although I agree- this is a hierarchy situation, although much less desired and much less rare than recon.

I do think Mythic members get a slight preferential treatment. Instead of a ban, they get sent to the basement with Duardo and a stick of butter.And that's not even punishment!

  • 04.02.2009 1:22 PM PDT
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The End

‘The conscious is cancerous if allowed to linger’

"Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there."

Posted by: Covenant Carbine
Posted by: nubyw00tz
Not really. When I was a Legendary Member I was banned for 3 days for 'incorrect forum copping'.
:)

There's a correct way to forum cop?
Forum copping isn't as many assume a completely bad thing that involves smart ass comments such as "in b4 the lock wrong forum" it can, if done correctly, be a helpful thing to do. To Forum cop "correctly" is of course a matter of opinion and can be a 'grey' area in terms of what you should and shouldn't do but I'll briefly outline how I see it.

Time of day/board activity, question, not quoting and relevance/accuracy are all crucial. If you are unsure the safest bet is always to private message the user rather than replying, often I suggest opting for that approach as it is just as helpful in most cases although there are, naturally, some exceptions.

To forum cop "correctly" the user needs to post in a helpful manner explaining where the OP has gone wrong if need be in a polite way. This effectively saves moderators the task of explaining themselves and can be beneficial.

The time of day and board activity should also be considered, this is where many trip up, they reply in a hectic, active forum and bump the thread back to the top in an environment where it then accumulates many spam replies, this can be fatal especially if the topic is about something such as recon armour and can get them banned for replying to spam (which is a matter of moderator opinion).

The question is also relevant, a frequent question should be ignored or, if replying, the helpful thread should be linked. Comments such as "Use the search feature" are not remotely helpful and are borderline spam.

Quoting the post is also something a forum cop should not do in many cases. If, for example, a user posts a magazine scan but the thread is legitimate in every other sense the user should not quote the scan when telling the user to remove the scan from their post. This seems like common sense but the frequency the quoting user is banned because of this is actually fairly high.

Finally, this relates to nuby's post, relevance and accuracy are vital. Providing inaccurate information is not helpful such as telling a user a post is in the wrong forum when it isn't or telling them it should be in X forum when it should actually be in Y. Vague information is also not helpful, "I think recon is only obtainable from doing special stuff", it can also be considered spam.

Now I see I have began a small essay here which wasn't really needed. I often go off so a bit of self control and I'm leaving this post here. There is a correct way to forum cop however often I suggest not bothering in very active forums such as the Halo 3 forum. I only tend to "forum cop" in less active boards such as the community forum where the thread isn't going to explode with spam and the thread is locked with little hassle and the OP is benefited.

Remember that forum copping isn't about recognition, using private messages and being a silent hero is often overlooked but many do it. That is the best forum of forum copping in many cases and you won't have any chance of getting banned because of it.

  • 04.02.2009 1:24 PM PDT
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|Ask Your Ninja |
Any questions about anything, PM me. The only stupid question, is the one never asked.
"But, doctor...I am Pagliacci."
Posted by: bobcast
I hate you unless I'm drunk.

I "copped" once. I only got 10 years instead of life.
I kid. No I was in the flood and someone necro-bumped, and I told the OP that Necro Bumping was agaisnt the rules, I then was blacklisted for replying to spam.

  • 04.02.2009 1:34 PM PDT
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O-3 US Army Reserves AMEDD APMC
"To conserve the fighting strength!"

Posted by: Jay120171
Bobcast: the only ninja to operate an ER out of his mom's basement

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Posted by: bobcast
It would be interesting to see how conversations would change if the member titles/bars were removed.

I believe that a lot of peoples contributions and thoughts are ignored based on their member title.



Sorry if this ends up being a double post...

Don't worry Bob, I ignore you cause of you, not because of your member title. <3

~B.B.


Your about to lose that Gold Label treat for your birthday!

