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  • Subject: Bad interpretation, or temporary irresponsibility.
Subject: Bad interpretation, or temporary irresponsibility.

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I think a mod acted unfortunately yesterday, but there isn't a lot I can do about it.

Suffice it to say -- anyone who thought the situation through would have locked the thread to begin with, rather than let it go to "make an example"...

Still, he didn't break the rules, but it was rather self serving, and I do believe he should have thought out his actions, especially his interpretations.

The thread was locked, finally -- but not before damage was done.

Still, it does need to be brought to attention. How ironic it would be if I were banned in retribution after saying something to the other effect in the other thread.



The banworthy<?> quote?
Halifax said "All soldiers willing to die for their country should be honored"
In my opinion, the thread should never have been let to go that far to begin with.

In order to make Halifax think about his actions Barron said:
You'd quickly turn your back on saying the soldiers in Hitler's Reich in WW2 were honorable people.

I'm not comparing out military to Hitler's, I respect out military. However, it is sometimes nice to consider what you are saying.




[Edited on 4/30/2005]

  • 04.30.2005 10:43 AM PDT
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That would have to be based on judgement. Though it wasn't intended to be political from the looks of it, it could turn political any second. It seemed that at the end, it was turning into a debate.

  • 04.30.2005 10:53 AM PDT

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They both ended it -- ironically, before the ban.

Any country, not only ours, remember that. They have people who believe in their cause as much as we believe in ours. Always remember for who, and for what, you are fighting, Halifax, or you'll end up no better than those German soldiers.

I'll refrain from posting in this thread any longer, it's getting too hot and is skirting on politics.


This wasn't about prevention, this was making an example.

  • 04.30.2005 11:00 AM PDT
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It all comes down to a question of definition, like so many other things in life.
Main Entry: po·lit·i·cal
Pronunciation: p&-'li-ti-k&l
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin politicus
1 a : of or relating to government, a government, or the conduct of (a) government

Posted by: GameJunkieJim
I think a mod acted unfortunately yesterday, but there isn't a lot I can do about it.
I and many other know that Shishka can be harsh at times, but he did warn everyone to the exact degree of his punishment.

Suffice it to say -- anyone who thought the situation through would have locked the thread to begin with, rather than let it go to "make an example"...The thread was perfectly legitimate by definition.

Still, he didn't break the rules, but it was rather self serving, and I do believe he should have thought out his actions, especially his interpretations. The rule breaking didn't come from the philosophical debate, it came from the political aspect of the debate. You'd have to ask Shishka to find out exactly why he thought it broke the rules. He doesn't owe an explanation to anyone but Barron though.

Still, it does need to be brought to attention. How ironic it would be if I were banned in retribution after saying something to the other effect in the other thread.Since when does a mod ban based on bringing up a topic that has to do with Bungie.net? Read the rules carefully. It does not say you cannot debate policy here.

The banworthy<?> quote?Based upon the definition, he did make it political.

End result, based on the definition of the word political, it turned political. The range of topics that are political in nature are impressive in numbers.

I do not takes sides on this matter. I merely wish to clear up definitions.

[Edited on 4/30/2005]

  • 04.30.2005 11:11 AM PDT
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I think it was just a momentary lapse of judgment to let a political thread stay open; several members made the assumptions that they could have some political discourse. Complacency implies legitimacy, even if a warning is appended.

It's unfortunate that some people were blacklisted. In the future I think we should avoid the "Let's see who gets snared, and put his severed head on a pike as a warning" approach, eh?

  • 04.30.2005 11:20 AM PDT

It was a cold day near the southern base in Blood Gulch. Cortana and I were relaxing over a game of Go Fish, WHEN OUT OF NO WHERE 700 BANSHEES CAME FLYING IN!!! I GRABED MY SPARTAN LASER AND LET HELL REIGN DOWN UPON THEM. I HOPPED IN THE NEAREST WARTHOG AND TOLD CORTANA TO GET IN.

