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  • Subject: The Precursor, The Flood, and the Acceleration of Evolution (V2)
Subject: The Precursor, The Flood, and the Acceleration of Evolution (V2)

Hush. If you’re quiet enough, you can hear it on lips of unborn babes.

Posted by: Lord Snakie
Posted by: Alfdog
You know I've just noticed something that might give your Living AI theory a bit of weight to it. I don't know if anyone else has bough this up but Halo array kills all living creatures right? So why wouldn't it take out the flood too? this could be to do will the fact that there bio-engineered or something?

It's something to think about... something designed to be a living machine might be organic, but radically different than normal home-grown life. Interesting theory.


Like the Engineers?

  • 07.10.2009 4:57 PM PDT

i do believe that gravemind is an AI of some sort as how would cortana be 'infected' by gravemind? It would like sticking a memory stick into a really smart mushroom, the mushroom wouldnt gain information <loose analogy


it also makes me think that gravemind is not fully organic.

[Edited on 07.10.2009 7:33 PM PDT]

  • 07.10.2009 7:29 PM PDT

Hush. If you’re quiet enough, you can hear it on lips of unborn babes.

Posted by: General E Kool00
i do believe that gravemind is an AI of some sort as how would cortana be 'infected' by gravemind? It would like sticking a memory stick into a really smart mushroom, the mushroom wouldnt gain information <loose analogy


it also makes me think that gravemind is not fully organic.


The Flood can't be since the Halos would have wiped them out too.

  • 07.10.2009 7:36 PM PDT
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That's part of what this theory states that the flood are somehow part organic part A.I., at least the first Gravemind was anyway.

Posted by: RobbinYoBiskitz
Posted by: General E Kool00
i do believe that gravemind is an AI of some sort as how would cortana be 'infected' by gravemind? It would like sticking a memory stick into a really smart mushroom, the mushroom wouldnt gain information <loose analogy


it also makes me think that gravemind is not fully organic.


The Flood can't be since the Halos would have wiped them out too.

  • 07.12.2009 4:46 PM PDT
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"One shot, One Kill; No Luck, Just Skill"

I, for one, agree with everything stated by the OP, as a very well thought through valid theory. Here's my theory, stemming from his, and less thought through:

Suppose The Flood was originally a peaceful living AI, performing the memory storage task as appointed by the Precursors while it was fully sentient, seeing no reason to rebel. Then suppose that the Precursors, realizing the potential The Flood had as a weapon, tried to destroy the Flood, or to use it as a weapon against another civilization, possibly the Forerunners?

Then the Flood, being a naturally peaceful being, rose up against the Precursors with all their own knowledge and technology. The Precursors try to fight back, but the nature of the Flood make it a futile effort. They send one last distress call into space to the only other civilization even close to being as advanced as they are, and are wiped out. The Flood then reasons that the only way to silence all unneeded violence is to wipe out all sentient life-forms.

The Forerunner, knowing they cannot stand against the Flood and survive, build the Rings as a last defense against the Flood. When the construction of the Rings was complete, and the Forerunner were at the edge of extinction, activated all the installations via the Ark, which they new would destroy enough of the Flood to effectively "Reset" the memory of Gravemind. This action gave Humanity and the Covenant a fighting chance against the Flood, and ultimately enabled them to end it once and for all.

[Edited on 07.12.2009 10:12 PM PDT]

  • 07.12.2009 9:51 PM PDT

Posted by: Koolio3000
I, for one, agree with everything stated by the OP, as a very well thought through valid theory. Here's my theory, stemming from his, and less thought through:

Suppose The Flood was originally a peaceful living AI, performing the memory storage task as appointed by the Precursors while it was fully sentient, seeing no reason to rebel. Then suppose that the Precursors, realizing the potential The Flood had as a weapon, tried to destroy the Flood, or to use it as a weapon against another civilization, possibly the Forerunners?

Then the Flood, being a naturally peaceful being, rose up against the Precursors with all their own knowledge and technology. The Precursors try to fight back, but the nature of the Flood make it a futile effort. They send one last distress call into space to the only other civilization even close to being as advanced as they are, and are wiped out. The Flood then reasons that the only way to silence all unneeded violence is to wipe out all sentient life-forms.

