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  • Subject: The Precursor, The Flood, and the Acceleration of Evolution V2.2!
Subject: The Precursor, The Flood, and the Acceleration of Evolution V2.2!
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Seven is the greatest number. It's got references everywhere! And it wouldn't surprise me if it was the answer to existance. (42 is in the 7 times table, all you hitchhikers fans will know.)

Snakie, when are you going to come up with another brilliant theory!
If not, i may get withdrawl symptoms.

  • 08.01.2009 5:20 AM PDT

Posted by: darthnazgul
The precursor, Forerunner, Humans and the whole take up the mantle thing sounds an awful lot like Mass Effect. O_o


Well good thing Halo came out nearly a decade before Mass Effect...

  • 08.01.2009 9:00 AM PDT
Subject: The Precursor, The Flood, and the Acceleration of Evolution V2.5!

I like to derp and stuff. I have a YouTube channel~

Derp

this has really helped me understand the Flood and Forerunners in much more depth. Thanks. thread saved

  • 08.03.2009 12:52 PM PDT
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this is (expletive deleted) amazing


I love this theory, I love that a video game has spawned such an amazingly complex canon, and I love that you put so much thought into piecing it all together

this was an excellent read, Bungie should be proud to have fans like you

the first theory about the flood I like the best, the use of them as a biological catalogue of the dead's thoughts and memories, it just works so nicely,









kudos to you.

  • 08.05.2009 12:45 PM PDT
Subject: The Precursor, The Flood, and the Acceleration of Evolution (V2)

I absolutely love your Flood origin theory. Having been created by the Precursers as tools for the survival of their thoughts seems to be very possible.

It also sheds light upon certain things, as you have mentioned: such as the name GraveMind.

  • 08.08.2009 12:49 AM PDT
Subject: The Precursor, The Flood, and the Acceleration of Evolution V2.2!
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Some can come away from reading "War and Peace" thinking it a simple adventure story, while others can read the ingredients on a gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe.

"Is this the noble sacrifice my creators spoke of? Where is the nobility in these streets paved with greasy carbon and dun ash? [My mouth is speaking at another's behest] - that is not my voice; that is the other.

Its voice stands out as the single calm note in the panicked cacophony outside the sphere. It alone is not decrying its fate or raging against the [central government].

This anomaly bears closer examination."

It just occurred to me this isn't solid proof. If you remember cortana in Halo3 says allot of weired stuff. One being something like "This is UNSC AI serial number something something. I am a monument to all of your sins"

Now in the message you get the idea the gravemind is controlling MB. Making him say something else. That may be the case but its what he says. Remember The gravemid wants to turn MB to his side. So the way I see it is hes speaking about and exploiting the AI's own doubts and thoughts. There would be no reason to control him just to chat about where he came from. From the rest off the series you can tell he dosent even think it important you know.

The Grave mind is trying to create doubt in MB. Kind of like in those cartoons where theres a angel on one shoulder and a demon on the other. The Gravemind in this particular case is empahsising all the innocent dying on the planet. If they where instead consumed they wouldn't be truly dead. And for what? To delay the inevitable?All will perish eventually, why make unnecessary sacrifices? like he says, what is so noble about destroying entire planets in an ill fated attempt to slow the growth of the flood?
Slowly turning him against his allies like palpatine and anakin in star wars if you will.
that is what the gravemind is saying to me.

  • 08.11.2009 4:12 PM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: Agustus
It's certainly a possibility, but you have to remember the Gravemind's nature, and Cortana's own nature. Those transmissions could have been garbled attempts to warn the chief, or it could have been actual transmissions from the Gravemind. But the Gravemind was in direct proximity to Cortana when such things occurred, not thousands of lightyears away. MendicantBias didn't even know what the thing was, how could the Gravemind have manipulated it?

You're correct in believing it isn't solid proof; rarely is anything ever solid. But it's still backing, more than there was before.

  • 08.11.2009 4:27 PM PDT
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Posted by: Lord Snakie
Posted by: Agustus
It's certainly a possibility, but you have to remember the Gravemind's nature, and Cortana's own nature. Those transmissions could have been garbled attempts to warn the chief, or it could have been actual transmissions from the Gravemind. But the Gravemind was in direct proximity to Cortana when such things occurred, not thousands of lightyears away. MendicantBias didn't even know what the thing was, how could the Gravemind have manipulated it?