  • 04.02.2009 1:34 PM PDT
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Ranks: TS - 50 LW - 45 TSW - 45 TDBS - 43 MLG - 48

I personally believe everyone should be treated equal. If a Heroic Member is banned for a certain offense, and a Mythic Member repeats that offense, the Mythic Member should be banned likewise. They (Mythic Members) should not be given a free ride just because they have been here longer.

*Was going to add a little extra, but realized that would contradict the first part of my statement. (Not in favor of Mythic Members though =P).

  • 04.02.2009 1:34 PM PDT

28, Architect ll Deviantart ll TWP(Formerly Halo 3 in the WorkPLace) - Assistant Director ll SIP ll OTK ll DMH

Posted by: Lord Snakie
Well... Mythic is a lot more widespread than Recon is. Although I agree- this is a hierarchy situation, although much less desired and much less rare than recon.
I beg to differ, there are approximately 450 Recon perms being used and I believe there are less than 300 Mythic Members, but percentage-wise you might be correct.

  • 04.02.2009 2:26 PM PDT

Owners of the Katana: A place for those who have a Katana or over 1000GS in Halo 3.

Posted by: SHADOW167
Somewhere out there... in an alternate reality... Marty decided to stay in the ad jingle business, bringing about an age of amazingly orchestrated Pampers commercials.

Posted by: Covenant Carbine
Posted by: nubyw00tz
Not really. When I was a Legendary Member I was banned for 3 days for 'incorrect forum copping'.
:)

There's a correct way to forum cop?

Actually, I told a guy to post his Halo 3 Screenshot in the Gallery forum, but that was incorrect information I was giving out. Still, the point is that I was a Legendary Member and I was still banned the same way a normal member would've been.

  • 04.02.2009 2:37 PM PDT

USAF Air Traffic Controller.
#moap

I thought I had a point to make but then lost it altogether. I'll edit this post when I remember.
I don't really get mixed up in the magical hierarchy that so many people get lost in. I'd rather we all be the same and hold hands like summercamp.

  • 04.02.2009 2:40 PM PDT

Gaming Rig Specs:
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MSI Z77A-GD65 Mainboard // MSI GTX 680 Twin Frozr III OC Edition Graphics Card -- Runs BF3 on ultra at anywhere from 60FPS to 130+FPS.

|| Average Joe ||

I once tried to save a friend's account from being permanently banned for spam, because his little brother had been on his PC and posted completely stupid things. I was the only person in the thread not to be banned, and Foman even said that my Legendary status saved me. Although, I fell to Heroic. Still, I got it back up. Hooray!

  • 04.02.2009 2:57 PM PDT

Dianna Agron is the epitome of perfection.

Quinntology.

There has always been a sort of "hierarchy" in the Septagon. Those who are included in this group usually don't get banned unless they just blatantly break the rules and don't care about it. Most of these people in this so-called upper class are Mythic members and therefore don't get punishments for a simple spam crime, which they shouldn't

However, I do notice that it is always these people tend to derail threads like crazy. Just take a look at any Hot Topic and you'll notice there is a lot of blue bars not contributing to the actual discussion but instead talk about some inside joke that vaguely connects with the topic. After the joke is made, everyone else builds off of it and eventually the topic is lost. This doesn't happen all the time, but I tend to see three or four of them a week. Perhaps it's just because of the nature of the Septagon? I don't know. If this same kind of situation would happen in the Flood I may have a different opinion. It just irks me when I see a great topic derailed because somebody who has "partial immunity" makes a non-topic remark and everyone builds off of it.

  • 04.02.2009 2:58 PM PDT

It is not never falling that makes us strong,
It is rising every time we fall.

- Ghandi

IF YOU SEND ME A GROUP INVITE I WILL BLOCK YOU

Don't disrespect the rules.

I was a Mythic Member for two weeks then I went berserk on another member, I dropped back down to a member as punishment.

DO NOT DISRESPECT THE RULES.

