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This topic has moved here: Subject: The Precursor, The Flood, and the Acceleration of Evolution: V2.5
  • Subject: The Precursor, The Flood, and the Acceleration of Evolution: V2.5
Subject: The Precursor, The Flood, and the Acceleration of Evolution: V2.5
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Posted by: Lord Snakie
Posted by: SPAR7ANB71
As far as we know, we have no idea how the precursors traveled between galaxies. We just know that they could. It most likely requires a lot of precision and accuracy. In the games, we have all noticed the flood are not very graceful at piloting ships. They could have sent thousands of ships loaded with technology to the milky way, but because of their inaccuracy, only a couple actually made to the destination, with the rest of the fleet completely passing by.

Then again, distances that large would be handled by computers, so the the accuracy of the computer wouldn't change depending on who was the pilot.

In all truthfulness, I think that this is one of the more important considerations that has been passed over throughout the lifespan of this theory. Nobody asks why the Flood don't have Precursor technology, and nobody asks what that technology is like.

As for myself, I have no better guess than anyone else. I don't even have a possible answer for why they don't have the tech. I think that the technology, to be honest, is the biggest hole this theory has.


Well we know that the flood where discovered on the moon of a planet. So heres a scenario that could explain why.

Precursor ship enters slip-space fleeing a a plant that was invaded by the flood. But before they managed to take off a flood spore or a few infectious forms climbed on. The crew was infected while in Cryo sleep. A photo Gravemind grew to take control of the ship. A ship AI begun fighting against the flood presence. The computer systems and slip drive engine failed at one point. The ship exited slip space crash landing on that planet, which is full of life.

The ship being completely destroyed and the planet totally consumed. Over the next (thousands or millions?) years the flood would slowly lose nutrients. Parts of the Graveminds memories would be destroyed as various physical parts decay and enter hibernation. It would be further damaged by hibernation as natural weather forces continue pulverizing at any flood remains. We know this is fact because in Halo : The Flood the infectious form that attacked Jenkins was damaged from hibernation.

The Forerunner stumble upon the incomplete remains and the Forerunner Flood war begins. The Flood doesn't remember most of the Pre-cursor technology and doesn't have the material itself.

I also have a theory about how the Grave-mind "thinks", which is related to your rampancy paragraph. Could the flood consider recreating Precursor technology a "sin"? Could it have an ancient grudge against the precursor ad deem all there inventions as "heresy?".

How I see it:
The Precursor created the flood either for gain as you say, or purely experimental. Now the flood has a need to feed and consume. Its there DNA. We know this because the flood automatically attacks all other life when no gravemind is present. They have no real thought. They just follow instinct. They cannot co-exist with other life.

The Precursors create the flood. Once it reaches full sentient, you say it realizes its being used. Thats where I disagree. Could the flood have realized that and more?

Today we argue against scientific advancement. Should we make human clones? Should we experiment on animals? This is what I think the Grave-mind would have thought.

Did the precursors have the right to create him? An abomination to the natural order? A creature that could not co-exist with others? The flood would have become angry. Rampant. He had been brought into a painful existents by those who deemed themselves gods. They melded with life and affairs that should be considered nothing less than sin. He was the Bi-product of that sin. Cursed to exist in a universe he did not belong. Unable to die. Unable to live.

He would grow to hate his creators. He would despise there arrogance, there pride. He later see's this in the Forerunners. Who are they to tamper with such thins as life itself?

He would escape his prison and consume all. Taking every life, cleansing all sin. Until none was left. He would spend millennia reflecting (my TC thingy thread Snakie). And realize that he had solved sin with sin. And he would excuse himself with lies. Lies he would himself start to believe. "I am the next stage of evolution".

His anger will be reawakened when seeing the last precursors, or at leas what he believes to be precursors (see Wolverfrogs thread). And he would continue his age long hunt.


Child of my enemy why have you come? I offer no forgiveness. A fathers sins pass to his son...

[Edited on 09.04.2009 5:56 PM PDT]

  • 09.04.2009 2:55 PM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: Agustus
That's... entirely too specific for me to say anything but "it's possible" to.

I don't think the Flood, if they're driven purely by hunger, would have a problem using their maker's technology to gain more sustenance. I think that something would have to have happened to the majority of technology either before or after the Flood made their way to the Milky Way, and after seems to be easier explained than before. But they're both difficult, and we just don't have the knowledge to do anything but guess at this point.