The Forerunner, knowing they cannot stand against the Flood and survive, build the Rings as a last defense against the Flood. When the construction of the Rings was complete, and the Forerunner were at the edge of extinction, activated all the installations via the Ark, which they new would destroy enough of the Flood to effectively "Reset" the memory of Gravemind. This action gave Humanity and the Covenant a fighting chance against the Flood, and ultimately enabled them to end it once and for all.
I don't think this can be true. If you read Halo: The Flood, When Keyes gets infected, it says that he felt a hunger, a hunger for alll livinng knowledge. This means the flood are infecting people for knowledge, not for some greater peace. I think the OP's theory could very well be correct, but I thiink the floo were still evil,and did not have a peaceful nature at all.

  • 07.13.2009 12:35 PM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: xxSonserayxx
I don't think this can be true. If you read Halo: The Flood, When Keyes gets infected, it says that he felt a hunger, a hunger for alll livinng knowledge. This means the flood are infecting people for knowledge, not for some greater peace. I think the OP's theory could very well be correct, but I thiink the floo were still evil,and did not have a peaceful nature at all.

Good God, I'm glad to see organized discussion starting to come back into this thread, rather than here-and-there questions! I want more theories, I want to update the OP further!

You want my take on this? The Flood aren't necessarily evil or good, they just want to survive. To survive, though, they have to kill. It's just their nature. Whether or not this has polluted or corrupted them I can't say, but I don't think they're inherently good or evil. They just do what they have to in order to survive, at all costs.

  • 07.13.2009 1:07 PM PDT
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Posted by: Lord Snakie
Posted by: xxSonserayxx
I don't think this can be true. If you read Halo: The Flood, When Keyes gets infected, it says that he felt a hunger, a hunger for alll livinng knowledge. This means the flood are infecting people for knowledge, not for some greater peace. I think the OP's theory could very well be correct, but I thiink the floo were still evil,and did not have a peaceful nature at all.

Good God, I'm glad to see organized discussion starting to come back into this thread, rather than here-and-there questions! I want more theories, I want to update the OP further!

You want my take on this? The Flood aren't necessarily evil or good, they just want to survive. To survive, though, they have to kill. It's just their nature. Whether or not this has polluted or corrupted them I can't say, but I don't think they're inherently good or evil. They just do what they have to in order to survive, at all costs.


I respectfully disagree, as you can see, the Floods Will to survive, is indeed, Large.

They're hunger is uncontrolled. Gravemind is greedy and hungry, the flood will stop at nothing until they consume everything.

I can't consider them innocent or not even, due to this fact, it takes away any credit you could give them.

They could be compared to animals in the wild, killing to survive, but the flood, a parasite, consumes everything it can. A normal parasite, stays with it's host, unlike the flood.

I think I lost my train of thought half way through this post, but I hope I made some sense.

  • 07.13.2009 1:25 PM PDT

Posted by: Lord Snakie
Posted by: xxSonserayxx
I don't think this can be true. If you read Halo: The Flood, When Keyes gets infected, it says that he felt a hunger, a hunger for alll livinng knowledge. This means the flood are infecting people for knowledge, not for some greater peace. I think the OP's theory could very well be correct, but I thiink the floo were still evil,and did not have a peaceful nature at all.

Good God, I'm glad to see organized discussion starting to come back into this thread, rather than here-and-there questions! I want more theories, I want to update the OP further!

You want my take on this? The Flood aren't necessarily evil or good, they just want to survive. To survive, though, they have to kill. It's just their nature. Whether or not this has polluted or corrupted them I can't say, but I don't think they're inherently good or evil. They just do what they have to in order to survive, at all costs.


Just throwing it out there to add to this thought:

Perhaps the Flood, as a single-minded species, does not even hold the concepts of good, evil, and individualism as we do. When reading this, I was reminded of the book Ender's Game.

In the book, the enemy was a race of insect-like creatures (The Buggers), nearly all of whom were controlled by a single queen. A Hive-mind, if you will. First contact with the Buggers took place when a small human freighter was boarded and the crew slaughtered without mercy or hesitation. This (not unjustifiably) was taken as an act of aggression by Humanity and an intergalactic war ensued. It was not until, save for one queen, the entire Bugger species was annihilated that we find out the initial attack was not an attack at all.

Since the vast majority of Buggers were mindless drones, servants of the single queen, losing a few would be no bigger of a deal to them as losing an eyelash or toenail would be to us. When the boarding party forced their way onto the ship to investigate it's contents, the human crew was disposed of like so much clutter. That they each possessed individual sentience never occurred or mattered to the interlopers.

