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  • Subject: The Precursor, The Flood, and the Acceleration of Evolution: V2.7
Subject: The Precursor, The Flood, and the Acceleration of Evolution: V2.7
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

WARNING!- This theory is exceedingly large. If you don't like reading, I suggest discretion! In addition, if you are not planning on reading the theory in its entirety (meaning all 3 OPs), please do not respond. It defeats the purpose of all of the information I took the time to write up here for your benefit.

FACTUAL INFORMATION FOOTNOTE- Due to the scant information about the times this theory discusses, most of the theory is comprised of correlative assumption. All the facts that can be gathered, have; I've done the absolute best that I can to show evidence and make the theory fit snugly into the Halo universe, but there's simply not that much to work with despite my effort. I invite you to look past the lack of factual information and view this theory as it should be viewed: a piece of writing designed to not only stimulate your own minds, but evolve with time and information to become closer and closer to the actual events that occurred hundreds of thousands of years ago.

Introduction to the Thread:

Welcome to Version 2.7 of "The Precursor, The Flood, and the Acceleration of Evolution"! One change was made from Version 2.6, the addition of Lord Revan's theory on Precursor and the 4th Dimension added in the Side-Theories section of OP 3.


Acknowledgments:

Here I just want to take a brief moment to salute all of the users that have been with this theory from the beginning, and I'd like to take a moment to turn the spotlight on SpoonGuard in particular.

Spoon has been instrumental with assisting me to defend this theory against nay-sayers and has additionally been instrumental in the production of sub-sections and factual information for the backing of the theory. I'd like to take a moment to salute his dedication and his willingness to see this theory grow, as the major factual backing for this theory is due to his hard research.


Introduction to the Theory:

How could trans-sentient beings be destroyed by anything but other trans-sentient beings? Is it impossible, or just incredibly unlikely? How many trans-sentient species exist, and on what levels? What is trans-sentience in the first place? These are the question that theorists must ask themselves when trying to divine the truth about the Precursor, the mysterious species that came before the Forerunner, possibly even helping to "create" the Milky Way's 100,000 year-old juggernaut.

The Precursor:

The information that we have on the Precursor is sparse; mainly only some information from the Beastiarium bonus content from the special editions of Halo 3 and some rumored hints within the game itself. All that is known about them is as follows:

Tier 0: Trans-sentient: As the [Forerunners] had no examples of civilizations with technological accomplishment greater than themselves - with the exception of the Precursors - this is a theoretical ceiling. They can travel intergalactic and accelerate evolution of intelligent life. These may be creatures of legend.
The absolute most important question at this time is "where are they now"? If they aren't dead, then where are they? What could kill the most intelligent species in more than one galaxy, and if they aren't dead then why didn't they assist the Forerunner or Humanity in their struggle against the Flood? How could the Precursor, the most highly-advanced species known to this galaxy (and likely others), be stopped or destroyed by anything but a similarly advanced society?

Could they have been destroyed by something lesser, with their vast technological resources and almost surely unbelievable knowledge? I believe not; would it have taken something similar to them, incredibly knowing and a possessor of advanced technology, to end them once and for all? What such society could ever come upon the knowledge that they did or come upon the technology that they already had? The answer to this question, my friends, is The Flood.

The Flood:

The Flood have the ability to store the knowledge of anything they infect, and they also have the ability to act on the knowledge that they absorb from an organism. This means that any technology that an infected organism is near can be operated by that organism, provided the host could operate it. In this manner, The Flood could have attained trans-sentience, and the technology and knowledge that comes with that sort of intelligence, by simply killing and infecting one Precursor and discovering how it thinks and interprets information. And it is known from the Iris viral campaign for Halo 3 that the Flood are a trans-galactic organism, the only known species other than the Precursor to attain that kind of ability. How did the Flood obtain this knowledge? Through the Precursor?

Here is the point where half-facts and logical assumption take the full turn into the realm of theory. Let's assume that the Flood gained this momentary knowledge by warring with the Precursors and capturing at least a fragment of their knowledge and their technology. If they did this, if they had this war, how was it begun? The Flood as seen in Halo: CE don't appear to be something that would threaten a trans-sentient species, much less a fully-manned Forerunner outpost... hell, even the Flood in Halo 3 don't seem to have the stuff to take on the Forerunner in a controlled environment. So this begs the question, in what kind of situation could the Flood actually combat and win against the Precursor?

The Flood v. The Precursor:

The primary question to ask is what could the Flood have done to defeat the Precursor? If we assume that the Flood actually attained the trans-galactic drive from the Precursor, then the Flood had to have absorbed information from the Precursors or stolen technology from them and survived, showing that the Precursors either did not care about their losses, lost and retreated, or were completely obliterated.