  • 09.04.2009 4:38 PM PDT
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That is a very large wall but you know what i liked it good work =-)

  • 09.05.2009 7:18 PM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: xNACHOVEZx
i don't think the flood has anything to do with the precursors. the flood was not from this galaxy, they arrived to this galaxy 100,000 years ago, at the time of the forerunners.

And the Precursor seem to be extra-galactic too, don't they?

Please endeavor to read a theory in its entirety and understand it before you reply, or please consider what you are saying while you are replying. This response clearly illustrates either an incomplete read of the material, or a lack of understanding for the material.

  • 09.05.2009 8:54 PM PDT
Subject: The Precursor, The Flood, and the Acceleration of Evolution (V2)

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  • 09.05.2009 10:01 PM PDT

When the dust settles, you will learn what true terror is.

It's also possible that the Flood had infected a lot of Precursor ships that did not have such failsafes as the "precursors-only" protocols. In the Forerunner-Flood war the Flood would infect commercial and recreational vessels as well as military ones. Why would recreational ships have the kind of technology to identify who was using them?

It's possible that once the Flood had "consumed a galaxy of flesh and mind and bone" it sent its millions of vessels out on random or pseudo-random trajectories to spread to other galaxies, since it had successfully "evolved" all life within its home galaxy and fulfilled its purpose there. I mean, if the Flood needs to absorb to avoid hibernation, and they had absorbed the entire galaxy, then obviously they need to move on to other galaxies to continue to survive.

  • 09.06.2009 11:27 AM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: General Khazard
It's also possible that the Flood had infected a lot of Precursor ships that did not have such failsafes as the "precursors-only" protocols. In the Forerunner-Flood war the Flood would infect commercial and recreational vessels as well as military ones. Why would recreational ships have the kind of technology to identify who was using them?

It's possible that once the Flood had "consumed a galaxy of flesh and mind and bone" it sent its millions of vessels out on random or pseudo-random trajectories to spread to other galaxies, since it had successfully "evolved" all life within its home galaxy and fulfilled its purpose there. I mean, if the Flood needs to absorb to avoid hibernation, and they had absorbed the entire galaxy, then obviously they need to move on to other galaxies to continue to survive.

I've thought about this before. Kinda like an ant or termite colony, the new queens and kings fly away and find territory away from the parent colony to call their own.

It makes sense, in a way, but it's also not the entire answer. What happened to the ship or ships that made their way to the Milky Way? Why did the Flood never display the ability to create technology that their roots as Precursor must have inevitably made possible? Why only a ship or two, rather than the entire collective moving in one direction, cutting an unstoppable path from galaxy to galaxy?

If I were a super-sentient or trans-sentient being and I wanted food, I would travel as a group, using the full knowledge and might of the collective to ensure that new hosts were taken and more galaxies were made devoid of life, ensuring that no one splinter group could be stopped. Because, once a group is stopped, the race that stopped them inevitably gains a heightened ability to combat them. The Forerunner, for example; if they had survived the war and beaten the Flood, they would have had an increased ability to combat new colonies that headed for the Milky Way in the future. Spreading the colonies thin makes it possible for counter-races to spring up.

But then again, on the flip side, you must wonder what would happen to the Flood that survived, that rampaged from galaxy to galaxy. What have they become? What new Pure forms can they harness? What are their numbers, and their intelligence?

I suppose it's true that spreading out and colonizing widely has its advantages as well as disadvantages, but I wonder if it would have made sense for the Gravemind to take such a risk. If a race rose up, like the Forerunner did, and learned to fight them, it could mean a loss of everything.

I don't know. Pieces, to me, still don't fit.

  • 09.06.2009 11:38 AM PDT
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Some can come away from reading "War and Peace" thinking it a simple adventure story, while others can read the ingredients on a gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe.

Posted by: Lord Snakie
Posted by: General Khazard
It's also possible that the Flood had infected a lot of Precursor ships that did not have such failsafes as the "precursors-only" protocols. In the Forerunner-Flood war the Flood would infect commercial and recreational vessels as well as military ones. Why would recreational ships have the kind of technology to identify who was using them?