  • 04.02.2009 3:01 PM PDT

Tom Achronos
Bungie.net Overlord
twitter: http://twitter.com/Achronos

"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

It should be noted that if I did change it to a "pick the title you want from the list you've unlocked" I'd probably make sure that a great many of them would be rather obvious as to how you'd "unlock" them. They'd also be participation in nature for the most part. No "is a level 50 in Halo 3", more of "Played X ranked games" or "Played Y social games" or " Played Z custom games". And the elitism you guys seem so fond of whining about wouldn't be there because nobody could tell if you just like a different title or if you don't have a title because you can't unlock it. With a hierarchy, it becomes just a popularity issue, which is easily controlled.

I think I'd also make the bar color just indicative of join date, not the trust rating. I don't really want to give you control over that.

Eh, maybe, maybe not. Again, thinking out loud. It sure would be funny on release day when everybody's bars change and they revert to member because the old way got removed. The Halo 3 forum would freak out.

Posted by: Spartan_008
I liked it better when everyone was just a regular member back in 2006. Sure, I've read all of this, but I don't understand why some members with newer accounts than mine are both higher in base title and prefix title as well. Oh well, maybe I should post longer responses or something.

  • 04.02.2009 3:05 PM PDT

Gaming Rig Specs:
Coolermaster HAF X // XFX Pro 850W XXX PSU // Corsair 16GB Vengeance RAM (1600MHz) //
Corsair 120GB Force GT SSD // Western Digital Caviar Green 2TB HDD // Intel i7 3770k CPU //
MSI Z77A-GD65 Mainboard // MSI GTX 680 Twin Frozr III OC Edition Graphics Card -- Runs BF3 on ultra at anywhere from 60FPS to 130+FPS.

|| Average Joe ||

Posted by: Achronos
Eh, maybe, maybe not. Again, thinking out loud. It sure would be funny on release day when everybody's bars change and they revert to member because the old way got removed. The Halo 3 forum would freak out.
But then you wouldn't know who to give leeway to!

Still, the majority of Halo 3 Forum-goers are regular members anyway. =S

  • 04.02.2009 3:09 PM PDT
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I do not appreciate B.Net Group solicitation. If you ignore this and send me an invitation anyway, I will block communications with you.

Yes, at times. If anyone remembers the spam thread spearheaded by both Foman and Zag (it was in fact stickied for a short while, though I can't remember the actual topic), that might be a prime example.

I was actually going to suggest the opposite, however. I'm generally a very involved member of the Halo 3 Forum, minus my intermittent and lengthy absences at times, but prior to the new title system, I'd noticed that Heroics and Legendaries seemed to be blacklisted more often than normal Members. As Yoozel said, if you're a higher-ranked member of this community, you probably know how to act, and a renowned member deviating from what is allowable would most likely stick out more than a normal member.

Then again, back then there were far fewer Heroics and Legendaries than there were normal Members, so perhaps there was no such selective nature and it just seemed that way.

  • 04.02.2009 3:13 PM PDT

You say tomato; I say potato.

Posted by: Achronos
I often wonder if it would be better to link it game participation (probably keeping the prefixes, I like those) and just lose the Heroic/Legendary/Mythic. Maybe as we make more games available we could think up some alternate stuff. But in the meantime, watching how you guys behave relating to a somewhat arbitrary rating is very intriguing.
Maybe you could just replace the word "Member" in the title with game related words?

As far as Halo goes, you could select to choose between character model used and weapon type used. Lets say I use the battle rifle a lot, my title could be Fabled Mythic Rifleman. Or If I like to show off my player model, I'd be Fabled Mythic Spartan. You could even have it show if you play campaign more than MM. I wouldn't mind being Fabled Mythic Monitor.

  • 04.02.2009 3:18 PM PDT
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I do not appreciate B.Net Group solicitation. If you ignore this and send me an invitation anyway, I will block communications with you.

Posted by: gnome13
Posted by: Achronos
I often wonder if it would be better to link it game participation (probably keeping the prefixes, I like those) and just lose the Heroic/Legendary/Mythic. Maybe as we make more games available we could think up some alternate stuff. But in the meantime, watching how you guys behave relating to a somewhat arbitrary rating is very intriguing.
Maybe you could just replace the word "Member" in the title with game related words?