I do not see the Precursor, the race that is rumored to have given the Forerunner their very mantle to protect life, existing uncaring in the face of a xenoparasite that contains a fragment of their knowledge. I also find it relatively unlikely that they would have retreated, but it is a possibility; for the purpose of this theory, we will dismiss this option and focus in on the obliteration theory. Even more vehemently, though, I ask, how could something like this have happened?

The latter-day Flood, as can be seen in Halo: CE, are completely vulnerable and controllable as long as they are contained and containment procedures are maintained. I theorize that the only way that the Flood in the past could have taken down the Precursors is through a lack of care on the Precursors' part, through old powers that future (2552-2553) Flood have lost due to the passage of time, loss of intelligence and of technology, or if the Flood somehow went unnoticed and a massive sneak attack occurred. The three first options are self-explanatory... it will be the fourth option that I will delve into here.

The Flood, an Experiment?:

The Precursor had the ability to accelerate evolution... what if they accelerated and manipulated the evolution of a parasitic species until they created not a weapon, but a municipal service?

Think about it- the Precursor were trans-sentient beings, deaths among them must be rare. Even so, death probably did occur, and that death would be a finality; everything that Precursor knew was gone, and over the span of its life it likely had revolutionary ideas that could help all of the Precursor, or at least memories or though processes that would be worth accessing. So, over time, Precursor genetic manipulators accelerated and enhanced the evolution of a biological species until they created a self-sustaining storage system that could reclaim the memories of the Precursor even after death. Infection forms roam about the streets of Precursor cities, seeking out the locations of any dead Precursors. When they took over a deceased's body, the information of that dead Precursor was transferred to the central Gravemind (keep that in mind: Grave - Mind. Mind of the grave) and all the other Precursors would be able to access it later. Since the corpses could be used to replenish the Gravemind with necessary flesh or be used to create more infection forms, it was a self-sustaining system. The Precursor need not ever go without the memories and knowledge of their deceased ever again, and no longer would the dead bodies need to be put anywhere but the self-sustaining Flood memory retrieval system.

The Gravemind was likely not sentient at first, more like the central, living archive of all this information. When he became sentient and realized that he was being used, he could have used the advanced knowledge and the infection forms he had at his disposal to assault and destroy the Precursor in a massive, damning surprise attack.

Consider it. If this is true, it means that the first Gravemind did not only possess an abundance of Precursor intelligence, it was created by the Precursor, made out of Precursors, and meant to absorb their intelligence. The Precursor in this situation would not only have made the beasts that killed them, they would have willingly done it, thinking in their arrogance and power that they were infallible. Not only would the Precursor have passed down their mantle to the Forerunner, they would be the very ones who began the cycle that caused the Forerunner and Humanity to be forced to take up that mantle.

[Edited on 08.31.2010 7:35 PM PDT]

  • 05.21.2009 5:02 PM PDT
Subject: The Precursor, The Flood, and the Acceleration of Evolution (V2)
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Facinating man.

  • 05.30.2009 8:50 AM PDT

Posted by: cB4d93
Posted by: Silent Eli
you are a good translator
Idiot can be a hard language to learn, but once you get it down, everything becomes so clear! The whole world will make sense to you.

I like the idea that the Flood are an experiment gone wrong, and your Precursor theory explains their origins greatly. I can imagine a survival horror game as a Precursor, fighting the first outbreak of the flood after it had acheived sentience.

  • 05.30.2009 9:47 AM PDT

"We sleep peaceably in our beds, because rough men stand ready to visit violence upon those that wish to do us harm."

"Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of all those who threaten them."

If anything was edited out and no longer makes sense, let me know and I'll edit it. Thanks for the help Snakie.
WARNING!- This theory is massive. If you don't like walls like you've never seen before, or knowledge like you've never begun to imagine, I suggest reader's discretion! In addition, if you are not planning on reading the theory in its entirety, please do not respond. It defeats the purpose of all of the information I took the time to write up here for your benefit.


Introduction to the Thread:

Welcome to Version 2 of "The Precursor, The Flood, and the Acceleration of Evolution"! This version has been augmented and altered in quite a few ways from the original, namely some additional information, grammatical, structural, and other minor edits, and a general flow adaption that should increase the ability to understand the content in this theory. The major addition, however (and the reason for the new thread), is the additional reserved posts. With the addition of the reserved posts, I'll be able to expand the theory as time goes on and more ideas are adopted. So, without further ado, let's jump in!


Introduction to the Theory:

How could trans-sentient beings be destroyed by anything but other trans-sentient beings? That is the question that theorists must ask themselves when trying to divine the truth about the Precursor, the mysterious species that came before the Forerunner, possibly even helping to "create" the Milky Way's 100,000 year-old juggernaut that held the galaxy in their tight grip until the arrival of the Flood.