You're correct in believing it isn't solid proof; rarely is anything ever solid. But it's still backing, more than there was before.


By that post you just disproved your idea about the terminal. The gravemind obviously hacked the system somehow, or else the idea that the gravemind is talking is deystryed. So we know it did hack the system. Maybe because MB is located on many ships and locations tapping into just one would result in a brief system hijack. Ans we know it did because MB says "my mouth is speaking at another's behest.

O and on another note about the graveminds name. It was named the Gravemind by either the covenant or UNSC. Its first used in Halo 2 when nobody new anything about the precursors so it makes no sense that it called gravemind because of your theory. Therefore dosent support it at all.

  • 08.11.2009 7:05 PM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: Agustus
By that post you just disproved your idea about the terminal. The gravemind obviously hacked the system somehow, or else the idea that the gravemind is talking is deystryed. So we know it did hack the system. Maybe because MB is located on many ships and locations tapping into just one would result in a brief system hijack. Ans we know it did because MB says "my mouth is speaking at another's behest.

Not at all. A transmission from the Gravemind could have placed the entry into Mendicant Bias' audio logs without actually coming from Bias. And, as you said, he could still have infected a particular ship commanded by Bias and issued the transmission.

O and on another note about the graveminds name. It was named the Gravemind by either the covenant or UNSC. Its first used in Halo 2 when nobody new anything about the precursors so it makes no sense that it called gravemind because of your theory. Therefore dosent support it at all.
The Gravemind itself could have told the Forerunner its name when the Flood first encountered them. It's possible that it was in its arrogant stage when it first encountered the Forerunner, and it wanted them to know the name of their doom.

  • 08.11.2009 9:14 PM PDT
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Posted by: Lord Snakie
Posted by: Agustus
By that post you just disproved your idea about the terminal. The gravemind obviously hacked the system somehow, or else the idea that the gravemind is talking is deystryed. So we know it did hack the system. Maybe because MB is located on many ships and locations tapping into just one would result in a brief system hijack. Ans we know it did because MB says "my mouth is speaking at another's behest.

Not at all. A transmission from the Gravemind could have placed the entry into Mendicant Bias' audio logs without actually coming from Bias. And, as you said, he could still have infected a particular ship commanded by Bias and issued the transmission.

O and on another note about the graveminds name. It was named the Gravemind by either the covenant or UNSC. Its first used in Halo 2 when nobody new anything about the precursors so it makes no sense that it called gravemind because of your theory. Therefore dosent support it at all.
The Gravemind itself could have told the Forerunner its name when the Flood first encountered them. It's possible that it was in its arrogant stage when it first encountered the Forerunner, and it wanted them to know the name of their doom.


The transition thing is the most likely. Buut it still requirs some form of hacking to make Bias say it. In that way it dosent prove or disprove any of the two things it could mean. As for the Gravemind it is entirely possible it said its name.

  • 08.11.2009 9:21 PM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: Agustus
The transition thing is the most likely. Buut it still requirs some form of hacking to make Bias say it. In that way it dosent prove or disprove any of the two things it could mean.

Nay. If it was an audio log played near Mendicant Bias, or sent over a Forerunner frequency, it could have been recorded on one of his audio logs without him ever saying anything of the sort. Although that's not the most probable, it's possible.

The other possibility, of course, is some sort of system manipulation.

  • 08.11.2009 9:43 PM PDT
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Posted by: Lord Snakie
Posted by: Agustus
The transition thing is the most likely. Buut it still requirs some form of hacking to make Bias say it. In that way it dosent prove or disprove any of the two things it could mean.

Nay. If it was an audio log played near Mendicant Bias, or sent over a Forerunner frequency, it could have been recorded on one of his audio logs without him ever saying anything of the sort. Although that's not the most probable, it's possible.

The other possibility, of course, is some sort of system manipulation.


It makes sense because like you said mediciant didnt even know of the gravemind yet, therefore didnt prepare firewall type protections. Thus was easily hacked.

  • 08.11.2009 11:08 PM PDT

Posted by: Agustus
Thus was easily hacked.


