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  • Subject: The Precursor, The Flood, and the Acceleration of Evolution (V2)
Subject: The Precursor, The Flood, and the Acceleration of Evolution (V2)
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: Person25
Now that that is out of the way, How could the flood be in Tier 0 at all as the Bestiarum states they were in tier 7 and then adopted only tier 2? If the forerunners knew about the flood would they not have said they adopted tier 0?

Note this is a question I'm not trying to start a debate that I know I will lose.

Haha, don't worry about it, that's a really good question.

To be honest, I'm just going to throw another "probably" out there, and I know that a lot of people don't like my adherence to "probably"s and not facts, but such is my thinking. As stated in the main theory, I believed the Flood only attained momentary trans-sentience, perhaps even only partial trans-sentience. By the time the Flood made it to the Milky Way, it's possible that they had already degenerated to a lower tier and the Forerunner marked them as that lower tier. In fact, I find this fairly likely; how could the Forerunner defeat them if they still possessed the trans-sentient skills? It would be nigh-impossible.

On a said note I saw everyone saying the Precursors having billion, or trillions of people well I think I have an answer,

In the first terminal in Halo 3 it states
Estimated number of citizens evacuated before commencement of orbital blanket bombardment: 1,318,797 civilian / 42,669 military (.0006% of total population).

add that together you get 1,361,466, then you multiply that by 10000 to get 6% of the population being 13,614,660,000 that being only 6 percent of the population. Multiply that by 16 to get 96% of the population being 217,834,560,000, If my math is correct. If you want, you could find the other 4% but seeing that it would be somewhere around 9 billion I don't think it is necessary.

Remember this is only the forerunner Population, so would that mean the precursors had an even bigger population?

Interesting figures, that seems to me like a likely scenario. But trillions and trillions of people... that's very impressive. I'm starting to realize how grand the scope of this attack must have been, if it took place at all.

Also something else I would want to know, If the Master Chief only has class 2 Combat skin, and the forerunner army must have had a good amount of class 18 combat skins, How come they lost the war to the flood but the Master Chief can overcome loads of flood by himself with "such ineffective weapons" as Guilty Spark puts it. To me It doesn't make since that one SPARTAN-II can effectively combat loads of flood while an army of Forerunners with Combat Skins at least 6 times better than his would lose to the flood.

Like I stated before though I am just wondering, I may be focusing more on the facts than your theory, but to me it poses some even more interesting questions, Was the class 18 Combat skin the MJOLNIR armor to the Precursor, only a class 2? This would mean the Precursors are even more powerful than an army of SPARTAN s could ever be.

Ahh, but you must remember, the Flood adapt as they infect. They gain one single man in a Class-18 combat skin, they have that skin for themselves and that soldier's knowledge for themselves, helping them to infect the rest of them. I find it likely that one Forerunner soldier of that caliber was infected, the Flood learned their tactics, then began absorbing them at ludicrous speeds.

The Chief, however, was only one soldier, and the Flood didn't infect him. Even if they did, they would only have had one of them, and in a lower-level combat skin; while the Flood's tactics would have greatly evolved from his knowledge, they could not obtain more, and the Chief-Flood would not have been immortal. The Flood were ill-equipped to fight him and had lesser tactics; his high-class armor (for his time), his supreme tactics, and his vast resources kept him alive against the hordes.

  • 07.08.2009 1:47 AM PDT

Posted by: Person25
OH dear. And to think when I started playing Halo all it was, was a green guy fighting a load of 8ft finger mouthed Lizards, it's way much more than that. Whoever thought up of the storyline of Halo diverse a medal. It's the best story I've ever come across. And to think they ain't even made a film yet. It's textbook film material.


Answer 1 : If your being sarcastic, then please leave, no one wants to here that here.

Answer 2 : If your being serious, The storyline was created by more than one person, they do deserve a medal of some sort. It is one of the best stories out there. There is a film in production, I believe Though it is not confirmed or denied.


Yeah I was being serious. And why have they denied/not confirmed it? That's just plain silly.