The Precursor:

The information that we have on the Precursor is sparse; mainly only some information from the Beastiarium bonus content from the special editions of Halo 3 and some rumored hints within the game itself. All that is known about them is as follows:

Tier 0: Trans-sentient: As the [Forerunners] had no examples of civilizations with technological accomplishment greater than themselves - with the exception of the Precursors - this is a theoretical ceiling. They can travel intergalactic and accelerate evolution of intelligent life. These may be creatures of legend.

Agreed, this presents a problem when dealing with opposing theories as for the most part because neither can be proven nor disproven.
The absolute most important question at this point is "where are they now"? If they aren't dead, then where are they? What could kill the most intelligent species in more than one galaxy, and if they aren't dead then why didn't they assist the Forerunner or Humanity in their struggle against the Flood?

Here is where we come to my actual theory: how could the Precursor, the most highly-advanced species known to this galaxy (and likely others), be stopped or destroyed by anything but a similarly advanced society? And what society could ever come upon the knowledge that they did or come upon the technology that they already had? The answer to this question, my friends, is The Flood.

The Flood:

The Flood have the ability to store the knowledge of anything they infect, and they also have the ability to act on the knowledge that they absorb from an organism, meaning that any technology that an infected organism is near can be operated by that infected organism, provided the original organism could operate it. In this manner, The Flood could have attained trans-sentience, and the technology that comes with that sort of intelligence, by simply killing and infecting one Precursor and discovering how it thinks and interprets information. And it is known from the Iris viral campaign for Halo 3 that the Flood are a trans-galactic organism, the only known species other than the Precursor to attain that kind of ability. The Flood, at one time, were at least partially trans-sentient... as long as we assume that being trans-galactic is a critical part of the trans-sentient designation.

I disagree with the Flood being considered trans-sentient. While they were most certainly a trans-galactic species, to me that is only a small part of the definition and actually the most easily attained. The Forerunner had outposts well outside the Milky Way and considering that and their mastery of many other areas I don?t think it would have been to horribly difficult for them to have traveled to another galaxy, they were already part of the way there and were able to jump from Earth to the Ark virtually instantly and while the distances between Earth and the Ark are much smaller than Ark to another galaxy, their long lifespans coupled with cryo-freezing should have allowed them to make the journey.
While being capable of moving between galaxies is certainly a part of the definition, I think that simply achieving that one step while significant does not mean that the flood was partially trans-sentient, as the seemingly more advanced feat of accelerating intelligent life is, to me, the more important of the two. Although both are obviously required to meet the Tier.

Here is the point where the facts take the full turn into the realm of theory. Let's assume that the Flood gained this momentary trans-sentience by warring with the Precursors and capturing at least a fragment of their knowledge and their technology. If they did this, if they had this war, how was it actually begun? The Flood as seen in Halo: CE don't appear to be something that would threaten a trans-sentient species, much less a fully-manned Forerunner outpost... hell, even the Flood in Halo 3 don't seem to have the stuff to take on the Forerunner in a controlled environment. So this begs the question, in what kind of situation could the Flood actually combat and win against the Precursors?
I agree the Flood certainly don?t look capable of taking on a trans-galactic empire and winning. Which to me indicates that they lost. In any kind of long drawn out war I see no way that the Precursors, a species capable of accelerating evolution and presumably altering it (I am assuming the latter, but if they can speed it up I don?t think it?s out of the realm of possibility that they could alter its course as well), would ever lose a war against another species that was unable to do so; in a war against the flood, would the Precursors not simply find a species that preyed upon the flood accelerate their evolution to the perfect anti-flood weapon and then mass breed them? I would find it virtually impossible to believe that not one species in the Universe was capable of eating, and/or being resistant to flood infection. Partially because we already have an example of someone who is resistant to Flood infection and partially due to the fact that every species has something that can kill it either something bigger, or something smaller.

The Flood v. The Precursor:

The primary question to ask is what could the Flood have done to surprise and defeat the Precursor? If we assume that the Flood actually attained their momentary trans-sentience from the Precursor, then the Flood had to have absorbed information from the Precursors or stolen technology from them and survived, showing that the Precursors either did not care about their losses, lost and retreated, or were completely obliterated. How could something like this have happened?

I do not see the Precursor, the race that is rumored to have given the Forerunner their very mantle to protect life, existing uncaring in the face of a xenoparasite that contains a fragment of their knowledge. I also find it relatively unlikely that they would have retreated, but it is a possibility; for the purpose of this theory, we will dismiss this option and focus in on the obliteration theory. But still, how could something like this have happened?

