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Subject: i want reach to be more like halo 2 campain
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  • Veteran Legendary Member

Halo: CE All the way, baby.

  • 06.05.2009 4:43 PM PDT

I love the entire Halo series, Halo 2 being my favorite of the games. I think that the universe is compelling and the story is deep, sweeping, and powerful. The hidden layers in the Halo trilogy and rich details of the backstory in the novels are something I love to be lost in, and im greatly looking forward to the story that Halo: Reach will weave. Bungie has carefully and lovingly crafted a mythic tale that will stay etched in my mind until the end.

Posted by: SweetTRIX
I find that funny as there are many that feel Halo2 is the weaker of the three games in terms of campaign. I do understand what you mean about the issue of scale however, and to that I agree.

Considering Reach was the largest outlying military stronghold of the UNSC I would expect some serious forces to be present at some point or another.


The ones that felt Halo 2 had a weak campaign were the ones that thought Halo 2 should have been a one-sided, cliche', stereotypical humans-crush-alien-scum story, with no depth or deep examining of the Covenant side of the war or anything. No Arbiter, no getting to know Covenant characters, just simple Master Chief pwns all story.

Halo 2 had the best campaign and i'll take it to the grave that it had the best music, the most dynamic environments, the best and most complex story, and the most immersive, in-depth experience of the whole Halo series. And it had the best multiplayer ;).

  • 06.05.2009 5:13 PM PDT

You want the campaign to be linear, small levels, with a low number of enemies on screen, and cruddy boss fights like Regret, and Tartar Sauce? (Heretic was tough) Not to mention the rushed feeling with texture pop-in everywhere, and the A.I. was badly polished, and the Elite's were slow and retarded in comparison to Halo CE.

[Edited on 06.05.2009 5:18 PM PDT]

  • 06.05.2009 5:14 PM PDT

Posted by: The Shepherd214
Posted by: SweetTRIX
I find that funny as there are many that feel Halo2 is the weaker of the three games in terms of campaign. I do understand what you mean about the issue of scale however, and to that I agree.

Considering Reach was the largest outlying military stronghold of the UNSC I would expect some serious forces to be present at some point or another.


The ones that felt Halo 2 had a weak campaign were the ones that thought Halo 2 should have been a one-sided, cliche', stereotypical humans-crush-alien-scum story, with no depth or deep examining of the Covenant side of the war or anything. No Arbiter, no getting to know Covenant characters, just simple Master Chief pwns all story.

Halo 2 had the best campaign and i'll take it to the grave that it had the best music, the most dynamic environments, the best and most complex story, and the most immersive, in-depth experience of the whole Halo series. And it had the best multiplayer ;).


It's not that they didn't want the Arbiter. They just wanted the Chief to actually have character development. Bungie left it to the books with no flashbacks whatsoever. In the end we got the Arbiter in place of uncovering the Chief's depth. Which isn't too bad. It just ended up feeling like Snake being replaced by Raiden a little, and that has never gone over well with fans. I'm just happy the fans have warmed up to the Arbiter in recent years. Not to mention the original game had a sense of hopelessness, and being alone with friendlies disappearing in the later half of the game due to the Flood. It also had a sort of mystery feel. It's like the mystery feel of the original Matrix lost in the sequels.

[Edited on 06.05.2009 5:24 PM PDT]

  • 06.05.2009 5:23 PM PDT
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I want it to be it's own campaign.

  • 06.05.2009 5:24 PM PDT

I love the entire Halo series, Halo 2 being my favorite of the games. I think that the universe is compelling and the story is deep, sweeping, and powerful. The hidden layers in the Halo trilogy and rich details of the backstory in the novels are something I love to be lost in, and im greatly looking forward to the story that Halo: Reach will weave. Bungie has carefully and lovingly crafted a mythic tale that will stay etched in my mind until the end.

Posted by: disgruntledfan2
You want the campaign to be linear, small levels, with a low number of enemies on screen, and cruddy boss fights like Regret, and Tartar Sauce? (Heretic was tough) Not to mention the rushed feeling with texture pop-in everywhere, and the A.I. was badly polished, and the Elite's were slow and retarded in comparison to Halo CE.


the only point you made that is actually true is the fact that Halo 2 did have a few glitches and it was not as technically polished as it could have been. The A.I. was superb you just think it wasnt because elites actually looked like they had weight to them when they rolled or moved unlike Halo CE, enemies flooded the screen especially in the New Mombasa and Delta Halo levels, and the boss fights were solid, better than no boss fights like in CE, and better than the crummy "shoot guilty spark 3 times with the laser" boss fight at the end of Halo 3.