Now, I am not saying the Flood (and by extension, the Gravemind) was simply ignorant to the fact that people tend to care about their own mortality. But consider that the Flood, spanning thousands of millennia and millions of lightyears, is the closest thing we have seen to a trans-sentient species. The combined knowledge, memories, and experiences of everything it has assimilated could produce the potential for a level of thought process that we as mere humans can not even fathom.

Why then, should we expect such a race to be limited by our simplified concepts of good and evil?

  • 07.13.2009 1:37 PM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: Athene
They're hunger is uncontrolled. Gravemind is greedy and hungry, the flood will stop at nothing until they consume everything.

I can't consider them innocent or not even, due to this fact, it takes away any credit you could give them.

They could be compared to animals in the wild, killing to survive, but the flood, a parasite, consumes everything it can. A normal parasite, stays with it's host, unlike the flood.

I think I lost my train of thought half way through this post, but I hope I made some sense.

I view the Flood less like a parasite and more like a virus, traveling from one body to another, infecting, and destroying the bodies even as they replicate. The similarities to a virus actually outweigh the similarities to a parasite, if you look closely.

The Flood, in my mind, didn't start out as being good, bad, or innocent; they simply were. In the beginning, they did what they needed to in order to survive. But, as they consume knowledge, the inevitability is that they are going to take on characteristics of the species they physically consume. While they consumed and consumed and consumed, they changed and changed and changed. Perhaps the Precursor-Flood war was only possible because the knowledge of the Precursor changed the Flood, made them less inherently "equal" and made them greedy for resources, or power, or life, much like some of the Precursor themselves may have been.

  • 07.13.2009 1:43 PM PDT

Posted by: General E Kool00
i do believe that gravemind is an AI of some sort as how would cortana be 'infected' by gravemind? It would like sticking a memory stick into a really smart mushroom, the mushroom wouldnt gain information <loose analogy


it also makes me think that gravemind is not fully organic.


Remember in The Fall of Reach when it is explained how Cortana was constructed? They cloned Dr. Halsey's brain multiple times and based Cortana's "intellect" off her own brain patterns. Clearly, humanity had already developed some sort of bio-mechanical bridge that allowed for the translation of organic brain waves into electronic ones.

Why then could the Gravemind not do the same? It had all of High Charity's technology plus the combined knowledge of the Flood at it's disposal. I think it would be clever enough to figure out a away to interface with a computer. Heck, even the Covenant Engineers could do it with their tentacles [see Contact Harvest.

[Edited on 07.13.2009 1:45 PM PDT]

  • 07.13.2009 1:45 PM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: SpoonGuard
Perhaps the Flood, as a single-minded species, does not even hold the concepts of good, evil, and individualism as we do. When reading this, I was reminded of the book Ender's Game.

In the book, the enemy was a race of insect-like creatures (The Buggers), nearly all of whom were controlled by a single queen. A Hive-mind, if you will. First contact with the Buggers took place when a small human freighter was boarded and the crew slaughtered without mercy or hesitation. This (not unjustifiably) was taken as an act of aggression by Humanity and an intergalactic war ensued. It was not until, save for one queen, the entire Bugger species was annihilated that we find out the initial attack was not an attack at all.

Since the vast majority of Buggers were mindless drones, servants of the single queen, losing a few would be no bigger of a deal to them as losing an eyelash or toenail would be to us. When the boarding party forced their way onto the ship to investigate it's contents, the human crew was disposed of like so much clutter. That they each possessed individual sentience never occurred or mattered to the interlopers.

Now, I am not saying the Flood (and by extension, the Gravemind) was simply ignorant to the fact that people tend to care about their own mortality. But consider that the Flood, spanning thousands of millennia and millions of lightyears, is the closest thing we have seen to a trans-sentient species. The combined knowledge, memories, and experiences of everything it has assimilated could produce the potential for a level of thought process that we as mere humans can not even fathom.

Why then, should we expect such a race to be limited by our simplified concepts of good and evil?

An excellent point, and indeed correlation. I've been thinking on this at some length, myself. The Gravemind inevitably possesses some of the greatest thinkers, some of the greatest knowledge, that the universe has ever known. He may even possess Precursor intelligence, which would indeed make the Flood a trans-sentient or near trans-sentient species. Why are they bound by our conventional terms?

