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Subject: Sierra 259 and 320 Resolution

Yar-har!

Spartan III's have different call signs then Spartan II's. Unlike the three numbers in a Spartan II's call sign, they have an added letter right before their three digits. I'm guessing they are in the second class of Spartan II's like Nicole-458 (even though she's technically non-canon).

  • 06.03.2009 11:14 PM PDT
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Posted by: AngelxDeath
You are right. And, if it weren't for the fact that the Spartan III program started for the exact reasons we're discussing, it would be a fool-proof explanation. In our logic, spending every dime we have for the safety of humankind makes sense, but there has to be a limit somewhere. Do we spend all our money on armor? Or do we spend it on carriers, or ships, to defend off-surface?



Realistically speaking, people wouldn't be worried about getting paid if they were about to die. Just saying.

  • 06.03.2009 11:15 PM PDT

Yar-har!

Posted by: Boziboy Master
Posted by: AngelxDeath
You are right. And, if it weren't for the fact that the Spartan III program started for the exact reasons we're discussing, it would be a fool-proof explanation. In our logic, spending every dime we have for the safety of humankind makes sense, but there has to be a limit somewhere. Do we spend all our money on armor? Or do we spend it on carriers, or ships, to defend off-surface?



Realistically speaking, people wouldn't be worried about getting paid if they were about to die. Just saying.


That's actually pretty unrealistic. If the future in the Halo Universe is the same as today, people who send supplies to the UNSC still care about money. If they didn't care, that would cause major economic problems after the war with the Covenant.

  • 06.03.2009 11:18 PM PDT
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Posted by: TDSpiral94
Spartan III's have different call signs then Spartan II's. Unlike the three numbers in a Spartan II's call sign, they have an added letter right before their three digits. I'm guessing they are in the second class of Spartan II's like Nicole-458 (even though she's technically non-canon).


She's not technically non-cannon, she is not cannon. She was created because team ninja wanted the MC, bungie said no, and a compromise was made.

  • 06.03.2009 11:18 PM PDT
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Posted by: TDSpiral94
Posted by: Boziboy Master
Posted by: AngelxDeath
You are right. And, if it weren't for the fact that the Spartan III program started for the exact reasons we're discussing, it would be a fool-proof explanation. In our logic, spending every dime we have for the safety of humankind makes sense, but there has to be a limit somewhere. Do we spend all our money on armor? Or do we spend it on carriers, or ships, to defend off-surface?



Realistically speaking, people wouldn't be worried about getting paid if they were about to die. Just saying.


That's actually pretty unrealistic. If the future in the Halo Universe is the same as today, people who send supplies to the UNSC still care about money. If they didn't care, that would cause major economic problems after the war with the Covenant.


Sorry, I should make myself more clear. I wasn't talking about the Halo Universe or how the economy works in it. I was simply referring to a real life situation where people were literally facing death, like gone forever.
Now, speaking of the Halo universe, I can understand there being a cost concern if there wasn't impending doom looming over their heads, but when a planet gets glassed...you do what you need to do. So, If people on earth were facing total annihilation where money doesn't mean anything THEN they wouldn't care about money. Anyways, my bad for going off topic.

[Edited on 06.03.2009 11:31 PM PDT]

  • 06.03.2009 11:29 PM PDT

I'm not super well versed in Halo lore of the books, but considering that they're trying to build a huge bond between ODST and Reach it seems, I'd imagine that since Dare is a partially trained Spartan III (right?) I'd assume Halo 4 would involve these guys.

I dunno, it just seems like a good way to sort of bring the halo universe to reach's fiction. Much like writing "remember reach" on the walls in Halo ODST.

[Edited on 06.03.2009 11:37 PM PDT]

  • 06.03.2009 11:35 PM PDT
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Posted by: K Funk
Posted by: Cadetak
This doesn't mean that a second class never existed. It wasn't cancelled only postponed, also one line of dialogue fixes that "She said that as a cover" or "somebody else took over the project" or "five minutes after she said that, it started up again".

If it's not a second class of Spartan 2s then Bungie is either breaking canon of the novel(entirely possible) or these Spartans mentioned are Spartan 3s.

Were the Spartan 3s even present on Reach(don't think so but not sure)?


So mendez trained them in six years? I think not. No one had the capability to produce them outside of Dr. Halsey... also to go further into that section of GoO...

"The effort to rain additional SPARTAN-II's was postponed indefinetly by Dr. Catherine Halsey," Ackerson said. "There were other candidates within the gene pool. but they were out of synch with her age restrictions protocols. And with the continuing war, her program funds were... diverted."

This is a refernece to the begining of the book where Ackerson begins his plan to create the S-III's. (Elaborated in chapter 2, page 42).

This took place on October 24, 2531.

so...

Mendez leaves November 2, 2525
Mjolnir mk IV completed november 27, 2525
Mjolnir mk V completed August 25, 2552
Mjolnir mk VI completed October 20, 2552.

Presumably if only one set of Mk VI armor was made, it would fit for your theory (though some prototype pieces were sent to reach)

But all i'm saying is that there is no agrument that you could make to back up that there was a second class of spartans, as it would go against current cannon and that there could be S-III's on reach. It's just unlikely.