As far as Halo goes, you could select to choose between character model used and weapon type used. Lets say I use the battle rifle a lot, my title could be Fabled Mythic Rifleman. Or If I like to show off my player model, I'd be Fabled Mythic Spartan. You could even have it show if you play campaign more than MM. I wouldn't mind being Fabled Mythic Monitor.
I like this idea. Customizing the type of member that you are, versus the rank, doesn't seem like it would cause any popularity issues.

  • 04.02.2009 3:23 PM PDT

Posted by: xianoa
how happy is a midget likely to be once you start melting cheese on them?


(O : o)=GTI=W====(o : O)

IMO no. Why do i say that? Well I was posting in this thread and i got banned for "stepping in". How was I "stepping in" I have no idea. I don't see why I couldn't have gotten a warning or something but nope. I got a full on 14 day ban for bull-blam!-. I don't know of many people who get banned for "stepping in". Eveyone except skiptrace got banned which i think is a little unfair.

Ever since I lost my Legendary title I don't feel as inclined as I once was to contribute with highly thought-out responses. I have been banned 3-4 times since then and I have come to the conclusion that it's near impossible for me to regain that title.

Now, it may be different for the Mythic members but as far as I'm concerned Legendary members are treated like the rest of the community.

  • 04.02.2009 3:23 PM PDT

"I wanted to make people happy, if only for an hour."
-Busby Berkley

RIP Halo 2

Well, I would say that they are not as quick to ban mythic members as they are to ban regular members or members they don't recognize. But that's because the mythic members have mainly built up a level of trust. I don't see this as a problem at all, it's how the world works.

  • 04.02.2009 3:26 PM PDT

sHoW mE Mii OpOnnEnNT

I've noticed it in groups, in fact in the group I run I've done it myself. It just makes sense. If you've been around a while you won't get in trouble since the mods sort of know you. If you're friends with a cop who pulls you over, you won't get a ticket most times. Same basic principle.

  • 04.02.2009 3:35 PM PDT
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The trust system is a ranking system, it is a number assigned to you for your behavior. The higher the number, the better the rating or bar. Although it differentiates people it is also provides for a clear ranking system.


Posted by: Achronos
The trust rating already includes elements of game participation. I'm talking about making titles less about rankings and more about just labels. Right now, there is a hierarchy. What if there wasn't really a hierarchy. What if they were just labels that you got? The current idea that I fancy is that they'd be a user setting - there would be a set of titles that you can earn for various things, and then you'd go to your My Settings page and select which one you want to use. The prefix would still be done in the same way it is now, to differentiate a bit more. Not sure what I'd do about the bar colors, maybe they'd be earned too.

You guys think of the forum titles as a ranking system, but that's not how I see their purpose. I see it more for differentiating people on the forums, just like avatars.

Nothing really planned here, just thinking out loud.
Posted by: TOM T 117
I often wonder if it would be better to link it game participation (probably keeping the prefixes, I like those) and just lose the Heroic/Legendary/Mythic. Maybe as we make more games available we could think up some alternate stuff.Linking it to game participation is a direction I would not like to see the system take. One immediate issue I can see is people regarding these titles much as they do with the Spartan vs Elite scenario. I think the titles should stay related to forum participation and on site activity rather than off site activity, it just complicates the affair.

The current system is trust rating based hence elitism is less likely to spawn (as those with higher trust ratings should know better), I fail to see how this could be controlled on a system based off site without trust ratings still being heavily weighted.

I wouldn't mind the removal of bar colours, it makes some posts stand out more than others which, in a community based on equality of members, (we'll ignore the employees for the sake of argument) isn't really ideal so in that sense I wouldn't mind the removal of the heroic/legendary/mythic titles (don't tell Skibur).

  • 04.02.2009 4:07 PM PDT
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Destinypedia - The Wiki for Bungie's Destiny
Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

Posted by: Achronos
It should be noted that if I did change it to a "pick the title you want from the list you've unlocked" I'd probably make sure that a great many of them would be rather obvious as to how you'd "unlock" them. They'd also be participation in nature for the most part. No "is a level 50 in Halo 3", more of "Played X ranked games" or "Played Y social games" or " Played Z custom games". And the elitism you guys seem so fond of whining about wouldn't be there because nobody could tell if you just like a different title or if you don't have a title because you can't unlock it. With a hierarchy, it becomes just a popularity issue, which is easily controlled.