[Edited on 06.05.2009 5:29 PM PDT]

  • 06.05.2009 5:28 PM PDT

daniel

i want reach online to be more like halo 2 also i want the same br feel the halo 3 br feels so shaky in halo 2 the br was so smooth also the faster weapon changes wer great i say make it identical to halo 2

  • 06.05.2009 5:31 PM PDT

Posted by: The Shepherd214
Posted by: disgruntledfan2
You want the campaign to be linear, small levels, with a low number of enemies on screen, and cruddy boss fights like Regret, and Tartar Sauce? (Heretic was tough) Not to mention the rushed feeling with texture pop-in everywhere, and the A.I. was badly polished, and the Elite's were slow and retarded in comparison to Halo CE.


the only point you made that is actually true is the fact that Halo 2 did have a few glitches and it was not as technically polished as it could have been. The A.I. was superb you just think it wasnt because elites actually looked like they had weight to them when they rolled or moved unlike Halo CE, enemies flooded the screen especially in the New Mombasa and Delta Halo levels, and the boss fights were solid, better than no boss fights like in CE, and better than the crummy "shoot guilty spark 3 times with the laser" boss fight at the end of Halo 3.


No. The Elite's in Halo CE strafed back in forth while shooting. In Halo 2 they were slow, and stood still while shooting, and they would go into some stupid crouch walk for no reason sometimes. Then they would get stuck behind boxes and shoot the boxes for five minutes, because they can't seem to get the fact that you are on the other side. The only time enemies flooded the screen were with the Drones. The Flood went from 30 characters on screen from Halo CE to like 15. It sucked. The levels were very linear as well. None of the areas matched the scope of Assault on the Control Room, and the transition from exterior to interior in the same level sucked. And don't even get me started on the physics glitches during the giant elevator level.

[Edited on 06.05.2009 5:37 PM PDT]

  • 06.05.2009 5:34 PM PDT

I love the entire Halo series, Halo 2 being my favorite of the games. I think that the universe is compelling and the story is deep, sweeping, and powerful. The hidden layers in the Halo trilogy and rich details of the backstory in the novels are something I love to be lost in, and im greatly looking forward to the story that Halo: Reach will weave. Bungie has carefully and lovingly crafted a mythic tale that will stay etched in my mind until the end.

Posted by: disgruntledfan2
Posted by: The Shepherd214
Posted by: disgruntledfan2
You want the campaign to be linear, small levels, with a low number of enemies on screen, and cruddy boss fights like Regret, and Tartar Sauce? (Heretic was tough) Not to mention the rushed feeling with texture pop-in everywhere, and the A.I. was badly polished, and the Elite's were slow and retarded in comparison to Halo CE.


the only point you made that is actually true is the fact that Halo 2 did have a few glitches and it was not as technically polished as it could have been. The A.I. was superb you just think it wasnt because elites actually looked like they had weight to them when they rolled or moved unlike Halo CE, enemies flooded the screen especially in the New Mombasa and Delta Halo levels, and the boss fights were solid, better than no boss fights like in CE, and better than the crummy "shoot guilty spark 3 times with the laser" boss fight at the end of Halo 3.


No. The Elite's in Halo CE strafed back in forth while shooting. In Halo 2 they were slow, and stood still while shooting, and they would go into some stupid crouch walk for no reason sometimes. Then they would get stuck behind boxes and shoot the boxes for five minutes, because they can't seem to get the fact that you are on the other side. The only time enemies flooded the screen were with the Drones. The Flood went from 30 characters on screen from Halo CE to like 15. It sucked. The levels were very linear as well. None of the areas matched the scope of Assault on the Control Room, and the transition from exterior to interior in the same level sucked. And don't even get me started on the physics glitches during the giant elevator level.


Actually i specifically remember the elites with their squads pouring out of the alleyways in the New Mombasa levels, and during the flood levels seeing the covenant fight the flood there were many models on screen. Not to mention, when the Covenant turn on each other, you have Brutes, jackels, and Drones fighting elites, hunters, and grunts all at once, which required rendering dozens of enemies at the same time.

