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This topic has moved here: Subject: The Precursor, The Flood, and the Acceleration of Evolution: V2.6
  • Subject: The Precursor, The Flood, and the Acceleration of Evolution: V2.6
Subject: The Precursor, The Flood, and the Acceleration of Evolution: V2.6

Will test for snacks!

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As far as I know, the neural implants don't do that. They might monitor vital statistics about you, but the actual HUD is always mentioned as an external device, such as a Spartan's visor, a marine's helmet, or Dr. Halsey's glasses.

  • 03.04.2010 5:28 PM PDT

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Posted by: crakapleez911
As far as I know, the neural implants don't do that. They might monitor vital statistics about you, but the actual HUD is always mentioned as an external device, such as a Spartan's visor, a marine's helmet, or Dr. Halsey's glasses.
Because I'm expecting someone to say this:

EXPLAIN JOHNSON IN ODST THEN!

  • 03.04.2010 5:32 PM PDT
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you're naut cookin'

Posted by: crakapleez911
As far as I know, the neural implants don't do that. They might monitor vital statistics about you, but the actual HUD is always mentioned as an external device, such as a Spartan's visor, a marine's helmet, or Dr. Halsey's glasses.


Capt Keyes Snr reads some files that are marked as "for eyes only" and they are displayed on the retina of the intended reader.

  • 03.04.2010 7:22 PM PDT

Halo Encyclopedia ref: page 26 (Timeline)

150,000 BCE

The Forerunners rise as the preeminent species in the Milky Way Galaxy by advancing technological discoveries gathered from the remnants left by prior ancient races. Believing themselves responsible for the lives of all those less advanced than they, the Forerunners initiate the Mantle, a galactic plan to steward the lesser races of the Galaxy.

As previously mentioned, this could possibly indicate the Precursors were a collection of races and not just a single species, however, failing that it does show the Precursors were not alone at the time.

There may be more clues to find in the Encyclopedia, but as already demonstrated they are not entirely obvious.

  • 03.05.2010 10:04 AM PDT

Will test for snacks!

KOTOR. JOIN.

Posted by: kippa
Posted by: crakapleez911
As far as I know, the neural implants don't do that. They might monitor vital statistics about you, but the actual HUD is always mentioned as an external device, such as a Spartan's visor, a marine's helmet, or Dr. Halsey's glasses.


Capt Keyes Snr reads some files that are marked as "for eyes only" and they are displayed on the retina of the intended reader.


They are projected onto the retina. Meaning the light is directly aimed at the back of the eyeball. It still comes from an external device, not from his implant.

  • 03.05.2010 1:25 PM PDT

http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/blackwaterops/Group/GroupHome.a spx

This is the longest, most detailed theory ever

I agree with all parts

  • 03.06.2010 11:23 AM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

Very interesting but the long term section does have some holes. instead of just posting it here i sent you a PM because I'm not sure if you check up on this post very often and wanted a response.

  • 03.22.2010 10:51 AM PDT
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Your mother jokes. Yeah-yuh.

I think the Flood, Forerunners, and Precursors were all different races, but this is a nice read.

  • 03.23.2010 11:21 PM PDT

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Davey is beyond any shadow of a doubt that red haired F-Blam!- tryhard that would always keep you from seeing the Deku Tree.


[16:45] kalriq: because you're a living legend --<3

I suppose it's time for my obligatory posts.

*Reserved while I quote and reply to each individual article*

(Will be updated later today, multiple posts addressing each section of your OP Snakie.)

[Edited on 03.24.2010 5:10 AM PDT]

  • 03.24.2010 5:09 AM PDT

Posted by: Lord Snakie
On Pure Forms:

Another important thing to consider is the question of Pure Forms. These forms are created when the calcium level of a flood colony reaches a certain point and they are able to "create" their own particular "pure" Flood forms to execute more difficult tasks. This has never been questioned; what is being questioned is where these Pure Forms came from.

While on the subject of Gravemind, let us return to the implications of this theory. The Gravemind was a catalog, and the Precursor were a species hell-bent on preserving life, just like the Forerunner. The Forerunner cataloged races, what's to say the Precursor didn't? What if they cataloged these races inside the Gravemind construct, and he is re-creating long-dead races whose blueprints he has stored permanently in memory to serve the collective that exterminated them? It raises questions on just how "personal" infection is. If a single entity is infected, could multiples of that entity's species be created by the Flood all over the universe to serve them?