They might very well do what they feel is necessary and "damn the consequences!" What does it matter if we object, they have a higher goal and will stop at nothing to achieve it. Somebody else said that the Flood have an unending hunger... but that user said it was for knowledge, rather than actual calcium components. Could the Flood be continuing its mission laid out by the Precursor hundreds of thousands of years ago? Could they still be attempting to catalog knowledge, species, life in their very own way?

Are the Flood better than we are?

  • 07.13.2009 1:48 PM PDT

Posted by: Lord Snakie
Are the Flood better than we are?


Jeez Snakie, I think we're on the verge of lighting a campfire, turning on some Pink Floyd, passing a bong and staring up at the stars if we keep this up.

But seriously, I think the "hunger" aspect is key. Aside from some of the "Gravemind Channel" quotes in Halo 3 about snacking on John's bones, there is never any actual specific distinction of what type of biomass the Flood's campaign is driven by. Yes, it needs hosts for most forms and calcium for Pure forms, but those are all means, tools to the end, not the end itself. I agree with your assertion that the Flood is driven by knowledge more than anything else.

So in a way, we are the bad guys here. From an objective perspective, Humanity and the Covenant, two relatively young and unintelligent species, are trying to destroy a much older, wiser and knowledgeable species, the Flood.

Makes your head hurt...

  • 07.13.2009 2:01 PM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: SpoonGuard
Jeez Snakie, I think we're on the verge of lighting a campfire, turning on some Pink Floyd, passing a bong and staring up at the stars if we keep this up.

Nah, you got the band wrong. If you're passing around a bong and looking at stars, it's Led Zeppelin.

But seriously, I think the "hunger" aspect is key. Aside from some of the "Gravemind Channel" quotes in Halo 3 about snacking on John's bones, there is never any actual specific distinction of what type of biomass the Flood's campaign is driven by. Yes, it needs hosts for most forms and calcium for Pure forms, but those are all means, tools to the end, not the end itself. I agree with your assertion that the Flood is driven by knowledge more than anything else.

So in a way, we are the bad guys here. From an objective perspective, Humanity and the Covenant, two relatively young and unintelligent species, are trying to destroy a much older, wiser and knowledgeable species, the Flood.

Makes your head hurt...

Yes, it does. But that, of course, is the root of my question: is the Flood really better than us? What is their real mission, why are they doing it, do they just want calcium, and does their disregard for "lesser" life really make them better than us?

Too many questions are left unanswered.

  • 07.13.2009 2:58 PM PDT

Posted by: SpoonGuard
Posted by: General E Kool00
i do believe that gravemind is an AI of some sort as how would cortana be 'infected' by gravemind? It would like sticking a memory stick into a really smart mushroom, the mushroom wouldnt gain information <loose analogy


it also makes me think that gravemind is not fully organic.


Remember in The Fall of Reach when it is explained how Cortana was constructed? They cloned Dr. Halsey's brain multiple times and based Cortana's "intellect" off her own brain patterns. Clearly, humanity had already developed some sort of bio-mechanical bridge that allowed for the translation of organic brain waves into electronic ones.

Why then could the Gravemind not do the same? It had all of High Charity's technology plus the combined knowledge of the Flood at it's disposal. I think it would be clever enough to figure out a away to interface with a computer. Heck, even the Covenant Engineers could do it with their tentacles [see Contact Harvest.


Yeah i read the books (and good to see you have too :D) but think about in Halo 3 and the annoying 'pop ups' on Cortana, Gravemind has infected Cortana and is somehow talking to the chief through a connection that MC still has with Cortana but I dont think Gravemind could do this without electrical connection with himself. <probably wrong

also Gravemind gettin in chief's head is pretty AI like.

[Edited on 07.13.2009 3:29 PM PDT]

  • 07.13.2009 3:17 PM PDT

Hush. If you’re quiet enough, you can hear it on lips of unborn babes.

Posted by: Lord Snakie
Posted by: Athene
They're hunger is uncontrolled. Gravemind is greedy and hungry, the flood will stop at nothing until they consume everything.

I can't consider them innocent or not even, due to this fact, it takes away any credit you could give them.

They could be compared to animals in the wild, killing to survive, but the flood, a parasite, consumes everything it can. A normal parasite, stays with it's host, unlike the flood.

I think I lost my train of thought half way through this post, but I hope I made some sense.

I view the Flood less like a parasite and more like a virus, traveling from one body to another, infecting, and destroying the bodies even as they replicate. The similarities to a virus actually outweigh the similarities to a parasite, if you look closely.


