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This topic has moved here: Subject: The Precursor, The Flood, and the Acceleration of Evolution (V2)
  • Subject: The Precursor, The Flood, and the Acceleration of Evolution (V2)
Subject: The Precursor, The Flood, and the Acceleration of Evolution (V2)
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: LongMasterWolf
I agree to that as well, but clearly they are not the next evolutionary step if they do not possess technology, for that is what created them and what in the end defeats them.

I never believed that they were the next evolutionary step, but they could possibly be the next social step. Complete communism, in a way. Real communism, actually.

  • 06.23.2009 9:30 PM PDT

Posted by: Lord Snakie
I never believed that they were the next evolutionary step, but they could possibly be the next social step. Complete communism, in a way. Real communism, actually.

Yeah the complete form of Utilitarian Communism.

  • 06.23.2009 9:41 PM PDT

Twelve Large ²

An army of sheep led by a lion would defeat an army of lions led by a sheep.

Posted by: Lord Snakie
Further Explanations and Side-Theories:

While on the subject of Gravemind, let us return to the implications of this theory. The Gravemind was a catalog, and the Precursor were a species hell-bent on preserving life, just like the Forerunner. The Forerunner cataloged races, what's to say the Precursor didn't? What if they cataloged these races inside the Gravemind construct, and he is re-creating long-dead races whose blueprints he has stored permanently in memory to serve the collective that exterminated them? It raises questions on just how "personal" infection is. If a single entity is infected, could multiples of that entity's species be created by the Flood all over the universe to serve them?


I believe the Flood is simply a destroyer slash self destructive mofo more than anything else. I don't see the Flood preserving anything.. Unless.. Preserving something becomes a necessary means to an end. Key word - END. I like to look at the Flood as a necessary evil. Kind of like a friend of a friend, but not really. I guess it depends on who your friends are.

p.s. Why were the Precursors, in your mind, so afraid of death? Perhaps they reached a point where death was a road less traveled, and became curious? Who knows? All I know is what mom told me. It's easier to solve a maze by going backwards. Jumping to the Precursors, and going forward, well.. All roads lead to.. Try Again.

Posted by: Lord Snakie

The Flood, an Experiment?:

The Precursor had the ability to accelerate evolution... what if they accelerated and manipulated the evolution of a parasitic species until they created not a weapon, but a municipal service?

Think about it- the Precursors were trans-sentient beings, deaths among them must be rare. Even so, death probably did occur, and that death would be a finality; everything that Precursor knew was gone, and over the span of its life it likely had revolutionary ideas that could help all of the Precursors, or at least memories or though processes that would be worth accessing. So, over time, Precursor genetic manipulators accelerated and enhanced the evolution of a biological species until they created a self-sustaining storage system that could reclaim the memories of the Precursor even after death. Infection forms roam about the streets of Precursor cities, seeking out the locations of any dead Precursors. When they took over a deceased's body, the information of that dead Precursor was transferred to the central Gravemind (keep that in mind: [b]Grave
- Mind. Mind of the grave) and all the other Precursors would be able to access it later. Since the corpses could be used to replenish the Gravemind with necessary flesh or be used to create more infection forms, it was a self-sustaining system. The Precursors would need not ever go without the memories and knowledge of their deceased ever again, and no longer would the dead bodies need to be put anywhere but the self-sustaining Flood memory retrieval system.

The Gravemind was likely not sentient at first, more like the central, living archive of all this information. When he became cognitive and sentient and realized that he was being used, he could have used the accumulated knowledge and forms that he had at his disposal to attack and destroy the Precursor in a massive, destructive surprise attack.

Think about this. If this is true, it means that the first Gravemind did not only possess an abundance of Precursor intelligence, it was created by the Precursor, made out of Precursors, and meant to absorb their intelligence. The Precursor in this situation would not only have made the beasts that killed them, they would have willingly done it, thinking in their arrogance and power that they were infallible. Not only would the Precursor have passed down their mantle to the Forerunner, they would be the very ones who began the cycle that caused the Forerunner and Humanity to be forced to take up that mantle.


