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Subject: For any complaints regarding Bungie's choice in new moderators...
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I can sympathize with both sides of the argument, but...

It is impossible to have the community vote on mods. Democracy won't work. For proof, just look at that council thread. Completely FUBAR. You need someone at the top deciding these things. Bungie employees themselves don't know the community very well, and thus the decision is left up to the mods. Technically, that's the way it should be.

The moderators will obviously choose someone they know, and they know well. I suppose playing WoW with them is one way of getting to know them. Unfortunately, we can't do anything about a moderator's flawed decision, so that's where I believe the feedback system (the Septagon) should come in. Telling us to stuff our complaints in the nearest trash receptacle is stupid, and completely unlike Bungie tradition. Bungie has always cared about their community, and what they think. Locking all of GJJ's threads was stupid too, in my opinion. He never actually broke any rules. It only succeeds in making the mods look cowardly, while I know most of them are not.

[Edited on 5/1/2005 by goweb]

  • 05.01.2005 9:30 AM PDT
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Posted by: Stickman Army
I can sympathize with both sides of the argument, but...

It is impossible to have the community vote on mods. Democracy won't work. For proof, just look at that council thread. Completely FUBAR. You need someone at the top deciding these things. Bungie employees themselves don't know the community very well, and thus the decision is left up to the mods. Technically, that's the way it should be.

The moderators will obviously choose someone they know, and they know well. I suppose playing WoW with them is one way of getting to know them. Unfortunately, we can't do anything about a moderator's flawed decision, so that's where I believe the feedback system (the Septagon) should come in. Telling us to stuff our complaints in the nearest trash receptacle is stupid, and completely unlike Bungie tradition. Bungie has always cared about their community, and what they think. Locking all of GJJ's threads was stupid too, in my opinion. He never actually broke any rules. It only succeeds in making the mods look cowardly, while I know most of them are not.


That was well explained. We can't vote ourselves because of what he said. We could easily pick a bad choice without knowing it.

I don't see why so many people complained, IMO.

  • 05.01.2005 9:47 AM PDT

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Posted by: Jeff McRae
Oh, one more thing. Isn't this a community? Right? The whole point of these forums are to get Bungie fans together in a safe, trusted community? Well then if that's the case then why not let us (the community) vote on such things as new moderators? Just a thought.

And turn the moderator's job into a popularity contest? Bad idea.

If mods are doing their jobs properly they must accept that their acts will be unpopular now and then. Having people shilling to be moderators would weaken this. Also, popular does not equal competant.

I don't know how the freedom of speech thing works in the States, but here in Canada, it works just fine. This is my opinion. I'm allowed to speak my mind, especially in a community in which allows us to.
Leave my home and native land out of this. I'm ashamed to see a fellow countryman resort to such a weak tactic; anyway, "freedom of speech" applies to government restrictions and has no bearing on a private venue such as bungie.net. Bungie mods are entirely within their rights to tell you to shut up if what you're saying violates the Terms of Service or the Code of Conduct. And your bellyaching isn't exactly working toward a "safe, trusted community" here.

You're not happy with the mod selection? Tough. Deal with it and quit with the whining.

-- Steve's of the opinion that this is Bungie's server; they call the shots here, not us. (And, looking around here, that's a Good Thing.)

  • 05.01.2005 10:04 AM PDT

Moap
Seven7Seven
Teh 1337ists
ChapterFounders
stosh says: You look like a young marty.
Thanks...I think....

Jeff I thought you were a smart guy,apparently I was mistaken,because nosefaratu is a good mod.And I have yet too see him make one mistake,and seeing as how this message board is 90% idiots,a vote would not be very trust worthy.And yes ok you are entitled to your opinion,but it is my opinion that you do not know what your talking about.

  • 05.01.2005 10:06 AM PDT
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Despite refering to himself in the third person :-) I have to agree with Anton P Nym. The mods are best chosen by Bungie and it is their website so freedom of speech is at their discretion.