The latter-day Flood, as can be seen in Halo: CE, are completely vulnerable and controllable as long as they are contained and containment procedures are maintained. I theorize that the only way that the Flood in the past could have taken down the Precursors is through a lack of care on the Precursors' part, through old powers that future (2552-2553) Flood have lost due to the passage of time, loss of intelligence, and loss of technology, or if the Flood were integrated into the Precursor system and suddenly betrayed them. The two first options are self-explanatory... it will be the third option that I will delve into here.

Agreed the Mantle would require the Precursors to destroy or at alter the Flood to be more docile. However the Gravemind and Flood as a whole don?t appear to lose information. He, as you pointed out yourself, appears to have knowledge from both the Forerunner-Flood war and earlier.
While that's true, we don't know if a Gravemind survived that event. We know that there was one at Installation 05 that was there at least since 2552, and if he dates back to that time period he would still contain all of that information (and he does claim several times to hail from before the rings were lit). We can't just say "the Flood lost the information when the rings were lit", because it's possible that more than one Gravemind can exist at once, and one of the backups (the Installation 05 Gravemind) lived and retained all of the information they took. Or the Installation 05 Gravemind could be the original.
I find it unlikely that he is the original Gravemind, because Offensive Bias destroyed the entire Flood fleet and would have destroyed the Compound Mind with it. So it would seem that Flood intelligence would continue to exist despite the near destruction of the species, considering that I would find it strange that they lost knowledge of Precursor technology for no known reason and ended up stranded on a remote planet in the Milky Way.


[Edited on 05.30.2009 12:21 PM PDT]

  • 05.30.2009 10:11 AM PDT

"We sleep peaceably in our beds, because rough men stand ready to visit violence upon those that wish to do us harm."

"Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of all those who threaten them."

The Flood, an Experiment?:

The Precursor had the ability to accelerate evolution... what if they accelerated and manipulated the evolution of a parasitic species until they created not a weapon, but a municipal service?

Think about it- the Precursors were trans-sentient beings, deaths among them must be rare. Even so, death probably did occur, and that death would be a finality; everything that Precursor knew was gone, and over the span of its life it likely had revolutionary ideas that could help all of the Precursors, or at least memories or though processes that would be worth accessing. So, over time, Precursor genetic manipulators accelerated and enhanced the evolution of a biological species until they created a self-sustaining storage system that could reclaim the memories of the Precursor even after death. Infection forms roam about the streets of Precursor cities, seeking out the locations of any dead Precursors. When they took over a deceased's body, the information of that dead Precursor was transferred to the central Gravemind (keep that in mind: Grave - Mind. Mind of the grave) and all the other Precursors would be able to access it later. Since the corpses could be used to replenish the Gravemind with necessary flesh or be used to create more infection forms, it was a self-sustaining system. The Precursors would need not ever go without the memories and knowledge of their deceased ever again, and no longer would the dead bodies need to be put anywhere but the self-sustaining Flood memory retrieval system.

The Gravemind was likely not sentient at first, more like the central, living archive of all this information. When he became cognitive and sentient and realized that he was being used, he could have used the accumulated knowledge and forms that he had at his disposal to attack and destroy the Precursor in a massive, destructive surprise attack.

Think about this. If this is true, it means that the first Gravemind did not only possess an abundance of Precursor intelligence, it was created by the Precursor, made out of Precursors, and meant to absorb their intelligence. The Precursor in this situation would not only have made the beasts that killed them, they would have willingly done it, thinking in their arrogance and power that they were infallible. Not only would the Precursor have passed down their mantle to the Forerunner, they would be the very ones who began the cycle that caused the Forerunner and Humanity to be forced to take up that mantle.[/quote]
I really can?t argue with this, with what little can be pieced together about them it doesn?t really contradict anything and their desire to preserve life follows the Mantle. The only reason I?d disagree would be that I think they would have learned to accept death and wouldn?t accept life as a Flood form. I also disagree with your interpretation that each one appears to be incredibly smart yet doesn?t tell others of their ideas? Despite the advancement of their species as a whole I don?t think each one is necessarily amazing and b-blam!- with ideas that will change the world.
Further if the Gravemind was successful in his attack, what happened to all that technology he would have inherited? Why would he just abandon the massive empire he just took control of and throw it all away for a backwater planet at the edge of the Milky Way?



urther Explanations and Side-Theories:

The theory itself has been stated, but there is still much to be considered. In this section we will delve further into what this theory tells us, and what it could mean. Many side-theories and actual in-depth explanations of facets of this theory are to follow. Please, continue reading! Many of these side-theories and explanations are critical to the theory itself, and expand upon it in ways I did not consider possible.


Further Explanations and Considerations:

On Trans-Sentience v. Omnipotence:

It is very important, indeed critical to this theory, to understand that Trans-Sentience is not Omnipotence. Just because a species exists beyond what we can comprehend does not mean that they are God-like or have abilities similar to any divine entity. They very well likely could be killed, or infected, or subjected to almost any physical ailment that we have... if they still have bodies. It is important to be aware that the Precursor were not Gods, they likely simply had a much vaster intellect and a much more efficient way to process it.


