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This topic has moved here: Subject: The Precursor, The Flood, and the Acceleration of Evolution V2.2!
  • Subject: The Precursor, The Flood, and the Acceleration of Evolution V2.2!
Subject: The Precursor, The Flood, and the Acceleration of Evolution V2.2!
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: LongMasterWolf
Its not Gravemind talking about his creators its MENDICANT BIAS, you state that at the top opf the page.

Yet he also said "that is not my voice, that is the other" (paraphrasing), so he's suggesting that it isn't himself, Mendicant Bias, but the other he was with, which is known to be the Gravemind. You see?

  • 07.22.2009 8:24 PM PDT

Posted by: SpoonGuard
Posted by: zaxmacks
Nice theory :)

Just one question; if the Flood were created to store the memories of the dead than how do they do this when they can't infect dead bodies? The Forerunners knew they couldn't infect dead bodies so they created the halos.


Not sure where you're getting your information but, the Flood can infect the dead. Ever notice how new combat forms seem to pop up from the same spot where you just put down a Brute?

The Halos target sentient life, but we do not know the actual method by which they are destroyed. It is likely that the Halo effect disrupts a being's nervous system in such a way that makes it impossible (or not worth it) for the Flood to infect them.

I got it from the game. Guilty Spark says that the rings kill all sentient life.

Also, how do you know that the bodies are fully dead? ;)

  • 07.23.2009 12:50 AM PDT
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Seven is the greatest number. It's got references everywhere! And it wouldn't surprise me if it was the answer to existance. (42 is in the 7 times table, all you hitchhikers fans will know.)

Cool beans dude, cool beans.

  • 07.23.2009 3:38 AM PDT

Posted by: zaxmacks
I got it from the game. Guilty Spark says that the rings kill all sentient life.

Also, how do you know that the bodies are fully dead? ;)


Again, this requires a certain level of faith in the Forerunner's ability to create a weapon that does more than just "kill all sentient life."

It would seem trivial for them to kill everyone and everything with the Halos if they knew the Flood would just come in and take over the dead bodies. If this were the case, their galaxy-wide xenocide would be a giant waste of time and resources. Thus, I tend to believe that, however Halo actually destroys sentient life, it does so in a way that prevents the Flood from finding any use in whatever is left over.

  • 07.23.2009 4:09 AM PDT
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Posted by: Reptilian Rob
I HAVE A THEORY!!!!!!

The Flood are mean bad guys because the Precursors took away all their cookies. Poor Flood went to another Galaxy looking for more cookies, only to find the Forerunners had already taken all the cookies! The Flood became jealous mean bad guys, and are now searching for new cookies because the mean evil bad Forerunners took theirs.

Master Chief like cookies too though, and now The Flood and The Master Chief are going to have an epic cookie battle to see who wins all the cookies, the Arbiter gets to watch and drink chocolate milk and eat cookies. SGT. Johnson doesn't like cookies though, which makes everyone in the Halo universe dislike him, Guilty Spark ended up killing him because of it. SGT. Johnson's last words were "I don't like cookies and cookies don't like me"!

Now the most epic battle for cookies is about to begin, all factions in the Halo universe are searching for all the cookies in the cookie jar, and only one shall have the cookies.

Stay tuned for more about cookies......


Interesting theory, let me guess the Prophet of Truth was going to sit back and let everyone kill themselves then he was going to steal the cookies then go on a Great Journey for more, very interesting when you think about it.

  • 07.23.2009 6:11 PM PDT

The Spartan was huge, easily 7 feet tall. Encased in pearlescent green battle armor. The man looked like a figure from mythology--otherworldly and terrifying. The mirrored visor on his helmet made him all the more fearsome, a faceless, impassive soldier built for death and destruction.

Hmm, It seems entirely plausible.

  • 07.23.2009 6:16 PM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: MimicSpartan117
Hmm, It seems entirely plausible.

Plausible doesn't equal probable, though, which is why I like to keep discussion flowing in order to receive more and more feedback so I can fine-tune the theory.

  • 07.23.2009 6:45 PM PDT

The Spartan was huge, easily 7 feet tall. Encased in pearlescent green battle armor. The man looked like a figure from mythology--otherworldly and terrifying. The mirrored visor on his helmet made him all the more fearsome, a faceless, impassive soldier built for death and destruction.