Similarities between Halo and The Lord of the Rings:

The question of what exactly the Forerunner are has been brought up many times. One particularly popular idea is that the Forerunner were the only people who were against the creation of the Flood as a storage entity, and all followers of that ideal were sent to the Milky Way galaxy to serve as an outpost colony for the Precursor. When the Precursor were exterminated by the Flood as the Forerunner foretold, the Forerunner were the only Precursor to survive the extermination, changing their name immediately afterword and dedicating themselves to the preservation of life and the rectification of their species' sins.

When you think of it this way, interesting parallels can be drawn between the Halo universe and The Lord of the Rings. In The Lord of the Rings, Elendil, the last honorable Numenorean and a member of the line of Kings, leads his people in flight from Numenor when he learns that the irreverent and corrupted King is plotting to do an unspeakable evil. When this evil is accomplished by the King, the only group left to survive are the Numenoreans that fled from the kingdom of Numenor; the rest of the Numenoreans, along with the land of Numenor itself, were crushed under a massive tidal flood. The Numenoreans in the new land change their title to Gondorians and build great works unaccomplished and impossible by the unskilled and unguided peoples of Middle-Earth. They take these people under their wing, protect them, and fight a great war against an ancient God-like entity (Sauron) that seeks dominion of Middle-Earth. The final catch? This great war is over a set of magical and powerful rings.

What does this mean? Is it mere coincidence, or does it suggest that the Halo universe received inspiration from The Lord of the Rings, and does it suggest that the Forerunner are, indeed, Precursor? Again, we don't know.

(for expanded discussion on this subject, feel free to read The Precursor and Their Three Offspring: an Origins Theory)


Why do the Flood Infect?:

It is generally accepted that the Flood infect beings with enough intelligence and "biomass" and let all other life go, or occasionally adapt some relatively "highly evolved" life forms to serve them, such as Jackals and Grunts as carriers. The question being asked now is, "why"?

Every single piece of material created that I have knowledge of never says that the Flood are out for calcium, it simply says that they infect beings of high enough intelligence and "biomass". I personally wonder what kind of "biomass" is being discussed in this cryptic description. Could it be "neural synapses"?

I believe that it is possible that the Flood infect life because they are programmed to, and still follow the commands of the Precursor (as was discussed in a previous sub-section). But why are they programmed to? Not to reproduce, but to gain knowledge.

Think about the way that the Flood survives. It uses combat forms as the grunts, pure forms as the heavy lifters, and leftover calcium to make more infection forms to create more combat forms to allow the cycle to repeat. Flesh for the combat forms, bone for the calcium for the pure forms and infection forms. But, in one of the final Gravemind lines in Halo 3, it says:

Consumed a galaxy of flesh and mind and bone!
We have the Flesh and the Bone... but what of the mind? I propose that the mind is a branch in the Flood tree that theorists completely and totally disregard, but there is quite some evidence suggesting that it is important, particularly that quote.

I ask you: do you believe is it imperative for the Flood to infect in order for them to receive Calcium, or is it because of programming? Are the Precursor perhaps smarter than we thought, and with an inadequate supply of knowledge the Flood slowly begin to die, an inbuilt auto kill-switch for if the Flood ever got off their leash?

Calcium or Knowledge... or both? In Halo: CE, Captain Keyes was used both for his intelligence and his calcium, and I find it likely the Flood rely on both; it simply makes sense. Calcium to build more of them, intelligence to better themselves and follow their programming.

Are the Flood really still being influenced by the demands of the Precursor, after all that time?


Long-Term Function:

One of the main hiccups to this theory throughout its existence has been how the Flood infected the Precursor, obtained their knowledge, and then lost it as they made their way to the Milky Way galaxy. Recently, an answer to this conundrum has been discovered: organic memory retention in Flood spores.

The Gravemind was always meant to be the central catalog of information in this proposed system, but it is safe to assume that there would be backups, in case the Gravemind was destroyed, or in case the Precursor had need to create another one with similar memories and abilities. Theorists are aware of Flood Spores, the spores that clog the air when a Flood infection is nearby, but we have never really considered their purpose. Most think it is to infect, and this is supported by material from Halo Wars, but it's possible that the spores were also used to house fragments of the knowledge of the Gravemind.