No.
You're not looking at the Terminal transmission close enough, specifically the wording. Keep in mind that this is an AI of Forerunner design and thus very particular in the way it communicates.
The sentence is [My mouth is speaking at another's behest] - that is not my voice; that is the other.
Webster's defines Behest as an "authoritative command or urgent request." In this case, it's being used as the later. At the request of the Gravemind, Mendicant Bias is passing along a message to it's Forerunner masters.
There is no hacking involved, at least not the brute-force programming you're referring to. Yes, the Gravemind is attempting to convert MB to his way of thinking but this message was played entirely by MB's own volition.
The means by which it is transmitted is moot. Whether the Gravemind stole a ship or is magically planting it in MB's data banks, the point remains that it is not forcing MB's hand.

This is in support of the original theory, not refute it as you claim.

  • 08.12.2009 5:33 AM PDT
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Posted by: SpoonGuard
Posted by: Agustus
Thus was easily hacked.


No.
You're not looking at the Terminal transmission close enough, specifically the wording. Keep in mind that this is an AI of Forerunner design and thus very particular in the way it communicates.
The sentence is [My mouth is speaking at another's behest] - that is not my voice; that is the other.
Webster's defines Behest as an "authoritative command or urgent request." In this case, it's being used as the later. At the request of the Gravemind, Mendicant Bias is passing along a message to it's Forerunner masters.
There is no hacking involved, at least not the brute-force programming you're referring to. Yes, the Gravemind is attempting to convert MB to his way of thinking but this message was played entirely by MB's own volition.
The means by which it is transmitted is moot. Whether the Gravemind stole a ship or is magically planting it in MB's data banks, the point remains that it is not forcing MB's hand.

This is in support of the original theory, not refute it as you claim.


Your idea about behest makes sense. No argument there (although initially behest sounds more forced). But you also have to remember that many times the gravemind attempts to persuade you not to fight, give in.

Do I take life or give it? Who is victim, and who is foe?

Do not be afraid, I am peace, I am salvation


To me this sounds like it has the same intention MB's message would have. The Gravemind is saying what is the point of razing so many worlds whe he could only be slowed. Why sacrifice so many when all can be saved (from his point of view)? The Gravemind is always trying to create uncertanty and doubt. To me this is nothing more than that. Whats the point in chatting with the forerunners now about his past and origins when he obviously (before and after) didnt give a rats ass about it in other encounters/opportunities ? Besides what does he gain from it? Especially when the forerunners would have no idea what he is talking of. It would seem if h where talking to himself.

Im not doubting the flood is a Bi-product of the flood (somehow), far from that. I just don't think this message proves a thing as it can be seen from many different percpectives. You just automatically adopt the "meaning" and "purpose" that backs this theory.

  • 08.12.2009 8:16 AM PDT

Man i love reading all these theory ideas it makes the Halo franchise seem more then fight the covenant *think i spelt it wrong* I love your whole idea of the flood and all, i think you and everyone else who has these amazing theory's should like said before make a religion i think people will follow =D *cough cough me*

  • 08.12.2009 10:07 AM PDT
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Posted by: rebel92
Man i love reading all these theory ideas it makes the Halo franchise seem more then fight the covenant *think i spelt it wrong* I love your whole idea of the flood and all, i think you and everyone else who has these amazing theory's should like said before make a religion i think people will follow =D *cough cough me*


Bsed on a video game series? WTF?

  • 08.12.2009 2:54 PM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: Agustus
It's not so much "proof" as "massive backing". In almost every single manner it can be taken, it shows that the Gravemind was a created entity. There are a few interpretations that can cast doubt on the end meaning of the phrase, but nevertheless it is clear that most interpretations point to the end that we suggest, we being SpoonGuard and myself.

Most of the "proof" of theories isn't definitive, it just fits well to support a theory. This is the same way, but you must admit that the logical course points to its support of the idea, and it's useful to include as backing information.

  • 08.12.2009 5:49 PM PDT
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Some can come away from reading "War and Peace" thinking it a simple adventure story, while others can read the ingredients on a gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe.

