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  • Subject: Are the moderators more tolerant of the misbehavior of highly ranke...
Subject: Are the moderators more tolerant of the misbehavior of highly ranke...

We believe that the universe is unbounded: this is not the same as infinite: the 2-D surface of a sphere, wrapped around a 3rd dimension, has a finite size, but has no end. If you start off in a given direction on the surface of a sphere, you could return to your start point without having to turn around -- you simply go all the way around. But wouldn't that mean the universe has an escape velocity like the earth?

lol, used to be noble, until i had to babysit, my cousin wrote in a spam thread inappropriately and BLAm, back to member, which truly hacked me off...

  • 04.03.2009 2:18 AM PDT

KOTOR
Also: Swine Flu
Posted by: Achronos
We don't need a rule for every single freaking thing someone thinks is spam.

Posted by: Placid Platypus
Looooooooooooong rant. . . Is long.


It's like asking, "why listen to the President? He's just a person in a suit, he's just a man!" well the answer is he's gone to college, done the hard yards and come out the other end.

Same rules apply to mythics, they've been around for a while, have followed the rules, been productive members and have proof of it.

  • 04.03.2009 2:45 AM PDT

§NiNjA§ ╪D e L i V e R a N c E╪
No cake for the impurator
___.............._______/```````````````:::--..
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|............... ||7 ......//--'---,,, ,,, ,,, ,,, ,,, /=
`-.,._._._..||__ //

It seems like a lot of people in this thread need to secure their passwords/computers from their younger siblings.

  • 04.03.2009 4:29 AM PDT

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Isn't the elitism argument a little over-blown? I am speaking only from my limited experience, but I have yet to see anyone with a title act differently because of it. The complaiunts of elitism seem more like the come from the people withyout titles. I guess that's where they would come from. But, since your trust rating is entirely, if amiguously, in your own control, There is really no cause for cries of "special treatment."

[Edited on 04.03.2009 5:39 AM PDT]

  • 04.03.2009 5:38 AM PDT

I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.

Posted by: Omnicent
Posted by: Placid Platypus
Looooooooooooong rant. . . Is long.


It's like asking, "why listen to the President? He's just a person in a suit, he's just a man!" well the answer is he's gone to college, done the hard yards and come out the other end.

Same rules apply to mythics, they've been around for a while, have followed the rules, been productive members and have proof of it.
Clearly you don't know our presidents.

Its like Yoozel said, when you have been around for a while you learn what is acceptable behavior and what is not. I've been gone for about a month and a half - like anyone reading this cares... correction: like anyone's reading this - and it was for a lot of reasons.

The biggest being that I was sick and tired of people just ignoring posts and hitting the reply button to get noticed, post their two sense, or in the general public's case - act like idiots.

Why I say this? 'Cause this is the sort of thing that the moderators have to deal with. The elder members don't do such things because, well... they aren't trying to impress everyone all the time - mostly.

Should mythic/elder members be cut some slack? Probably when considering their history... but I've been held accountable for my behavior lots of times, ask Foman! =P

  • 04.03.2009 8:15 AM PDT

§NiNjA§ ╪D e L i V e R a N c E╪
No cake for the impurator
___.............._______/```````````````:::--..
| ««,-§§. ____:.______ __' __'__' _ _ _ \=
|............... ||7 ......//--'---,,, ,,, ,,, ,,, ,,, /=
`-.,._._._..||__ //

I agree with others' statements that those of higher rank should (and probably do) know the forum rules well and what is acceptable/what isn't.
The color of the bar above their posts suggests that they know right from wrong. However, as far as being just or merciful goes, it call comes down to judging the user's individual actions. Just because they have been a member for a long time does not mean that they cannot err.

  • 04.03.2009 8:43 AM PDT

Twitter | Nothing

I've been Mythic on and off and to the best of my knowledge I have never been banned or warned. Be nice if one of the Ninja's could confirm this either way.

[this was directed at SonicJohn, but I forgot to press the quote button and I don't want to go back to get it]

[Edited on 04.03.2009 8:45 AM PDT]

  • 04.03.2009 8:44 AM PDT

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They probably do, though you would think it would be the opposite, right?

If you're a more experienced member you should, in theory, get harsher punishments for breaking the rules, as you should (and do) know better.