  • 07.08.2009 3:17 AM PDT

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Posted by: Person25
Also something else I would want to know, If the Master Chief only has class 2 Combat skin, and the forerunner army must have had a good amount of class 18 combat skins, How come they lost the war to the flood but the Master Chief can overcome loads of flood by himself with "such ineffective weapons" as Guilty Spark puts it. To me It doesn't make since that one SPARTAN-II can effectively combat loads of flood while an army of Forerunners with Combat Skins at least 6 times better than his would lose to the flood.

Like I stated before though I am just wondering, I may be focusing more on the facts than your theory, but to me it poses some even more interesting questions, Was the class 18 Combat skin the MJOLNIR armor to the Precursor, only a class 2? This would mean the Precursors are even more powerful than an army of SPARTAN s could ever be.

I have even confused myself a little so if you could answer some of these questions it would be very helpful.

Ah, I believe I can answer this one. I can't remember where I read it, but it was theorized that the armor ranking system wasn't based on how good the armor was, but the purpose of the armor. Guilty Spark could have scanned the MJOLNIR armor as simply an environmental protection suit, as the Forerunner combat armor may have had different characteristics. Say a Class 18 suit could have simply been hardened against radiation. Guilty Spark also had no way of knowing John had been surgically altered to be stronger and faster.

  • 07.08.2009 6:01 AM PDT
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Posted by: Person25
Now that that is out of the way, How could the flood be in Tier 0 at all as the Bestiarum states they were in tier 7 and then adopted only tier 2? If the forerunners knew about the flood would they not have said they adopted tier 0?

Note this is a question I'm not trying to start a debate that I know I will lose.


Posted by Lord Snakie
Haha, don't worry about it, that's a really good question.

To be honest, I'm just going to throw another "probably" out there, and I know that a lot of people don't like my adherence to "probably"s and not facts, but such is my thinking. As stated in the main theory, I believed the Flood only attained momentary trans-sentience, perhaps even only partial trans-sentience. By the time the Flood made it to the Milky Way, it's possible that they had already degenerated to a lower tier and the Forerunner marked them as that lower tier. In fact, I find this fairly likely; how could the Forerunner defeat them if they still possessed the trans-sentient skills? It would be nigh-impossible.




Okay that answers that question.

Also something else I would want to know, If the Master Chief only has class 2 Combat skin, and the forerunner army must have had a good amount of class 18 combat skins, How come they lost the war to the flood but the Master Chief can overcome loads of flood by himself with "such ineffective weapons" as Guilty Spark puts it. To me It doesn't make since that one SPARTAN-II can effectively combat loads of flood while an army of Forerunners with Combat Skins at least 6 times better than his would lose to the flood.

Like I stated before though I am just wondering, I may be focusing more on the facts than your theory, but to me it poses some even more interesting questions, Was the class 18 Combat skin the MJOLNIR armor to the Precursor, only a class 2? This would mean the Precursors are even more powerful than an army of SPARTAN s could ever be.


Ahh, but you must remember, the Flood adapt as they infect. They gain one single man in a Class-18 combat skin, they have that skin for themselves and that soldier's knowledge for themselves, helping them to infect the rest of them. I find it likely that one Forerunner soldier of that caliber was infected, the Flood learned their tactics, then began absorbing them at ludicrous speeds.

The Chief, however, was only one soldier, and the Flood didn't infect him. Even if they did, they would only have had one of them, and in a lower-level combat skin; while the Flood's tactics would have greatly evolved from his knowledge, they could not obtain more, and the Chief-Flood would not have been immortal. The Flood were ill-equipped to fight him and had lesser tactics; his high-class armor (for his time), his supreme tactics, and his vast resources kept him alive against the hordes.



But isn't that going against your theory saying that the flood still had memories of the Forerunners meaning they should have been able to out maneuver Master Chief?




Posted by: Person25
OH dear. And to think when I started playing Halo all it was, was a green guy fighting a load of 8ft finger mouthed Lizards, it's way much more than that. Whoever thought up of the storyline of Halo diverse a medal. It's the best story I've ever come across. And to think they ain't even made a film yet. It's textbook film material.


Answer 1 : If your being sarcastic, then please leave, no one wants to here that here.

Answer 2 : If your being serious, The storyline was created by more than one person, they do deserve a medal of some sort. It is one of the best stories out there. There is a film in production, I believe Though it is not confirmed or denied.


