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Subject: The Forerunner Survived to Reproduce?

I figured I'd throw this quote into the Humans = Forerunners debate. This isn't to prove or disprove anything; rather, it's more of a question for you guys. What are your thoughts on this?

[color=white]"The installation was specifically built to study and contain the Flood.[/color] [color=red]Their[/color] [color=white]survival as a race was dependent upon it. I am grateful to see that[/color] [color=red]some of them survived to reproduce."[/color] [color=white](343 GS in the Library)[/color]


Who is the race that's dependended on the Flood being contained on Halo in order to survive? It's certainly not the Flood, is it? Say it to yourself: "The Flood depend on a seperate race to capture them, contain them, and controll them in order to survive." Doesn't exactly sound like the Flood we all encounter in the game.

I think many people have read this quote and just assume that "their," in the second sentence, is referring to the Flood, but why would the Flood need to be contained in order to survive. Containing the Flood is how the Forerunners hoped to study, control, and ultimatly, eradicate the Flood from this galaxy. Another thing, as some have already pointed out, 343 GS usually refers to the Flood as "The Flood," and [color=red]never[/color] refers to the Forerunners as "the Forerunners". 343 GS usually uses pronouns and adjectives when referring to the Forerunners. Why? Well, 343 never uses Forerunner (which is only what we call them, and not their real identity) because he may think that the MC is a Forerunner. Also, it's a great ploy by Bungie in which the true racial identity of the Forerunners is kept a secret from all of us theorist in the forums. So, "their" may not be referring to the Flood, but to those who built the Halos... the Forerunners.

Taking this into account, why would 343 GS tell the MC that he is [color=white]"grateful to see that[/color] [color=red]some of them survived to reproduce"[/color]? Is 343 GS is making a direct connection between the MC and the Forerunner race here? I'm sure that some of you have thoughts on this. Let me know what they are:)


-Eagle 117



[Edited on 10/25/2004 7:55:21 AM]

  • 07.15.2004 11:06 AM PDT
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Good Idea I never thouht of it that way. I did feel their was somthing fishy about that statement but never really took time to come up with a conclusion. Good work

The Duke

  • 07.15.2004 11:09 AM PDT
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You always amaze me with the way you back things up. I still don't believe that humans are the forerunner, perhaps just very similar genetic offshoots.

  • 07.15.2004 11:12 AM PDT
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Posted by: Eagle 117
I figured I'd throw this quote into the Humans = Forerunners debate.

[color=white]"The installation was specifically built to study and contain the Flood.[/color] [color=red]Their[/color] [color=white]survival as a race was dependent upon it. I am grateful to see that[/color] [color=red]some of them survived to reproduce."[/color] [color=yellow](343 GS in the Library)[/color]


He could mean that the Flood need to be contained in order for them to survive because if they did get out they could exhaust their food supply and die out.

  • 07.15.2004 11:12 AM PDT
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I think that guilty spark was refering to the flood when he said "their", but htis might just change my mind. Good ear.

  • 07.15.2004 11:14 AM PDT

Posted by: Kamizar
He could mean that the Flood need to be contained in order for them to survive because if they did get out they could exhaust their food supply and die out.


The only problem is that the Flood is not a race, it is a virus... look at the Flood caracteristics.

  • 07.15.2004 11:15 AM PDT
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well if you're gonna call the Flood a virus you could call us(humans) a virus too look at are characteristics we mostly care only about our reproduction and self enjoyment we're mostly bad at birth and we spread like a wild fire.

and i consider the Flood a race and a virus at the same time

[Edited on 7/15/2004 11:19:16 AM]

  • 07.15.2004 11:17 AM PDT
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When you use a possessive pronoun in a sentence it refers to the last proper noun used in the paragraph.

  • 07.15.2004 11:19 AM PDT
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If the forerunners evolved on earth then all life was wiped out by the halos and then we evolved on earth the exact same way the forerunners did we would be the same race that had to just completely start over. None of them would have had to survive for that to happen.

  • 07.15.2004 11:19 AM PDT

SB-117

Posted by: Kamizar
well if you're gonna call the Flood a virus you could call us(humans) a virus too look at are characteristics we mostly care only about our reproduction and self enjoyment we're mostly bad at birth and we spread like a wild fire.