About the blacklistings and certain moderator's decisions, I think we should all take deep breath and see what the real implications are. There are none. The blacklistings are only temporary and may even be reduced so it would be best to leave it alone before any permanant damage is done.

Edit: More or less what ^he^ said.



[Edited on 5/1/2005]

  • 05.01.2005 10:20 AM PDT

Veteran member of The Frozen Minority.

You guys have mistaken my whole poll on moderators thing. I meant it in the form that Bungie picks a few people, ones they'd like to see as mods. Then we get to vote on the ones in which they selected. Ah well. I'll give up on this whole shindig. There's no point in fighting over something that obviously has nothing to do with me. I forgot that I was dealing with suck ups. :-)

Oh, sorry you're ashamed of me.

[Edited on 5/1/2005]

  • 05.01.2005 10:32 AM PDT

Moap
Seven7Seven
Teh 1337ists
ChapterFounders
stosh says: You look like a young marty.
Thanks...I think....

So your saying anyone who is nice to the mods is a suckup? So being nice now comes to a price? You just can't be nice because you want to? Im sorry but now your acting like a moron,I am taking up for nosefaratu because he is a freind of mine,and I tend to be nice to my freinds,if you want to call it sucking up then so be it.

  • 05.01.2005 10:47 AM PDT
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Posted by: DownfieldGrim
So your saying anyone who is nice to the mods is a suckup? So being nice now comes to a price? You just can't be nice because you want to? Im sorry but now your acting like a moron,I am taking up for nosefaratu because he is a freind of mine,and I tend to be nice to my freinds,if you want to call it sucking up then so be it.

Jeff was fooling around when he said "suck-ups".
I also think that we really should drop the whole issue. Becoming a mod isn't some race, and if someone becomes a mod, he isn't a winner or anything.
Wether you like it or not, Bungie choses the mods, not the community.
I appreciate it that Jeff said that i would make an good mod, but to semi-quote a movie:
the mods are not people of the community, they are people FOR the community.

So what if Nos hasn't been around that long, or if his way of becoming a mod, is somewhat unusual. If he does a good job, than so be it. it's not our right to -blam!- about things until proven otherwise.

Let it go. all of you.

  • 05.01.2005 11:07 AM PDT

It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, not the lawyer, who has given us the right to a fair trial. And it is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves the flag, whose coffin is draped in the flag that allows the protester to burn the flag.Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC

there is a line between being nice and sucking up. I am sure most of us can tell a nice guy from a suck up.

  • 05.01.2005 11:30 AM PDT
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And turn the moderator's job into a popularity contest? Bad idea.

Whatever the case, it's going to be a popularity contest. The decision to elect new moderators is made by the existing ones.

  • 05.01.2005 11:49 AM PDT
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  • Elder Mythic Member

Wow, it is actually true, you're not allowed to have an opinion on here.

Anton, how exactly did Jeff make you feel ashamed to be Canadian? That's a really harsh thing to say dude when you don't even know the guy. And anyway, as long as it doesn't break the rules (which it doesn't), he's entitled to have his say. I don't have anything against Nos being a Mod (I don't give a damn who they pick, I hate the main forums here anyway), and neither does Jeff. He's a cool guy, and will do a great job. And let me add that we're not jealous of that either (people who say that are envious themselves, otherwise they wouldn't have said it). We play Halo 2 anyway in our spare time, forums are not our thing anymore. What I will say though is that I was surprised to hear that he got it, when there's more well known (and no disrespect to Nos) more well-deserving members of the community (2 names that spring to mind are Barron and GameJunkie). I know they love this place and the community here, and they're both excellent members.

I didn't even want to mention this here, but after the treatment Jeff got, I felt I had to.