Posted by: Lord Snakie
Posted by: Agustus
It's not so much "proof" as "massive backing". In almost every single manner it can be taken, it shows that the Gravemind was a created entity. There are a few interpretations that can cast doubt on the end meaning of the phrase, but nevertheless it is clear that most interpretations point to the end that we suggest, we being SpoonGuard and myself.

Most of the "proof" of theories isn't definitive, it just fits well to support a theory. This is the same way, but you must admit that the logical course points to its support of the idea, and it's useful to include as backing information.


It supports your theory if interpreted in a singe way. As well as mine in a signal way. And yes you should post it because of that. I realized Bungie probably makes everything uncertain just to keep us guessing. There is no proof so we can't possibly accurately predict future plots.

  • 08.12.2009 7:40 PM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: Agustus
It supports your theory if interpreted in a singe way. As well as mine in a signal way. And yes you should post it because of that. I realized Bungie probably makes everything uncertain just to keep us guessing. There is no proof so we can't possibly accurately predict future plots.

It supports my theory in two ways (or more) compared to the one that supports you. It's got a higher probability of fitting mine than yours, but that's all I'm saying.

  • 08.12.2009 7:47 PM PDT
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Some can come away from reading "War and Peace" thinking it a simple adventure story, while others can read the ingredients on a gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe.

Posted by: Lord Snakie
Posted by: Agustus
It supports your theory if interpreted in a singe way. As well as mine in a signal way. And yes you should post it because of that. I realized Bungie probably makes everything uncertain just to keep us guessing. There is no proof so we can't possibly accurately predict future plots.

It supports my theory in two ways (or more) compared to the one that supports you. It's got a higher probability of fitting mine than yours, but that's all I'm saying.


Elaborate.

  • 08.12.2009 8:08 PM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: Agustus
Elaborate.

If the Gravemind sent a transmission and it was recorded on Mendicant Bias' logs or caused himself to speak through Mendicant, it helps the theory. In your case, it only harms the theory if the Gravemind was more or less corrupting Mendicant.

  • 08.12.2009 11:24 PM PDT
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Some can come away from reading "War and Peace" thinking it a simple adventure story, while others can read the ingredients on a gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe.

Posted by: Lord Snakie
Posted by: Agustus
Elaborate.

If the Gravemind sent a transmission and it was recorded on Mendicant Bias' logs or caused himself to speak through Mendicant, it helps the theory. In your case, it only harms the theory if the Gravemind was more or less corrupting Mendicant.


Obvoiusly he is saying something threw mediciant. Thats what I see. But that dosent mean hes saying anything about his past. What purpose would it be telling it to mediciant? None. But acting as mediciants "devil" has purposes. Voicing his doubts and thoughts has significance. It would help him corrupt medeciant. He gains nothing else from the situation.

  • 08.13.2009 3:43 PM PDT

Wow what an incredible exchange of ideas! This is a great, well thought out theory.

I feel like I'm reading Ascendant Justice's Terminal articles again!

  • 08.13.2009 6:49 PM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: T SmokeyJoe
Wow what an incredible exchange of ideas! This is a great, well thought out theory.

I feel like I'm reading Ascendant Justice's Terminal articles again!

I wish there was more exchanging of ideas, to be honest. For a few pages there we had some really great stuff going on, and then it was... quiet.

Thanks for the support. Please check back regularly and help out with discussion!

  • 08.14.2009 4:00 PM PDT
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Some can come away from reading "War and Peace" thinking it a simple adventure story, while others can read the ingredients on a gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe.

Posted by: Lord Snakie
Posted by: T SmokeyJoe
Wow what an incredible exchange of ideas! This is a great, well thought out theory.

I feel like I'm reading Ascendant Justice's Terminal articles again!

I wish there was more exchanging of ideas, to be honest. For a few pages there we had some really great stuff going on, and then it was... quiet.

Thanks for the support. Please check back regularly and help out with discussion!


Im trying to get this less quit here. To me it looks like the gravemind was corrupting mediciant by speaking through it. Mediciant was a contender AI. Sneaking something into a voice log is primitive. This suggests that there was some kind of hacking involved. Now mediciant was separated into multiple ships. If the gravemind was able to tap into just one of them he could acsses the entire system.

  • 08.15.2009 11:04 AM PDT