It's possible that once the Flood had "consumed a galaxy of flesh and mind and bone" it sent its millions of vessels out on random or pseudo-random trajectories to spread to other galaxies, since it had successfully "evolved" all life within its home galaxy and fulfilled its purpose there. I mean, if the Flood needs to absorb to avoid hibernation, and they had absorbed the entire galaxy, then obviously they need to move on to other galaxies to continue to survive.

I've thought about this before. Kinda like an ant or termite colony, the new queens and kings fly away and find territory away from the parent colony to call their own.

It makes sense, in a way, but it's also not the entire answer. What happened to the ship or ships that made their way to the Milky Way? Why did the Flood never display the ability to create technology that their roots as Precursor must have inevitably made possible? Why only a ship or two, rather than the entire collective moving in one direction, cutting an unstoppable path from galaxy to galaxy?

If I were a super-sentient or trans-sentient being and I wanted food, I would travel as a group, using the full knowledge and might of the collective to ensure that new hosts were taken and more galaxies were made devoid of life, ensuring that no one splinter group could be stopped. Because, once a group is stopped, the race that stopped them inevitably gains a heightened ability to combat them. The Forerunner, for example; if they had survived the war and beaten the Flood, they would have had an increased ability to combat new colonies that headed for the Milky Way in the future. Spreading the colonies thin makes it possible for counter-races to spring up.

But then again, on the flip side, you must wonder what would happen to the Flood that survived, that rampaged from galaxy to galaxy. What have they become? What new Pure forms can they harness? What are their numbers, and their intelligence?

I suppose it's true that spreading out and colonizing widely has its advantages as well as disadvantages, but I wonder if it would have made sense for the Gravemind to take such a risk. If a race rose up, like the Forerunner did, and learned to fight them, it could mean a loss of everything.

I don't know. Pieces, to me, still don't fit.



A single flood spore can destroy a species. If it was not for the arbiters consul, I would have Glassed your entire planet!


You have to think in this way. There are more galaxys than there are grains of sand on the Earth. The Flood would have spread to all of them, or at least as many as it could. Splitting up to conquer faster. D

Divide and Conquer.

You barley survived a small infestation

That one planet was enough to bring the Forerunner to there knees. And still remnant's survived to be unleashed latter. It would be more logical to simply spread out than focus on one galaxy at a time.

You must also remember that the Precursors themselves resided in multiple galaxy's. How many? Who knows. But I think the flood simply died out and entered hibernation before encountering new life. Sure theres billions of Galaxy's but the odds of every one having advance galactic civilizations is very limited. They may have a quite a few planets with life but finding just one would take millennium. By which time the flood would fall into hibernation and the ship would either drift forever or crash land. destroying all tech with it.

Now are you asking why the flood doesn't gather resources, build factories, and recreate the technology? Well the floods goal is to consume everything as quickly as possible. They have a constant hunger. Sitting tight and making stuff wouldn't be high on the list. They would want to get right to it. Besides, its not very zombie like.


:D

  • 09.06.2009 12:50 PM PDT
Subject: The Precursor, The Flood, and the Acceleration of Evolution: V2.5
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: Agustus
You have to think in this way. There are more galaxys than there are grains of sand on the Earth. The Flood would have spread to all of them, or at least as many as it could. Splitting up to conquer faster.

Divide and Conquer.

That's true, but, again, I wonder why he would have taken that chance. If any civilization had actually been able to stop them and learn from them, the Flood might be doomed in the future.

Now are you asking why the flood doesn't gather resources, build factories, and recreate the technology? Well the floods goal is to consume everything as quickly as possible. They have a constant hunger. Sitting tight and making stuff wouldn't be high on the list. They would want to get right to it. Besides, its not very zombie like.
I'm not saying that so much as I'm wondering why they didn't keep the Precursor ship they had working, why they didn't build a ship while they were on that planet's moon to get out of the system, et cetera. You would think that they would have the capability to do something like that, with all their memories and... Floodpower.

[Edited on 09.06.2009 1:01 PM PDT]

  • 09.06.2009 1:01 PM PDT

When the dust settles, you will learn what true terror is.

If you recall from the terminals, the Flood's spread through the galaxy was essentially to just spread out in all directions. Why would this be any different from how they spread from one galaxy to others? Plus, it's a lot better chance of finding life to absorb if they spread out in all directions than by "putting all their eggs in one basket" and traveling as a fleet.