  • 04.03.2009 9:10 AM PDT

§NiNjA§ ╪D e L i V e R a N c E╪
No cake for the impurator
___.............._______/```````````````:::--..
| ««,-§§. ____:.______ __' __'__' _ _ _ \=
|............... ||7 ......//--'---,,, ,,, ,,, ,,, ,,, /=
`-.,._._._..||__ //

Posted by: SS_Zag1
They probably do, though you would think it would be the opposite, right?

If you're a more experienced member you should, in theory, get harsher punishments for breaking the rules, as you should (and do) know better.


Agreed. If a high ranking member blatantly disregards forum rules then he should be banned. However, if said member has proven himself to typically be a positively contributing member to the community, the punishment could be less severe. Like I said though, you can't always tell whether a member usually contributes positively or negatively based solely on the color of his bar.

[Edited on 04.03.2009 9:25 AM PDT]

  • 04.03.2009 9:25 AM PDT
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Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

Posted by: Placid Platypus
Posted by: x Foman123 x
For me personally, Legendary and Mythic members get more leeway generally -- not necessarily because I know them, but because their member titles are a recognition of a long history of being around, being active, and not getting into trouble with the rules. If I send a message to a Mythic Member asking him to please not make a certain type of post, or please be sure to post in a certain forum from now on, I know I will get a response back that is coherent and reasonable. If I post in a Mythic Member's off-topic thread with the reason why the thread is being locked, I know that the Mythic Member will read it and try to avoid doing that kind of thing anymore.


So, you trust people based simply off of colored pixels? If that's the case, what of some one who was Mythic, but due to a decline in participation, has become a 'lesser' member? Do you trust them less simply because their bar isn't a certain color. I'd go as far as to call such behavior possibly absurd, and certainly favoritism.

Personally I think that if you sent "a message to [any] Member asking him to please not make a certain type of post, or please be sure to post in a certain forum from now on", most would understand what you are saying and agree to do as you say. Give people more credit than it seems like you do, and I'd wager you may just be surpised with how many members act like Mythics given the chance. For that matter, what of members who have been around for some time but don't have a Mythic status due to their unwillingness to post for the sake of posting? I'd postulate that a good number of members have lurked for quite a while and rarely post, especially when compared to the relative total number of actual Mythic members who actively do so (post, that is).

People make mistakes and I find it unfair to treat one class of members differently from another. Yes, I know that this is "Bungie's site, we have no rights, play nice", so don't give me that line. That doesn't excuse letting some people get away with things you'd ban or blacklist others for. If a new member mistakenly posts something in the wrong forum simply because he didn't know to first look to the side of a forum for a tiny header (or multiple headers as is often the case) and read the detailed rules for each and every forum on B.net, that does not mean they either won't get around to doing so or would have ignored them if they did. Sometimes mistakes are honestly made, so why punish someone for such?

If a sense of 'community' is as important to everyone here as this thread is making it out to be, why ban and possibly 'turn off' a new user to the site when that same user could have potentially become a Mythic member or even the next Stosh somewhere down the line? I believe a sense of community is founded on respect and that respect should extend to everyone, and this is the important part, equally. When one set of people recieve more respect than others you don't have a community, you have cliques.

Then again, who am I to say anything? I'm just a member who doesn't have a blue bar nor has the time to post every day.
I understand where you're coming from, but hopefully if I can correct some of your line of thinking, your outrage will be a little bit lessened.

I am not saying that users with just a "Member" title are untrustworthy. Hell, some of the users I trust the most here have a "Member" title. What I'm saying, however, is that a member who is Legendary or Mythic has a proven track record of relatively active forum posting combined with posting within the rules. In general (and with some admitted exceptions), these members know the rules and try to abide by them. If they make a misstep and I tell them about it, they are likely to correct it.

I have to disagree that "most" users would "act like Mythics given the chance." This is not cynicism -- I know that many members hope to achieve a higher title. I also know that a huge majority of the users here are good-natured, nice people who just want to come and talk about their favorite video game or gaming community for awhile. But long experience and observation have taught that most members post by trial-and-error. In other words, they post what and where they feel like it, and if they get warned/banned for it, THAT is when they know not to do it again. In some cases, they post what and where they feel like it and if they get banned for it they simply wait out the ban and then do it again. This description fits the vast, vast majority of users of these forums, and I would wager that not only have these users not read the forum rules, ToU, and CoC, they do not even know where to find them.

