Halo 3: ODST Forum
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  • Subject: One thing I dislike
Subject: One thing I dislike

Estefano Palacios, 20 years old.
Current Clan: FUERZA ECUATORIANA.

At the end you'll understand that the best drink to get drunk with is your own blood...

I am finally reading English based literature (I am ecuadorian, so I mostly read Spanish based), and I am finding 1984 by Blair something out of this world. I have already read 30 out the 100 Time Best Novels, who'd though English would be so enjoyable?

Well, so far I have loved the concept on Halo 3: OSDT. But one thing surprised me at the Gamespot feature when Joe Staten did in depth explanation on the first level of the game:
When he was playing he used melee attack to take down a Brute. This is, for me, completely nuts...

In Halo: Fall of Reach John was able to kill three ODSTs with his bara hands, on Halo: The First Strike he barely survived a fist fight against Brute, and as far as I am concerned no human other than a SPARTAN was able to take down ANY kind of covenant with bare hands (I have read all books, but Cole Protocol, and such thing has never happened). Taking the first two examples, extrapolating them and calculating the level of success of an ODST fighting against a Brute, we cannot argue that the ODST is incapable of even massaging a Brute to save his life.

For sake of the integrity of the story I hope Bungie really tunes down the melee when used against large Covenant. I can buy the idea of an ODST taking out a Grunt or Jackal with a punch, but a Brute? Give me a break.

Also, if four ODSTs (firefight) can take a whole Covenant platoon, why did the Humans loose so many colonies to the Covenant? (I have to note that one Elite obliterates four to five marines all by itself atleast it does so in the books, also, almost every ground battle was lost when the SPARTANS where absent)

I hope Bungie takes this into consideration, i cannot wonder what type of DEUX EX MACHINA they are planning to say in order to justify this things.

EDIT: For all of you guys saying that the Ground forces in Halo usually won in ground battles I have to say one thing: that is completely nuts too.

The Books constantly try to remind the reader how weak the humans are in comparison to the Covenant Elite and Brute Units. They also make multiple remarks on how underpowered and outsmarted regular Marines are against the Covenant. I have read comments in the thread, quite a lot, that the Covenant won because they retreated and glazed the planet. This is just false. To glace a planet the Covenant need first to kill every UNSC ship in orbit, as it takes their main defense weapon to glaze a planet, that and the process is long and time consuming.

The Covenant raped us in space and in ground and here are some examples:

1) Signa Octanus was destroyed fiercely by the Covenant, not even the SPARTANS mounted a retake mission.

2) When the Blue Team got to Reach the Covenant had already destroyed every human ground force with the first wave, we are talking about Reach, the main military planet.

3) On Halo Uprising it is more than obvious how the Covenant, even if they were outgunned (its Earth for gods sake), won singlehanded the ground fight.

4) Even in the Halo games if you leave the Marines on their own they are able to do nothing.

And all this argument is not about rendering the melee ineffective, its just about tuning it so that only with the Brutes it appears to be real, or atleast canonical.

PD: Pardon my english, it is not my first lenguage.



[Edited on 06.05.2009 9:06 PM PDT]

  • 06.04.2009 9:13 PM PDT
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Reach needs to be patched. It's the truth.

He didn't kill the Brute with a melee. He punched it and then shot it in the face

  • 06.04.2009 9:14 PM PDT

Posted by: DarkRathamantis
Well, so far I have loved the concept on Halo 3: OSDT. But one thing surprised me at the Gamespot feature when Joe Staten did in depth explanation on the first level of the game:
When he was playing he used melee attack to take down a Brute. This is, for me, completely nuts...

In Halo: Fall of Reach John was able to kill three ODSTs with his bara hands, on Halo: The First Strike he barely survived a fist fight against Brute, and as far as I am concerned no human other than a SPARTAN was able to take down ANY kind of covenant with bare hands (I have read all books, but Cole Protocol, and such thing has never happened). Taking the first two examples, extrapolating them and calculating the level of success of an ODST fighting against a Brute, we cannot argue that the ODST is incapable of even massaging a Brute to save his life.

For sake of the integrity of the story I hope Bungie really tunes down the melee when used against large Covenant. I can buy the idea of an ODST taking out a Grunt or Jackal with a punch, but a Brute? Give me a break.

Also, if four ODSTs (firefight) can take a whole Covenant platoon, why did the Humans loose so many colonies to the Covenant? (I have to note that one Elite obliterates four to five marines all by itself atleast it does so in the books, also, almost every ground battle was lost when the SPARTANS where absent)

I hope Bungie takes this into consideration, i cannot wonder what type of DEUX EX MACHINA they are planning to say in order to justify this things.


PD: Pardon my english, it is not my first lenguage.


I have asked similar things many a time in these forums, and the response is rarely any more intelligent than 'GAMEPLAY U N00B STFU' I would appear that the popular opinion is that without the ability to suckerpunch every 500kg alien you come across, the game just isn't any fun.