That applies to any animal too. The only reason others dont spread as much is because they are eaten by predators or they cant travel like we do (ie like across oceans).

  • 07.15.2004 11:20 AM PDT
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I don't think that the flood reproduce. I don't know what they do, but I can't imagine them reproducing.

  • 07.15.2004 11:21 AM PDT

Here is the quote that demonstrates how the Flood is possibly an infection/virus, and not a race:

[color=white]"You can see how the body's been transformed by the genetic restructuring of the Flood infection."[/color] [color=yellow](343 GS in the Library)[/color]

Unlike Humans or the Covenant, the Flood has no distinct attributes. Remember, the Flood's not eating other species to survive; but rather, it infects other species, and inturn, it survives by passing itself (Flood infection) on to other host.

[Edited on 7/15/2004 11:25:56 AM]

  • 07.15.2004 11:23 AM PDT
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The Flood could be an a-blam!-ly reproducing race with virus like tendencies.

  • 07.15.2004 11:23 AM PDT
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The Flood reproduce by infecting the host body with spores, normally delivered via the infections forms. These spores first alter themselves to match the specific neural patterns of their host (which is why the Sargent was immune) and then slowly begin changing the host body into the required Flood form.

Little seems to actually known about how the Flood chooses what forms it needs. I personally believe that the Flood create forms as needed to perform specific roles, such as the Keyes form which seemed to be a computer/command&control center for the Covenant ship the Flood were repairing. Who knows, by the time they would have repaired the Covenant ship it might have been half composed of Flood material.

  • 07.15.2004 11:26 AM PDT

Thats it! Goddamn it!!! EAGLE 117 FOR PRESIDENT!!!

  • 07.15.2004 11:26 AM PDT

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I think the flood counts as a separate race, the Forerunner more likely would have kept them there to preserve them for study. I think the thougt processes are all about to catch up with each other, but not yet. Eagle, grab my notes from Wrath, and send me yours. Our theories are similar, but conflict on some minor issues. The Flood is separate, 343 GS seems to be very proper in his vernacular, which may open up somethings for interpretation, but not a fragment like "Their survival..." In this I believe he could only have been talking about the flood. I think that there is no connection (genetically or otherwise) betwwen the flood and Forerunner. It wouldn't make sense, if there were, Flood would have decimated the entire galaxy eons ago.

Wra7hOfAchilles has some of my notes, I'd give them to you but I don't have time. I have to go to work now...

-JIM

  • 07.15.2004 11:30 AM PDT
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Posted by: Deidg Nactal
Thats it! Goddamn it!!! EAGLE 117 FOR PRESIDENT!!!

I Agree

Posted By: Kamizar
well if you're gonna call the Flood a virus you could call us(humans) a virus too look at are characteristics we mostly care only about our reproduction and self enjoyment we're mostly bad at birth and we spread like a wild fire.

and i consider the Flood a race and a virus at the same time


Im honestly not trying to be mean, but i think you need to go back and play those flood levels over again, a can distinctly see where the flood has infected a human or an elite, and the big ones that blow up, by the books meaning i think, are ones that have "died", so the flood infection brings them back as a carrier with all sorts of little guys in them just waiting to jump out.

  • 07.15.2004 11:35 AM PDT
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Posted by: GameJunkieJim
I think the flood counts as a separate race, the Forerunner more likely would have kept them there to preserve them for study. I think the thougt processes are all about to catch up with each other, but not yet. Eagle, grab my notes from Wrath, and send me yours. Our theories are similar, but conflict on some minor issues. The Flood is separate, 343 GS seems to be very proper in his vernacular, which may open up somethings for interpretation, but not a fragment like "Their survival..." In this I believe he could only have been talking about the flood. I think that there is no connection (genetically or otherwise) betwwen the flood and Forerunner. It wouldn't make sense, if there were, Flood would have decimated the entire galaxy eons ago.

Wra7hOfAchilles has some of my notes, I'd give them to you but I don't have time. I have to go to work now...