If this is the case, the explanation for how the Flood lost all of their knowledge - and why the Flood were weak (comparatively) in Halo: CE through Halo 3 - has been handed to us. Organic material is known for degradation and decay over time; it is not entirely improbably that the reason the Flood lost much of their ability on coming to the Milky Way is that the first Gravemind they formed only recovered so much information from the original, due to degradation of the Flood Spores brought with the Milky Way infection.

If this is the case, it also explains why the current Gravmind hints that it knows about the Forerunner-Flood war, but cannot produce any significant detail about it. Humans remember general concepts, but not specifics. In the same way, the Gravemind likely lost the majority of the specific information, which is why the Flood is so relatively weak and easy to contain.


Side-Theories:

The Precursor are The Flood:

Several people have the idea that the Precursor evolved themselves until they became The Flood, the epitome of evolution. While I personally don't hold to this theory, it's still very plausible and very interesting. If considered, the Flood are fairly advanced, at least inwardly. A collective mind, no inner-species war, no theft. War outside, yes, but that's out of necessity. An intriguing side-theory, to say the least.


In Closing:

First, I'd like to say thank you all for reading. My theories are nothing without those who read them, the users of this site. I appreciate your patience as I ramble on about something that isn't too likely to be proven.

While this is not the first or longest theory I have created, I find it to be the likeliest (surprisingly). I'm glad those who read it could share in the moment along with me!
On the pure forms you said What if they cataloged these races inside the Gravemind construct, and he is re-creating long-dead races whose blueprints he has stored permanently in memory to serve the collective that exterminated them? i think that your theory could be proved because the gravemind says do i take life? or give it? the give it part might be a reference to how the flood could recreate a species...proving your theory?

  • 03.24.2010 7:55 AM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: golden gargoyle
On the pure forms you said What if they cataloged these races inside the Gravemind construct, and he is re-creating long-dead races whose blueprints he has stored permanently in memory to serve the collective that exterminated them? i think that your theory could be proved because the gravemind says do i take life? or give it? the give it part might be a reference to how the flood could recreate a species...proving your theory

There's quite a bit that the Gravemind could be meaning by that sentence, such as giving "life" to new infection forms by infecting hosts and the surrounding space (IE the infection form spawn pods on High Charity), although we can't be sure. It's possible that it could be used to help support at least that portion of the theory, however.

  • 03.24.2010 12:53 PM PDT

♠NêX♠

Its been a while, and will be again, between posts. Sporadic, I know, but unavoidable.

Partly I want to say that I agree with the idea that the Gravemind is essentially an interface (although not so user-friendly) between the electrical impulses that memories break down into, and their actual tangible images and emotions. This goes a great deal into explaining your theory.

That being said, when the Precursors entrusted their experiences to the Gravemind, was it sentient already? A biological AI to begin with, or was its sentience sprung from their memories like Athena from the head of Zeus? It would seem to make the revolt/uprising/escape/assault of the Flood more understandable if the sentience were gained as a result of its immersion into the minds of a trans-sentient species. It would be akin to the example of (forgive me Tolkien) a hobbit gazing into a palantir and losing his sanity. Therefore, when Gravemind was speaking such things as "Do I take life, or do I give it?" it may not actually be at the Meta-Stable state, but still be perhaps reasoning with, or trying to justify its actions to, itself.

It seems probable to me that such an intelligent species such as the Precursor would have foreseen dangers with entrusting a new species with centuries, perhaps millennia of data in the form of memories, emotions, thoughts, and understanding of technology, and aspects of life. Picture having everything you currently know and suspect and believe, that are based upon your life experiences, shoved into your head all at once when you were but an infant, without those experiences to make sense of the data. Insanity would be soon to follow, but also I think a bit of malevolence towards whoever put you in that state. Gravemind "wakes up" to itself, realizes itself, and that it IS (cogito ergo sum), and perhaps rebels against those who would have constrained it to non-sentience, or, if that is not the case, victimized it in the first place with the burden of their memories.