[Edited on 06.04.2009 9:20 PM PDT]

  • 06.04.2009 9:17 PM PDT

Headshot... Sticky sticky... Headshot...Stab...Evade Stab Sticky Stab Stab evade Sticky Stab Headshot Sticky Sticky!

actualy f one he shot its armour off and mashed it in the face.. those r books.. this is an effin game!

  • 06.04.2009 9:17 PM PDT

Fish<><

Well you have alot of really good points. The one thing that you have to remember is that this is just a game. When Bungie makes a game they create it with the mentality of game play over story. The decisions they make are made to bring up good game play,, therefor some story elements can't be as spot on as some may like.

Bungie is good at covering plot holes,, someone will figure out something. Just don't sweat it as much. Got to give them a little bit of slack. On the other hand if this was a movie where story was the primary focus then we would have a major problem.

And on the firefight note,, firefight is just a game mode which has no effect on the story line.

Btw your English was fine.

  • 06.04.2009 9:23 PM PDT
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Yeah just so you know, the books are more in depth and realistic then the game!!!! Read one of the Halo books and you'll know. In halo 3 the chief can kill a pack of brutes with beatdowns and not die, but in the book he barely kills one in hand to hand. Read what you just posted and then ask yourself which is more realistic. I would like it more if you couldn't beatdown brutes but maybe my mind will change when that's all I can do in a situation. ;)

[Edited on 06.04.2009 9:28 PM PDT]

  • 06.04.2009 9:27 PM PDT
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x iNViNCiiBLE x

It was on Normal Settings In Legendary its going to be a lot harder ;)

  • 06.04.2009 9:27 PM PDT
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I posted about this same issue earlier today. There is no reason an ODST should ever be able to go toe to toe with a brute in open combat. It's just stupid.

Don't say gameplay over story either, this isn't about story. This is about the lore, and a complete disregard for what you're playing as.

Part of me feels the design goals of this game were "remake halo 1" and they sat down and thought of ways to do that, and this was the answer.

Everything, save the story and a few minor points, looks like it plays exactly like Halo 1. At least in terms of how the character is designed to play.

My Full Thougths

[Edited on 06.04.2009 9:32 PM PDT]

  • 06.04.2009 9:29 PM PDT

Estefano Palacios, 20 years old.
Current Clan: FUERZA ECUATORIANA.

At the end you'll understand that the best drink to get drunk with is your own blood...

I am finally reading English based literature (I am ecuadorian, so I mostly read Spanish based), and I am finding 1984 by Blair something out of this world. I have already read 30 out the 100 Time Best Novels, who'd though English would be so enjoyable?

Posted by: BBrulz82
He didn't kill the Brute with a melee. He punched it and then shot it in the face


Actually that does not matter. Do you have any idea how many Newtons do you have to produce to be able to move and beat the staitc friction created by the normal of the weight an almost half pound gorilla?

  • 06.04.2009 9:29 PM PDT

Estefano Palacios, 20 years old.
Current Clan: FUERZA ECUATORIANA.

At the end you'll understand that the best drink to get drunk with is your own blood...

I am finally reading English based literature (I am ecuadorian, so I mostly read Spanish based), and I am finding 1984 by Blair something out of this world. I have already read 30 out the 100 Time Best Novels, who'd though English would be so enjoyable?

Posted by: Nitemare 43
Yeah just so you know, the books are more in depth and realistic then the game!!!! Read one of the Halo books and you'll know. In halo 3 the chief can kill a pack of brutes with beatdowns and not die, but in the book he barely kills one in hand to hand. Read what you just posted and then ask yourself which is more realistic. I would like it more if you couldn't beatdown brutes but maybe my mind will change when that's all I can do in a situation. ;)


Actually in Legendary i almost never hit a Brute with melee. Brute Shot btw...

  • 06.04.2009 9:30 PM PDT

B.U.N.G.L.E. Pro™

ಠ_ಠ

(●̮̮̃•̃)
./█\
..| |

Yea, what's with the unrealistic qualities in this game? I think my games that take place in a fictional time period with aliens and robots that control entire cities should be 100% realistic.

  • 06.04.2009 9:30 PM PDT

video game.

  • 06.04.2009 9:30 PM PDT

Estefano Palacios, 20 years old.
Current Clan: FUERZA ECUATORIANA.

At the end you'll understand that the best drink to get drunk with is your own blood...

I am finally reading English based literature (I am ecuadorian, so I mostly read Spanish based), and I am finding 1984 by Blair something out of this world. I have already read 30 out the 100 Time Best Novels, who'd though English would be so enjoyable?

To everyone that I have not quoted: THANKS! I agree with your point.

  • 06.04.2009 9:32 PM PDT

Estefano Palacios, 20 years old.
Current Clan: FUERZA ECUATORIANA.

At the end you'll understand that the best drink to get drunk with is your own blood...

I am finally reading English based literature (I am ecuadorian, so I mostly read Spanish based), and I am finding 1984 by Blair something out of this world. I have already read 30 out the 100 Time Best Novels, who'd though English would be so enjoyable?

DeathBringer669:
Yea, what's with the unrealistic qualities in this game? I think my games that take place in a fictional time period with aliens and robots that control entire cities should be 100% realistic.