It's a thought - Been playing with fire for who knows how long (since fire existed, I'd imagine), and finally got burned for realz? Bummer.

Here's my question.. Even if your theory was truth, and your Flood took hold of something as Large as The Precursors, then how did everything else, in due time, including your Flood, end up under lock and chain in the Halo universe? Who, or what, exactly, was placed under Quarantine? Humans? Covenant? AI? Flood? All of 'em? Cause all roads, in this bungie galaxy, eventually lead to Halos - So many simulated activations, and one actual. If you think about it, that could be one tough cookie to break. It sure would suck to fire 'em off, only to end up back where you started, to do it all over again. Then again, that would be one Hell of a Quarantine Zone.

Go back..


You, as the Master Chief 117, arrive at this Halo with ships, ai, and enemies.. Was it expected? Did anything, or anyone, know that this time would eventually come about? Were they well prepared?

If I was a boy scout, I'd be waiting for Cortana to arrive at my doorstep. I wouldn't expect her to wipe her feet, so there's no door mat. Just a door. It's open. I mean, to me, it's open. To her.. Well.. I wouldn't want her to miss a mile of fun.

  • 06.24.2009 2:52 AM PDT
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I know what you do

cuz i do it to

East germany called they want their wall back

J/K very nice write dude i can see you put a lot of work in this


Good Job

  • 06.24.2009 9:15 AM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: Twelve Large
In all honesty, I have no idea what you're talking about. I tried to understand it, but I just don't get what you're asking me.

  • 06.24.2009 9:47 AM PDT
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I quite Halo 20 years ago.....

I'm just bumbed that I don't know much about Halo's storyline, but I congradulate you on your effort.

  • 06.24.2009 1:19 PM PDT

Posted by: Lord Snakie

The Precursor are The Flood:
the Flood are fairly advanced, at least inwardly. A collective mind, no inner-species war, no theft. War outside, yes, but that's out of necessity. An intriguing side-theory, to say the least.


I would have to disagree on the point that the Flood are more advanced. The fact that the Flood do not have free will is both a hindrance and a positive. The Positive you have clearly stated. However, the Negative aspect is that there is no free thinking. No bouncing ideas off multiple minds or an creative discussion. The only "Mind" that can produce new knowledge is the Gravemind, and even then its only just one entity. Thus, the only real way for new knowledge to be gained in Flood society is the stealing of others knowledge. Clearly something which cannot produce its own fresh knowledge cannot be a more advanced society.

  • 06.24.2009 1:28 PM PDT
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Well Enough Alone...

~"The people who play Bungie games tend to sense that there's something behind the games that's attractive to them. Then they become fans of the games. And then they become rabid fans. And then they become employees of Bungie."(Life story) -Marty

I like the basic idea for this theaory. The Grave-Mind name is great connection.
As an extension, I think it's possible that the precursors not only used the flood to retrieve the memeries of their dead, but to not die at all. They could have perposfully designed the flood with the ability to infect their living and extend their life, possibly indefinitly. In this way, they would have had immortality, until betrayed of course.

When Bungie was making the story for the original Halo, they took many hints from the Alien and Aliens movies (see "That Old Familiar Feeling" on Ascendant justice. Great read). One more similarity I realized is that both contain AI (Ash and Mendicate Bias) that believe the aliens (Aleins and flood) are the perfect form of life and betry their people to help their enemy. It would be interesting to see if there are any parrallels between the forruners/ precursors and species in alien's lore.

  • 06.25.2009 7:02 AM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: Vick Sr
I like the basic idea for this theaory. The Grave-Mind name is great connection.
As an extension, I think it's possible that the precursors not only used the flood to retrieve the memeries of their dead, but to not die at all. They could have perposfully designed the flood with the ability to infect their living and extend their life, possibly indefinitly. In this way, they would have had immortality, until betrayed of course.

I'm not sure if that would have been the case. Flood contact with a living being would likely be... disturbing. I mean, the bodies themselves are grotesque, as are the thoughts. Something kept "immortal" but so... well, disgustingly so might not have been desirable.