The elites A.I. was far better than you say. They still strafed, they still rolled, they climb on boxes, they were super accurate on Legendary, grunts throw grenades to flush you out of cover, elites rolled away from explosions and charged plasma shots, they crouched and ducked at certain times.

Maybe its because you probably played the game on Easy, or Normal, or even Heroic. Ive noticed your enemies are clueless on these difficulties, because the AI is brilliant on legendary.

Your arguing with a guy who has probably beaten Halo 2 on legendary around 14-15 times, i know what im talking about because in the days of Xbox and PS2, when you had no Xbox Live, and no budget for new games, Halo CE, Halo 2, Star Wars Kotor, and Star Wars Battlefront were all i had to do as far as gaming goes ;).

[Edited on 06.05.2009 6:04 PM PDT]

  • 06.05.2009 6:01 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

I liked H2's campaign the least of the 3. Obviously there were things I liked about it, great music and whatnot. However, I just want my campaign to feel epic, which is a feeling not achieved by playing as some Elite in cheesy space environments. I want my campaign to be well-planned, well-done, beautiful, epic chaos.

  • 06.05.2009 6:06 PM PDT

ODST has made me want them to make Reach different. i want the same core gameplay in tact (modified how halo has changed through its sequels is fine) but you know, how about a different design idea? Dunno, but I feel like Reach should be, and would be, a good game to chnage it up a bit. Considering the way they did ODST though, I'd imagine Reach won't be a straight halo game either.

In general though, there's several locations I want to see, namely the pillar of autumn

[Edited on 06.05.2009 6:15 PM PDT]

  • 06.05.2009 6:13 PM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

Posted by: The Shepherd214
Posted by: SweetTRIX
I find that funny as there are many that feel Halo2 is the weaker of the three games in terms of campaign. I do understand what you mean about the issue of scale however, and to that I agree.

Considering Reach was the largest outlying military stronghold of the UNSC I would expect some serious forces to be present at some point or another.


The ones that felt Halo 2 had a weak campaign were the ones that thought Halo 2 should have been a one-sided, cliche', stereotypical humans-crush-alien-scum story, with no depth or deep examining of the Covenant side of the war or anything. No Arbiter, no getting to know Covenant characters, just simple Master Chief pwns all story.

Halo 2 had the best campaign and i'll take it to the grave that it had the best music, the most dynamic environments, the best and most complex story, and the most immersive, in-depth experience of the whole Halo series. And it had the best multiplayer ;).


You are quite mistaken friend, several people that I know that did not like Halo2 didn't like it because the two stories they pushed were highly condensed and poorly scripted. It would have been great if they spent more time with both characters but they didn't, the spent too much time making the game for the "FPS FTW" shooter addicts and lacked on the great story that placed the 1st on the highest tier of games both of it's time and since.

Personal opinion does not take away from the fact that they tried to accomplish far too much with such a shrunken down campaign. Splitting the story up between two main characters took away from their ability to tell a complete story. Add in one of the most terrible level designs (Cairo Station, legendary) and pathetic AI and you have a very inferior sequal.

Don't misunderstand the critique, I enjoyed the game, but it is in now way superior to the first or third from a design standpoint. There may be some scripting and que's that Reach would benefit from, but that could be said about all three and possibly the fourth Halo game.

  • 06.05.2009 6:13 PM PDT

I love the entire Halo series, Halo 2 being my favorite of the games. I think that the universe is compelling and the story is deep, sweeping, and powerful. The hidden layers in the Halo trilogy and rich details of the backstory in the novels are something I love to be lost in, and im greatly looking forward to the story that Halo: Reach will weave. Bungie has carefully and lovingly crafted a mythic tale that will stay etched in my mind until the end.

Posted by: Andfx8
I liked H2's campaign the least of the 3. Obviously there were things I liked about it, great music and whatnot. However, I just want my campaign to feel epic, which is a feeling not achieved by playing as some Elite in cheesy space environments. I want my campaign to be well-planned, well-done, beautiful, epic chaos.


You didnt think that fighting in New Mombasa was epic? The towering buildings, the huge suspension bridge that you drove a Scorpion over, the beach fights along the shore, the car tunnel sequences, the introduction of the giant Scarab, and the sweeping music score that accompanied every last minute, ending with a massive Slip Space entry explosion from the Prophet of Regret's ship that devestated most of New Mombasa(which is where Halo ODST will pick up)?