Some of you guys are suck-ups as well (notice I said some, not all. DownfieldGrim for example has known Nos for a while now, so I don't mean people like him), and it's obvious from just reading this thread and your individual posts that the reason you do it is you're all hoping to be Moderators yourselves. You're trying to make Jeff look like the evil one here for your own personal gain and quite frankly, I find that disturbing. Bungie's middle name is community, we look after our own. But as soon as one speaks out, you're onto him and treating him like like an outcast. This whole situation is comparable to a modern-day witch hunt.

So to rap up, I've no problem with Nos being a mod. I wish you all the best dude, and your sure to become a well-respected member of the community here. I was just surprised to see that you got the job over Barron and GameJunkie, but I don't mean any disresepect to you by saying that (heck, I wouldn't have even posted this if it hadn't have been for the horrible way in which Jeff is getting treated).

  • 05.01.2005 11:54 AM PDT
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Posted by: just another fan
Let it go. all of you.

  • 05.01.2005 11:59 AM PDT

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OK OK! -- Hold the phone here everyone --

#1 - The mods do just a fine job 90% of the time. That includes Nos, by the way Jeff. He's been around just as long as I have, and he's been mostly responsible with his duties.

#2 - My threads were never meant to be an attack on the moderators -- I think many of you are missing the point. I was upset at Shishka's "Show of Power" and making an example of people that didn't break any rules. Word to the wise -- I don't have anything against Shishka either, just what he did there.

#3 - I don't want Barron and Shai's bans lifted - Shai deserved his, and I don't want Barron unbanned simply because he has popularity here. I would expect anyone regardless of Membership Tenure to be treated the same way -- Whether in punishments or in lifting irrational punishments.

I am very mad that Obbi turned my last thread into an attack against Nos, and Texas Ben for helping him. I am upset that Jeff is taking Nos' appointment like a personal affront, there's no need -- we used to all get along fine in the Jumpers Jeff, and while Nos is a little zealous at the wrong times, he hasn't done anything to you. The same should be said for any who would attack Jeff for venting -- two wrongs don't make a right.


Community... This is a community. These are people you know on the computer. People you play games with on LIVE. People who share your interests. Gossip about the same things you do. Equals.

Has everyone forgotten how to complain without turning it into a flamefest of personal attacks?

Shishka : I mean no personal affront -- I have issues with your method and brought it up in the appropriate forum. I still have issues against what you did, but the matter is dropped. I don't want to be responsible for the flaming of the relative authority figures here.

Nos : You're doing fine -- just try to follow the Code of Conduct a little closer when locking threads.

So people, please:

NO MORE FLAMING !!!
By flaming, you only make a bad situation much, much worse.

-Jim

P.S. I know I was supposed to be on hiatus -- but this was getting to be too much, I hear about it 15 times on XBL and when I sign onto a Messenger, grow up children. Play nice.

[Edited on 5/1/2005]

  • 05.01.2005 12:10 PM PDT
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Posted by: Shishka
...Please stuff them into the nearest trash receptacle.

Some of you seem to have forgotten whose website this is. We make the rules. We decide the moderators. You deal, or you go. That's all there is to it.


Totalitarianism is a brilliant way to cultivate the community. Can't you just feel the love Bungie has for us? ^_^

*hugs himself warmly*

Edit: And it's not like this has to be a complete democracy. Bungie could at least pretend that they care about what we think. Could they at least rebuke what we're complaining about instead of, for all we know, not even considering it? If their decision was good then shouldn't it be easy to rebuke the opinions to the contrary?

[Edited on 5/1/2005]

  • 05.01.2005 12:46 PM PDT
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Posted by: GameJunkieJim
OK OK! -- Hold the phone here everyone --

#1 - The mods do just a fine job 90% of the time. That includes Nos, by the way Jeff. He's been around just as long as I have, and he's been mostly responsible with his duties.

#2 - My threads were never meant to be an attack on the moderators -- I think many of you are missing the point. I was upset at Shishka's "Show of Power" and making an example of people that didn't break any rules. Word to the wise -- I don't have anything against Shishka either, just what he did there.