Posted by Alfdog
Yeah I was being serious. And why have they denied/not confirmed it? That's just plain silly.

Well there probably will be one if you go to Halopedia (just search on Google) adn type in halo movie you can read about it there.




Posted by: Person25
Also something else I would want to know, If the Master Chief only has class 2 Combat skin, and the forerunner army must have had a good amount of class 18 combat skins, How come they lost the war to the flood but the Master Chief can overcome loads of flood by himself with "such ineffective weapons" as Guilty Spark puts it. To me It doesn't make since that one SPARTAN-II can effectively combat loads of flood while an army of Forerunners with Combat Skins at least 6 times better than his would lose to the flood.

Like I stated before though I am just wondering, I may be focusing more on the facts than your theory, but to me it poses some even more interesting questions, Was the class 18 Combat skin the MJOLNIR armor to the Precursor, only a class 2? This would mean the Precursors are even more powerful than an army of SPARTAN s could ever be.

I have even confused myself a little so if you could answer some of these questions it would be very helpful.


Posted by RAG3 ON3
Ah, I believe I can answer this one. I can't remember where I read it, but it was theorized that the armor ranking system wasn't based on how good the armor was, but the purpose of the armor. Guilty Spark could have scanned the MJOLNIR armor as simply an environmental protection suit, as the Forerunner combat armor may have had different characteristics. Say a Class 18 suit could have simply been hardened against radiation. Guilty Spark also had no way of knowing John had been surgically altered to be stronger and faster.


Assuming you got that off halopedia, which is where I got the information on the skins, then that is just one theory. The Theory that I would like to go with is this one,

Armor Ability Stacking
or maybe this one,

Shielding Theory

Of course the other theories are also exceptionable with I believe the most common being it goes by the power. I believe the Theory you are talking about would be this one,

Armor Class

To read all these theories gohere.







[Edited on 07.08.2009 7:45 AM PDT]

  • 07.08.2009 7:41 AM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: Person25
But isn't that going against your theory saying that the flood still had memories of the Forerunners meaning they should have been able to out maneuver Master Chief?

Well, if you think about it, it actually supports it in a way. The Flood on Alpha Halo had no Gravemind, no central intelligence. It seems like, without that central intelligence, the Flood cannot act on their stored memories and just shrink back down to tier 6. And it also seems like the Flood lose their knowledge over time, although that's just one of many possibilities.

  • 07.08.2009 10:12 AM PDT
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Posted by: Lord Snakie
Posted by: Person25
But isn't that going against your theory saying that the flood still had memories of the Forerunners meaning they should have been able to out maneuver Master Chief?

Well, if you think about it, it actually supports it in a way. The Flood on Alpha Halo had no Gravemind, no central intelligence. It seems like, without that central intelligence, the Flood cannot act on their stored memories and just shrink back down to tier 6. And it also seems like the Flood lose their knowledge over time, although that's just one of many possibilities.


What about the flood on Delta Halo and Earth?

  • 07.08.2009 11:06 AM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: Person25
What about the flood on Delta Halo and Earth?

They possessed higher intelligence, yes, but they would also be used to fighting Forerunner, not humans. Humankind has different tactics, I'm sure.

But really, it was all luck. While there are a few things to augment that luck, like I've said, even the books say that all the Chief essentially has in his favor is luck. I'm just making a relative guess as to why the Forerunner lost so badly.

  • 07.08.2009 11:25 AM PDT
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Posted by: Lord Snakie
Posted by: Person25
What about the flood on Delta Halo and Earth?

They possessed higher intelligence, yes, but they would also be used to fighting Forerunner, not humans. Humankind has different tactics, I'm sure.

But really, it was all luck. While there are a few things to augment that luck, like I've said, even the books say that all the Chief essentially has in his favor is luck. I'm just making a relative guess as to why the Forerunner lost so badly.



Okay well that answers that as well, but another question that I already stated, With the Forerunner population as high as 250 billion (I think it was billion) Do you think the Precursors Population would have been greater and how much so would you speculate?

