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This topic has moved here: Subject: Halo: Reach's ranking system; how would you like it to function?
  • Subject: Halo: Reach's ranking system; how would you like it to function?
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Exp like COD, based on individual performance, bonuses for teamwork though. No Prestiges though, just something based off exp. I don't mind Truskill in Halo 3 but it's just not my taste.

  • 06.03.2009 1:05 PM PDT
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They need to do it kind of like COD4 system only without the prestiege and mix it with the true skill system, only without the picture rank. They need to make it where people can't get mixed with different ranks. For example: A 25, 26, 25, and a 4 try to go into a match. They shouldn't let them because the rank is too seperate between the 25 and the 4. This would prevent boosting and would keep the players skills in line with each other.

  • 06.03.2009 1:08 PM PDT

Posted by: TOM T 117
Posted by: Jay120171
Currently players are handicapped for the first 50-100 games. I would like this removed or lessened to try and keep very skilled players from beating up on sub-par opponents for game after game. I don't care if players can get to their highest skill in 10-20 games if it means they don't get to pick on less skilled players for 100's of games.
While I agree this ia an issue isn't it one that could be easier solved via the Halo 2 experience system? The True Skill system can be manipulated, users could purposefully lose huge amounts of games to attain a "rank lock" therefore meaning they can constantly beat up the lower skilled. If a points based system was established it would be much easier to push users up the table for the first 20 or so ranks and then increase in difficulty afterwards to establish the good players for those average.
Losing hundreds of games in H3 will not "rank lock" your skill, it will make it more volatile. Yes, you will go down but once you start playing legit again, you will go up very fast. This is all by design because when a player suddenly loses a bunch of game, the system becomes "unsure" of the players rank. This "certainty of rank" (sigma) is what controls how fast you go up or down. Now that you have a high sigma, the system raises you up very quickly once you start winning, much like when a player is new to a playlist.

Yes players could 'de-rank' but that is a waste of time and players would eventually grow bored of having to quit 20 games to beat up terrible players for 5 or so games. This could be created if the first few ranks were hard to go down from but easy to reach something the True Skill system couldn't easily create.This is exactly how the current Trueskill system works and why you see very little de-ranking. Most of the quitters do so out of some inaccurate feeling that having a NEG amount of EXP will help them rank friends up. In H2 we saw lots of de-rankers because you needed a certain amount of EXP to get to the next skill level. So, good players who de-ranked got a lot of games against inferior players because it took at least 6-8 games to gain 1 skill level.

I'm personally in favour of a revamped Halo 2 system where it is slightly easier to reach level 30 but from then on becomes increasingly difficult so that only the best of the best can reach the coveted 50. I don't think a system that accelerates the ranking process such as your refined proposal of Halo 3's True Skill is ideal, level 50 needs to be representative of the very best and a small number of games cannot accurately chart skill in my opinion.I will agree that it is too easy to attain the highest skill levels in H3. I also agree that only a select few should be 50's. The problem is the skill of the community kind of dictates how hard or easy it is to get to a skill level. There is not set amount of 'X' needed, you just have to consistently beat players of equal or higher skill to go up. That being said, I think the system can be tuned to make it harder at the top I would like it harder too.

Also remember that match quality (players happiness) is directly related to competitiveness. If a player is facing higher skilled opponents for too long, they will stop playing. If a player is facing lower skilled opponents for too long, they will get bored (unless they are like 13 years old). Idealy you want players to win and lose in equal amounts. In other words, you want to set up matches that have a high chance of being a tie (equal player skill). That is why I think the quicker a person goes up, the better it is for players. It is hard to combine that concept and use a EXP based system.