Alright then we are left with Bungie breaking canon and them being Spartan 2s anyways or they are Spartan 3s.

If canon is kept Spartan 3s would make for a different gameplay experience more akin to ODST because they are comparatively weaker then S2s.

Of course the call signs don't match up for Spartan 3s either...so either way its breaking some continuity.

Spartan 3s seem very possible to me, considering the target audience of this game having a younger cast seems like an obvious move expecially considering Bungie seems to be having actual characters(as opossed to Chief who barely talks, we don't see him, and has little character). Also MC can play daddy and leader for his eventual return. "next generation of Spartan" is also on obvious selling point and attention grabber.




[Edited on 06.03.2009 11:38 PM PDT]

  • 06.03.2009 11:38 PM PDT
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Also, something I forgot that nobody is mentioning...who's to say callsigns are permanent in the UNSC? These can be either Spartan 2s or 3s that adopted different callsigns. Somewhat logical considering that if the Covenant keep hearing S117 over chatter all the time they are going to figure out who it is real quick, also getting relocated to different units or outposts can be a reason to get a new callsign.

  • 06.03.2009 11:40 PM PDT
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Frankly i think we're all getting hung up on something that is probably being taken completly out of context. Remember the whole cortana dialog from the halo 3 announcement trailer? That had nothing to do with what was happening in the game at that time. In fact all of those pieces of dialog were simply her cut scenes scattered through out the game.

As for the S-II's breaking cannon... there are plently of them on reach already. In fact, all of them... well except gray team. No cannon needs to be broken.

I'd still like to see the S-III's tho.

  • 06.03.2009 11:43 PM PDT
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Posted by: Cadetak
Of course the call signs don't match up for Spartan 3s either...so either way its breaking some continuity.


While were on that topic as well, i'd like to point out that the MC was never referred to as or identified him self as "Sierra-117" until Halo 3... some little things change.

  • 06.03.2009 11:46 PM PDT
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Posted by: K Funk
Frankly i think we're all getting hung up on something that is probably being taken completly out of context. Remember the whole cortana dialog from the halo 3 announcement trailer? That had nothing to do with what was happening in the game at that time. In fact all of those pieces of dialog were simply her cut scenes scattered through out the game.

As for the S-II's breaking cannon... there are plently of them on reach already. In fact, all of them... well except gray team. No cannon needs to be broken.

I'd still like to see the S-III's tho.


There were only 150 Spartan 2s. Spartan 3s used letters with there callsigns. So callsigns of 259 and 320 don't fit in with the novels...unless callsigns can be changed or they can retcon something in.

I'm still expecting Bungie to break canon for a number of reasons but if not that a sneaky retcon...like spartans that were never mentioned in the books but weren't denounced by the books either..."Super secret Spartan 4 Team" or something.

Hayabusas? LOL.

  • 06.03.2009 11:48 PM PDT
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Posted by: Cadetak
There were only 150 Spartan 2s. Spartan 3s used letters with there callsigns. So callsigns of 259 and 320 don't fit in with the novels...unless callsigns can be changed or they can retcon something in.

I'm still expecting Bungie to break canon for a number of reasons but if not that a sneaky retcon...like spartans that were never mentioned in the books but weren't denounced by the books either..."Super secret Spartan 4 Team" or something.


This I know... but the game is set as a prequel that is supposed to let us play out the events that happen on reach. We know what happens on reach. We know who is on reach. (Actually if you go through the forum it would seem that only about 10% have any clue... lol)

The call signs are certainly a mystery. A very annoying one... but this forum's banner gives us a pretty good idea of what we're going to be looking at for halo: recon, i think... we're going to meet some more of our beloved spartans.

How that works out, well... we'll figure that out in the coming year i guess. And until then... i'm gonna fight you tooth and nail in this thread that we're gonna be blowing the covenant back to high charity as Fred, Kelly, Anton, Grace &, Li... and maybe even Linda & The Chief.

lol.

Posted by: Cadetak
Hayabusas? LOL.


ROFLCOPTER!!

  • 06.04.2009 12:01 AM PDT

Yar-har!

If you listen closely to the AI talking in this audio clip then you might be able to hear something about a second class of Spartan II's. This is from the marketing campaign website, I Love Bees, mind you.

  • 06.04.2009 12:08 AM PDT
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Posted by: TDSpiral94
If you listen closely to the AI talking in this audio clip then you might be able to hear something about a second class of Spartan II's. This is from the marketing campaign website, I Love Bees, mind you.


Oh ****... i forgot all about the ilovebees ARG... hell. Was that considered cannon?

  • 06.04.2009 12:13 AM PDT
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Posted by: K Funk
Posted by: TDSpiral94
If you listen closely to the AI talking in this audio clip then you might be able to hear something about a second class of Spartan II's. This is from the marketing campaign website, I Love Bees, mind you.


Oh ****... i forgot all about the ilovebees ARG... hell. Was that considered cannon?