  • 07.08.2009 11:28 AM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: Person25
Okay well that answers that as well, but another question that I already stated, With the Forerunner population as high as 250 billion (I think it was billion) Do you think the Precursors Population would have been greater and how much so would you speculate?

It was more around 227 billion, I think.

It's really hard to tell, because we don't know the stage of the Flood infection at that time. It's been said that the Forerunner almost colonized the entire galaxy by the time they were attacked by the Flood, but yet 227 billion people just doesn't seem like a galaxy-spanning species, does it? I mean, I would expect more than that, perhaps in the trillions, and yet it's suggested that only around 227 billion were alive at this time. Unless their colonies were basically outposts of only a few hundred/thousand Forerunner, (and that particular colony was suggested to have millions) I don't see that being their accurate number.

The Precursor would be hard to judge because of their mental and technological superiority, and simply because of how different they are from us. I would say their population would be in the trillions, but I really couldn't guess very accurately with the information at hand. There's just no real way of telling.

  • 07.08.2009 11:38 AM PDT

You know I've just noticed something that might give your Living AI theory a bit of weight to it. I don't know if anyone else has bough this up but Halo array kills all living creatures right? So why wouldn't it take out the flood too? this could be to do will the fact that there bio-engineered or something?

And another thing. This is a bit off topic but I though you were the guy to ask. Do the Covenant know of the Precursors and if they don't would there belief of the forerunners go down the drain as the precureseors are more powerful than them?

  • 07.09.2009 10:21 AM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: Alfdog
You know I've just noticed something that might give your Living AI theory a bit of weight to it. I don't know if anyone else has bough this up but Halo array kills all living creatures right? So why wouldn't it take out the flood too? this could be to do will the fact that there bio-engineered or something?

It's something to think about... something designed to be a living machine might be organic, but radically different than normal home-grown life. Interesting theory.

And another thing. This is a bit off topic but I though you were the guy to ask. Do the Covenant know of the Precursors and if they don't would there belief of the forerunners go down the drain as the precureseors are more powerful than them?
There's no evidence that the Covenant possess the information, but there's no evidence that Truth didn't discover it, or that the many Prophets before Truth did not. I'm not certain, but I know of nothing that points one way or the other.

  • 07.09.2009 10:39 AM PDT
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Posted by: Lord Snakie
Posted by: Person25
Okay well that answers that as well, but another question that I already stated, With the Forerunner population as high as 250 billion (I think it was billion) Do you think the Precursors Population would have been greater and how much so would you speculate?

It was more around 227 billion, I think.

It's really hard to tell, because we don't know the stage of the Flood infection at that time. It's been said that the Forerunner almost colonized the entire galaxy by the time they were attacked by the Flood, but yet 227 billion people just doesn't seem like a galaxy-spanning species, does it? I mean, I would expect more than that, perhaps in the trillions, and yet it's suggested that only around 227 billion were alive at this time. Unless their colonies were basically outposts of only a few hundred/thousand Forerunner, (and that particular colony was suggested to have millions) I don't see that being their accurate number..


I'm fairly sure that number is only for a single planet.

  • 07.09.2009 11:13 AM PDT

Maybe the Forerunners saw that The Precursor had reached imortality (Flood-form) and found it immoral, and so the war started...

sorry if already stated but i dont have time reading 11 pages of replys

[Edited on 07.09.2009 11:51 AM PDT]

  • 07.09.2009 11:50 AM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: opogjijijp
I'm fairly sure that number is only for a single planet.

You're likely correct, of course; that had occurred to me, but I didn't even think Forerunner could make a planet able to sustain that many people. Then I remembered that planets aren't all just conveniently the size of Earth.

Damn my narrow-mindedness!

Posted by: General E Kool00
Maybe the Forerunners saw that The Precursor had reached imortality (Flood-form) and found it immoral, and so the war started...

I highly doubt it. The Flood need biomass to survive, they wouldn't have just sat there and not eaten a perfectly good species, however odd that might sound.

sorry if already stated but i dont have time reading 11 pages of replys
Try 250. The Rainbow Theory V2.2 was fun. :\

[Edited on 07.09.2009 11:53 AM PDT]

  • 07.09.2009 11:51 AM PDT

I highly doubt it. The Flood need biomass to survive, they wouldn't have just sat there and not eaten a perfectly good species, however odd that might sound.

sorry i dont get you, what species?

