Halo: Combat Evolved Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: Question about Halo's story
  • Subject: Question about Halo's story
Subject: Question about Halo's story
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

So, on the level "Keyes" the Flood were trying to turn Capt. Keyes into a gravemind, I know, but why did they need him? What makes for a good gravemind candidate? Thanks.

  • 05.05.2009 7:05 PM PDT

I suspect it was part plot-buildup, partly because he had the information to Earth, and seemed like a leader.

The Flood requires a Gravemind to better itself. Without, they simply wallow around in mobs. With a Gravmind, they can be given specific tasks.

  • 05.05.2009 8:47 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Intrepid Mythic Member
  • gamertag: bob570
  • user homepage:

R.I.P. Halo 2
11/9/04 - 4/15/10

- B( )B

Probably because they saw him as the leader.

  • 05.05.2009 8:55 PM PDT

--Dear Father, I've been waiting, I've saved you a seat in hell
--I live to see death, destruction, over the light, but the light cannot be extinguished...
A More Complete Compendium of a Bungie History
-Thanatos 117

Random choice? Maybe so, maybe not. If not, I'd say he was chosen because of his smarts, his neural implants, his knowledge of Earth, and more of the like. I guess a great mind would make a great Gravemind.

  • 05.06.2009 4:26 AM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

When you consider that the flood is of hive mind, it is not too surprising that they would choose the greatest wealth of knowledge available to them as the begginings of another gravemind. I do agree that it more than likely has to do with scripting though.

  • 05.06.2009 3:54 PM PDT

I like my Covenant like i like my woman, screamin and with a sticky on there face.

While it did provide a part of the flowing story, the reasoning behind it probaly wasnt seen until halo 2 with the gravemind or even the book where the flood takes his thoughts, including how to get to earth and probaly how to fly the ships lol.

  • 05.06.2009 7:36 PM PDT

Oly Oly Oxen Free

He was the leader, he was resourceful and he was intelligent. Good criteria for the graveminds core, no? But then again, how would the flood know this?

  • 05.08.2009 4:59 AM PDT

When infecting a host, the Flood probes the nervous system of said host to gain a better understanding of how to use the body, almost like test-firing a weapon.

Likewise, the Flood then sift through the memories and thoughts of the host taking what they desire out of the subconsciousness. Information such as piloting a cruiser, using a weapon, coordinating a Slip-space jump, etc... can all be gleaned from a host whose mind holds said information. Because the Flood work as a collective, should the thought spread amongst them, it will become wide-spread, allowing even the newly infected to perform tasks such as driving a warthog.

With Keyes, the Proto-Gravemind had access to UNSC defense tactics, colony worlds, Fleet/troop deployment, and much more. Also worth noting is that while the Proto-Gravemind knew he had such information, the fact that Keyes willed himself not to share it made the Flood entity more determined to rip it out of him. Keyes instead used his neural lace to repeat his service number to the Gravemind, essentially stalling him as long as necessary.

[Edited on 05.08.2009 2:41 PM PDT]

  • 05.08.2009 2:41 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

As much as I respect and appreciate all of you having great insights into why..........I think you are giving too much credit to Bungie as to how much thought they put into that "why". In my mind, they had to wrap up that thread and the coolest thing to do was to turn Keyes into a Flood, made you feel like "oh crap if they got the captain I really have to shoot every one of those little buggers so they don't get me too!"

It was just a nice, tidy and simple way to wrap up his fate without spending alot of time explaining it.

  • 05.11.2009 1:11 PM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

Posted by: womyfts
As much as I respect and appreciate all of you having great insights into why..........I think you are giving too much credit to Bungie as to how much thought they put into that "why". In my mind, they had to wrap up that thread and the coolest thing to do was to turn Keyes into a Flood, made you feel like "oh crap if they got the captain I really have to shoot every one of those little buggers so they don't get me too!"

It was just a nice, tidy and simple way to wrap up his fate without spending alot of time explaining it.


I have to somewhat disagree with this, as Bungie had been working on Halo's story for more than 5 years before it was even picked up for consoles by MS. I'm pretty sure it was all part of the plan since the Halo univers is huge and has dozen of stories and threads and plot devices.

  • 05.11.2009 2:01 PM PDT

THE Skyhighatrist

http://h3customs.com/home.php

I wouldn't discredit Bungie's writing too much on this subject. Like the above poster said, the story has been in the making for quite a while (long before Halo:CE release). Its very probable that Bungie had the meaning of the scene extremely well thought out.

Or not....but thats why we're on these forums right?