As far as losing the ship they were on, I wouldn't be surprised if they started the ship going then hibernated for the trip, letting the ship itself crash-land wherever it ended up. Sure, they'd lose the ship and the tech, but as has been pointed out, the Flood are potent enough of a threat that it wouldn't even matter if they were techless.

[Edited on 09.06.2009 2:39 PM PDT]

  • 09.06.2009 2:30 PM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: General Khazard
If you recall from the terminals, the Flood's spread through the galaxy was essentially to just spread out in all directions. Why would this be any different from how they spread from one galaxy to others?

That's more-or-less a tactic to keep the Forerunner off-guard, I think. Why not travel together? Strength in numbers, and you prevent yourself by being destroyed or stopped by a civilization (relatively) easily, and prevent that civilization from becoming a Flood-buster.

But, then again, if the Flood spread out in all directions, one colony might become advanced enough to destroy a Flood-buster society....

I just don't know. Both options make sense, but it still doesn't answer where their tech went. Neither do.

As far as losing the ship they were on, I wouldn't be surprised if they started the ship going then hibernated for the trip, letting the ship itself crash-land wherever it ended up. Sure, they'd lose the ship and the tech, but as has been pointed out, the Flood are potent enough of a threat that it wouldn't even matter if they were techless.
The Flood seem to die out quickly if they don't hibernate, and keeping a ship like that powered for what could be ages might've drained their resources. I can see that being a reason, I suppose. That's a pretty specific circumstance, though. Not amazingly so, but low-nutrient Flood going into stasis and letting all of their tech get blown away just seems rather... specific.

[Edited on 09.06.2009 2:50 PM PDT]

  • 09.06.2009 2:35 PM PDT

When the dust settles, you will learn what true terror is.

I edited my last post because I thought of something else. I'll probably edit this one when you respond just so it's not a waste.

  • 09.06.2009 2:40 PM PDT

Freedom has two parts: potential and resolution; as metaphors have two parts : form and interpretation; of course, the two are intertwined. Metaphor lines the road to freedom, as symbols and words are the bricks and mortar of meaning. Freedom being the briocoleus, the mason.
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I think it would be more strategic to spread forces out, because they virtually only need one infection form to destroy a population. So i would imagine they would send one infected ship to each planet/installation and hope for the best.
Posted by: Lad Snorkie
Posted by: General Khazard
If you recall from the terminals, the Flood's spread through the galaxy was essentially to just spread out in all directions. Why would this be any different from how they spread from one galaxy to others?

That's more-or-less a tactic to keep the Forerunner off-guard, I think. Why not travel together? Strength in numbers, and you prevent yourself by being destroyed or stopped by a civilization (relatively) easily, and prevent that civilization from becoming a Flood-buster.

But, then again, if the Flood spread out in all directions, one colony might become advanced enough to destroy a Flood-buster society....

I just don't know. Both options make sense, but it still doesn't answer where their tech went. Neither do.

  • 09.06.2009 2:52 PM PDT

While reading this, I had the nagging feeling something was just a little bit off, and I think it might be because my impression of the Precursors was that they were an inter-dimensional group of beings as opposed to an inter-galactic one. By comparing the Forerunner Civilization Tiers with the Dyson Civilization Classification, we can see parallels begin to form and see that species at the Forerunner level are at best a Class III civilization, utilizing their entire Galaxy for resources, whereas the Precursors would be placed at Class IV or higher, we don't really have enough information to say for sure. Class IV use the entire energy of their Universe, and are exploring Trans-dimensional space (slipstream), so my impression was that the Precursors achieved a state of trans-dimensional, or even Pan-dimensional existence. Trans is much more likely than Pan, which would just seem too much like the Ancients in Stargate, but my point is is since they were at the stage where exploring inter-dimensional existence, it is not only possible but plausible that they achieved such a state since they are nowhere to be found here.

  • 09.06.2009 7:15 PM PDT


As far as losing the ship they were on, I wouldn't be surprised if they started the ship going then hibernated for the trip, letting the ship itself crash-land wherever it ended up. Sure, they'd lose the ship and the tech, but as has been pointed out, the Flood are potent enough of a threat that it wouldn't even matter if they were techless.

The Flood seem to die out quickly if they don't hibernate, and keeping a ship like that powered for what could be ages might've drained their resources. I can see that being a reason, I suppose. That's a pretty specific circumstance, though. Not amazingly so, but low-nutrient Flood going into stasis and letting all of their tech get blown away just seems rather... specific.

then they run the rahter significant risk of crashing into a sun and stand no chance of surviving.

