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Subject: Engineers turning the tide of war in human favour.
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Hi all,

After much speculation about which covenant species will 'side' with the humans or which covenant will differ from the covenant as a whole, I believe that there is very good piece of evidence right under our noses, that up until now ( I forgive anyone who may have posted this) doesn't seemed to have made as big an impact to our theories.

Towards the end of First strike (the book) - after the masterchief watches admiral stanforth go up in a nuclear inferno along with the Unyeilding Heirophant, MC and the other spartans head to Earth.

In the ship that they return to Earth in are no less than 2,000 COVENANT engineers.....

we all know this right.....

But its when they get back to Earth, and the Engineers give a hand to the ONI technicians that I am wondering what we can expect?

I mean those little dudes would know a helluva lot of Covie secrets and provide the struggling human forces with at least - a technological understanding of Forerunner facilites and weaponry, artificial gravity generation ( as seen in the covie ships) ...........
and well, the list would go on I would imagine.

I would appreciate if anyone would share what they think of this.

also, my apologies on my not quoting a whole heap of First strike text, but I am pretty sure that I got what needs to be said across.

  • 07.15.2004 7:24 AM PDT
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pg. 327 First Strike

He pushed the accerleration stripe to full velocity and the dropship entered a high orbit around the spoltchy moon, arching around to the far side, where the battered Gettysburg waited for them.
But only the Gettesburg...
"Where's the Ascedanct Justice" John whispered.

They brought back the Human ship to earth, not the covenant one.

  • 07.15.2004 7:36 AM PDT
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right. the engineers were on the ascendant justice not the gettysburg.

  • 07.15.2004 7:38 AM PDT
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wrong - read after what you have just quoted.

sgt johnson and the other crew had rounded up all the engineers ( or those that were alive) and put them aboard the HUMAN ship.

read it.

  • 07.15.2004 7:42 AM PDT
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I don't see it at all....

  • 07.15.2004 7:55 AM PDT
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Found it, good eyes young man, I would have never even noticed the fact...

  • 07.15.2004 7:58 AM PDT
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The elevator doors opened, and Sergeant Johnson stepped onto the bridge.
"Got all those Covenant Engineers rounded up on B-Deck," Sergeant Johnson announced, "Slippery suckers."
The Chief nodded.


That was on page 335.

[Edited on 7/15/2004 8:03:28 AM]

  • 07.15.2004 8:03 AM PDT
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thanks for the kudo's Vel. I am glad someone else saw it as well - I was starting to think that sitting up until 3am everynight of this forum was making my brain go gooey! 8 )

so what do you think it could mean to the story line?

I think that it would better equip the humans, adn the chief with better tactical data on the covenant. or at least give our weapons a slight bump up.

it would sorta fit in well with the flow of the game as we know it so far , in that , You as the masterchief have still many enemies to battle (with better AI of course) but its a more even playing field.

  • 07.15.2004 8:04 AM PDT
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They really need to get as much help and info as possible out of them now, because the ONI spooks will want to kill some, study some, and not put them to good use...

But if the spooks were really smart, they would actually accept their help...

[Edited on 7/15/2004 8:07:36 AM]

  • 07.15.2004 8:06 AM PDT
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if memory serves me correctly - one of the ONI spooks that was with the chief in first strike mentioned that the ONI 'eggheads' and the engineers would get along swimmingly, and that they would have alot to talk about when they get back to Earth.

it may not have been the oni DUDE onboard with the chief, but I am pretty sure it was.


[Edited on 7/15/2004 8:10:41 AM]

  • 07.15.2004 8:10 AM PDT
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Considering how small the time frame between the end of Halo and the Convenant attack on Earth seems to be, will the humans have any time to actually make use of these Covenant/Forerunner secrets and build useful weapons from them? If human manufacturing is still similar to our own (which it seems to be, since there doesn't seem to be much nanotechnology in Halo) then the humans would be caught by the Covenant with all the important design secrets they could ever need... but no finished, tangible products to defend the planet with.(Unless those plasma cannons can be whipped up with standard, off the shelf parts...)

  • 07.15.2004 8:10 AM PDT
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could this be the way we finally make it to the covenant home world?

  • 07.15.2004 8:12 AM PDT
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Sergeant Johnson said that, and nobody can predict ONI.

  • 07.15.2004 8:13 AM PDT
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That's true but, if you know how something works you know how to counter it and how it will not work. If ONI knew exactly how the Covenant ships worked they could think of a way to bypass the sheilds and deliver a nuke. But good idea, Engineers are only interested in Prophets and Forerunner technology, and if the Engineer that fixed the MC suit is any kind of example, the Engineers would be very interested in us.

  • 07.15.2004 8:17 AM PDT
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I think you are looking at this wrong. I think that the covie engineers would be better suited to REPAIR. Now listen to this arguement, they can repair human ships, weapons, and the like, but when they repair them they would inadvertainly add on anything that would improve the weapon. Like the MAC guns firing superconducted plasma.

And also, you have to look at how hard it would be to communicate with the engineers long enough to get blueprints drawn up, find out what materials are needed...