When Bungie was making the story for the original Halo, they took many hints from the Alien and Aliens movies (see "That Old Familiar Feeling" on Ascendant justice. Great read). One more similarity I realized is that both contain AI (Ash and Mendicate Bias) that believe the aliens (Aleins and flood) are the perfect form of life and betry their people to help their enemy. It would be interesting to see if there are any parrallels between the forruners/ precursors and species in alien's lore.
That's an interesting correlation, I didn't catch this before... I'll definitely have to look further into it. For the moment I can't update the OP without having to switch around the dividers from my oft-used quote divide lines, so it'll have to stay off the front for a little while until that's repaired or I've confirmed that it's not an error and I'll have to alter it anyway.

  • 06.25.2009 10:54 PM PDT

You don't kick a man when they're down, so don't teabag me when I'm dead!

I wonder if the oracle could have evolved into the flood somehow?

  • 06.26.2009 7:10 AM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: EpicFishFingers
I wonder if the oracle could have evolved into the flood somehow?

A monitor? Evolve into the Flood?

Machines do not equal organic life. Impossible.

  • 06.26.2009 10:04 AM PDT
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Perhaps accelerating evolution doesn't refer to physical evolution, but an evolution of the mind. This would explain how the intelligent species that were archived by the Forerunners before the Halo array was activated managed to regain their sentience so quickly. After all, the ARG before the release of Halo 3 (Iris, i think), showed a picture of Forerunners constructing the Portal under the sands of what later became known as New Mambosa. In the picture were primitive humans. So, the humans (and elites, grunts, brutes, etc.) were all archived, and I think maybe the Forerunners employed some sort of means of accelerating their cognitive growth. Thus, evolution of the mind.

Also, just thought I'd throw this out there, I haven't seen any posts related to quotes from the Gravemind himself at all. Although I don't know any off the top of my head, I'm sure many would hold some sort of relevance to the topic at hand... If you're interested, I could look into it further.

  • 06.26.2009 8:53 PM PDT

Twelve Large ²

An army of sheep led by a lion would defeat an army of lions led by a sheep.

Posted by: Lord Snakie
Posted by: EpicFishFingers
I wonder if the oracle could have evolved into the flood somehow?

A monitor? Evolve into the Flood?

Machines do not equal organic life. Impossible.


Could you then explain Infinite Devil Machine and Cortana's (Or Halsey's) encounter with Halo, 343 GS, and the Flood? If such history isn't suspect, I don't know what is.

  • 06.27.2009 2:52 AM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: Twelve Large
Could you then explain Infinite Devil Machine

I don't get what you're saying here, to be honest. The video's a small portion of Floodgate, yes. What about it?

and Cortana's (Or Halsey's) encounter with Halo, 343 GS, and the Flood? If such history isn't suspect, I don't know what is.
I'm also not sure what you're hinting about here. What about the encounters?

  • 06.27.2009 8:21 PM PDT

“We are the Mirratord. We strike with speed and stealth. Our enemies will not see their deaths. They will not know their fate. In darkness, we will see light. In light, we will see darkness. No matter the location, we will see victory. If we fail, no one will know. Like a ghost, our presence is a mystery. For the honor of the Mirratord" Join the Mirratord here

I just discovered this forum today, I always go straight to trolling in the Halo 3 Forum...

Snakie, I'm glad you finally found a place for your giant wall of philosophy, I participated in the last two, I'll come back when I think of something cool and philosophical.

  • 07.03.2009 4:25 AM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: RAG3 ON3
I just discovered this forum today, I always go straight to trolling in the Halo 3 Forum...

Snakie, I'm glad you finally found a place for your giant wall of philosophy, I participated in the last two, I'll come back when I think of something cool and philosophical.

Ah, RAG3. I've missed our philosophical banter in my huge theoretical threads. Why don't you come 'round more often?

Actually, no I haven't. 'Cause that's what gets my threads locked. No banter, sadly.