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Posted by: trigga trainzz
I voted other, for one reason. They should use the H3 ranking system, but with something new. The TrueSkill Ranking system has a bunch of information about your rank that Halo 3 does not tell you. It knows how many wins you are away from ranking up, ranking down, what ranks you haveto beat to rank up, how many wins or losses you have on that rank, etc. This info should be shown to the player! In some format at least! It would be a LOT less frustrating to a LOT of people if the system simply tells you all the info, and adapts to your next win or loss. Say the system tells you' 4 wins in a row to level 50", and then you lose and it tells you "6 or 7 wins in a row away from your 50" so that you at least have a general idea of where you stand on your rank. This would help a lot of people calm down who are trying to rank and are getting frustrated with never knowing what is really happening with their rank. i.e. those times when your 'rank locked' and win 14 or 15 in a row and wonder just what the hell is going on? The game should tell you if you need 50 wins in a row to rank up one level, it really should. Even a rough estimate, just something!! I know a lot of you guys will agree with me on this, it just makes sense. More than often ill hear from my friend "Yeah, im 1 win away from my 50 in mlg, i got 5 wins in a row on my 49." Then he rejoins my lobby after the game "FKIN B****-blam!-!!! I lost 1 game on my 49 and now im a 48! F THIS GAME!" If the game told you a little warning or something just so that you knew! "Warning - 1 loss away from de-ranking, 4 wins to rank up." Something like that would make a lotta sense. I have several friends and tons of xbl friends who have dropped this game entirely because of the ranking system, and not ever knowing the information that the ranking system does. This could only help the online ranked experience. You could also have the option to show/hide the indo if you play on your 50s a lot. Thoughts? Someone reply directly to this please. Personally I think it's a good idea, ive talked to a lot of people about it who feel the same way.
The Truskill system doesn't track a single one of the things you mentioned. It has no idea how many wins it will take to go up or how many losses you are away from going down. It simply doesn't work that way because how many games depends on the skill level of the people you are playing. The system doesn't know the skill level of the people you are playing until you play them. The system also doesn't know how wins or losses you have in a playlist. The main variables the skill system knows about you is your MU (skill) and your sigma (uncertainty). It uses those 2 variables along with a constant set by Bungie to give you your displayed skill level. It probably also tracks how many games played in a playlist too but it is unclear if it is actual wins and losses or if it is just total games played.

This is why there is no "bar" telling you how close you are to your next skill level on your service record. It could be 10 games or it could be 1. It all depends of the skill levels of your opponents.

[Edited on 06.03.2009 2:03 PM PDT]

  • 06.03.2009 1:53 PM PDT

The Risk Is Worth The Reward.
Cry Havoc And Let Slip The Dogs Of War.

I'm going to go with the COD system. Hearing members cry about not being able to rank up gets old fast. Who knows maybe having no ranks would be even better for everyone.

  • 06.03.2009 1:57 PM PDT

.
The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher regard those who think alike than those who think differently.

كل نفس ذائقة الموت

I'd like to see Trueskill used to match teams of similar skill in matchmaking but the skill levels in all playlists should be hidden.

I'm talking about removing ranked/unranked playlists and just having "playlists". No skill levels visible in any of them. No Highest Skill Level attached to your gamertag. No skill levels visible anywhere.

I'm torn on having EXP. I think having EXP has caused people to shun custom games because they don't see the point in playing if there's no potential reward. This has turned out to be a great loss since we have all these abilities to customize levels but few people interested in playing outside of regular matchmaking.


[Edited on 06.03.2009 2:03 PM PDT]

  • 06.03.2009 2:03 PM PDT
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The End

‘The conscious is cancerous if allowed to linger’

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Posted by: TheCyberFreak
I'm torn on having EXP. I think having EXP has caused people to shun custom games because they don't see the point in playing if there's no potential reward. This has turned out to be a great loss since we have all these abilities to customize levels but few people interested in playing outside of regular matchmaking.
This is why I think that a custom game search should be implemented. The problem arises when nobody on your friends list is playing custom games, something which happens regularly, a search would allow players who want to play custom games to jump right in and do as they wish rather than having their games dictated by a matchmaking system.

As for EXP being the root problem I guess, after consideration, that perhaps you're right. Social games in Halo 2 were much less serious as there was nothing at stake, no visible service record showing wins and loses (shown by EXP in proportion to games). Perhaps an option to hide your service record or even better remove skill level from public view and hide it away so only you can see it?