  • 09.06.2009 7:19 PM PDT
Subject: The Precursor, The Flood, and the Acceleration of Evolution (V2)

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  • 09.06.2009 9:27 PM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: Crimius
While reading this, I had the nagging feeling something was just a little bit off, and I think it might be because my impression of the Precursors was that they were an inter-dimensional group of beings as opposed to an inter-galactic one. By comparing the Forerunner Civilization Tiers with the Dyson Civilization Classification, we can see parallels begin to form and see that species at the Forerunner level are at best a Class III civilization, utilizing their entire Galaxy for resources, whereas the Precursors would be placed at Class IV or higher, we don't really have enough information to say for sure. Class IV use the entire energy of their Universe, and are exploring Trans-dimensional space (slipstream), so my impression was that the Precursors achieved a state of trans-dimensional, or even Pan-dimensional existence. Trans is much more likely than Pan, which would just seem too much like the Ancients in Stargate, but my point is is since they were at the stage where exploring inter-dimensional existence, it is not only possible but plausible that they achieved such a state since they are nowhere to be found here.

No information we have suggests that they are trans-dimensional, it merely says they are capable of inter-galactic travel. While it's a lovely idea to consider the possibility that they are trans-dimensional, no information we have even points to it. The closest thing would be "Trans-Sentient", but that =/= "Trans-Dimensional".

Posted by: Crimius
then they run the rahter significant risk of crashing into a sun and stand no chance of surviving.

If a Flood form or two were kept active to ensure the ship didn't do such a thing, it wouldn't be out of the question. A few forms keep dying off to ensure that the ship maintains itself and its course, while the rest hibernate and prepare.

Posted by: Seneka The 5th
A living A.I....
The only way for it to be "perfect," yet the worst way in the same.
You will understand what I'm saying if you do, you won't if you don't.

I... think I... might understand what you're saying. Maybe.

Vague posts are vague.

  • 09.07.2009 6:32 AM PDT
Subject: The Precursor, The Flood, and the Acceleration of Evolution V2.2!

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cool story bro

  • 09.07.2009 10:43 AM PDT

Just rock to the rhythm of the funky Rhyme, So i can get busy just one more time.

i just wanna point out that in halo: CE, Keyes was used as a sort of mini- GraveMind so the flood could organize themselves and run operations better.

  • 09.09.2009 8:40 PM PDT

It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank god that such men lived. ----------- No Bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. (both by George S. Patton jr.)

Did you say that the precursor could accelerate all life (sorry if it's not the exact wording) and didn't one of the forerunner say that because we WERE AT PEACE our technology didn't evolve which DOOMED us to the flood and isn't that what basically accelerates LIFE so are the precursors the flood?
also is there more then all the stuff you said at the beginning?

[Edited on 09.10.2009 4:57 PM PDT]

  • 09.10.2009 4:55 PM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: crazypandarmada
Did you say that the precursor could accelerate all life (sorry if it's not the exact wording) and didn't one of the forerunner say that because we WERE AT PEACE our technology didn't evolve which DOOMED us to the flood and isn't that what basically accelerates LIFE so are the precursors the flood?

Uhhh... what?

also is there more then all the stuff you said at the beginning?
No more information than what was stated is known about the Precursor.

  • 09.10.2009 5:11 PM PDT
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Some can come away from reading "War and Peace" thinking it a simple adventure story, while others can read the ingredients on a gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe.

All natural and military laws agree, spreading out is the best option.


A dandelion creates many seeds that float away randomly. Most die, but the ones that survive make up for the loss. This is more effective than a plant focusing all attention on a single seed that may or might not survive. The odds are better with many, less perfect ones.

The flood would know this and utilize his vast number to spread out into the vast regions of space. We know the Covenant treat are technology as heresy, might the flood do the same with the precursors? Damning his creators and everything that stands testament to there existence?


That may or not make sense to you.

My Monument thread will explain my thoughts more clearly.

  • 09.10.2009 6:09 PM PDT

It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank god that such men lived. ----------- No Bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. (both by George S. Patton jr.)

what im trying to say is what if the precursor are the flood because the only way you can accelerate life (example technology) is to be at war

look up inventions of the US civil war i think there was at least 100

  • 09.11.2009 1:51 PM PDT