Halo 3: ODST Forum
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Subject: ODST Timeline and why we should fight Elites.

Posted by: Dr Steve
Posted by: DSR Chainz
Posted by: Godavari
Posted by: DSR Chainz
Your gonna set there and tell me that all the elites left on that one ship????

Yep.


That makes less since than it raining cats and dogs.

That is plausible.

I don't know why, but once it did rain frogs in Mexico. probably got whipped up in a storm.


Wasn't that like New Mexico, and wasn't that because of a tornado?

  • 06.07.2009 8:18 AM PDT

Knowledge talks, wisdom listens.

Posted by: x Foman123 x
Actually, I find that I'm more invincible without pants, which is why I am not wearing any at the moment.

It seems like the Covenant ships have the capability to load massive amounts of units in short a time though. In Halo: CE Chief and a squad of marines infiltrated a ship and all it took was securing the lift to the ship. so it may be possible

This flame war's gone long enough.....

[Edited on 06.07.2009 8:21 AM PDT]

  • 06.07.2009 8:20 AM PDT

In the Halo universe, ALL of the weapons, equipment and vehicles we've seen ingame would still exist at the same time. I mean, the UNSC is a huge organisation, so it makes sense that we see such a wide assortment of human tech. We just don't happen to come across it all in any particular game. In fact, the only thing that really doesn't make sense is the issue at hand - why we're fighting Brutes instead of Elites. There'll be an explanation for it, but it's still annoying.

  • 06.07.2009 8:22 AM PDT
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Posted by: evilcam
Gz, I'd kill the whole world for you




3-19-07

While I would LOVE to fight Elites again, it isn't actually part of the time line. When the Prophet left all the important capital ships left as well. (I.E. Elite ships.) Leaving only the lower value Brutes to do the cleanup work.

It sucks, but it is actually along with the cannon.

  • 06.07.2009 8:25 AM PDT
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it appears you have fallen into a sarchasm...
its the gap between someone making a sarcastic comment, and you picking up on that sarcasm...

Posted by: DSR Chainz
Posted by: Dr Steve
Posted by: DSR Chainz
Posted by: Godavari
Posted by: DSR Chainz
Your gonna set there and tell me that all the elites left on that one ship????

Yep.


That makes less since than it raining cats and dogs.

That is plausible.

I don't know why, but once it did rain frogs in Mexico. probably got whipped up in a storm.


Wasn't that like New Mexico, and wasn't that because of a tornado?

Sorry, I meant New Mexico.

I suppose it could have been caused by a tornado

  • 06.07.2009 8:25 AM PDT

Posted by: EpicFailMan50
It seems like the Covenant ships have the capability to load massive amounts of units in short a time though. so it may be possible

This flame war's gone long enough.....


Yes, i don't see why they think they have to be wrong for me to be right.

I get that its most likely JUST BRUTES. I don't care about the weapons and only reason I mentioned it was because, DUA it was not in the game and now would be in the same area, and yet they took the BR out. . . . In fact that the only reason I said anything about that, sure its a small detail but come one your gonna tell me that there's not BR's but there are AR's um sorry, that's just off.

As for the time line it makes since. even if you dont want it to because you have some IDEA. . . with no proof that back it up. Thats all nice, but get proof, making an assumption, just because you think something happened does not make it true.

The time line said they should be on Earth. because Regret brought a Fleet of them with him, Sure there were Brutes, and sure they could have out numbered the Elites 3 to 1.

All Im saying is, they should be, and if they are YAY i called it. Bungie lies get over it. If not Ill play the game. . . Go elites would have been cool in firefight since there are like 7 different classes of them. and than get over that and go back to playing Halo 3 and what ever game comes our next.

  • 06.07.2009 8:28 AM PDT

I am a Halo 3 Failure.

Elites aren't there because they were off guarding the Prophet of Regret, because at the time Elites were the protectors of the Prophets, and as going to Halo takes priority over guarding some blown up city, they sent the Brutes to do that job.

  • 06.07.2009 8:32 AM PDT

Snakie Purple.

"Hamdog, Hamdog, Hamdog, Hamdog"-Hamdog.