As for your comment on removing ranks entirely I do not think that would be a wise move by Bungie. People are competitive, we need to prove ourselves and wish to show our potential. A ranking system is the answer to this need. While it makes people stressed, makes people scream at their televisions and trash talk with a list of cheesy lines is irrelevant. Halo games would be much less popular if people weren't striving for their next high skill, often players who atain a 50 in every playlist grow quickly bored and don't play until a new playlist is released, such a scenario would likely occur in Halo as fans cried out for a skill system.

  • 06.04.2009 1:04 AM PDT

I think trueskill works fine for FFA, but it needs tweaking for team games.

  • 06.04.2009 1:09 AM PDT
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It should keep the one we have now - skill levels and EXP. There is certainly room for improvement, but it should remain the same system, in general.

  • 06.04.2009 1:39 AM PDT

Posted by: Sergeant Kyuun
I agree, but it takes less body shots to kill someone with a BR than headshots.

Posted by: Jay120171
I would like this removed or lessened to try and keep very skilled players from beating up on sub-par opponents for game after game. I don't care if players can get to their highest skill in 10-20 games if it means they don't get to pick on less skilled players for 100's of games.

I also would like any kind of EXP reward uncoupled from skill level. IMO, having to attain a certain skill level to get a certain perk is a bad idea. Much like Bungie did when they created playlist rank where it is only EXP based.


You would introduce a lot of variables there. The point of taking a long time to determine skill is that no one "lucks" their way through bad opponents to get the highest ranks. With a system like the one you advocate it would be ridiculously easy to language boost or anything else to the top ranks, then very had to go down so you can just boost others to those too.

I voted for the Halo 2 system, if you do extremely well you will go up quick, then you have to quit 20 games to get back down to fighting n00bs :P

  • 06.04.2009 2:15 AM PDT

Posted by: Sergeant Kyuun
I agree, but it takes less body shots to kill someone with a BR than headshots.

Posted by: TOM T 117
Posted by: TheCyberFreak
I'm torn on having EXP. I think having EXP has caused people to shun custom games because they don't see the point in playing if there's no potential reward. This has turned out to be a great loss since we have all these abilities to customize levels but few people interested in playing outside of regular matchmaking.
This is why I think that a custom game search should be implemented. The problem arises when nobody on your friends list is playing custom games, something which happens regularly, a search would allow players who want to play custom games to jump right in and do as they wish rather than having their games dictated by a matchmaking system.

As for EXP being the root problem I guess, after consideration, that perhaps you're right. Social games in Halo 2 were much less serious as there was nothing at stake, no visible service record showing wins and loses (shown by EXP in proportion to games). Perhaps an option to hide your service record or even better remove skill level from public view and hide it away so only you can see it?

As for your comment on removing ranks entirely I do not think that would be a wise move by Bungie. People are competitive, we need to prove ourselves and wish to show our potential. A ranking system is the answer to this need. While it makes people stressed, makes people scream at their televisions and trash talk with a list of cheesy lines is irrelevant. Halo games would be much less popular if people weren't striving for their next high skill, often players who atain a 50 in every playlist grow quickly bored and don't play until a new playlist is released, such a scenario would likely occur in Halo as fans cried out for a skill system.


Ehh- I think they should do away with the EXP system. 90% of people don't regard it as a "badge of honor" for playing so much, they look at your exp/game ratio and go "what a loser" and then insult you for it.

I think EXP is not a great system, one of the reasons I don't like CoD, the system without the ranks seems a bit pointless to me :P Play enough at any skill level and you will go up.

I think without EXP people would feel less pressure to play social games rather than customs just to go up in EXP ratio. I enjoyed socials in Halo 2 a lot more because they would frequently lead to trash-talking and maybe a custom game afterward. With EXP, you don't really see this as much, which is sad. :(

I think ranked should be the place where you play to get a high skill, keep the 50 as the highest but make it very hard to do as in Halo 2. Make a high rank something people really appreciate then you'll see more people keeping on to get that super high rank.