I know that you're optimistic about the nature of most users of these forums, but please believe me when I say that this is the reality. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing, either -- the vast majority of users have no stake in the forums and simply want to ask a quick question, have a one-off discussion about Halo or Matchmaking, or get caught up on the latest news. Nothing wrong with that, and for a user like that, there's really no reason to read the rules or post in any manner other than trial-and-error. But this kind of posting on a mass scale by thousands of users is not good for the forums as a whole, which is why the admins and moderators generally do what they can to discourage such trial-and-error posting.

Most Legendary and Mythic members, on the other hand, have generally learned the rules either by keen observation over several YEARS on these forums or by actually reading the rules themselves. Before they even hit the "submit" button, they usually have a very good idea whether their post is within the rules or not. They are not posting by trial-and-error. But even then, they can make mistakes. That is where a little leeway comes in.

I agree that great communities require a sense of respect and equality, but I don't think that this is inconsistent with that. Saying that a community has a "sense of equality" simply means that no discrimination occurs for arbitrary reasons. Here, it is no different. All members are treated equally based on their trust rating and history on the forums. There is no arbitrary discrimination, but there is different treatment for members who have proven that they are upstanding and active community members. It sounds absolutely insane to say that a member with 15 prior bans for posting off-topic should receive the same ban for posting off-topic yet again as a Mythic Member who has been here for five years and slips up and accidentally posts in the wrong forum.

I do not see how giving a bit of leeway to Legendary and Mythic members (or any member with a trust rating that indicates that they are both active and rule abiding) is either absurd or "favoritism" in the sense that you mean it.

  • 04.03.2009 10:33 AM PDT

ooga booga boooh

Posted by: A Celtic Tiger
I haven't seen a Mythic member blacklisted.

Because they don't do anything to deserve that.


Quite a few have. Look at the group for Mythic Members Only, and a lot are now just members. 3 off the top of my head come in mind. To me, it is a rather ridiculous thing when people are exempted from punishment because of their status bar. For once in my BNET life, I'm with Yoozel on the whole "they've been here, they should know the rules". Never thought I'd take his side, but, it is true. If anything the punishments should be more severe, because they are so much more wise than thou. Just me though.

  • 04.03.2009 10:51 AM PDT

Tom Achronos
Bungie.net Overlord
twitter: http://twitter.com/Achronos

"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

You already do.
Posted by: z MASTERCHIEF z
Something I wish could be implemented would be earning trust based on activity without actually posting. I'm on here a lot reading the forums, but I don't actually post that much. I can see that this would be abused though, so maybe it's not such a good idea.

  • 04.03.2009 11:06 AM PDT

Tom Achronos
Bungie.net Overlord
twitter: http://twitter.com/Achronos

"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

Yeah, I hate elitism. No, not elitism in general. I have a well developed ego, I don't really care what some random guy on the Internet thinks about me. I have been known to critique the quality of insults sent to me when I ban people.

What I hate is posts about elitism. Sorry, but "elitism" is, to me, an excuse used to not do something. I almost NEVER consider what people say when they use the word "elitism." That's the best way to convince me that you don't understand community management and that you have nothing of value to contribute. There will always be people on the Internet and in life that have to justify their existence by trying to claim they are better then others. The big secret is that those types of people aren't better than others, and are, in fact, worse. I don't understand what's so hard about ignoring those people. I don't understand why you feel the need to complain about some random group who has a self-esteem problem, or why it is relevant here.

At any rate, my posts about changes for the way titles are selected is because I like them as a customization option more than I like them for displaying a generalized form of an arbitrary trust rating that you can't see or predict other than "don't get banned". I'd still probably keep the prefixes around, and tie them to trust rating a bit more.

The point is that while trust ratings are useful, titles base on them aren't really "fun", where as a system that unlocks titles for you to choose from based on your various activities in the community is more fun, more transparent, and expandable as I see fit, with the added bonus that I don't have to listen to people whine to me wondering why they lost their title after getting banned for spamming.