Twatter

So? Calm down about the cannon. Bungie has aid Regret took all the Elites with him, and left the brutes behind. Would you rather have Bungie revert back to halo 2 models for this game? The point is having fun, not picking it apart to find every small piece of inconsistency.

Oh, and the pistol replaces the BR, deal with it.

  • 06.07.2009 8:36 AM PDT

LW45 TS40 TO40 TSW35 TSN35 TT30 SB30 MLG25

Bungie lie, true. But I have a hunch that this time they're telling the truth.

I think that everything Bungie has included in ODST can be explained within the realm of canon; the question is, should Elites be absent from the game?

Bungie could state that the ODST platoon dropped during the slipspace rupture were intended to operate silently, hence the absence of the BR. They could argue that Chief wasn't equipped with a Laser in Halo 2 because there were still kinks in the weapon that could have led to undesirable consequences. Canonical consistency isn't really an issue.

Personally, I am happy with every major change and design decision, except the removal of Elites. Yes, Bungie could argue that they were all killed in the slipspace rupture, but they could also argue that many more were dropped into the city from Regret's frigates.

And if they could find a way to integrate Elites into the game, I truly believe they should have.

Which is why I'm a little disappointed.

[Edited on 06.07.2009 9:01 AM PDT]

  • 06.07.2009 8:57 AM PDT

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Posted by: DSR Chainz
Posted by: kalle90
Posted by: DSR Chainz
But why Brutes?

In the wake of Regret's shameful retreat from New Mombasa, the Prophet of Truth continued his maneuvering - one eye always on his ultimate goal: his rightful and holy ascension. For Truth, his own personal passage was paramount. His Godhood would not be denied. Everything else was secondary. [/quote]

This is from Bungie, and all of this takes place after Regret dies, not before.

SO in there own timeline its off.


"Regret's shameful retreat"

Nowhere it says Truth deployed forces after Regret's death.

Truth didn't want Elites to be on Earth when he planned to go there with Brutes. He didn't want to leave humans alone. Solution: Send in Brutes.


You need to remember the dates, ODST happens on the 20th of October, 6 hours after regrets jump. It takes them 12 days to get to Halo number 2.

I myself do not remember reading anything about regret taking all the Elites with him, will I agree that he took some with him, yes, but the whole fleet did not leave Earth, just the one ship.

So in the ODST time line, Elites would still be on Earth.

The quoted test by bungie, plainly states that Truth sent the Brutes back to Earth after regrets death, because he did trust the Elites, using Regrets death as an excuse to change the guard. Because the Brutes were more than happy to follow orders.



So you did get that from the books. The books are not done by Bungie. Ultimately Bungie owns Halo so that's what I go with. Even with the dates having Brutes take the place of Elites isn't impossible.

I didn't see anything in that text implying Truth send Brutes to Earth after Regret's death. It said "Regret retreated" and "Truth sent in Brutes". His plan was with Brutes, even if he trusted Elites I don't think he would have wanted them to be there when the betrayal happens. It would have been convient not to have 3rd party around when he executes the "order 66"

There were around 4 ships on Earth. They all didn't necessarily invade Earth. They could have been in places other than New Mombasa.

Things like Mongooses, Spartan Lasers, Spectres could simply be absent from the places Chief visited in Halo 2. That makes only the lack of BRs bother me. There should atleast be empty BRs and Elite corpses around. There are Brute Plasma Rifles afterall.

  • 06.07.2009 9:20 AM PDT

Bungie said there will be no elites to fight. Mabey Truth told all the brutes to kill all the elites left on earth as a beginning of the Great Schism. Possibly You will find elites that will aid you in ODST.

  • 06.07.2009 9:24 AM PDT

Personally, I think an actual "skilled" person in Halo 3 is someone who knows how to win with every weapon and combo in the game, not just a single weapon like the BR, Sniper, or even the AR. Of course, that excludes me, as I have yet to get a kill with dual plasma pistols. :D

I'd just like to say something - Halo 3 does have programming for enemy Elites, for when you betray too many of them and they start to attack you.

  • 06.07.2009 9:34 AM PDT

Posted by: DSR Chainz
The game begins 6 hours after Halo 2's Level 5 Metropolis.