  • 03.24.2010 7:08 PM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: Sum Vestri NeX
That being said, when the Precursors entrusted their experiences to the Gravemind, was it sentient already? A biological AI to begin with, or was its sentience sprung from their memories like Athena from the head of Zeus? It would seem to make the revolt/uprising/escape/assault of the Flood more understandable if the sentience were gained as a result of its immersion into the minds of a trans-sentient species. It would be akin to the example of (forgive me Tolkien) a hobbit gazing into a palantir and losing his sanity. Therefore, when Gravemind was speaking such things as "Do I take life, or do I give it?" it may not actually be at the Meta-Stable state, but still be perhaps reasoning with, or trying to justify its actions to, itself.

It seems probable to me that such an intelligent species such as the Precursor would have foreseen dangers with entrusting a new species with centuries, perhaps millennia of data in the form of memories, emotions, thoughts, and understanding of technology, and aspects of life. Picture having everything you currently know and suspect and believe, that are based upon your life experiences, shoved into your head all at once when you were but an infant, without those experiences to make sense of the data. Insanity would be soon to follow, but also I think a bit of malevolence towards whoever put you in that state. Gravemind "wakes up" to itself, realizes itself, and that it IS (cogito ergo sum), and perhaps rebels against those who would have constrained it to non-sentience, or, if that is not the case, victimized it in the first place with the burden of their memories.

Yes, that was always the assumption. Never did I presume the Precursor arrogant enough, stupid enough, or even skillful enough to create a sentient entity completely on their own. If we're using Lord of the Rings comparisons here, much like what Morgoth does to the Elves (Orcs) and Ents (Trolls); the Precursor can make a mockery of life, but cannot infuse that mockery with life themselves.

They do, however, give Gravemind to the storage of their memories, which he begins to access and learn from, thus "creating" the Flood as a species, and making its centerpoint the installation of all of the knowledge of its makers.

  • 03.25.2010 1:13 PM PDT

Five years older and wiser
The fires are burning, I'm fire, never tire
Slay warriors in the forests, and on hire

I hope you read the top story about the flood. It has some interesting points, and supports a few of yours too.

  • 03.30.2010 2:12 AM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: ApocalypeX
I hope you read the top story about the flood. It has some interesting points, and supports a few of yours too.

Not really, not too much there we didn't already know about or at least suspect so heavily that it was almost fact. Still interesting, though.

  • 03.30.2010 11:30 AM PDT
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Personally, I always believed the Flood to descend from a common parasitic spore of sorts. Made a fanfic about it, but that's about as far as that idea goes unfortunately.

  • 03.30.2010 10:19 PM PDT
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Posted by: Lord Snakie
Posted by: ApocalypeX
I hope you read the top story about the flood. It has some interesting points, and supports a few of yours too.

Not really, not too much there we didn't already know about or at least suspect so heavily that it was almost fact. Still interesting, though.


Pretty much all covered in the Encyclopedia.

  • 03.30.2010 10:31 PM PDT

That was a very well thought out theory. I agree with all of it even though I am not a person with any clout or significant knowledge on the subject. I am however, a huge fan of the Halo Universe and all the canon and back story. I am logging this theory as fact in my mind. In my log of all Halo events. Thank you. Also sorry if this pops up as a wall because I replied to your original post. Not quite sure how to just post a comment yet.

  • 03.31.2010 8:47 AM PDT

AMAZING WIN!!!!!

I love you so much

  • 04.02.2010 3:46 PM PDT

Posted by: Pot4t0m4n
I love you so much


Just read through the entire thread and this is the only thing I can think of to say.

  • 04.16.2010 10:37 PM PDT

Nor did I up until a few months ago when I had some questions, looked on halopedia and stayed looking for a couple of hours.This theory adds even more (possible) layers to an already deeply layered story.

  • 04.16.2010 11:07 PM PDT

Will test for snacks!

KOTOR. JOIN.

Posted by: Reptilian Rob
Jesus, I never knew Halo had this much a story attached to it.....

Too bad this is fan made speculation, because Bungie could have used this -blam!- when they were trying to push out that turd they called "Halo 3".

This theory was written after Halo 3's launch, so unless you've also been reading some of the time-travel theories around here, no, they couldn't have.

I also disagree with your opinion of Halo 3, but that's another story.

But you're right, Bungie or 343 need to hire Snakie as a writer; and I as a tester, and then again as a 1337 hax software engineer.

[Edited on 04.17.2010 12:30 AM PDT]

  • 04.17.2010 12:26 AM PDT

If Precursor are the Flood...then that gives me the creeps. :/

  • 04.18.2010 5:20 AM PDT