  • 05.11.2009 5:40 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Posted by: Ninja2000
When infecting a host, the Flood probes the nervous system of said host to gain a better understanding of how to use the body, almost like test-firing a weapon.

Likewise, the Flood then sift through the memories and thoughts of the host taking what they desire out of the subconsciousness. Information such as piloting a cruiser, using a weapon, coordinating a Slip-space jump, etc... can all be gleaned from a host whose mind holds said information. Because the Flood work as a collective, should the thought spread amongst them, it will become wide-spread, allowing even the newly infected to perform tasks such as driving a warthog.

With Keyes, the Proto-Gravemind had access to UNSC defense tactics, colony worlds, Fleet/troop deployment, and much more. Also worth noting is that while the Proto-Gravemind knew he had such information, the fact that Keyes willed himself not to share it made the Flood entity more determined to rip it out of him. Keyes instead used his neural lace to repeat his service number to the Gravemind, essentially stalling him as long as necessary.


Yeah, they probably used Keyes because he was a smart dude. I guess the next question is, why was he not totally obsorbed into the blob that is the proto-gravemind? Was he added recently and therefore not entirely encased in the surrounding goop? That's my theory. Heh, before I knew about the graveminds, I thought it was just a plot hole, but now it makes more sense. Also, I think it's kinda cool how Keyes gets kidnapped twice and taken to the same ship both times, only by a different foe each time! Even that makes sense actually, because all the other ships in the covie fleet were ordered to stay away from the flood, but the Truth and Reconciliation was damaged and couldn't leave. I love how Bungie thinks things through! Brings a smile to my face. :)

  • 05.14.2009 10:58 AM PDT

"Once Bungie takes over the world, The Marty Army will take over Bungie and then we'll really have some fun."
-Marty O'Donnell

"Condemnant quod non intellegunt."

Make Bungie.net More Enjoyable: Read & Follow

His CNI had extremely sensitive information and would be a huge tactical advantage to an enemy. The question is obviously, how did the Flood know he was the leader?
I would tend to believe that they just saw the humans act as if he was their leader, or that they were being directly controlled by whatever Gravemind was possible there, but I've always felt as if it is something Bungie left out for mysterious effect.

Captain Keyes's death was as mysterious as tragic :(

  • 05.19.2009 7:25 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Posted by: paulmarv
His CNI had extremely sensitive information and would be a huge tactical advantage to an enemy. The question is obviously, how did the Flood know he was the leader?
I would tend to believe that they just saw the humans act as if he was their leader, or that they were being directly controlled by whatever Gravemind was possible there, but I've always felt as if it is something Bungie left out for mysterious effect.

Captain Keyes's death was as mysterious as tragic :(


It was also rather odd, seeing as how he was captured twice in the game and was taken the The Truth and Reconciliation each time. Only the second time, the chief was too late. Noooo!! Cappy!!!

  • 05.19.2009 10:36 PM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

One thing to keep in mind is that based on The Flood novel, the infection forms seem to peel back your memories after they infect you. In fact you don't even lose yourself entirely, not right away. The Flood (as an entity) would have had access to all of Keyes knowledge, and at the same time they would know the significance of such knowledge.

The fact that both times he was brought to Truth and Reconciliation is no surprise as it was the Covenant capitol ship at that time during the Halo engagement. The floods prescence is totally justified as they would be aware of the necessity of such a thing after taking over any of the Covenants races.

There is nothing random about The Flood, based solely on the Graveminds actions during Halo2 and 3 they are quite capable of planning, very far in advance. Not only that but reacting and adapting. Not at all a wonder that the Forerunners feared them the way that they did.

  • 05.20.2009 2:37 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Posted by: SweetTRIX
One thing to keep in mind is that based on The Flood novel, the infection forms seem to peel back your memories after they infect you. In fact you don't even lose yourself entirely, not right away. The Flood (as an entity) would have had access to all of Keyes knowledge, and at the same time they would know the significance of such knowledge.

The fact that both times he was brought to Truth and Reconciliation is no surprise as it was the Covenant capitol ship at that time during the Halo engagement. The floods prescence is totally justified as they would be aware of the necessity of such a thing after taking over any of the Covenants races.

There is nothing random about The Flood, based solely on the Graveminds actions during Halo2 and 3 they are quite capable of planning, very far in advance. Not only that but reacting and adapting. Not at all a wonder that the Forerunners feared them the way that they did.


Oh, it makes perfect sense about the whole Keyes thing, I know, I just find it ironic. I'm not sure why. O_o

  • 05.20.2009 6:53 PM PDT