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Subject: Mark 5 Battle Suit Upgrades
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Posted by: Draerden
Bullet Time is when you percieve that everything is moving slowly. It's a cinematic trick popularized by the matrix.

Yes, correct...percieve...as in perception...as in visual perception...as in "...marked visual perception." TFoR, pg 57
An accelerated neurological system (which I might add would be impossible for Cortana to accelerate since it involves a chemical exchance between dendrils and dendrites)
Apparently, she does just that:
The Fall of Reach, pg 252
"No. Cortana resides in the interface between your mind and the suit, Master Chief. You will find your reaction time greatly improved. She will be translating the impulses in your motor cortex directly into motion."

The Fall of Reach, pg 253
"Cortana resides 'between' your mind and the suit, interpreting the electro-chemical messages in your brain and transferring them to the suit via your nueral implant."

One significant by-product of this would be a severe Attention Defecit Disorder which would explain why Spartan Morale went down when they were on leave and they only felt alive while on a mission or in training.
True. Master Chief also makes note of how uncomfortable he feels when not in his armor:
[b]The Fall of Reach, pg 218
"Without it, he felt exposed somehow, like he'd left his quarters without his skin. He had grown used to the enhanced speed and strength, to his thoughts and action melding instantaneously."

  • 07.14.2004 9:46 AM PDT
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Posted by: Lunous
The upgrades are meant to make the Spartans' armor Mark VI suits...
It might sharpen the motion sensor, or give a zoom function so you don't need a gun with a scope to zoom... or boost your shields- read First Strike, it's got some info on what upgrades give what...

I always wondered why you couldn't use your helmet as a scope in the first game - didn't make sense...

  • 07.14.2004 9:49 AM PDT
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Posted by: johnconstantine
Apparently, she does just that:
The Fall of Reach, pg 252
"No. Cortana resides in the interface between your mind and the suit, Master Chief. You will find your reaction time greatly improved. She will be translating the impulses in your motor cortex directly into motion."

The Fall of Reach, pg 253
"Cortana resides 'between' your mind and the suit, interpreting the electro-chemical messages in your brain and transferring them to the suit via your nueral implant."

One significant by-product of this would be a severe Attention Defecit Disorder which would explain why Spartan Morale went down when they were on leave and they only felt alive while on a mission or in training.
True. Master Chief also makes note of how uncomfortable he feels when not in his armor:
The Fall of Reach, pg 218
"Without it, he felt exposed somehow, like he'd left his quarters without his skin. He had grown used to the enhanced speed and strength, to his thoughts and action melding instantaneously."


I'm going based on current neurological science. Accessing his motor cortex directly would do little to accelerate his perceptions and his cognitive ability. For that you would need either a psychotropic drug to accelerate transmission across the synaptic gaps or a network of nano-machines spread out across the neurons.

Now, interestingly enough, the Halo universe does not have4 nano-technology for whatever reason so the second is out.

  • 07.14.2004 9:57 AM PDT
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What Cortana and the suit do is speed up his muscles reaction time, not make it seem like eveything is moving slower. As soon as he thinks about doing something he does it instantely.

  • 07.14.2004 10:06 AM PDT
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Posted by: Draerden
I'm going based on current neurological science. Accessing his motor cortex directly would do little to accelerate his perceptions and his cognitive ability. For that you would need either a psychotropic drug to accelerate transmission across the synaptic gaps or a network of nano-machines spread out across the neurons.

I'm confused. Maybe I'm not understanding you but isn't that exactly how Cortanas nueral-acceleration is explained? It is explained as an electro-chemical acceleration which is very similar to the effects of a psychotropic drug.

Here is the explanation for his genetic increase in reaction-time:
The Fall of Reach, pg 57-58
5. Superconducting fibrication of nueral dendrites:
alteration of bioelectrical nerve transduction to shielded electronic transduction. Three hundred percent increase in subject reflexes.

Ok, I'll be honest. I'm not sure exactly what it means by 'shielded' - the rest I understand ok but not 'shielded'...

From what I understand, and correct me if I'm wrong, this is explaining a complete change from bioelectrical nerve impulses to just electrical nerve impulses, thus increasing the speed of synapsis.
Wouldn't this produce effects much similar to psychotropic drugs? This is an increase in the transmission between the synaptic gaps.


[Edited on 7/14/2004 10:27:07 AM]

  • 07.14.2004 10:26 AM PDT
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Bungie is probably making the sheilds a bit stronger in MP in order to solve the "3 shots to the head" problem. Because the new BR fires single bullets when zoomed, like it's pistol cousin, this would prevent players from complaining that the BR or pistol(if it even makes it) cheap.

  • 07.14.2004 10:38 AM PDT
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I seem to remember in one of the E3 videos, Staten (I think) saying that the Chief got an armor upgrade.

  • 07.14.2004 10:47 AM PDT
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Posted by: sgt ubergrunt
Bungie is probably making the sheilds a bit stronger in MP in order to solve the "3 shots to the head" problem. Because the new BR fires single bullets when zoomed, like it's pistol cousin, this would prevent players from complaining that the BR or pistol(if it even makes it) cheap.

Meh...I always play MP with no shields. One shot - one kill! That's the only way to go ; )

  • 07.14.2004 10:49 AM PDT
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  • Elder Mythic Member

At the end of First Strike, he's got his Mark V armour on with the upgrades. Sorry, I was wrong about the other fact!!

