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This topic has moved here: Subject: The Precursor, The Flood, and the Acceleration of Evolution (V2)
  • Subject: The Precursor, The Flood, and the Acceleration of Evolution (V2)
Subject: The Precursor, The Flood, and the Acceleration of Evolution (V2)

Posted by: Lord Snakie
Posted by: Monkeyman4000
Secondly, it has been put in material once...

How is that confirmation? It uses some very loose and speculatory terms. You state it as if it is fact.

If it's put in material once, it's confirmation. They used it. That's about all there is to it.


No. The material is clear in that it is merely thought that the Precursors (well, actually, tier 0, not the Precursors in particular even) may have had these various technologies.
It's all theoretical and speculatory. In their words, they are perhaps creatures of "myth".

I'm very happy to continue by myself. I have no motivation except to dispell ignorance.



  • 06.17.2009 9:14 PM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: Monkeyman4000
Posted by: Lord Snakie
If it's put in material once, it's confirmation. They used it. That's about all there is to it.

No. The material is clear in that it is merely thought that the Precursors (well, actually, tier 0, not the Precursors in particular even) may have had these various technologies.
It's all theoretical and speculatory. In their words, they are perhaps creatures of "myth".

While that may be true, the material also clearly was referring to the Precursor as a more technologically advanced species than the Forerunner. While they may be "creatures of myth", they were still being spoken of as more advanced in a technological sense, which means that their technological level must have been known or at least speculated upon (and that they must have a technological level in the first place). The only tier above the Forerunner was 0, and the only species above the Forerunner were the Precursor. It adds up.

My apologies for "speaking as though this is truth". It's common sense. If you want to work right down to the nitty-gritty, no, it's not proven. But, like a good theorist, that's always in the back of my mind. If you're going to be a theorist at all, you have to start assuming things as fact at one point or another. If you don't know that, then you've got things you need to learn.

I'm very happy to continue by myself. I have no motivation except to dispell ignorance.
I'm sure you don't. Well, do me a favor and stop debating things that can be taken as relative common sense. It's demeaning to yourself.

  • 06.17.2009 9:44 PM PDT

Posted by: Lord Snakie
Posted by: Monkeyman4000
Posted by: Lord Snakie
If it's put in material once, it's confirmation. They used it. That's about all there is to it.

No. The material is clear in that it is merely thought that the Precursors (well, actually, tier 0, not the Precursors in particular even) may have had these various technologies.
It's all theoretical and speculatory. In their words, they are perhaps creatures of "myth".

While that may be true, the material also clearly was referring to the Precursor as a more technologically advanced species than the Forerunner. While they may be "creatures of myth", they were still being spoken of as more advanced in a technological sense, which means that their technological level must have been known or at least speculated upon (and that they must have a technological level in the first place). The only tier above the Forerunner was 0, and the only species above the Forerunner were the Precursor. It adds up.

My apologies for "speaking as though this is truth". It's common sense. If you want to work right down to the nitty-gritty, no, it's not proven. But, like a good theorist, that's always in the back of my mind. If you're going to be a theorist at all, you have to start assuming things as fact at one point or another. If you don't know that, then you've got things you need to learn.

I'm very happy to continue by myself. I have no motivation except to dispell ignorance.
I'm sure you don't. Well, do me a favor and stop debating things that can be taken as relative common sense. It's demeaning to yourself.


Haha, nice try. Why would you repeatedly ask another person to stop debating? And also continue to answer their posts? This reflects some discomfort.
Whatever, address the question and not the debate please.

Simply because it is speculated that the Precursors were technologically superior, and that the tier above the Foreunner was the final tier (the "theoretical ceiling" in fact), this does not mean we attribute the qualities speculated to be held by tier 0 civilizations to the Precursors by defult. Furthermore, tiers are only general measurements, not yardsticks by which to comprehensively judge. This isn't common sense, obviously this is over-eager assumption.


  • 06.17.2009 10:34 PM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: Monkeyman4000
Haha, nice try. Why would you repeatedly ask another person to stop debating?

Because you are not debating, you are arguing semantics. Nobody has any place to be arguing semantics. I have said several times before that this theory is heavily based on assumption, yet you continue to attempt to take information that is as close to canon as it can possibly be and debate it. That is not only arguing semantics, but it is dangerously close to trolling and derailing a thread.

I ask you to stop one final time. After this, I am not going to reply to you at all.

  • 06.18.2009 7:18 AM PDT

Jim Travis

Right on. You are arguing just stop.This guy made this awsome topic, give the guy some credit. Nethier you or me would never be able to put all of those facts together. Lord Snakie I want to see more forums.

[Edited on 06.18.2009 8:10 AM PDT]

  • 06.18.2009 8:05 AM PDT
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Your matter about the Gravemind. Are you trying to imply that the first ever Gravemind (in the time of the Precursors) was constructional designed by the Precursors using scientific lab experiments? Is that why the Gravemind (Halo 3 wise) has such knowledge and intelligence, as it's been passed down originally from the experiment of the Precursors, and then to the Forerunners? If so, I think that is one of the best theories I've ever seen to the creation of the Flood.