Posted by: Reptilian Rob
waaaaaaaaaaah... elitism

  • 04.03.2009 11:24 AM PDT

ooga booga boooh

Posted by: Reptilian Rob
Posted by: Achronos
What I hate is posts about elitism. Sorry, but "elitism" is, to me, an excuse used to not do something.

That was the jest of what I was trying to convey, perhaps you misread my previous post.

Or perhaps you are only proving my point. I'll reply in depth later.


My thoughts exactly.

  • 04.03.2009 11:34 AM PDT

Tom Achronos
Bungie.net Overlord
twitter: http://twitter.com/Achronos

"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

More agreeing with you in a circular kind of way, then moving the topic back to an explanation of why I think what I do about titles (making them "fun" should be the goal).

Posted by: Reptilian Rob
That was the jest of what I was trying to convey, perhaps you misread my previous post.

Or perhaps you are only proving my point. I'll reply in depth later.

  • 04.03.2009 11:36 AM PDT

(random yet funny signature goes here)

Posted by: Achronos
More agreeing with you in a circular kind of way, then moving the topic back to an explanation of why I think what I do about titles (making them "fun" should be the goal).

Posted by: Reptilian Rob
That was the jest of what I was trying to convey, perhaps you misread my previous post.

Or perhaps you are only proving my point. I'll reply in depth later.


I also don't think a member should be able to see another members or even their own "Trust Rating". It holds no relevancy to me wether or not the people in this thread have built up a trust or not, since I'm not a moderator. It should only be visible to the moderation team since they are the only ones it actually pertains to.

I just think it's unfair to judge a person souly based on how often they post and their ban history. I know most of the Septagonians in here will stand up and say "But hey wait a minute, I only judge a person on what their post contains because I'm smart and trendy(lol)" but the sad fact of the matter is they are ranks with promotions to earn and all the negative effects they bring along.

  • 04.03.2009 12:00 PM PDT
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Posted by: Achronos
The trust rating already includes elements of game participation. I'm talking about making titles less about rankings and more about just labels. Right now, there is a hierarchy. What if there wasn't really a hierarchy. What if they were just labels that you got? The current idea that I fancy is that they'd be a user setting - there would be a set of titles that you can earn for various things, and then you'd go to your My Settings page and select which one you want to use. The prefix would still be done in the same way it is now, to differentiate a bit more. Not sure what I'd do about the bar colors, maybe they'd be earned too.

You guys think of the forum titles as a ranking system, but that's not how I see their purpose. I see it more for differentiating people on the forums, just like avatars.

Nothing really planned here, just thinking out loud.


I think it would be interesting if you could "pick" you title or w/e it would be. I guess it would sorta like the awards on Roosterteeth.com, except that you would be able to use them.

  • 04.03.2009 12:26 PM PDT
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Posted by: Geegs30
I don't know about the Mythic members, but the normals like me, yeah we get banned/warned pretty often :(

I like to try to be good, sometimes it just doesn't work out. And I hate myself for it

Hey! I havn't been banned in over a month!

  • 04.03.2009 12:34 PM PDT

There are many powers in the world, for good or for evil. Some are greater than I am. Against some I have not yet been measured. But my time is coming.

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Posted by: Achronos
making them "fun" should be the goal.
I guess, to me, the present sysitem is fun. Whenever there are"haves" and "have-nots," people get weird. Mostly, I believe this is because of people's inability to handle being in either category.

  • 04.03.2009 12:35 PM PDT

Tom Achronos
Bungie.net Overlord
twitter: http://twitter.com/Achronos

"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

You have a strange definition of "fun."

Posted by: Old Papa Rich
I guess, to me, the present sysitem is fun. Whenever there are"haves" and "have-nots," people get weird. Mostly, I believe this is because of people's inability to handle being in either category.

  • 04.03.2009 12:37 PM PDT

There are many powers in the world, for good or for evil. Some are greater than I am. Against some I have not yet been measured. But my time is coming.

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It's not that stange. What's fun is trying to understand. So far I'm a failing.

  • 04.03.2009 12:39 PM PDT

HATERS GONNA' HATE

I like the title bar system as it is. Unlike Xbox.com's Community User Level, which is largely post-count based, Bungie.net's system is based on activity, (not neccesarily post-count,) and a no-doubt very cleve algorithm that does not just works, it works best.

  • 04.03.2009 12:42 PM PDT