I don't know but somehow doubt it. Not much of the games marketing was actually true of anything...like the kids in the grass and all that stuff that was just more or less fluff.

  • 06.04.2009 12:15 AM PDT
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Posted by: Cadetak
I don't know but somehow doubt it. Not much of the games marketing was actually true of anything...like the kids in the grass and all that stuff that was just more or less fluff.


True. Much speculation about a john/kelly conection on that, though... which would have been on reach... OMG! lol. I'll look into it.

  • 06.04.2009 12:17 AM PDT
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Posted by: K Funk
Posted by: Cadetak
I don't know but somehow doubt it. Not much of the games marketing was actually true of anything...like the kids in the grass and all that stuff that was just more or less fluff.


True. Much speculation about a john/kelly conection on that, though... which would have been on reach... OMG! lol. I'll look into it.


Yeah I don't know anything about the ARG stuff. Obviously the boy in that trailer was John..but everything else is pure speculation because you know...it had nothing to do with the game(I half expect spartan 259 and 320 won't even be in Reach)

  • 06.04.2009 12:21 AM PDT
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Posted by: x Foman123 x
The ILB, IRIS, and Superintendent ARGs are completely consistent with Halo canon. It is unknown whether they are "official" canon because Bungie does not officially acknowledge that Alternate Reality Games are not real, but nothing has been found that is inconsistent with canon.


That's what Foman, just told me... so i guess since the i love bee ARG is technically not, not, not real .... the second class of Spartan-II's could be on reach...

My head hurts... lol.

[Edited on 06.04.2009 1:02 AM PDT]

  • 06.04.2009 12:59 AM PDT

For all argueing about the spartan 3s time frame. they were being trained and fighting in halo2 and 3. Thats why they had cameras at the begining when master cheifs in that orbital station, it was to devert atention away from the spartan 3s so they could be secretive. So no they will not be in reach because they were probably not even born yet. And as a side note alot of them die before they see any major action.

  • 06.04.2009 1:11 AM PDT
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Posted by: HOSEPH2313
For all argueing about the spartan 3s time frame. they were being trained and fighting in halo2 and 3. Thats why they had cameras at the begining when master cheifs in that orbital station, it was to devert atention away from the spartan 3s so they could be secretive. So no they will not be in reach because they were probably not even born yet. And as a side note alot of them die before they see any major action.


Check the first page. I fought for that point for a few posts. The s-III's were active over 10 years before the events that take place at reach.

  • 06.04.2009 1:16 AM PDT

F U ck the Police and Covenant

Sierra is just a call sign for marines. It is Spartan - 117 not Sierra - 117. There is no second generation of Spartan II's. If u read the books and the Wiki page of the game it says "The game is a prequel to Halo: Combat Evolved, taking place during the fall of Reach when there are many Spartan-IIs still in action." Sierra 259 is probably the group of marines call sign that was protecting the generators for the super MAC's that the spartan red team found when they "lost there bird". Cause only john linda and james went to the orbital station the other went to the ground to protect the generators.

  • 06.05.2009 6:54 PM PDT

F U ck the Police and Covenant

They are barely mentioned. Johnson is heavily implied to be one...in storytelling if its rumored or implied it usually means it is true(no need for a red herring here). So think Johnson.

Most died, the project was deemed a failure. Any survivors would be really old(like Johnson), MC himself is in his 40s I think...thinks Spartan 1s would be pushing 80. An old cast wouldn't be good for business.

They didn't have power suits...so even if they are Spartan 1s, they are in Spartan 2 armor and got recruited into that second program at some point.

Maybe one of them will be a Spartan 1...but not all of them.

The Spartan I's are the origanal spartans from sparta long ago that is obvious.

  • 06.05.2009 7:10 PM PDT

93% of statistics are lies. Formerly Xfire Grunt. Unfortunately, you can't change the WLID for your BNET account, so I had to create an alternate account. My other WLID was spam city (and it was my e-mail account too).

I would rather Bungie make their own canon then sticking to specific lines in the Halo books.

  • 06.05.2009 7:22 PM PDT

If you already live in heaven, Where do you go when you die?

One big flaw...

The events of Reach take place RIGHT after the first class of Sp-II 's were completed. There wouldn't be enough time inbetween to start another set, then halt it (according to the book), then re-start it and finish the second set in time for the Reach events. I don't even think MC gets Mark-VI until WAY after Reach, because Halo: CE takes place right after Reach, all the way to the destruction of the Halo ring.

sorry for stomping out the flame

  • 06.05.2009 7:31 PM PDT
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Posted by: Capitan Morgan
One big flaw...

The events of Reach take place RIGHT after the first class of Sp-II 's were completed. There wouldn't be enough time inbetween to start another set, then halt it (according to the book), then re-start it and finish the second set in time for the Reach events. I don't even think MC gets Mark-VI until WAY after Reach, because Halo: CE takes place right after Reach, all the way to the destruction of the Halo ring.

sorry for stomping out the flame


We know. lol. The MC get mk. VI at the beginning of halo 2. Check the first page for the time line.

  • 06.05.2009 7:40 PM PDT

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