[Edited on 7/14/2004 12:46:25 PM]

  • 07.14.2004 11:11 AM PDT
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i think that this upgrade sucks because it will be easy!!!!!!!!

  • 07.14.2004 11:17 AM PDT
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Posted by: JAY132
At the end of First Strike, he's got his Mark V armour on with the upgrades. And at the start of the E3 2003 demo video, as he's walking down the slope to the medical tents, an Injured marine says "Hey look, a Mark V!" and the other one holding him up says "guess the brass do give a s-h-*-t!!"(that's what he says). Now why would he say a Mark V when he's supposed to now be a Mark VI??


I think the injured one just says "I must be seeing things" :\ i dont know

  • 07.14.2004 11:26 AM PDT
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I have a question relating to the neuroscience of a SPARTAN's upgrades... When a neuron is triggered, which takes the most time: the processing of the signal and the generation of the output charge or the process of transmitting the signal to the dentrites of the next neuron(s)? If it's the transmission that is the longest fraction of the total time... replacing the synaptic gap with superconducting fibers could result in a huge boost in processing speed (if it doesn't force the brain to cook in its own juices). To a SPARTAN viewing the world with a mind running four times faster, it would look like everything is moving through solidifying concrete. (Which would make for really boring gameplay...).

By the way, that Halo equivalent of an Incredible Cross Sections book sounds very cool indeed. It's something I'd buy if it was (legally) available.

  • 07.14.2004 11:28 AM PDT
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Constantine, in order for Cortana to directly accelerate John's neurological processes she'd need some mechanism beyond being tied into the Motor Cortext.

Now you've brought up a seperate point:

A human neural network is composed of many neurons that transmit electricity from one end of the neuron to the other through the Axon. At that point the dendrites emit chemicals that are picked up by other neurons, sometimes more then one and not always the same ones. It is the chemicals between the neurons that actually form the network and this network is expansive, altering itself all the time.

It is important that the dendrites be able to send out their chemicals in a "random" manner.

A psychotropic drug speeds this chemical process while simultaneously causing misfires which is why all sorts of strange thoughts, emotions and perceptions spring into being.

Now, assuming they somehow managed to replace the dendrites with an shielded electronic version without any nano-technology. (Wow!) Then you'd have a static system. The Spartans would not be able to form memories, nor learn anything new.

To accomplish this feat we'd first have to know a great deal more about the brain, then have the ability to create new "shielded" links on a whim and with what we know of the Halo universe, they don't have the technology to do that.

  • 07.14.2004 11:32 AM PDT
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Posted by: Fnord
I have a question relating to the neuroscience of a SPARTAN's upgrades... When a neuron is triggered, which takes the most time: the processing of the signal and the generation of the output charge or the process of transmitting the signal to the dentrites of the next neuron(s)?

?Good question. You keep coming up with these questions that stump me. I'm not exactly sure which takes the most time - there isn't nearly enough details to answer that, in the novels, that I'm aware of. Though it is mentioned that there is a marked increase in intelligence, memory, and creativity. Doesn't mention how much or go into specifics though...

By the way, that Halo equivalent of an Incredible Cross Sections book sounds very cool indeed. It's something I'd buy if it was (legally) available.
Yeah, however, I'm *far* from done. Remember those inconsistencies we were talking about? Nylund needs to explain those first or somehow fix them before that happens.

[rant]Lucky Star Wars fans got all kinds of books...[/rant]

  • 07.14.2004 11:51 AM PDT
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I see. Good explanation, Draerden.

  • 07.14.2004 11:55 AM PDT
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It's the transmission that takes up the most time. There is no "output charge" between neruons. The transmission is chemical. The electical pulse along the Axon moves at nearly the speed of light. The Dendrite creates the chemical, let's it go and then it floats over to the dendrites of the other neurons in the links.

  • 07.14.2004 11:56 AM PDT
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I n halo the flood the moniter mentions something about a suit 12 times stronger then his then

  • 07.14.2004 12:24 PM PDT
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Well, 'charge' wasn't the correct term, I was wrong. However there's more to the act of signaling across a chemical synapse then the neurotransmitters. When the neurotransmitters are 'docked' at the receptors on the other side of the synaptic gap, it opens ion channels in the membrane of the post-synaptic neuron. These charges flow in or out depending on the situation and change the transmembrane potential of the cell, which excites or inhibits the firing of the post-synaptic neuron in question (which one it does depends on the situation)

[Edited on 7/14/2004 12:49:37 PM]

  • 07.14.2004 12:40 PM PDT
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You've elevated your level of language I see.

You still need the ability to create new pathways and replacing them with superconductors would disable that ability. With nanomachines you could build new pathways but the Halo universe doesn't have them.

  • 07.14.2004 1:10 PM PDT
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Posted by: Draerden
You've elevated your level of language I see.


Just trying to redeem myself after making a silly statement like 'charge'.

I admit you're correct, the Halo universe really has no method for creating those superconducting fibers in vivo, which makes such a system essentially useless (unless it's only used in the nerves controlling skeletal muscles, in which case there would be an improvement in reflexes, but no boost in cognition).

From a neuroscience perspective however, if you did have a method for building these insulated fibers in vivo, in a fashion exactly replicating (but with a transmission speed four times greater than the original process) the chemical process with all of its network building subtlety, how would a person view the world? Would the world appear to be running at a fraction of the speed it appeared to before the procedure?

  • 07.14.2004 1:33 PM PDT

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