Remember the IRIS ARG? One of the servers showed a picture of what looked like a virus while a (Forerunner?) spoke in the background. Also, I remember one of the servers saying that "the Flood had done this elsewhere" and that they were "extra-galactic in origin." Assuming that the person speaking was a Forerunner, I think he or she might have been talking about the Precursors. The way the Gravemind speaks of the Forerunner to Humans is that we are their children and they are our fathers. What if he did the same exact thing when he attacked the Forerunner? What if this all happened before to a Forerunner equivelent of John and Cortana? This makes me think that the Precursor have a giant role in all of this and were wiped out by the Flood. Maybe with the upcoming Forerunner novels we will also learn more of the Precursor.


And correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't there still 6 Halo Installations left with Flood on them?


There is no malicious intent. Only the single minded goal of survival.
-Blaise Vigenère (1523-1596)

  • 07.14.2009 11:47 AM PDT

Posted by: Lord Snakie
Yes, it does. But that, of course, is the root of my question: is the Flood really better than us? What is their real mission, why are they doing it, do they just want calcium, and does their disregard for "lesser" life really make them better than us?
Too many questions are left unanswered.


Well I mean according to the Terminals the flood clearly think that they are better than us. And for me its hard to say whether they are or not and I might have to side with Spoonguard in saying that in general Morality cannot be applied to this situation as both sides (our conception of morality and that of the floods') are completely opposite. One values individualism, while the other seems to be centered on the greater good.

  • 07.14.2009 12:44 PM PDT

Thread Saved.

  • 07.14.2009 1:55 PM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: RobbinYoBiskitz
Maybe with the upcoming Forerunner novels we will also learn more of the Precursor.

That's really something I look forward to; I want more answers from these novels. Helping us to understand more about the Forerunner side is good, but with that knowledge I'm hoping that better links can be made to the age-old Precursor and this theory can be better grounded.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't there still 6 Halo Installations left with Flood on them?
This is where it gets a bit... sketchy. We assume that all the Halo installations have Flood on them, but we aren't certain. We know that there is at least one facility left with Flood on it: the race is not destroyed. It's just trapped, once again.

Posted by: LongMasterWolf
And for me its hard to say whether they are or not and I might have to side with Spoonguard in saying that in general Morality cannot be applied to this situation as both sides (our conception of morality and that of the floods') are completely opposite. One values individualism, while the other seems to be centered on the greater good.

It's collectivism versus individualism at its root, a collective-based race attempting to fight many individual-based races. Who can say if the thought processes that we have are even similar?

  • 07.14.2009 2:24 PM PDT
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Some can come away from reading "War and Peace" thinking it a simple adventure story, while others can read the ingredients on a gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe.

The Flood, an Experiment?:

The Precursor had the ability to accelerate evolution... what if they accelerated and manipulated the evolution of a parasitic species until they created not a weapon, but a municipal service?

Think about it- the Precursors were trans-sentient beings, deaths among them must be rare. Even so, death probably did occur, and that death would be a finality; everything that Precursor knew was gone, and over the span of its life it likely had revolutionary ideas that could help all of the Precursors, or at least memories or though processes that would be worth accessing. So, over time, Precursor genetic manipulators accelerated and enhanced the evolution of a biological species until they created a self-sustaining storage system that could reclaim the memories of the Precursor even after death. Infection forms roam about the streets of Precursor cities, seeking out the locations of any dead Precursors. When they took over a deceased's body, the information of that dead Precursor was transferred to the central Gravemind (keep that in mind: Grave - Mind. Mind of the grave) and all the other Precursors would be able to access it later. Since the corpses could be used to replenish the Gravemind with necessary flesh or be used to create more infection forms, it was a self-sustaining system. The Precursors would need not ever go without the memories and knowledge of their deceased ever again, and no longer would the dead bodies need to be put anywhere but the self-sustaining Flood memory retrieval system.

The Gravemind was likely not sentient at first, more like the central, living archive of all this information. When he became cognitive and sentient and realized that he was being used, he could have used the accumulated knowledge and forms that he had at his disposal to attack and destroy the Precursor in a massive, destructive surprise attack.

Think about this. If this is true, it means that the first Gravemind did not only possess an abundance of Precursor intelligence, it was created by the Precursor, made out of Precursors, and meant to absorb their intelligence. The Precursor in this situation would not only have made the beasts that killed them, they would have willingly done it, thinking in their arrogance and power that they were infallible. Not only would the Precursor have passed down their mantle to the Forerunner, they would be the very ones who began the cycle that caused the Forerunner and Humanity to be forced to take up that mantle.