I think I'd also make the bar color just indicative of join date, not the trust rating. I don't really want to give you control over that.

Eh, maybe, maybe not. Again, thinking out loud. It sure would be funny on release day when everybody's bars change and they revert to member because the old way got removed. The Halo 3 forum would freak out.

Posted by: Spartan_008
I liked it better when everyone was just a regular member back in 2006. Sure, I've read all of this, but I don't understand why some members with newer accounts than mine are both higher in base title and prefix title as well. Oh well, maybe I should post longer responses or something.
This would be a really interesting way to integrate the forums more with the games, which I remember was a primary push behind possible "big ticket" changes to private groups back in December.

However, I thought that the trust rating was implemented for the purposes of eventually implementing something like the member titles on the public forums? Wouldn't this completely negate the purpose of having trust ratings at all? I like the idea of being able to have a (very) rough idea at a glance of how much Bungie.net "trusts" a user, and I like the concept that trust ratings have noticeably encouraged some users to behave better on these forums. As my PM box can attest, users do care about member titles, and they know that warnings and bans can hurt them.

The Bungie.net public forums are one of the primary roosting places, if not the primary roosting place for the Bungie fan community (although they are also the place where many players who would not consider themselves part of the "community" come to ask a quick question, get news, or arrange custom games). For this reason, I also like the idea that users with high "trust" ratings (or perhaps eventually some other related measure of value to the Bungie Community) receive some kind of recognition. We have had these trust ratings and member titles for a long time now, and the prior concerns from some community members about "elitism" have simply not manifested themselves. MOST people (except newbies) realize that the Titles are not "ranks," and realizing that activity and following the rules, generally, are the best ways to gain a higher title. I think that maintaining a recognition system for users with higher trust ratings (just like member titles, nothing too fancy -- perhaps extra avatar options or something else that a member can attach a small "value" to that incentivizes him or her to stick around and keep following the rules) is still a good idea and should not be completely wiped off the drawing board.

With that said, I still think the idea of implementing new and different titles based on integration with Bungie games would be fun and very interactive. Definitely something that it would be cool if you Bungie folks kept thinking about in the back of your heads. I just think that the member titles have already had enough positive effect on the forums to justify maintaining SOME kind of recognition for having a high trust rating on the site. :-)

[Edited on 04.02.2009 4:28 PM PDT]

  • 04.02.2009 4:27 PM PDT

(random yet funny signature goes here)

To be honest, I've seen this discussion played out many many times before. And it usually ends in most people disliking the system since it leads to "elitism" while others like it because they feel it's a good judgement on a person and their "trust rating".

However aren't both sides really just arguing the same thing? I dislike it because it gives some people undeserved superiority. Then at the same time, I like it because it lets me know who's a general jerk and or troll or wether or not they're a good person. Both simes just seem to be running in a circular logic. Then there's the whole side of those without any fancy titles who feel overlooked since while they don't break rules, they still haven't had the time to build up their rating. It's an honest argument, generally on larger threads I myself focus on names I recognize and fancy color bar posts.

Then you have those guys who feel the need to post and respond to every single little comment just to build post count since it's proven to have an affect. While they don't break the rules, they really don't contribute much. Honestly there's nothing wrong with letting a thread age a little before you respond that way you have more ideas to read and base your thoughts off of, instead of responding to each respons seperately.

To me, the current system may not necessarily be flawed, but it does seem to bring up more problems then it does solve, at least from the non mod side anyways. I understand how it's a useful tool for the mods to use when deciding on bans/warnings. Perhaps if they kept the current system and made it visible only to moderators, such as a numerical based rating. That said, a replacement would be needed, so why not go with the system you were talking about, Achronos, where you unlock titles and choose the one you prefer.

  • 04.02.2009 4:40 PM PDT