#3 - I don't want Barron and Shai's bans lifted - Shai deserved his, and I don't want Barron unbanned simply because he has popularity here. I would expect anyone regardless of Membership Tenure to be treated the same way -- Whether in punishments or in lifting irrational punishments.

I am very mad that Obbi turned my last thread into an attack against Nos, and Texas Ben for helping him. I am upset that Jeff is taking Nos' appointment like a personal affront, there's no need -- we used to all get along fine in the Jumpers Jeff, and while Nos is a little zealous at the wrong times, he hasn't done anything to you. The same should be said for any who would attack Jeff for venting -- two wrongs don't make a right.


Community... This is a community. These are people you know on the computer. People you play games with on LIVE. People who share your interests. Gossip about the same things you do. Equals.

Has everyone forgotten how to complain without turning it into a flamefest of personal attacks?

Shishka : I mean no personal affront -- I have issues with your method and brought it up in the appropriate forum. I still have issues against what you did, but the matter is dropped. I don't want to be responsible for the flaming of the relative authority figures here.

Nos : You're doing fine -- just try to follow the Code of Conduct a little closer when locking threads.

So people, please:

NO MORE FLAMING !!!
By flaming, you only make a bad situation much, much worse.

-Jim

P.S. I know I was supposed to be on hiatus -- but this was getting to be too much, I hear about it 15 times on XBL and when I sign onto a Messenger, grow up children. Play nice.


Yeah, you and Jay are both right, this is being taken way out of context...

  • 05.01.2005 1:08 PM PDT
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Posted by: Jeff McRae
Posted by: Pink Menace
People are complaining about the mod choice? Why?

I was complaining. There are a lot of people complaining about the choice. Why? I was complaining because there are a lot more people on these forums (Banshee Barron, Shai Hulud, GameJunkieJim, Rip Saw, mr.smiley, just another fan, VII Toast, et cetera) that would be better mods than Nos. People that are nicer, people who are wiser and people who don't ask to be a mod. Now I know you guys chose Nos for a reason. I'm just trying to figure that reason out...

Oh, one more thing. Isn't this a community? Right? The whole point of these forums are to get Bungie fans together in a safe, trusted community? Well then if that's the case then why not let us (the community) vote on such things as new moderators? Just a thought.

P.S: The people mentioned above have no idea I mentioned their names. I'm sorry to you guys for not asking for, but heck it needed to be said. These guys would make real mods. Not some guy who played WoW with Bungie staff. If this gets me banned, then that's not fair. I don't know how the freedom of speech thing works in the States, but here in Canada, it works just fine. This is my opinion. I'm allowed to speak my mind, especially in a community in which allows us to.

  • 05.01.2005 1:17 PM PDT
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Posted by: Pink Menace
People are complaining about the mod choice? Why?


Because Nos was off playing WoW while VII Toast was being extremely helpful, especially in the underground.

  • 05.01.2005 1:54 PM PDT
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--New official U.S. motto.

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Posted by: just another fan
I suppose it all has to with the recent incident, you know the banning of Shai and Banshee.


That was shishka, not nos.

  • 05.01.2005 1:54 PM PDT
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The United States of America-- STILL more rights than North Korea!
--New official U.S. motto.

Cronin's Law----The New Flood Drinking Game

Posted by: Jeff McRae
These guys would make real mods. Not some guy who played WoW with Bungie staff.


Well, in all fairness, the best choice for moderator would be VII Toast. Have you seen what he's been doing in the underground?

Not that nos isn't a good mod, but before he became moderator, he didn't really have any major presence here in the community. He was working a bit behind the scenes, but Toast was *definitely* doing more.

  • 05.01.2005 1:57 PM PDT
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The United States of America-- STILL more rights than North Korea!
--New official U.S. motto.