Inviso

  • 04.30.2005 11:37 AM PDT

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Spelling Whiz -- based on that definition of political -- he definitely did NOT make it political -- in fact he skirted the issue closely but cleanly.

As I said earlier -- it's a rough interpretation, but it's not one that had to be dealt with in that way. Nor should it have been.

Since when does a mod ban based on bringing up a topic that has to do with Bungie.net? Read the rules carefully. It does not say you cannot debate policy here. I understand that -- but the rules weren't technically broken in Barron's case either -- in fact he steered well away of what it could have been. But interpretation of the rules holds more sway in the holder of the Unleash Ninjas button than in actual clear cut definition of the rules, at least in this case...


[Edited on 4/30/2005]

  • 04.30.2005 12:25 PM PDT
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It's quite sad to see 2 of Bnet's most liked and best posters/users treated like this, that's all I'll say.

  • 04.30.2005 1:31 PM PDT
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After reading that, I don't see why Shishka stopped at 2 bans......

  • 04.30.2005 1:53 PM PDT
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This blacklisting of two of the most respected and well known forum members shows how much this place has changed, regardless of whether rules have been broken or not. Thats all I'll say.

[Edited on 4/30/2005]

  • 04.30.2005 1:57 PM PDT
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Inviso.

  • 04.30.2005 1:57 PM PDT
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EDIT - Double post, my apologies.

[Edited on 4/30/2005]

  • 04.30.2005 1:58 PM PDT
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I'm not saying that i agree with the ban, however, there is very little to do about it. When a mod thinks it's heading the wrong way, he can pretty much start banning. However, 2 months(!) for these guys seems way to harsh, especially since the it isn't really sure if it was a political discussion or not. That ban has to decrease to maybe a week or so.
Also, 2 months for political discussion? If you ask me every case of banishment should be looked at independently.
Now i know that i am not a mod, and that Bungie makes the rules, and i respect that. But as spidey's uncle said: with great power comes great responsibility.

[Edited on 4/30/2005]

  • 04.30.2005 2:00 PM PDT

It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, not the lawyer, who has given us the right to a fair trial. And it is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves the flag, whose coffin is draped in the flag that allows the protester to burn the flag.Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC

Has the maker of that thread, i said to say ur opinion on the pics. They went off topic, and the mods closed my thread down. I dont think banning everyone who posted there would have been better. I agree that they should of just locked it, instead of banning those 2. I spoke with barron, and he apologized to me for messing up the thread. But u know u cant change a mods mind. I think they could have delt with the situation in a better way.

[Edited on 4/30/2005]

  • 04.30.2005 2:12 PM PDT
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In response to those who were talking about the social status of the two members who were banned, the mods don't play favourites (and quite rightly so), and the punishment might just have been exaggerated in order to demonstrate this.

  • 04.30.2005 2:14 PM PDT
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Posted by: Psyched
In response to those who were talking about the social status of the two members who were banned, the mods don't play favourites (and quite rightly so), and the punishment might just have been exaggerated in order to demonstrate this.


I don't care if it was banshee or anyone else.
I admit that examples should be made, And the fact that two more popular guys have been banned shows that the mods indeed don't play favorites.
But i am saying that the punsihment is too high, considering that some moron spamming the forums get banned for a week or so, but a semi-political discussion gets you two months.

Anyway, i rather not go too deep in this discussion since i don't want to step on anyone's toes.

  • 04.30.2005 2:23 PM PDT

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I think it was obvious (However pure the intentions were) that posting something like that was going to lead to something that was (obviously) interpreted as political by one person.

The responsible thing to do would have been to lock the thread -- with an explanation to Eagle5 that such things would provoke the wrong type of talk.

And as for showing favorites -- if he wasn't going to show favorites he should have banned everyone who toed the same line equally. It was a nice gesture Eagle -- but some people take things to heart, and sometimes the banning goes too far. He should have either banned everyone in that thread or no one.