Halo 3 was reduced to fighting in small abandoned factories(The Storm), empty, open plateaus, cliff sides(Tsavo Highway), linear jungle levels(Sierra 117), and old military bases that "Were based on old tech"(Crow's Nest)? this was defending Earth in Halo 3 compared to Halo 2? i just dont get it.

  • 06.05.2009 6:14 PM PDT

Also, Halo 2's campaign was great, but it was open enough. Too linear.

Halo 3's environments weren't always inspired enough.

* halo reach definately needs, assuming it can fit within the fiction (perhaps another cause why the spartans die?) a library type level. And not cortona or the halo 2 one, I mean quite literally a repetitive long level with doors that take forever to open with a huge, huge sense of scale---> that's another thing they must remember. Forerunner stuff doesn't always seem to be built to human scale.

* also, something that's pretty much been confirmed---> screw earth. While ODST's new mombasa stuff is neat, the feel of forerunner structures mixed with some alien ships is way better.
---> truth is though, thye've already pretty much planned their levels fully assuming they worked on this since 3.

[Edited on 06.05.2009 6:21 PM PDT]

  • 06.05.2009 6:17 PM PDT

Posted by: The Shepherd214
Posted by: disgruntledfan2
Posted by: The Shepherd214
Posted by: disgruntledfan2
You want the campaign to be linear, small levels, with a low number of enemies on screen, and cruddy boss fights like Regret, and Tartar Sauce? (Heretic was tough) Not to mention the rushed feeling with texture pop-in everywhere, and the A.I. was badly polished, and the Elite's were slow and retarded in comparison to Halo CE.


the only point you made that is actually true is the fact that Halo 2 did have a few glitches and it was not as technically polished as it could have been. The A.I. was superb you just think it wasnt because elites actually looked like they had weight to them when they rolled or moved unlike Halo CE, enemies flooded the screen especially in the New Mombasa and Delta Halo levels, and the boss fights were solid, better than no boss fights like in CE, and better than the crummy "shoot guilty spark 3 times with the laser" boss fight at the end of Halo 3.


No. The Elite's in Halo CE strafed back in forth while shooting. In Halo 2 they were slow, and stood still while shooting, and they would go into some stupid crouch walk for no reason sometimes. Then they would get stuck behind boxes and shoot the boxes for five minutes, because they can't seem to get the fact that you are on the other side. The only time enemies flooded the screen were with the Drones. The Flood went from 30 characters on screen from Halo CE to like 15. It sucked. The levels were very linear as well. None of the areas matched the scope of Assault on the Control Room, and the transition from exterior to interior in the same level sucked. And don't even get me started on the physics glitches during the giant elevator level.


Actually i specifically remember the elites with their squads pouring out of the alleyways in the New Mombasa levels, and during the flood levels seeing the covenant fight the flood there were many models on screen. Not to mention, when the Covenant turn on each other, you have Brutes, jackels, and Drones fighting elites, hunters, and grunts all at once, which required rendering dozens of enemies at the same time.

The elites A.I. was far better than you say. They still strafed, they still rolled, they climb on boxes, they were super accurate on Legendary, grunts throw grenades to flush you out of cover, elites rolled away from explosions and charged plasma shots, they crouched and ducked at certain times.

Maybe its because you probably played the game on Easy, or Normal, or even Heroic. Ive noticed your enemies are clueless on these difficulties, because the AI is brilliant on legendary.

Your arguing with a guy who has probably beaten Halo 2 on legendary around 14-15 times, i know what im talking about because in the days of Xbox and PS2, when you had no Xbox Live, and no budget for new games, Halo CE, Halo 2, Star Wars Kotor, and Star Wars Battlefront were all i had to do as far as gaming goes ;).


Nope I played on Legendary multiple times with my brother, and by myself. I'm the only person out of my friends to beat Cairo Station's swarms in the hangars by myself. Never played normal or easy. The A.I. had more moves than in Halo CE, but they were far from polished, and they slowed them down extremely, and even made them shorter in Halo 2 thanks to Elite's being in multiplayer as well. And while they did flood out in decent numbers. They came out in set groups at a time. You kill a group, and then they send a new group while some of the bodies disappear. In Halo Combat Evolved there were far more enemies. I played through just to count how many enemies I can get on screen. In Halo 2 you never had a moment like at the end of Two Betrayals where you can activate the Flood, Wraiths, Elites, Invisible Elites, Jackals, Two Hunters, Grunts, and Shade Turrets all at the same time while trying to get the two Banshees defended near the end of the level.