On the Gravemind Attaining Sentience:

As far as this theory is concerned, the Gravemind started as the central hub for a memory retrieval system, nothing more. My best correlative example for what he existed as would be a library computer. Most library computers have the hardware to run higher functions, but programming and manual restrictions upon them usually allow for only a catalog system to be run. Although the capacity for higher function exists, it is inhibited.

Similarly, the Gravemind had the ability to attain sentience because it was organic and, indeed, alive. "Programming" restrictions in the very genetics of the Flood, however, stopped him from being able to attain sentience on his own. The Precursor that were being absorbed, though, already had their sentience and their thought processes. The Gravemind, as he absorbed these creatures that could think and had an established thought process, gradually copied that thought process. The very absorption of Precursor was what allowed the Gravemind to break his shackles and become sentient, able to strike out at the unsuspecting Precursor.

That would be a major feat of engineering, but not one I would doubt the Precursor?s capable of achieving.
Living AIs?:

Think further on the above. The Forerunner were the only species that could create fully sentient non-living AIs. It is generally accepted that AIs went rampant not only due to nearing the end of their lives, but due to their extreme desire to actually "live". Could it be that the Precursor wanted, or were indeed close to, a way to make an AI that was immune to rampancy? Was the Gravemind not only a catalog, but a secret experiment to see if the Precursor could create a living AI? And, if so, did it work? Even now, is it possible that the Gravemind fulfilled the Precursor's dreams and attained an AI-like state while living? Is the Gravemind a living AI? Only time and more information will tell.

Is he really artificial though? He?s certainly biological and is regenerating himself, I would assume his form of breeding is a-blam!- in nature, so he would probably produce offspring which would have been biological and natural since their birth, which wouldn?t really make them artificial.
On Pure Forms:

Another important thing to consider is the question of Pure Forms. These forms are created when the calcium level of a flood colony reaches a certain level and they are able to "create" their own particular "pure" Flood forms to do difficult tasks for the colony. This has never before been questioned; what is now being questioned is where these Pure Forms came from.

While on the subject of Gravemind, let us return to the implications of this theory. The Gravemind was a catalog, and the Precursor were a species hell-bent on preserving life, just like the Forerunner. The Forerunner cataloged races, what's to say the Precursor didn't? What if they cataloged these races inside the Gravemind construct, and he is re-creating long-dead races whose blueprints he has stored permanently in memory to serve the collective that exterminated them? It raises questions on just how "personal" infection is. If a single entity is infected, could multiples of that entity's species be created by the Flood all over the universe to serve them?

I would agree that the Pure forms are probably extinct species that the Flood was aware of, but within your theory to me a better argument could be made that each form had an initial civil service point. For instance the tanks would have been cops, range were corrupted, and the stalker would have searched out dead Precursors for infection forms and/or been used for travel. Imagine little Precursors riding on a stalker form!



Side-Theories:

The Precursor are The Flood:

Several people have the idea that the Precursor evolved themselves until they became The Flood, the epitome of evolution. While I personally don't hold to this theory, it's still very plausible and very interesting. If considered, the Flood are fairly advanced, at least inwardly. A collective mind, no inner-species war, no theft. War outside, yes, but that's out of necessity. An intriguing side-theory, to say the least.

The Flood have a separate entry in the beastarium?a lower one at that?why would they have two separate entries for the same species?

In Closing:

First, I'd like to say thank you all for reading. My theories are nothing without those who read them, the users of this site. I appreciate your patience as I ramble on about something that isn't too likely to be proven.

While this is not the likeliest theory that I have ever created, I still believe it to be possible, and it is most definitely my favorite. Because of the lack of information on those times, all that I have to go off of has been brought into play to try to hash out a plausible outcome; if I've missed something, please let me know!

Once again thank you, and I wish you well on your travels of this site and the information it has to offer!

You weren't exaggerating, you do make some great theories. Possibly the best I?ve ever seen.

  • 05.30.2009 12:22 PM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: Precursors
I find it unlikely that he is the original Gravemind, because Offensive Bias destroyed the entire Flood fleet and would have destroyed the Compound Mind with it.

Ahh, but did he? No, Offensive spared one ship: the ship carrying Mendicant, the ship most likely to also have the Gravemind on it. What if Installation 05 was closest to the particular area where the battle took place and the Hive Mind was taken there to be kept from causing further trouble? I find it likely.

  • 05.30.2009 5:09 PM PDT

"We sleep peaceably in our beds, because rough men stand ready to visit violence upon those that wish to do us harm."

"Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of all those who threaten them."