  • 07.05.2009 11:49 AM PDT
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Sorry Snakie if I haven't read all 10 pages of this thread but if this has already been stated (and answered) can you tell me which page it is on so I may read it.

Now that that is out of the way, How could the flood be in Tier 0 at all as the Bestiarum states they were in tier 7 and then adopted only tier 2? If the forerunners knew about the flood would they not have said they adopted tier 0?

Note this is a question I'm not trying to start a debate that I know I will lose.

  • 07.07.2009 11:33 AM PDT
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Also sorry for the double post but I just went back and read the entire 10 pages I don't believe the above was stated.

On a said note I saw everyone saying the Precursors having billion, or trillions of people well I think I have an answer,

In the first terminal in Halo 3 it states
Estimated number of citizens evacuated before commencement of orbital blanket bombardment: 1,318,797 civilian / 42,669 military (.0006% of total population).

add that together you get 1,361,466, then you multiply that by 10000 to get 6% of the population being 13,614,660,000 that being only 6 percent of the population. Multiply that by 16 to get 96% of the population being 217,834,560,000, If my math is correct. If you want, you could find the other 4% but seeing that it would be somewhere around 9 billion I don't think it is necessary.

Remember this is only the forerunner Population, so would that mean the precursors had an even bigger population?




Also something else I would want to know, If the Master Chief only has class 2 Combat skin, and the forerunner army must have had a good amount of class 18 combat skins, How come they lost the war to the flood but the Master Chief can overcome loads of flood by himself with "such ineffective weapons" as Guilty Spark puts it. To me It doesn't make since that one SPARTAN-II can effectively combat loads of flood while an army of Forerunners with Combat Skins at least 6 times better than his would lose to the flood.

Like I stated before though I am just wondering, I may be focusing more on the facts than your theory, but to me it poses some even more interesting questions, Was the class 18 Combat skin the MJOLNIR armor to the Precursor, only a class 2? This would mean the Precursors are even more powerful than an army of SPARTAN s could ever be.

I have even confused myself a little so if you could answer some of these questions it would be very helpful.

  • 07.07.2009 1:10 PM PDT

What is a trans-sentient being?

  • 07.07.2009 2:00 PM PDT
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Look it up here

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/trans
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sentient

Put 2 of those definitions together and you get trans-sentient

But essentially it means beyond life, like a demi-god

[Edited on 07.07.2009 2:21 PM PDT]

  • 07.07.2009 2:20 PM PDT

Posted by: Person25
Look it up here

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/trans
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sentient

Put 2 of those definitions together and you get trans-sentient

But essentially it means beyond life, like a demi-god


Ok so what kind of abilities would they physical posses. that's what I want to know.

  • 07.07.2009 2:28 PM PDT

OH dear. And to think when I started playing Halo all it was, was a green guy fighting a load of 8ft finger mouthed Lizards, it's way much more than that. Whoever thought up of the storyline of Halo diverse a medal. It's the best story I've ever come across. And to think they ain't even made a film yet. It's textbook film material.

  • 07.07.2009 2:33 PM PDT
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Did you even read his theory, first of all?

If you did I'm sure you were very, very confused.

Go here
http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Bestiarum

And here
http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Technological_Achievement_Tiers

Search the rest of the site too I'm sure you will find something about it.


If you mean trans sentient being outside of the Halo universe, go to the flood forum or just search trans sentient on Google.

  • 07.07.2009 2:35 PM PDT
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OH dear. And to think when I started playing Halo all it was, was a green guy fighting a load of 8ft finger mouthed Lizards, it's way much more than that. Whoever thought up of the storyline of Halo diverse a medal. It's the best story I've ever come across. And to think they ain't even made a film yet. It's textbook film material.


Answer 1 : If your being sarcastic, then please leave, no one wants to here that here.

Answer 2 : If your being serious, The storyline was created by more than one person, they do deserve a medal of some sort. It is one of the best stories out there. There is a film in production, I believe Though it is not confirmed or denied.

  • 07.07.2009 2:42 PM PDT