Back to the main topic at hand (your whole description of the total amount of your theory), I personally think this is one of the best thought-out theories I've ever seen in my life, and I personally congratulate you on the knowledge, and information you've gather all into this.

I wish I read the original version of this total theory, but I should be glad I even got to read this one in it's entirety.

  • 06.18.2009 11:56 PM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: Reptilian Rob
While this user didn't exactly go the mature route about it, he is right to a degree Snakie.

Arguing semantics isn't equivalent to debating an actual topic or discussing the theory. Using philosophical "nothing is ever completely true" statements and the like do nothing to further this theory or discuss it, it's merely heavy-handed philosophy in a thread made for something completely different.

If he wants to actually discuss the topic at hand instead of arguing that such-and-such isn't canon when this entire theory is based on assumption, I would be more than happy to hear it. Otherwise- and the moderators I've spoken with agree- what he was saying is skirting the borders of trolling.

  • 06.19.2009 1:44 AM PDT

I think we are getting a bit worked up. And over what? I don't see where you find offense.
Semantics? You mean to say that I am only debating insignificant details?

I am debating the topic. Although I haven't addressed any of your later points, I have refuted your interpretation of the quote you have used to support your whole argument. I have merely cut throught the crap and attacked the base of the argument because I believe the entire argument is undermined by this poor foundation.

I have made it clear what I think is wrong with your interpretation, in that I believe you assume too much.I prefer to be blunt and critical. I apologize if I caused offense.

  • 06.19.2009 9:01 PM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: Monkeyman4000
Although I haven't addressed any of your later points, I have refuted your interpretation of the quote you have used to support your whole argument. I have merely cut throught the crap and attacked the base of the argument because I believe the entire argument is undermined by this poor foundation.

I have made it clear what I think is wrong with your interpretation, in that I believe you assume too much.I prefer to be blunt and critical. I apologize if I caused offense.

Apology accepted. In the future, however, I would suggest being more logical and less blunt. You can be perfectly concise and critical while still being polite.

As for your opinion of the theory, it's just that: opinion. Because this theory is based mainly on assumption and covers a period in time so far in the past, not much can be done to disprove it, which is also why not much can be used as support. While you've stated a scientific point that seems to prove that "accelerating evolution" is impossible, it was put into their work. It could just as easily be a term loosely used so everyone understood it as it could have been used as an "actual" term.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and your point has been made. Nevertheless, it doesn't destroy the basis of this theory, as there are multiple explanations (from a loose terminology on the UNSC's part to a tired Bungie employee putting this together) as to why those words were used.

In short, I appreciate your point but don't believe it has bearing on the base of the theory.

  • 06.19.2009 9:11 PM PDT
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lol bnet

MIND = BLOWN

  • 06.22.2009 8:35 PM PDT

Posted by: Lord Snakie
Posted by: LongMasterWolf
In my opinion accelerating evolution would be both what snakie is talking about but also the increase in technology similar to what the Covenant used the Forerunner technology to increase their own stance on the technology tier.

You're suggesting that the acceleration of evolution would somehow also correlate to an acceleration in technological advancement?

If so, then I can see where you're coming from, but with the Flood I doubt it. As a race's capabilities increase, their capabilities to produce machines and technology increases... normally. But the Flood are anything but normal; they are a parasite, they require a host's knowledge to have anything past basic necessities and their undying hunger. While their advancement might have brought on more desirable traits for what the Precursor wanted, it gave the Flood their three key weaknesses: it dumbed down individual Flood intelligence (which also gave them another primary weakness: the reliance on a Gravemind or Proto-Gravemind for higher function, such as piloting starships and using advanced tactics), and it made the Flood reliant upon hosts for individual intelligence or calcium to produce a hive mind to give them collective intelligence.

While those may seem relatively small, those are the three weaknesses that allowed the Forerunner to win the war. The Flood's reliance on biomass to gain notable intelligence is what allowed the Halo array to function as it did, wiping out the Flood's ability to create higher intelligences and damning even their ability to gain singular intelligences by infecting hosts with infection forms.


I completely agree with your example because unlike other species the Flood did not just occur, instead they were created. Having their evolution accelerated by the Precursor meant that they took a completely different path of evolution, completely bypassing the technology tier.

Also another solution to the Flood not having their evolution correlate with the increase in Technology could be because at their very core the Flood are parasites. They feed off of the Precursors' memories and technology instead of creating their own.

  • 06.23.2009 1:47 PM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: LongMasterWolf
Also another solution to the Flood not having their evolution correlate with the increase in Technology could be because at their very core the Flood are parasites. They feed off of the Precursors' memories and technology instead of creating their own.

Exactly. The Flood are not innovative like the Forerunner or Humanity, nor are they even imitative like the Covenant. They don't produce any technology at all: they just use what the other races produce. This is actually another core weakness: the Flood don't have any technology. They completely rely on the technology of other races to work for them.