What sucks to me is when you're playing social and your own teammates are screaming at you like it's a ranked match, when it really doesn't matter if you win or lose :P

That's my two cents anyway.

  • 06.04.2009 2:21 AM PDT

Halo 3

  • 06.04.2009 2:21 AM PDT

I picked the current Halo 3 system cuase it works just fine and way better than all the rest. Personaly i think they need to make your rank invisable to you and everyone else, but still keep rankings just dont give a number. Everyone thinks that your rank means something when it does not. Any ranking system they come up with will have its flaws, some people are going to be HALO GODS, but try to stay at a low level so they can woop NOOBS and some will be lvl 50s and suck hardcore, then some will buy thier accounts and so on and so forth.

  • 06.04.2009 3:58 AM PDT
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Posted by: Meecrob4441
I picked the current Halo 3 system cuase it works just fine and way better than all the rest. Personaly i think they need to make your rank invisable to you and everyone else, but still keep rankings just dont give a number. Everyone thinks that your rank means something when it does not. Any ranking system they come up with will have its flaws, some people are going to be HALO GODS, but try to stay at a low level so they can woop NOOBS and some will be lvl 50s and suck hardcore, then some will buy thier accounts and so on and so forth.
My thoughts though are that Microsoft will want the level system to remain visible and on the True Skill system. Why? It promotes new accounts -> $$$ and also while working has significant flaws such as ranking up becoming very difficult -> $$$. I have personally considered the True Skill system as a con in the past, not Bungie's error as they've adopted Microsoft's system and just tweaked it but we all know how Micro$oft are will their money an example being the price tag on ODST...

Seeing as Bungie are independent let us hope they decide to use their own system rather than being subjected to the demands of Microsoft.

[Edited on 06.04.2009 4:35 AM PDT]

  • 06.04.2009 4:25 AM PDT
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Posted by: liljon39
If you have played halo 2, you would pick the halo 2 ranking : )

  • 06.04.2009 4:49 AM PDT

Posted by: Anon
i woke a bit ago and my son was playing halo 3 he was on forge i saw at the bottom of the screen was a charge for 35 dollars is that real or not did he charge 35 bucks or is that justfor the in game

-NO RECUITMENT MESSAGES PLEASE

If there must be a ranking system, and I suppose there must, then I would choose Halo 2. However, I'm a firm believer that the ranking system just promotes elitism, and I would be quite happy without it. I know that's just me though.

  • 06.04.2009 4:59 AM PDT
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NO GROUP INVITES!!!

No any ranking system or online leaderboards and statistics.

Private statistic records are fine and so is post game statistic but there really shouldn't be any ranking system.

Those just promote cheating and over competiveness.

Private records show you what you need to know and you can allways share those. I hate players statistics gathering in Halo 3... those are private. Or should be.

  • 06.04.2009 5:17 AM PDT
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‘The conscious is cancerous if allowed to linger’

"Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there."

I have a suggestion. Why not have it so that ranks are hidden in game and only visible privately and via your Bungie.net service record? It gives individual goals that can be shared and viewed via the internet but removes issues of rank based trash talking.

  • 06.04.2009 8:58 AM PDT
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"In Order to see the world right, you must first be consumed."-Unknown

COD for sure, its about how good you are, not your flippin team for good sakes.

  • 06.04.2009 9:10 AM PDT

The only good pace is a suicide pace, and today looks like a good day to die. - Pre

COD takes more time instead of skill while Halo 2 took pure skill rather than a lot of time. Halo 3 combines both skill (number rank) and time played (EXP) for a perfect system in my opinion.

  • 06.04.2009 9:12 AM PDT
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"In Order to see the world right, you must first be consumed."-Unknown

It does'nt matter anywho, because Im going to be busy enjoying modern warfare 2. Am I right?

  • 06.04.2009 9:18 AM PDT

Clearly because the desktop uses a 3 prong plug and a laptop uses a 2 prong plug, the microwave will fill your car with tostitos better

Why would anyone want the CoD system?

It reflects absolutely no skill, just how much time you play.

  • 06.04.2009 9:22 AM PDT

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