Posted by: Lord Snakie
Posted by: Precursors
I find it unlikely that he is the original Gravemind, because Offensive Bias destroyed the entire Flood fleet and would have destroyed the Compound Mind with it.

Ahh, but did he? No, Offensive spared one ship: the ship carrying Mendicant, the ship most likely to also have the Gravemind on it. What if Installation 05 was closest to the particular area where the battle took place and the Hive Mind was taken there to be kept from causing further trouble? I find it likely.

Did he spare the ship or just Medicant? I thought he just spared Medicant, but I don't really remember.
And the Ark was probably the closest installation considering that's where Medicant was taken and that's where Medicant was initially trying to get to. Unfortunately we don't know where the Maginot Line is.

  • 05.30.2009 6:27 PM PDT

tl:dr


Yea, I JUST said that.

  • 05.30.2009 6:30 PM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: Precursors
Did he spare the ship or just Medicant? I thought he just spared Medicant, but I don't really remember.

The ship was just crippled; I find it unlikely that Offensive spared the ship completely, but I do find it likely that he searched the entire thing before he destroyed it.

And the Ark was probably the closest installation considering that's where Medicant was taken and that's where Medicant was initially trying to get to. Unfortunately we don't know where the Maginot Line is.
It's possible that Offensive would have wanted to split Mendicant and the Gravemind up, stopping them from working together anew. Mendicant would go to the furthest-away and most self-sufficient facility so he could cause no more trouble, and the Gravemind would to go Installation 05, the next-closest facility.

  • 05.30.2009 6:31 PM PDT

Requested for this to be moved?

  • 05.30.2009 6:33 PM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: burritosenior
Requested for this to be moved?

No, I was just asking Skib if I could post it in both forums and keep them both active or if I would have to kill the one from the Halo 3 Forum to post a new one here, and he just offered to move it for me. I accepted, 'cause it seemed like a good idea.

  • 05.30.2009 6:35 PM PDT

Excellent.
Oh, there's no lock next to it either. Moved threads used to have the locked symbol, didn't they?
So yay this.

  • 05.30.2009 6:35 PM PDT

"We sleep peaceably in our beds, because rough men stand ready to visit violence upon those that wish to do us harm."

"Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of all those who threaten them."

Posted by: Lord Snakie
Posted by: Precursors
Did he spare the ship or just Medicant? I thought he just spared Medicant, but I don't really remember.[/quote]
The ship was just crippled; I find it unlikely that Offensive spared the ship completely, but I do find it likely that he searched the entire thing before he destroyed it.

The latter we do know (at least for Medicant's ship are we sure Medicant and Gravemind were on the same one?) I would imagine Offensive would destroy the enemy fleet completely for no other purpose than to eliminate space junk.

And the Ark was probably the closest installation considering that's where Medicant was taken and that's where Medicant was initially trying to get to. Unfortunately we don't know where the Maginot Line is.
It's possible that Offensive would have wanted to split Mendicant and the Gravemind up, stopping them from working together anew. Mendicant would go to the furthest-away and most self-sufficient facility so he could cause no more trouble, and the Gravemind would to go Installation 05, the next-closest facility.

I'd reverse those. Medicant is split up onto the Keyship and the Ark (the closest installation so Offensive can study him easily) and Gravemind is sent to the furthest installation (so he can't ever interfere).

But why would the ring effect the Flood bio ships, but not Gravemind? We know it neutralized them (presumably by killing the people manning them) so why didn't it kill the Gravemind? He was in the blast range.

  • 05.30.2009 6:36 PM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: Precursors
But why would the ring effect the Flood bio ships, but not Gravemind? We know it neutralized them (presumably by killing the people manning them) so why didn't it kill the Gravemind? He was in the blast range.

True. You bring up a very good point... a point I don't have an answer to.

  • 05.30.2009 7:35 PM PDT

"We sleep peaceably in our beds, because rough men stand ready to visit violence upon those that wish to do us harm."

"Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of all those who threaten them."

Any other holes in my analysis of your theory?

[Edited on 05.30.2009 7:49 PM PDT]

  • 05.30.2009 7:49 PM PDT
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Posted by: Precursors
But why would the ring effect the Flood bio ships, but not Gravemind? We know it neutralized them (presumably by killing the people manning them) so why didn't it kill the Gravemind? He was in the blast range.


The Gravemind was destroyed by the activation of the Halo Array. The Halo 3 manual says so.

  • 05.30.2009 7:57 PM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: opogjijijp
The Gravemind was destroyed by the activation of the Halo Array. The Halo 3 manual says so.

Well there's that answer for me. I'll go ahead and remove that when I get the chance.

  • 05.30.2009 8:06 PM PDT

"We sleep peaceably in our beds, because rough men stand ready to visit violence upon those that wish to do us harm."

"Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of all those who threaten them."

Posted by: opogjijijp
Posted by: Precursors
But why would the ring effect the Flood bio ships, but not Gravemind? We know it neutralized them (presumably by killing the people manning them) so why didn't it kill the Gravemind? He was in the blast range.


The Gravemind was destroyed by the activation of the Halo Array. The Halo 3 manual says so.


Well that clears that up. So Flood intelligence is definitely capable of surviving past the destruction of the Gravemind. Thus I would find it virtually impossible to believe that the species that inherited all Precursor technology would abandon all of it. I think it's far more likely the Flood lost the war.

My personal theory on their evolution is as follows.
Early Development
I personally don't think they initially developed in the Milky Way, I imagine they evolved in another galaxy initially (which for future purposes I'm simply going to call Andromeda as it's close by and relatively well known). There they evolved in relative peace and securitytwo things I think are necessary to get to Tier 1 as the Forerunner likely would have reached it had they not been destroyed by the Forerunner-Flood warand eventually reached Tier 0 development. On their way towards this development they encounter other lesser species that help them develop the idea of the Mantle. These other species might end up being destroyed due to Precursor experimentation in their attempt to learn how to accelerate intelligent life. Those experiments would result in the development of the mantle and the idea that the dominant species should protect all others from interference of hostile threats.
Tier 0
Having become the most advanced species the Universe, and capable of trans-galactic flight they would have spread out into nearby orbiting dwarf galaxies. Here they begin encountering other species and begin to apply the Mantle. They would likely accelerate the development of other species in the galaxy and begin to mold them and teach them of the Mantle. Their goal at this point is to advance other species so that they can protect themselves. The Precursors, while having a large military, cannot maintain such a large empire indefinitely. So in order to prolong their own existence they attempt to train the most advanced local species to become like their proxy. Because they are relatively close to the galaxy they could easily arrive and render assistance against any kind of hostile species or abuse of power by the most dominant species. At this point in their history the Precursors are still becoming more advanced and have not yet hit their apex.
Further expansion and first incursions into the Milky Way
Having created a number of other species in orbiting dwarf galaxies the Precursors decide to move onto a new larger galaxy. Entering the Milky Way they find the Forerunner, who while advanced are still nowhere near their level of technology. They follow their basic protocol and introduce themselves aid the Forerunner, establish outposts in the Milky Way, and begin instructing the Forerunner on the Mantle. At this point the Precursor Empire is reaching its height. They have expeditions to dozens of different galaxies and are instructing and advancing hundreds of species. They eventually pass on the Mantle to the Forerunner and all but completely abandon the Milky Way (perhaps one strange outpost remains)
However like all empires they eventually overextend themselves at which point they encounter the Flood in a new galaxy. First contact for the Precursors is like that of the Forerunner the research team goes missing and the military is sent in to investigate (which for the purposes of my theory I'm going to use Canis Major Dwarf Galaxy)
Precursor Flood war
With the infection of the first research and military teams the Flood would gain the knowledge of the Precursors. With the disappearance of the military investigation/SAR team the Precursors send a task force to investigate the area. Having dealt with numerous indigenous species that were hostile to the Precursors they would have had to kept large fleets and would probably have contingency plans at the ready but considering how thin their resources would have been they send a task force rather than a full fleet. When one of these entered the Flood galaxy and found the Flood they would have attempted to study them possibly for uses like the one you proposed. However the Flood overwhelms this task force and infect it, but unlike the previous infections this one is not as quick and the task force is able to report their findings and call for a full scale invasion.
Considering the nature of the threat (an enemy that know has access to all of their knowledge) the Precursors send every available force as soon as possible to the galaxy. In their own new position as protectors of the Universe they do not bother to inform other lower species of the threat. When their forces arrive on station they engage the Flood forces and annihilates almost all of them. The lone survivor is a single damaged ship that limps towards the Milky Way. Given the absolute destruction that Precursor weapons must be capable of I would doubt they would be able to notice a single ship missing and like the Forerunner the Precursors would be arrogant and assume they had successfully dealt with the Flood.
With the successful defeat of the Flood the Precursors would not bother to inform other species as to their success and would return to their colonization and advancement efforts and would evacuate the Milky Way entirely leaving it up to the Forerunner to deal with that local area. The lone Flood survivor ship crashes onto G 617 g where they are trapped. Despite maintaining the vast knowledge of the Precursors the Flood are not able to replicate their technology because they are to weak and are unable to obtain sufficient materials. Their inability to replicate the high grade materials used in Precursor ship construction would constrain them to the Milky Way where they would begin their deadly duel with the Forerunner.