  • 07.09.2009 1:37 PM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: General E Kool00
sorry i dont get you, what species?

The Forerunner. I'm essentially saying there wouldn't have been time for the Forerunner to start thinking about where the Flood came from, the Flood would just have... well, eaten them.

  • 07.09.2009 2:17 PM PDT
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Posted by: Lord Snakie
Posted by: Person25
Okay well that answers that as well, but another question that I already stated, With the Forerunner population as high as 250 billion (I think it was billion) Do you think the Precursors Population would have been greater and how much so would you speculate?

It was more around 227 billion, I think.

It's really hard to tell, because we don't know the stage of the Flood infection at that time. It's been said that the Forerunner almost colonized the entire galaxy by the time they were attacked by the Flood, but yet 227 billion people just doesn't seem like a galaxy-spanning species, does it? I mean, I would expect more than that, perhaps in the trillions, and yet it's suggested that only around 227 billion were alive at this time. Unless their colonies were basically outposts of only a few hundred/thousand Forerunner, (and that particular colony was suggested to have millions) I don't see that being their accurate number.

The Precursor would be hard to judge because of their mental and technological superiority, and simply because of how different they are from us. I would say their population would be in the trillions, but I really couldn't guess very accurately with the information at hand. There's just no real way of telling.



Posted by: Lord Snakie
Posted by: opogjijijp
I'm fairly sure that number is only for a single planet.

You're likely correct, of course; that had occurred to me, but I didn't even think Forerunner could make a planet able to sustain that many people. Then I remembered that planets aren't all just conveniently the size of Earth.

Damn my narrow-mindedness!



Still only one planet? I wouldn't think so because most planets aren't 40 times the size of Earth which would be about what it takes to carry 227 Billion people considering Earth has 6 Billion.

But you are right 227 Billion doesn't seem like enough to populate the whole of the galaxy, the only way I would be able to see the numbers add up is if we knew the whole Population of the Covenant and the Humans before the war. We know from Halcyon's star map, (or I should say speculate not know) that each side held about half of the galaxy, or maybe roughly 2/3 of the galaxy combined So if we could somehow figure it out, (which would take a long time, or may be impossible for all I know) we could theorize that the forerunners had a larger population that what we would come up with, or come up with something based on those numbers.

I hope that all made sense.

*edit I found that on Halopedia it said this,
At the beginning of the Human-Covenant War, the population would be estimated at around 58.074 billion. Then it had a giant explanation here.

With that we may be able to estimate Covenant numbers, but I would not be the one to do so as I have no idea where I would begin, but if saying that it was about he same, (which is highly unlikely) Then it would be around 120 billion in approx. 2/3 of the galaxy, or maybe more accurate would be 2.5/3 of the livable galaxy, considering that you cannot live too close to the Black hole at the very center of the galaxy. Of course this is only rough math so I may be wrong, but considering that the covenant would probably have a higher number of people, we can estimate that to control the entire galaxy the number would be roughly around 227 Billion people making the number on the Forerunners somewhat correct?

Again I hope you followed as this is very confusing, (at least to me).

[Edited on 07.10.2009 8:08 AM PDT]

  • 07.10.2009 7:50 AM PDT

Here to end the borrowed time you've all been living on.

Where exactly is this proof that the precursors achieved tier 0? The beastarium thing simply states the precursor were more technologically advanced than the forerunners, it doesn't say they were tier 0. In fact it says tier 0 may be theoretical, if the precursors were tier 0 it wouldnt be theoretical, it would definately exist, because thats what the precursors were.

Good story though. Well done!

  • 07.10.2009 8:42 AM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: Person25
Only problem with your thinking is that you didn't take into account how small most human colonies are. Most true-blue colony worlds on the outer rim of human colonization (Harvest, etc) only had a few million residents when those planets could have supported billions. Humankind's population might have been right around that level, but if they had stopped right where they were and focused on having kids and making their planets as productive as possible for a few generations, I have little doubt the number could've quadrupled.

The Forerunner had advanced technology, terraforming techniques, and they could create stars and planets. I think they could do what is suggested here, simply because they could make what they needed.