Not to mention Tartarus was a mediocre boss fight. He just ran at you slowly, and you had to shoot him when Johnson knocked his shields down. He wasn't hard. He just had a big life bar, and took a repetitively long time on Legendary. The only hard part was fighting the other Brutes that come out and help him. I beat Regret the first time through on Legendary rather easily. I jumped on his chair pound in his face. He teleported, rinse and repeat another two times. Again the only hard part were the sword Elites. Not the boss himself. If you want good boss fights Metroid is a great example. You are supposed to use skill and speed to dodge their attack patterns. They change their patterns, and you change your dodging and attacking tactics, mixing in a few hits in-between while trying to figure out the right moves to do the most damage. Sometimes a mix of different patterns. In shooting games like Halo it's just point and shoot with one tactic.

[Edited on 06.05.2009 6:39 PM PDT]

  • 06.05.2009 6:32 PM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

On the subject of Brutes, they were a terrible enemy in the 2nd game, they were nothing more than damage sponges. The only cause of death i've ever suffered at the hands of a Brute in that game was because I ran out of ammo because the poor hit detection didn't give me my headshots when they should have.

Even on legendary they were not that challenging, and I agree whole heartedly about the Tartarus battle, the only hard thing was getting shot at by others bruts from far away, and that was an easy fix.

  • 06.05.2009 6:51 PM PDT

Fantastic website
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I enjoy fighting the elites more and i loved the guitar in halo 2

  • 06.06.2009 4:03 AM PDT

Fantastic website
__________(˜˜˜||˜˜˜˜||˜˜˜˜˜)_∏_______
l ---------____.`=====.-.~:________\___|================[oo]
|_|||___/___/_/~```|_|_|_|``(o)----------<)

I also loved the fact that there was two sides in the halo 2 storyline, but i am not sure weather this will be in reach

  • 06.06.2009 9:01 AM PDT

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If anything, Halo:Reach should follow the example of the Halo 2 trailers that would never come to be. I'm talking of course about the E3 campaign demo and the original announcement trailer. Both displayed large scale combat, more human interaction, and a feeling as though humanity was truly pressed up against the wall and vying for its very survival in the conflict.

Halo 2 and 3 made it seem as though Humanity was invincible and that the Covenant weren't even attacking or killing people on Earth. The Master Chief felt too robotic, despite the change of his looks, because he barely interacted with humans. In Halo:CE you see him help a marine into the pod, you see him hold a dead marine as he falls into his arms when the door opens. You also saw a bunch of marines and heard what they had to say. It felt more human in that sense. Halo 2 brought in the Arbiter and while it was great to see the other side of the story, I cant help but think of Tropic Thunder of all things. "You never go full blown retarded" and thats what Bungie essentially did by making everyone go full blown Elite. People couldnt connect as soon as the human element was gone.

I'd like to see more of the Human perspective in Reach and hear more about things going on elsewhere away from the main character. Not to mention, but I'd love to see things like Pelicans just flying over, Longswords blowing things up, combat in space, Maybe a playable Section where we see the Master Chief pilot the pelican through space to the gamma station to eliminate the Circumference's NAV computer. Something that will show scale and the human effort.

  • 06.06.2009 9:15 AM PDT

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Hell no. Despite the fact that playing as the Arbiter was amazing (and I'd like to have seen it return for Halo 3), Halo 2 was unbeliavably scripted, there was very little in the way of the free flowing gameplay which is so prevalent in Halo CE and Halo 3. I'd much rather Bungie took their time and made the game good, the storyline elements after all can still be got across without sacrificing gameplay.

[Edited on 06.06.2009 9:25 AM PDT]

  • 06.06.2009 9:24 AM PDT
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

Sure, fighting in New Mombasa was epic, but for how long was that? Two levels? I liked all Halo's campaigns, and I've enjoyed every story told, but for some reason completing H2's campaign didn't really leave me feeling satisfied. Yes, there was a lame cliffhanger ending, but the overall experience just wasn't visceral enough. Or something. I'm not sure this is something I can quantify with words. However, there were some battles that were really awesome in H2 (i.e. that Banshee battle, the scene were MC walks in on a battle between Brutes, Elites, etc, and the scene where the Arbiter escorts Johnson).

I dunno.

  • 06.06.2009 10:43 AM PDT

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