  • 06.23.2009 1:52 PM PDT

Posted by: Lord Snakie
Posted by: LongMasterWolf
Also another solution to the Flood not having their evolution correlate with the increase in Technology could be because at their very core the Flood are parasites. They feed off of the Precursors' memories and technology instead of creating their own.

Exactly. The Flood are not innovative like the Forerunner or Humanity, nor are they even imitative like the Covenant. They don't produce any technology at all: they just use what the other races produce. This is actually another core weakness: the Flood don't have any technology. They completely rely on the technology of other races to work for them.


I completely agree so doesn't that solidify the Flood as a lesser being? Thus, not being above the Forerunner in the evolutionary food chain. If this is true shouldn't Mendicant Bias have simply ignored the Flood instead of switching sides?

  • 06.23.2009 8:16 PM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: LongMasterWolf
I completely agree so doesn't that solidify the Flood as a lesser being? Thus, not being above the Forerunner in the evolutionary food chain. If this is true shouldn't Mendicant Bias have simply ignored the Flood instead of switching sides?

From a technological standpoint, yes. But from a social standpoint the Flood could be called perfection, and when they attain a higher intelligence they have enough abilities to be called higher beings. Just because they lack technology of their own doesn't mean they're necessarily lesser... it could just mean that they don't think they need it. And the war against the Forerunner almost proved that thinking right.

  • 06.23.2009 8:21 PM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

- My apologies, a Bungie.net error message appeared and I believed the first post did not go through, please ignore. -

[Edited on 06.23.2009 8:28 PM PDT]

  • 06.23.2009 8:23 PM PDT

If Halo fans had a religion, it would be based off these theories.

  • 06.23.2009 8:30 PM PDT


Posted by: Lord Snakie
From a technological standpoint, yes. But from a social standpoint the Flood could be called perfection, and when they attain a higher intelligence they have enough abilities to be called higher beings. Just because they lack technology of their own doesn't mean they're necessarily lesser... it could just mean that they don't think they need it. And the war against the Forerunner almost proved that thinking right.


Key word: Almost. The Flood were wiped by Forerunner technology. It might not have been exactly the best victory in terms of cost of life, but in the end the Flood lost. Personally I would say that society and technology cannot be separated. They are integral in one another, so to say even though they were defeated they as a whole were a better society seems a little far fetched. Although this does start to sound like Social Darwinism.

  • 06.23.2009 8:33 PM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: Dark Ismo
If Halo fans had a religion, it would be based off these theories.

So I'm a priest of Halo?


Posted by: LongMasterWolf
Key word: Almost. The Flood were wiped by Forerunner technology. It might not have been exactly the best victory in terms of cost of life, but in the end the Flood lost. Personally I would say that society and technology cannot be separated. They are integral in one another, so to say even though they were defeated they as a whole were a better society seems a little far fetched. Although this does start to sound like Social Darwinism.

Aaah, but you must remember that The Flood were artificially developed. They didn't grow like normal society does. They just sprouted up with all the tools the Precursor thought they need, their society didn't progress to need technology.

  • 06.23.2009 8:37 PM PDT

Posted by: Lord Snakie
Aaah, but you must remember that The Flood were artificially developed. They didn't grow like normal society does. They just sprouted up with all the tools the Precursor thought they need, their society didn't progress to need technology.


But its the basis for their existence. Much like the right to Life is the basis for our society. Without it we would not exist.

  • 06.23.2009 8:44 PM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: LongMasterWolf
But its the basis for their existence. Much like the right to Life is the basis for our society. Without it we would not exist.

No, the basis for their existence is their undying hunger... or at least it is at this point. In the past I hope it was to serve as an archiving system for the Precursor, but all that drives them by the time they reach the Milky Way is that undying, unstoppable hunger.

  • 06.23.2009 9:01 PM PDT

Posted by: Lord Snakie
Posted by: LongMasterWolf
But its the basis for their existence. Much like the right to Life is the basis for our society. Without it we would not exist.

No, the basis for their existence is their undying hunger... or at least it is at this point. In the past I hope it was to serve as an archiving system for the Precursor, but all that drives them by the time they reach the Milky Way is that undying, unstoppable hunger.


What I'm saying is that according to your theory the only reason the Flood are even a kind of being is because of Precursor technology. They are founded on technology.

  • 06.23.2009 9:14 PM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: LongMasterWolf
What I'm saying is that according to your theory the only reason the Flood are even a kind of being is because of Precursor technology. They are founded on technology.

They are created with technology. I question if the Flood spores that the Precursor produced with that technology were aware of anything around them or of the modifications being done unto them at all. I personally think they were completely unaware until the first Gravemind was simply "turned on" by the Precursor.

  • 06.23.2009 9:22 PM PDT

Posted by: Lord Snakie
They are created with technology. I question if the Flood spores that the Precursor produced with that technology were aware of anything around them or of the modifications being done unto them at all. I personally think they were completely unaware until the first Gravemind was simply "turned on" by the Precursor.

I agree to that as well, but clearly they are not the next evolutionary step if they do not possess technology, for that is what created them and what in the end defeats them.

  • 06.23.2009 9:27 PM PDT