-JIM


Why would 343GS be surprised that the flood survived, he wouldnt. I agree with Eagle 117 that he was directly talking to MC saying that he was surprised that some of the forerunners(humans) survived. And notice in the maw as eagle has pointed out, 343GS says "Human History is it? Fascinating..." Here he noticed where we changed our name.

Anyways thats what i think
peace

  • 07.15.2004 11:39 AM PDT
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It also wouldn't surprise me that GS didn't specifically say "the forerunners" because Guilty Spark always talks to MC like he should know this stuff, am I right? Even nicer job, 117, bravo.

[Edited on 7/15/2004 11:51:09 AM]

  • 07.15.2004 11:50 AM PDT

Me: "OMFG, Dude... wtf!"
AbolitionofMan: "I'm sorry, I didn't mean to betray you."
Me: "That's the 4th time in this game alone!"
Chris: "Third, besides he had the flag I was trying to stop him, how was I supposed to know you were there."
Me: "I said, 'I got the Flag, don't shoot.'"
Chris: "Well those Wraith shots take a while to reach you."
Me: "You were right next to me, I had killed him and a minute passed before you decided to shoot."
Chris: "Hahahahaha, yeah... that was great."

Posted by: Raiden2006
And notice in the maw as eagle has pointed out, 343GS says "Human History is it? Fascinating..." Here he noticed where we changed our name.

Anyways thats what i think
peace


Well, he never says the word Forerunner either in the game or the books IIRC, (please correct me if I am wrong), so him using the term 'Human' is something he picked up but what he may have called the Forerunner is unknown. He uses pronouns and adjectives to describe the Forerunner.

Achilles

  • 07.15.2004 11:51 AM PDT
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Posted by: Wra7hofAchilles
Posted by: Raiden2006
And notice in the maw as eagle has pointed out, 343GS says "Human History is it? Fascinating..." Here he noticed where we changed our name.

Anyways thats what i think
peace


Well, he never says the word Forerunner either in the game or the books IIRC, (please correct me if I am wrong), so him using the term 'Human' is something he picked up but what he may have called the Forerunner is unknown. He uses pronouns and adjectives to describe the Forerunner.

Achilles

See the above post to answer your question about GS and saying forerunners.

  • 07.15.2004 11:52 AM PDT

Posted by: Wra7hofAchilles
He uses pronouns and adjectives to describe the Forerunner.


You beat me to it:)

  • 07.15.2004 11:54 AM PDT

Me: "OMFG, Dude... wtf!"
AbolitionofMan: "I'm sorry, I didn't mean to betray you."
Me: "That's the 4th time in this game alone!"
Chris: "Third, besides he had the flag I was trying to stop him, how was I supposed to know you were there."
Me: "I said, 'I got the Flag, don't shoot.'"
Chris: "Well those Wraith shots take a while to reach you."
Me: "You were right next to me, I had killed him and a minute passed before you decided to shoot."
Chris: "Hahahahaha, yeah... that was great."

Posted by: sgt ubergrunt
See the above post to answer your question about GS and saying forerunners.


I wasn't asking a question. I was making a statement.

Achilles

  • 07.15.2004 11:55 AM PDT
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There are no irrelevant quotes of historical figures here. Neither will you find any links, chain posts, memes, clan advertisements, self-promotions, or the tiniest of ASCII pictures.

So go away.

"The installation was specifically built to study and contain the Flood. Their survival as a race was dependent upon it. I am grateful to see that some of them survived to reproduce." (343 GS in the Library)

"Their" refers to the Forerunners, because if the Flood got out, it'd be like releasing smallpox today - mass plagues and death, plus zombies to boot.

And he is "grateful to see that some of them" (now refering to the Flood) survived because, as he says, he and the installation were built, "specifically to study and contain the Flood." So, if there's no Flood, he is obsolete.

I gotta give you props for imagination, but Eagle 117, you're going out of your way to find insane ways to interpret things at this point.

  • 07.15.2004 11:55 AM PDT
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Ahhhh by george i got it

He never called the forerunners the forerunners because that wasnt their name back then, plus this is the first human/(fore) that he's seen in ages, now in the maw he realizes that we call ourselves human

  • 07.15.2004 11:55 AM PDT

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