  • 04.30.2005 2:52 PM PDT

Devil is Double is Deuce and Joker always trumps Deuce.

It should have been locked from the start, Shishka of all people should have known how that would turn out. And why are Shai and BB b-listed, while the creator of that thread gets away with it?

  • 04.30.2005 3:10 PM PDT
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Posted by: MCs Brother
It should have been locked from the start, Shishka of all people should have known how that would turn out. And why are Shai and BB b-listed, while the creator of that thread gets away with it?


He didn't get away with anything. Shiska beleieved his thread was okay at first, but not BB and Shai's comments.

  • 04.30.2005 3:22 PM PDT

It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, not the lawyer, who has given us the right to a fair trial. And it is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves the flag, whose coffin is draped in the flag that allows the protester to burn the flag.Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC

If u noticed Shiska was the first poster in thread. So if he thought there was gonna be a problem then he could have stopped the thread then.

I dont think it was a political disscussion between those to, just a slip of the tongue.

On the other hand the guy that said this
"Oh? Ask yourself this: What the hell are they fighting for, hmmm?

Freedom? A world without tyrants like Saddam? What the hell is freedom, anyway? What makes them heroes over people who decide not to pointlessly shoot and get shot? Hmph... Kill someone on the street, and you're a murderer. Kill someone in the heat of battle and you're a hero. Are our troops the good guys or the bad guys, and how can we even tell?! I'm sure that people who supported the -blam!-s in WWII viewed us as we view them.

War is the most pointless and disgusting thing ever invented by the humand mind."

THAT GUY WAS RIGHTFULLY BANNED

I think that we all can learn from this thread though.

  • 04.30.2005 4:02 PM PDT
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I swore an oath to myself yesterday that I wouldn't get involved in any forum discussion about this. It accomplishes nothing, and it's undermining to Shishka's authority, not that he has to give a damn, but it's still respectful not to question him unless you are the one who has been banned. But now, I've seen some silly things said, things that have been said because maybe the people in question are popular. In fact, that is the only reason this thread exists at all. Had this been any other two people, no one would have given a damn.Posted by: just another fan
But i am saying that the punsihment is too high, considering that some moron spamming the forums get banned for a week or so, but a semi-political discussion gets you two months.
Shishka said two months for anyone. Do go lightly is to not be a man of his word. He has to punish hard, or not at all.Posted by: MCs Brother
It should have been locked from the start, Shishka of all people should have known how that would turn out.
Posted by: GameJunkieJim
The responsible thing to do would have been to lock the thread -- with an explanation to Eagle5 that such things would provoke the wrong type of talk.
Shishka knew exactly where that thread was going, and he did the only responible and fair thing to do, he issued a warning that no political discussion would be tolerated in any way. You don't lock a post becuase you think it may turn ugly. If that was the case, the mods would have a reason to lock any post where someone said something stupid because they know somone will respond.

Those are the facts there. I'm not going to take sides on this issue either, if only because BansheeBarron has decided he doesn't want to bother Shishka with this. He has accepted his punishment even though he knows he was not trying to make it political. Maybe everyone else should just do the same and move on.

  • 04.30.2005 4:09 PM PDT

Ach! Was ist los?

Shishka banned Barron and Shai?

Might be work-related stress or something, but that seems a bit harsh to me. Why isn't he over in The Underground banning people who may actually deserve it?

  • 04.30.2005 4:15 PM PDT
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My friend, you would not tell with ſuch high zeſt
To children ardent for ſome deſperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum eſt
Pro patria mori.

Well... it *was* posted in The Flood rather than any of the more on-topic forums. It seemed a tad draconian to ban them both rather than simply shut the thread down. Then again Shishka did give warning.

[Edited on 4/30/2005]

  • 04.30.2005 4:23 PM PDT

This thread is directly attacking too many people, I'm locking it.

  • 04.30.2005 4:33 PM PDT