[Edited on 05.30.2009 8:38 PM PDT]

  • 05.30.2009 8:06 PM PDT

The Human race is the parasite of the Earth. The galaxy is the host of the Earth. The universe is the parasite of something much grander...

Pure geniues, you should up there along side charles Darwin!

  • 05.30.2009 9:34 PM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: Precursors
I find it unlikely, simply because I don't think the Precursor would ever resort to something like that. The Mantle isn't something that suggest that life, once existing, can be altered in any way. Nor does it prohibit it, but one would expect that the people that created such a doctrine wouldn't evolve an entire race (possibly against some of that race's will) just so they could defend themselves.

  • 06.01.2009 6:46 PM PDT

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"Sometimes life gives you lemons, and then you have to say 'f**k the lemons' and bail."

If you're reading this, you need to stop stalking me. If you can't stop stalking me, you might as well go here.

While I find it a it difficult to write a long theory on a story aspect that there's barely even a page about in all of Halo lore: I guess I'll give it a try.

Honestly, I think the answers are staring us right in the face. The Precursors were said to be able to accelerate evolution. The Gravemind, on the other hand, claimed the Flood to be the next step in evolution.

This is where'd I'd have to agree with Snakie's bit about the Precursors creating the Flood. Whether they were meant as a tool, weapon, or a damn grammar school science fair project isn't very relevant. (Given their seemingly overwhelming desire to preserve biological diversity, I'm going to lean toward the Flood being some failed experiment as a means to preserve life.) Either way, if we can momentarily assume this to be the case, the only thing that matters is that the Precursor's creation, the Flood, became out of control. Remember, all it takes is one infection form to obliterate an entire species. In this case, seeing as their original intentions for the Flood were possibly good in nature, the first victims of the Flood were probably more than willing. (They were initially ignorant to the repercussions.) Given what we know about the Flood's nature, they wouldn't have needed any additional powers from what we've already seen; all it needs to do is drop a few Precursors and boom, they're in business so to speak.

To be that guy, I'm also going to steal a bit from...well...Precursors' theory. I think that after the Precursors had realized the gravity of their mistakes, and the potential for destruction that their failed experiment had, they traveled the Universe in search of other intelligent life-forms to pass their mantle to.

While we know that the Precursors we capable of intergalactic travel, we can't really be sure of what that means. Think about it, the Universe is large beyond comprehension, and s expanding as we speak. Every second, galaxies drift further and further apart. While yes, they could travel across galaxies, we don't know if they had mastered it. Even so, what can be considered mastery of intergalactic travel? For all we know, slow as hell is as good as it gets in terms of traveling in-between galaxies.

And to my next point: for all the Forerunner's knew, they weren't the only race to have been passed The Mantle. Remember, the Forerunner Empire only consisted of the Milky Way Galaxy. Like the bestarium said, the Precursors, and apparently the Flood possibly via absorption of Precursor knowledge/technology, were the only beings capable of intergalactic travel.

The Forerunners could have actually been a tiny piece in what was the Precursors plan to preserve life.

Expanding on that, how do they know that the Precursors aren't still out there? Maybe the Forerunner were just one of the first unfortunate victims of the Flood.

For a species that can navigate a continuously expanding entity such as our universe, maybe time was not of the essence? They knew they could outrun the Flood, but in their infinite wisdom, they realized that the other civilizations of their Galactic neighborhood could not. So they spread the wealth, pass down the Mantle; because like it or not, their neighbors were doomed to fight the Flood.

Then again, I have a strong feeling that after the upcoming Forerunner Trilogy, the Precursors are more than likely going to take the place of the Forerunners as the mysterious god-like society.

[Edited on 06.01.2009 8:23 PM PDT]

  • 06.01.2009 7:10 PM PDT

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I'm at a loss of word's. How? I wouldn't even know where to begin writing a theory.

  • 06.01.2009 7:34 PM PDT

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"Sometimes life gives you lemons, and then you have to say 'f**k the lemons' and bail."

If you're reading this, you need to stop stalking me. If you can't stop stalking me, you might as well go here.

Oh, and to add to my last post, I despite being trans-sentient, I don't think the Precursors had a means to fight the Flood. (This isn't really based on anything aside from the fact that they were either obliterated or ran away.)

Hell, you cant barely even say the Forerunners had an effective way to fight the Flood; species-wide suicide, in my opinion, says, "We didn't know what to do."

  • 06.01.2009 8:28 PM PDT

"We sleep peaceably in our beds, because rough men stand ready to visit violence upon those that wish to do us harm."

"Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of all those who threaten them."

Posted by: fastrigger117
I'm at a loss of word's. How? I wouldn't even know where to begin writing a theory.


Well I generally take what I know of Haloverse, know of the specific topic, and common influences from Sci Fi and other genres and extrapolate a theory.

  • 06.02.2009 11:41 AM PDT