  • 07.15.2004 8:17 AM PDT
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well - seeing as cortana will most likely have enough time to dump the halo data and process it - that and the info she gained from operating the accendant justice (using covenant slipspace and weaponry ANd refining it to be more precise) then I'd say that there could be a possibilty.

I would say that in the Halo universe that nanotechnology would be in use, as I'd imagine it quite hard to create efficient nueral-laces ( the chips in the UNSC marines heads) without nano-technology. The hosts DNA would reject the chip, whether bio-organic or just plain surgically installed.

Sure Nano-technology is amazing........but dude, do you have to use it in all your forum posts as a method of refutation?

just kidding ; p

good thinking though - I dont think there will be any time to get help from the engineers at the start of the game - as in one of the videos of Halo 2 shows the chief unexpectantly rock up to Earth . Its the video where he jumps out into space over the covie cruiser.

  • 07.15.2004 8:19 AM PDT
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Cortana found out how to commicate with the egineers, I'm sure it'll be pretty easy for a Smart AI to make a blueprint. And we could make the Covenants Tech. better. Like Master Cheif's sheild and the Plasma turrets on the Adcendant Justice.

  • 07.15.2004 8:21 AM PDT
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Posted by: The MasterChief8

Sure Nano-technology is amazing........but dude, do you have to use it in all your forum posts as a method of refutation?

just kidding ; p


I was just saying that because they don't have any of the really fancy manufacturing nanotechnology, they'll be building things more or less in the traditional way... by welding together giant chunks of metal (Though, I probably should ease up on the nanotechnology references, I could start to sound like a broken record.) . That's a fairly slow process when you're talking about building/modifiying massive human ships. So, even if the Engineers and Cortana's data are immediately useful, there probably won't be much built by the time the Covenant arrive at Earth. Of course, if the Covenant don't conquer Earth in the first attempt, they're going to be in trouble when the improved human warships start coming off the line.

  • 07.15.2004 8:28 AM PDT
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I totally agree with you though.

if the humans exploited the possibilities on nano-technology, then they would be alot better off for it.

and, totally right man, it would take them at least a half-year or a year to get enough of a force to make a real stand with their new technologies.

Maybe not though - maybe its got nothing to do with the IMMEDIATE benefits, but perhaps something they know of the forerunner.

however, your guess is a good as mine in regard to that.

  • 07.15.2004 8:36 AM PDT
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Actually, there is a 'loose' example of nano-tech (superconducting nano-assemblage) on the bottom of pg 235 of TFoR.

On-topic - while the Engineers would be handy, I think Cortanas experience with the Ascendant Justice will be alot more useful.

  • 07.15.2004 8:39 AM PDT
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Lol Fnord that last sentence made me laugh, but it is true, bur 2000 engineers may not be enough to make that many warships in time, but maybe if Cortana communicated with some, then they could learn where the covies homeworld are, and where the engineers come from, and we can go get a bunch more. And they could make slipspace travel on human ships alot more accurate.

[Edited on 7/15/2004 8:45:39 AM]

  • 07.15.2004 8:44 AM PDT
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Posted by: The MasterChief8
IMaybe not though - maybe its got nothing to do with the IMMEDIATE benefits, but perhaps something they know of the forerunner.

however, your guess is a good as mine in regard to that.


That's true, in the Covenant the Engineers are responsible for repairing and unlocking Forerunner technology, aren't they? With a shipload of Engineers waiting, humans would be able to immediately put any artifact they should happen to find on Earth into use. (I'm willing to bet there's an artifact of extreme importance on Earth, hense the Covenant's reluctance to glass it even to the partial degree they did to Reach)

I don't have the Fall of Reach on hand at the moment, but I do recall that, that nano-assemblage is the processing/memory system for AIs, isn't it? That's some fairly advanced nanotechnology... but I haven't heard of any in the Halo universe for manufacturing heavy industrial products (but then again, it's never really been said how humans build their ships.)

  • 07.15.2004 8:46 AM PDT
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Hmmmm, I just had a thought. I wonder what would've happened if Halsey had given the FR space/time artifact to one of the Engineers? I wonder how the crystal could be incorporated into a slipspace drive...
I'm betting in the next book, the Covenant are going to somehow utilize the shards they found.

  • 07.15.2004 8:57 AM PDT
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I suppose it depends on how much creativity the Engineers have. Would an Engineer have tried to incorperate the crystal into the ship's slipspace drive, or would it have tried to cart it off to a Prophet for further study?

  • 07.15.2004 9:14 AM PDT
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hmm.......good point too.

I wonder if their alliance with the covenant is that of a pure hearted nature, to find their spiritual truth's through reverse-engineering the Forerunner tech to get closer to their idols/gods.

they seemed like cute, dilligent and chirpy little critters.

so maybe they dont like the whole conquer and divide nature of the Covenant, and maybe they'll like us?

bit of a stupid thing to say really, but hey, still too much time in between now and halo 2, gotta kill the time somehow

  • 07.15.2004 9:21 AM PDT

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