I'm only joking man.

But I'm really finding this interesting, the comparisons you have made.

  • 07.23.2009 10:28 PM PDT
Subject: The Precursor, The Flood, and the Acceleration of Evolution (V2)
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Lol, jeeze dude, That makes perfect sense. Which is very scary actually haha. I totally agree with you though!

  • 07.24.2009 12:01 AM PDT

"euro-roli"
++0021++

right. lovely work here. THREAD SAVED.

as for the whole destroy sentient life by way of ringpwah - you guys are forgetting the important point Cortana always made: its about STARVING the flood. So if its about killing them and flood cant take up dead bodies, that means they need replenishment and thats why the halos were made. If it means that they take up the dead bodies, that means there is no other meal AFTER that "last supper".

Either way: its about starvation and so it's fine, whether or not hte flood can infect dead bodies (I think they can).

to the OP: I thought the theories were very insightful and uses all the info we have gotten so far appropriately. The last of the side theories I think are the least likely of everything you've stated. We can assume these societies didnt refer to them with the names we have now, I think its been said its the names WE, the latter socities, gave them. And I don't think the precursor becoming flood, or splitting off into a set that left the galaxy is very congruous with your main theory, it seems much more as a fantastic musing. And the thing is, in Halo canon things seem much more rooted (as it can be i guess when you are taking about way in the future, epic space battle blah).

For that matter, I think the AI similarities can stop at the gravemind beginning as a catalog of intelligence which achieves its own sentience . Your parallels drawn with rampant AI's can be retrofitted sure, but I dont think the gravemind ever experienced rampancy. Saying its experiencing it in a infinite loop does sorta make sense, but maybe it simply became sentient, wiped out the precursors and travelled/lay dormant for the next set to gobble up, continue its hard coded mission. This we know the gravemind does, thru its threats and mocking of us. Gravemind believes it will outlast us all, and simply wait. which it seems to have done.

thats it. again great logical investigation to come up with your theories. I'd accept it if it were made canon (and we wil lfind out soon with the comics and anime)

  • 07.24.2009 4:09 AM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: el rolio
Why would the Gravemind be continuing with the mission the Precursor set for it, though, if it was not somehow "programmed" to do such a thing? You see, this is where you really have to be careful; would a sentient being that desired only food wait for a civilization to reach its peak and then crash it to the ground, or would it take slowly from a civilization, infecting small portions, controlling them and eating them before they could reach their potential?

Well, would you eat a year's worth of food at once, or would you eat it over time? The answer seems obvious. I don't pretend to understand the Flood, but I do think that, if they only wanted calcium, they would control a population rather than decimate it. I think they're feeding on the knowledge, following Precursor instructions. But if the Gravemind is sentient, why would he continue to follow the demands of the people that he betrayed and slaughtered?

Because something of the original code remained, because something of the original thing remained and forced the sentient entity to obey it. Artificial Intelligence. Programming.

  • 07.24.2009 9:53 AM PDT

You know, when I frist saw this theroy, I thought it was so deep, complex and interesting that it would be unlikely that it is true but the more I read the more I believe that this is the kind of story bungie would do anyway as it seems to fit in so well with the rest of Halos story line.

Good work.

I also have some information which might help or might not. Go to youtube and put in Halo songs backwards. It's pretty interesting stuff. If that don't get you there though, just go on halopedia and look it up there.

  • 07.25.2009 4:51 AM PDT
Subject: The Precursor, The Flood, and the Acceleration of Evolution V2.2!

Twelve Large ²

An army of sheep led by a lion would defeat an army of lions led by a sheep.

I still have trouble seeing how the precursors could have been so elite, yet could have been so desperate as to mess around with the flood, who, in theory, wasn't "yet" the flood, but simply a squigly thing that allowed the uber precursor to not be so God damn emo when their loved one died. I get the feeling the universe would have been passed that before anyone else was given one - A pass, that is. Then again, maybe those who become elite with the universe are supper -blam!- who have their "uni pass" credit card chopped up by the flood. TFDIK?