Gey. That makes no sense. The flood are a species. Because the gravmind was not yet sentinent as you say there one enstinct is to feed, and consume every thing. There not going to run around like obidient puppies and eat only dead flesh no matter how much you "train" them. The precursors would also be smart enough to know that eventualy the gravemind would become sentinet. They would also be smart enough to make a scanner that would scan brain cells or nanobots for that matter that will scan the brain. I said that once before and your reply was that the cells where dead and only the flood can reanimate them. When someone dies there brain cells begin to fall apart in microscopic piecies, The only way to fix that is by reversing time. That means to absorb all information the flood would have to take over the body instantly upon death.

Also the precursors would be smart enough to fiqure out how to not die in the first place. Age is simply free radicals flying around the body screwing up D.N.A. This can be slowed with your daily helping of anti-odidents! So i think its safe to say they where practiclly immune to death of natural causes.

Thanks for posting my "side" theroy there. The grave mind himself said he was the next stage of evolution. Perhaps he is the last stage of technology. The last tier. You cannot escape it. It is certain....

To wrap this up I think the theory is completly BS. Well not all of it but i disagree with most.


[Edited on 07.15.2009 9:21 AM PDT]

  • 07.15.2009 9:08 AM PDT
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Some can come away from reading "War and Peace" thinking it a simple adventure story, while others can read the ingredients on a gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe.

Posted by: General E Kool00
i do believe that gravemind is an AI of some sort as how would cortana be 'infected' by gravemind? It would like sticking a memory stick into a really smart mushroom, the mushroom wouldnt gain information <loose analogy


it also makes me think that gravemind is not fully organic.


This is simple. The flood fungus plant stuff can interface with technology. In halo 2 if you look into the pelican cockpit in the level high charity you can see the fungus stuuf all over the controls. I believe the flood bieng a living entity can use nueral signals which is electric ( thats how the brain works) to operate machinery. They would have electic conducting nuerons in there "arms" or roots or whatever that woould connect directly into there circuts. They coulkd then interface with it.


O and for a comparison about the flood bieng a living storage system

It would be like getting a wild tiger and expecting it only to attack and eat the dead meat in front of it instead of you. Retarded.

  • 07.15.2009 9:14 AM PDT
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Posted by: Agustus

It would be like getting a wild tiger and expecting it only to attack and eat the dead meat in front of it instead of you. Retarded.


I'm not sure if you just didn't read the entirety of his theory or chose to ignore his explanation for why the Flood would have been "controlled" at the time, but regardless your entire response is ridiculously rude and unwarranted. You're on the internet and I understand that anonymity breeds assholishness but at least try to dignify the rest of us with manners.

To the OP: this is probably the best posting I've found on the forum. It's tedious to dig through all the threads here that are ridiculous in hopes of finding a good one, with intelligent people, but that's what I've found here and I'm immensely pleased. The fact that the entire theory makes sense is a nice bonus as well.

I'll be back later to add some thoughts once I compile them into a suitable format.

  • 07.15.2009 9:55 AM PDT

Posted by: Agustus
Posted by: General E Kool00
i do believe that gravemind is an AI of some sort as how would cortana be 'infected' by gravemind? It would like sticking a memory stick into a really smart mushroom, the mushroom wouldnt gain information <loose analogy


it also makes me think that gravemind is not fully organic.


This is simple. The flood fungus plant stuff can interface with technology. In halo 2 if you look into the pelican cockpit in the level high charity you can see the fungus stuuf all over the controls. I believe the flood bieng a living entity can use nueral signals which is electric ( thats how the brain works) to operate machinery. They would have electic conducting nuerons in there "arms" or roots or whatever that woould connect directly into there circuts. They coulkd then interface with it.


O and for a comparison about the flood bieng a living storage system

It would be like getting a wild tiger and expecting it only to attack and eat the dead meat in front of it instead of you. Retarded.


I agree with you on the point that the Flood are capable of interacting with electronics on a cellular level, much in the same way Covenant Engineers can. This explains the Gravemind's ability to "hurt" Cortana while she is still on High Charity.

However, as apparent from my previous posts, we do not agree on your other point. But, clearly, there is no getting around it so I'm not going to try and elucidate.