Posted by: G O R E25
Where exactly is this proof that the precursors achieved tier 0? The beastarium thing simply states the precursor were more technologically advanced than the forerunners, it doesn't say they were tier 0. In fact it says tier 0 may be theoretical, if the precursors were tier 0 it wouldnt be theoretical, it would definately exist, because thats what the precursors were.

Good story though. Well done!

It's one of the many assumptions in the theory. I don't have any real proof that the Precusror were Tier 0, but it made sense to me. There's not much more to say than that.

  • 07.10.2009 10:17 AM PDT
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Well the main thing I was trying to get at is that the Forerunners didn't have to have to actually occupy the entire galaxy in huge numbers, but that adding up the numbers shows that 227 billion was enough to be spread out across the whole of the livable galaxy.

Also, I thought I read that harvest just had about 300 thousand people but I may have been wrong.

Also just because they could make stars and planets doesn't mean anything. Plus why aren't these planets still in existence? Wouldn't someone have found at lest one? Unless you are referring to the Halo Array and the Ark then none have been found. Also considering Humans in the 21st century today can create mini Suns, so really we have the ability to make Stars, and in 2552 it would seem they probably know how but the technology is just to big, and expensive to make.

I do agree that the Humans could have quadrupled their numbers but as I just stated the 227 billion number could be enough to span the whole galaxy and for all we know the Forerunners may have liked to live in smaller colonies to avoid crime, ect. But that is just speculation.

  • 07.10.2009 10:49 AM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: Person25
Well the main thing I was trying to get at is that the Forerunners didn't have to have to actually occupy the entire galaxy in huge numbers, but that adding up the numbers shows that 227 billion was enough to be spread out across the whole of the livable galaxy.

I suppose that's legitimate enough, but I still don't believe that would be the case, especially if we look at the population of the planet that was destroyed as what you suggested, it would still be in the millions, more than the normal numbers for planetary occupation should be with your theory.

Also, I thought I read that harvest just had about 300 thousand people but I may have been wrong.
You're probably right, and if so that lends even more credence to why it doesn't make sense that the overall population of the galaxy would be so low, as the Forerunner planet had millions on it.

Also just because they could make stars and planets doesn't mean anything. Plus why aren't these planets still in existence? Wouldn't someone have found at lest one? Unless you are referring to the Halo Array and the Ark then none have been found.
What about Onyx, the mysterious planet found in Halo Wars, and some other speculated planets? These "created systems", or at least created planets within an existing system, have been found.

  • 07.10.2009 11:14 AM PDT

Plekpedia - The most epic site in the history of ever.

I think in some special edition on one of the Halo discs, it shows these planets covered by some metal, shield worlds perhaps? I don't know, they looked Forerunner. I'll have to find the thread....

  • 07.10.2009 11:19 AM PDT
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I remember in one of the terminals that it said forerunners first encountered the flood on some planet where they sent like a excavation party or whatever. Moon G-617 G


So if the precursors really did make the flood, wouldnt it be on a planet that could support all life and on a planet the forerunners or precursors already knew about?

[Edited on 07.10.2009 11:32 AM PDT]

  • 07.10.2009 11:21 AM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: spartan b12
I remember in one of the terminals that it said forerunners first encountered the flood on some planet where they sent like a excavation party or whatever. Moon G-617 G

So if the precursors really did make the flood, wouldnt it be on a planet that could support all life and on a planet the forerunners or precursors already knew about?

The Flood are extra-galactic in origin. They came to our galaxy. Why they were on that moon, we may never know. We just know they originated somewhere outside of our own galaxy.

  • 07.10.2009 11:34 AM PDT
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Posted by: Lord Snakie
Also just because they could make stars and planets doesn't mean anything. Plus why aren't these planets still in existence? Wouldn't someone have found at lest one? Unless you are referring to the Halo Array and the Ark then none have been found.

What about Onyx, the mysterious planet found in Halo Wars, and some other speculated planets? These "created systems", or at least created planets within an existing system, have been found.


Well I guess I'll have to read Ghosts of Onyx before I see that, but that explains a whole lot actually, and I see your point.

  • 07.10.2009 4:47 PM PDT