[Edited on 07.25.2009 5:08 AM PDT]

  • 07.25.2009 5:07 AM PDT
Subject: The Precursor, The Flood, and the Acceleration of Evolution (V2)

BAM! said the lady

I have a theory of my own that could tie into yours snakie: A Higher Form than the Gravemind

i have read your theory The Precursor, The Flood, and the Acceleration of Evolution finally
i just wanted to tell you a bit of what i believe
i think that there is a higher form than Gravemind in another galaxy, which would explain the Gravemind on Installation 05 keeping memories from thousands of years back.
however it would cancel out the Graveminds sentience
imagine a Halo installation. the monitor would be the higher flood form and sentinels would be Gravemind
This all would mean that when the Gravemind says "I have beaten fleets of thousands!" this couldn't be true as there was no Gravemind after the halos were activated, it means the Gravemind is part of the flood hive mind not the head of it
if your theory is true, when an infected Precursor would be absorbed into a Gravemind, then the Gravemind would transfer the information to the Higher Form
The Higher Form would speak through the Gravemind and use it much like the UNSC use a dumb AI

This theory could even go to the point of the flood and precursor working together to defeat the Forerunners, who would've left the precursors, which could even mean the precursors are still alive

  • 07.25.2009 6:57 AM PDT
Subject: The Precursor, The Flood, and the Acceleration of Evolution V2.2!
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: Twelve Large
I still have trouble seeing how the precursors could have been so elite, yet could have been so desperate as to mess around with the flood, who, in theory, wasn't "yet" the flood, but simply a squigly thing that allowed the uber precursor to not be so God damn emo when their loved one died. I get the feeling the universe would have been passed that before anyone else was given one - A pass, that is. Then again, maybe those who become elite with the universe are supper -blam!- who have their "uni pass" credit card chopped up by the flood. TFDIK?

Many people continue to view this theory in a very incorrect way. It's not that the Precursor were desperate; they weren't desperate at all. They were scientifically experimenting to try to reach a goal, possibly two goals: the creation of an entity that could catalog their information, and the creation of an entity that was immune to rampancy, because it was a living AI.

Stop looking at it like it's desperation, that's all I can really suggest. I've never viewed it as a "desperate" move, it's always just been... there. Not desperate or unnecessarily slow, just scientific progress that turned out wrong, albeit likely only years and years after it was deemed a success.

  • 07.25.2009 11:48 AM PDT

So what you're trying to say is that the flood are not as such robotic AI but more of a mindless drone who have the traits and purpose of an AI?

  • 07.25.2009 3:12 PM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: Alfdog
So what you're trying to say is that the flood are not as such robotic AI but more of a mindless drone who have the traits and purpose of an AI?

Er... no. I'm suggesting that the Gravemind exists as an organic AI. It's got the same traits of an AI, but the Gravemind was an attempt to escape the boundaries of an artificial AI, rampancy.

  • 07.25.2009 4:15 PM PDT

Posted by: Lord Snakie
Posted by: Alfdog
So what you're trying to say is that the flood are not as such robotic AI but more of a mindless drone who have the traits and purpose of an AI?

Er... no. I'm suggesting that the Gravemind exists as an organic AI. It's got the same traits of an AI, but the Gravemind was an attempt to escape the boundaries of an artificial AI, rampancy.


But what I'm saying is the flood aren't robtic in the sense of an AI but flesh and bone with the mental capability of an AI? Or am I getting confused again?

  • 07.26.2009 12:31 AM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: Alfdog
But what I'm saying is the flood aren't robtic in the sense of an AI but flesh and bone with the mental capability of an AI? Or am I getting confused again?

Yes, you're correct here. The Gravemind would be an organic entity, not a machine, with the capabilities of an AI.

  • 07.26.2009 10:16 AM PDT

epic winner.

This theroy makes quite a bit of sense, that is until some bungie team member throws some information that fraks everything up....


It's a pretty old plot device, anyone remember the book I-Robot? (also a movie with will smith..)

  • 07.27.2009 11:59 AM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: phleon
This theroy makes quite a bit of sense, that is until some bungie team member throws some information that fraks everything up....

A one-time thing might be a destructive thing for a more... well, fact-based theory, but for a theory like this, it's probably going to be a more gradual introduction of fact that dooms it, unless somebody outright says "no". And that's if it's doomed at all. Although that's likely.

  • 07.27.2009 11:41 PM PDT

My troll sense is tingling.

One of the best Halo theories I've seen.

  • 07.28.2009 5:46 AM PDT