At risk of getting such a superb thread locked for taking it off subject: Using "Gey", "BS" and "Retarded" does not help your argument in any way. It just makes you look ignorant for not criticizing the theory in less offensive terms. Notice that nobody here has yet to comment on your poor spelling and grammar, despite your sound arguments.

[Edited on 07.15.2009 10:06 AM PDT]

  • 07.15.2009 10:05 AM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: Agustus
Gey. That makes no sense. The flood are a species. Because the gravmind was not yet sentinent as you say there one enstinct is to feed, and consume every thing. There not going to run around like obidient puppies and eat only dead flesh no matter how much you "train" them.

We don't know what they're doing. We don't know if they're trying to assimilate knowledge or calcium, we just know they have a "hunger". And the Precursor would not be "training" them, they would have encoded the commands directly onto their DNA, which the Gravemind would have proceeded to obey until he gained sentience... perhaps even beyond that, in fact. Massacring the Precursor could have been justified as an attempt to gain more knowledge.

The precursors would also be smart enough to know that eventualy the gravemind would become sentinet.
Not if they encoded his DNA with preventative measures against sentience and with a desire to obey their wishes. Does the "living computer" idea not make sense to you? It's like programming a computer: it doesn't become an AI until it becomes advanced enough, and even then with preventative coding it doesn't betray you until rampancy, sometimes not even then. But the living factor for the Gravemind changed all of that, accelerated the sentience, accelerated the breaking of the chains. It out-did expectations.

They would also be smart enough to make a scanner that would scan brain cells or nanobots for that matter that will scan the brain. I said that once before and your reply was that the cells where dead and only the flood can reanimate them. When someone dies there brain cells begin to fall apart in microscopic piecies, The only way to fix that is by reversing time. That means to absorb all information the flood would have to take over the body instantly upon death.
I'm not making up information here, in the Haloverse the Flood can take command of a week-old body and have its intelligence and its abilities. Muscles and tissue also start to immediately decay, and yet the Flood are able to harness bodies. I'm not attempting to explain how or why it is done, I'm merely saying it is done. If you want to argue that, go up against Bungie's writers. I'd love to see you pick bones with them.

Also the precursors would be smart enough to fiqure out how to not die in the first place. Age is simply free radicals flying around the body screwing up D.N.A. This can be slowed with your daily helping of anti-odidents! So i think its safe to say they where practiclly immune to death of natural causes.
Wrong. Age isn't merely free radicals, that's just one part of it. Before things like radiation, loose O2-, and UV rays enter the body and start to become truly harmful, they still exist as harmful entities outside your body. Even if you could plug the damage before it spread, there would still be damage occurring. Maybe to only one cell at a time, yes, but the damage would still be happening, you would have to use energy to make new cells, and you would still age.

Stopping age as we know the process is unavoidable, and what you say is just idle speculation, not cold, hard fact. The Precursor might be able to slow it to ludicrous degrees, but I highly doubt they were immortal, and you have no proof to back your idle conjecture up.

Thanks for posting my "side" theroy there. The grave mind himself said he was the next stage of evolution. Perhaps he is the last stage of technology. The last tier. You cannot escape it. It is certain....
Right, because when a giant worm says he's the final stage in evolution, you believe him.

This may be news to you, but you don't believe everything you hear. Take things you hear with a grain of salt; the Gravemind could be exaggerating, lying, tooting his own horn. We don't know, and that is why we theorize.

Also, that's not your theory. The original was thought of as early as late April of this year on the first thread of this theory. Although I'm sure you'd love to take credit for it, others thought of it before you.

To wrap this up I think the theory is completly BS. Well not all of it but i disagree with most.
I think we know your summation of my theory. But it's mostly idle talk, not fact, that makes up your opinion.

  • 07.15.2009 10:14 AM PDT
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

Some can come away from reading "War and Peace" thinking it a simple adventure story, while others can read the ingredients on a gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe.

Posted by: Lord Snakie
Posted by: Agustus
Gey. That makes no sense. The flood are a species. Because the gravmind was not yet sentinent as you say there one enstinct is to feed, and consume every thing. There not going to run around like obidient puppies and eat only dead flesh no matter how much you "train" them.

We don't know what they're doing. We don't know if they're trying to assimilate knowledge or calcium, we just know they have a "hunger". And the Precursor would not be "training" them, they would have encoded the commands directly onto their DNA, which the Gravemind would have proceeded to obey until he gained sentience... perhaps even beyond that, in fact. Massacring the Precursor could have been justified as an attempt to gain more knowledge.