Cronin's Law----The New Flood Drinking Game

Posted by: GameJunkieJim
I am very mad that Obbi turned my last thread into an attack against Nos, and Texas Ben for helping him.

I did nothing of the sort.

  • 05.01.2005 2:00 PM PDT

It was a cold day near the southern base in Blood Gulch. Cortana and I were relaxing over a game of Go Fish, WHEN OUT OF NO WHERE 700 BANSHEES CAME FLYING IN!!! I GRABED MY SPARTAN LASER AND LET HELL REIGN DOWN UPON THEM. I HOPPED IN THE NEAREST WARTHOG AND TOLD CORTANA TO GET IN.

*Post-tacular!*

  • 05.01.2005 2:11 PM PDT
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Posted by: Texas Ben
Posted by: Pink Menace
People are complaining about the mod choice? Why?


Because Nos was off playing WoW while VII Toast was being extremely helpful, especially in the underground.


I don't like where this is going

Nos has been just as helpfull, maybe not in the underground, but he was there to support and help with things such as ACS and IRC. "Playing WoW" had little to do with it.

Now i'm not saying that he deserves it more than someone like VII toast, but he does derve it. If you want to complain, fine, but "attacks" sucj as this don't help the situation at all.
Other worthy members such as Rip Saw, VII toast and banshee will all get what they truly deserve some time. Nos simply got it a little earlier, and SO WHAT?

I'm not trying to suck up to the mods, nor do i seek to revolt against them. But the best thing to do right now is to let things go. And let time do the rest. I ask you all once again: let it go.


[Edited on 5/1/2005]

  • 05.01.2005 2:12 PM PDT
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Posted by: Jeff McRae
Posted by: Pink Menace
People are complaining about the mod choice? Why?

I was complaining. There are a lot of people complaining about the choice. Why? I was complaining because there are a lot more people on these forums (Banshee Barron, Shai Hulud, GameJunkieJim, Rip Saw, mr.smiley, just another fan, et cetera) that would be better mods than Nos. People that are nicer, people who are wiser and people who don't ask to be a mod. Now I know you guys chose Nos for a reason. I'm just trying to figure that reason out...

Oh, one more thing. Isn't this a community? Right? The whole point of these forums are to get Bungie fans together in a safe, trusted community? Well then if that's the case then why not let us (the community) vote on such things as new moderators? Just a thought.

P.S: The people mentioned above have no idea I mentioned their names. I'm sorry to you guys for not asking for, but heck it needed to be said. These guys would make real mods. Not some guy who played WoW with Bungie staff. If this gets me banned, then that's not fair. I don't know how the freedom of speech thing works in the States, but here in Canada, it works just fine. This is my opinion. I'm allowed to speak my mind, especially in a community in which allows us to.


You better run, i think the ban hammer is coming after you.

  • 05.01.2005 2:28 PM PDT

What's the deal with all this WoW pointing. If I recall correctly, I remember one or two of the guys being mentioned as better candidates to be a mod over Nos as being addicted to WoW as much as a $5 dollar New Orleans hore is to taking off her g-string. Nos is a good guy, and his being picked to be a mod after being at b.net for such a short time (it’s not really that short of a period if you remember when Mak was upgraded) should only show that he's that dedicated to the community. Isn't he the guy, or one of the main guys, behind the East Coast Bungie Fan Fest? That should count for something. And yeah, he’s already made a mistake, but Mak (sorry to keep picking on you Mak) made some mistakes when he was first picked: deleting two of my threads for no reason, sticking one of my threads for a week that had no reason to be stickied, sending me scans of... I’ll stop there:-P All that crap is merely part of the process of becoming a Bungie slave bot. So I think everyone needs to just sit back, relax, and watch THIS. Acting hastily while infatuated with unrestrained emotion only leads to unplanned wars and unplanned pregnancies;-)

- Eagle 117

  • 05.01.2005 2:33 PM PDT

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