I AiM u D1E:
video game.

Me:
The gameplay should fit the lore. The lore says only SPARTANS can have the strenght to do such thing.

Dont get me wrong, I put balance over lore anytime, but they should at least try.

[Edited on 06.04.2009 9:35 PM PDT]

  • 06.04.2009 9:33 PM PDT

Fish<><

Posted by: Innuendo
I posted about this same issue earlier today. There is no reason an ODST should ever be able to go toe to toe with a brute in open combat. It's just stupid.

Don't say gameplay over story either, this isn't about story. This is about the lore, and a complete disregard for what you're playing as.
.

You have a point there. When I said my gameplay over story bit I wasn't meaning to refer to the ODST smacking the brute in the face and killing him. As that also bothers me. We are mere humans in this game. Not giant super humans that have better boxing skills than rocky balboa. I hope they do nerf the melee just a little bit more to fit the lore that has already been set up.

[Edited on 06.04.2009 9:36 PM PDT]

  • 06.04.2009 9:34 PM PDT
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The issue with it being a game is moot. I get it's science fiction, but it needs to be self consistent, and this isn't even close to consistent with the previously established lore. A human can not kill a brute that easily, it's just insane when you look at everything else in the halo universe.

  • 06.04.2009 9:34 PM PDT
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It's a game.

/thread.

  • 06.04.2009 9:35 PM PDT

Headshot... Sticky sticky... Headshot...Stab...Evade Stab Sticky Stab Stab evade Sticky Stab Headshot Sticky Sticky!

i hope they dont nerf it to much.. remem in H1 u had to melee an elite 10times.. to remove its shields! and like 3 to kill it with no shields

  • 06.04.2009 9:36 PM PDT

Estefano Palacios, 20 years old.
Current Clan: FUERZA ECUATORIANA.

At the end you'll understand that the best drink to get drunk with is your own blood...

I am finally reading English based literature (I am ecuadorian, so I mostly read Spanish based), and I am finding 1984 by Blair something out of this world. I have already read 30 out the 100 Time Best Novels, who'd though English would be so enjoyable?

Posted by: Hardly Hidden
It's a game.

/thread.

I would have loved if you had atleast take the time to read the thread before ending it.

  • 06.04.2009 9:38 PM PDT

The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realise it doesn't say anything it's to late to stop reading it.

It's a game.In games you have to cut corners.It's not really a big deal IMO.

  • 06.04.2009 9:39 PM PDT

Feet First Into Hell.
ODST General since Halo 2
Xbox Live status - Repaired

www.judgegame.com

First off the melee is not the same as hand to hand combat, you have a weapon and while you may not be shooting it, it is much more damaging then using your fist or grappling with the enemy.

Second legendary is supposed to be what the story is like, feel free to attempt and melee a brute, you might get lucky and kill it........but thats not a very high success percentage.


Third we lost so many colonies because they could just retreat and glass an entire planet from orbit, as the books also state our only real victories were usually on the ground.

  • 06.04.2009 9:40 PM PDT
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I just posted this like 4 posts above:

The issue with it being a game is moot. I get it's science fiction, but it needs to be self consistent, and this isn't even close to consistent with the previously established lore. A human can not kill a brute that easily, it's just insane when you look at everything else in the halo universe.

My goodness.

  • 06.04.2009 9:40 PM PDT

Posted by: Hardly Hidden
It's a game.

/thread.

Aaaand my point is proven.

Its odd how people say that just because the game includes aliens and spaceships there's no need to be realistic. It's like they're just saying that they should throw all attempts at realism and canon to the wind because of it.

[Edited on 06.04.2009 9:42 PM PDT]

  • 06.04.2009 9:40 PM PDT

Estefano Palacios, 20 years old.
Current Clan: FUERZA ECUATORIANA.

At the end you'll understand that the best drink to get drunk with is your own blood...

I am finally reading English based literature (I am ecuadorian, so I mostly read Spanish based), and I am finding 1984 by Blair something out of this world. I have already read 30 out the 100 Time Best Novels, who'd though English would be so enjoyable?

Posted by: Innuendo
I posted about this same issue earlier today. There is no reason an ODST should ever be able to go toe to toe with a brute in open combat. It's just stupid.

Don't say gameplay over story either, this isn't about story. This is about the lore, and a complete disregard for what you're playing as.

Part of me feels the design goals of this game were "remake halo 1" and they sat down and thought of ways to do that, and this was the answer.

Everything, save the story and a few minor points, looks like it plays exactly like Halo 1. At least in terms of how the character is designed to play.

My Full Thougths


I read your thread, and I agree on the most part. About the ODST being a damage sponge, maybe Joe had some kind on cheat on (like on the E3 2003, he REALLY sucks!)

  • 06.04.2009 9:41 PM PDT

Masterchief=Chuck Norris

Yea, I was thinking we were going to have the darkness and a lot of cool gadgets to help us kill the brutes... I didn't realize we are the strongest humans in the world in this game... but maybe it will be more authentic on higher difficulties

  • 06.04.2009 9:42 PM PDT