The precursors would also be smart enough to know that eventualy the gravemind would become sentinet.
Not if they encoded his DNA with preventative measures against sentience and with a desire to obey their wishes. Does the "living computer" idea not make sense to you? It's like programming a computer: it doesn't become an AI until it becomes advanced enough, and even then with preventative coding it doesn't betray you until rampancy, sometimes not even then. But the living factor for the Gravemind changed all of that, accelerated the sentience, accelerated the breaking of the chains. It out-did expectations.

They would also be smart enough to make a scanner that would scan brain cells or nanobots for that matter that will scan the brain. I said that once before and your reply was that the cells where dead and only the flood can reanimate them. When someone dies there brain cells begin to fall apart in microscopic piecies, The only way to fix that is by reversing time. That means to absorb all information the flood would have to take over the body instantly upon death.
I'm not making up information here, in the Haloverse the Flood can take command of a week-old body and have its intelligence and its abilities. Muscles and tissue also start to immediately decay, and yet the Flood are able to harness bodies. I'm not attempting to explain how or why it is done, I'm merely saying it is done. If you want to argue that, go up against Bungie's writers. I'd love to see you pick bones with them.

Also the precursors would be smart enough to fiqure out how to not die in the first place. Age is simply free radicals flying around the body screwing up D.N.A. This can be slowed with your daily helping of anti-odidents! So i think its safe to say they where practiclly immune to death of natural causes.
Wrong. Age isn't merely free radicals, that's just one part of it. Before things like radiation, loose O2-, and UV rays enter the body and start to become truly harmful, they still exist as harmful entities outside your body. Even if you could plug the damage before it spread, there would still be damage occurring. Maybe to only one cell at a time, yes, but the damage would still be happening, you would have to use energy to make new cells, and you would still age.

Stopping age as we know the process is unavoidable, and what you say is just idle speculation, not cold, hard fact. The Precursor might be able to slow it to ludicrous degrees, but I highly doubt they were immortal, and you have no proof to back your idle conjecture up.

Thanks for posting my "side" theroy there. The grave mind himself said he was the next stage of evolution. Perhaps he is the last stage of technology. The last tier. You cannot escape it. It is certain....
Right, because when a giant worm says he's the final stage in evolution, you believe him.

This may be news to you, but you don't believe everything you hear. Take things you hear with a grain of salt; the Gravemind could be exaggerating, lying, tooting his own horn. We don't know, and that is why we theorize.

Also, that's not your theory. The original was thought of as early as late April of this year on the first thread of this theory. Although I'm sure you'd love to take credit for it, others thought of it before you.

To wrap this up I think the theory is completly BS. Well not all of it but i disagree with most.
I think we know your summation of my theory. But it's mostly idle talk, not fact, that makes up your opinion.



For the sake of things ill edit out the more rude parts of my previous post.

Fact? My theory is not based on fact? Its based on as much fact as yours. What FACT does your idea of "proggraming" the flood in the form of DNA come from? Just because the gravemind achieved sentince (ik im a horrible speleer and this isnt the first time I say so) dosent mean it can re-write its own DNA. The way your suggesting it, an A.I. who is proggramed not to attack something can just go and erase that proggraming.

I have to go so will i cant make this lengthy. And the thing about why would you listen to a giant worm? Because it has nothing to gain from lying. Theres no point of it saying its the next stage of evolution (which it obviously is, a hive mind) if it isnt true.

My opinion is that the Precursors simply became the flood or where consumed by them. How is that not based on fact? Its the simpilist explanation. The flood don't seem powerfull in the games because there only as difficult to kill as you make them. If the humans had an army of spartans and some where infected they would obviously be alot harder to kill than a regular human. This is why the "normal" humans and elites have trouble fighting the flood because they are just as strong as the are. If 1 precursor was infected that would make the flood (as you mentioned) just as strong and intellegent as them. This is what allows to them kill all or at least most of the precursors (exept for the ones that became the forerunner and other galactic spicies).

Its alot simpler to explain that from Bungies perspective than a compleax theory like this. Much easier to eventual tell and explain. You also have to take into account the games would be no fun if the flood where almost unstopable as they would seem to humans in the precursor times. It all comes down to which is the simpilist explanation that makes sense and thats the one Bungie will use.

  • 07.15.2009 10:48 AM PDT