Level 3 Metropolis. Your argument is now invalid.

  • 06.07.2009 9:58 AM PDT
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Just call me Najar.

i would like if bungie could put elites and brutes to fight against you till you get to the timeline where the civil war occurs, when that happened they would be fighting against eachother while fighting you, and after that you could get the elites as allies and the brutes to fight i dont know

[Edited on 06.07.2009 10:01 AM PDT]

  • 06.07.2009 10:00 AM PDT
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As a great man has said before "..." That is where the truth lies my friends

Posted by: DSR Chainz
Posted by: Gottalovec4
There are already several topics about this. And I can end your theory with one point.

The elites left with Regret. and the Prophets started replacing Elites even before the Civil War started.


And were my friend does it say that? No in any books I've read, nor games I've played. That is speculation.


Halo Cole Protocol, The Brutes Betrayed the Elites under one of the Prophets commands.

  • 06.07.2009 10:06 AM PDT

Even though the Brutes came to favor after the Chief left Earth, the Elites were already losing favor after the Arbiter, then Shipmaster's, failed attempt to destroy the Pillar of Autumn. In the case of weapons, vehicles, etc. being non-canon, who's to say they weren't all just in development in Halo 2 and they were shipped in large during Halo 3 or maybe you just didn't have access to it at the time. Why would you drive a Mongoose with a Scarab running about? ODST's are different from Marines who have the BR's. The Brutes could've just developed armor during Halo 2. Bungie said Halo 3 would be the last Halo game with Master Chief in it. And you should go back to school and check up on your spelling, grammar, and sentence structure.
Posted by: DSR Chainz
So, I've see some thread on this, but none of them go back and look at the Halo time line to make a good case as to why we should. ((Even if we do not.))

But there have been things that Bungie has said that make you re-think this.


BRUTE (Jiralhanae)

Massive and ape-like. Many have been observed speaking human languages. Depending on location and MOS they will be encountered in groups up to eight.

They are fearless, vicious opponents and must not be underestimated. Currently, they fill the command role that Elites occupied previously. Whether or not this is indicative of a power shift within the Covenant is of no consequence to the current operation. ANYTHING that seeks to obstruct the successful completion of your mission is a legitimate target.


One if this is the case Bungie you -blam!- up your own time line. . . Good job.

But lets not dwell on such things, surly Bungie would never mess up that bad.

There's this part

Whether or not this is indicative of a power shift within the Covenant is of no consequence to the current operation. ANYTHING that seeks to obstruct the successful completion of your mission is a legitimate target.


I wonder why they would say that ? If your just fighting the Halo 3 sand box of bad guys, why allude to more, after you said there wouldn't be any.


We realize that the Elites are of a fan-favorite, so it's probably wise to set aside your compassion and steel yourself for what is about to come. There are no Elites to fight in Halo 3: ODST.


In all the tread I've looked in no one has looked up, the real time line Halo 3 ODST, is more like Halo 2 ODST with Halo 3 graphics.

Halo 3 ODST does not take place between Halo 2 and 3 like were lead to believe, unless the end is in Halo 3.

The game begins 6 hours after Halo 2's Level 5 Metropolis.

The next level is the Arbiter, were you become the Arbiter.

This happens all happens on October 20th 2552

Delta Halo happens November 2, 2552

12 days latter.


Its not till November that


A) The Master Chief tracks down and kills the Prophet of Regret on Installation 05.
and
B) High Charity arrives at Installation 05. Witnessing the assassination of the Prophet of Regret, the Prophet of Truth replaces the Honor Guard Elites with Brutes. Insulted, the Elite Councilors threaten to resign from the High Council.
C) The Arbiter and Tartarus are sent to retrieve The Index. The Arbiter successfully takes the Index, but Tartarus tries to kill him and takes the Index from him, as he was secretly ordered to do so by the Prophet of Truth.
D)Most of the Elite Councilors are taken to the surface of Installation 05 where they are murdered by the Brutes.
E) Tartarus declares war on the Elites, and the Battle of High Charity begins. Fighting between Elite and Brute forces breaks out all over High Charity. As word spreads, fighting takes place throughout the Fleet, as Elite and Brute controlled ships attack one another.


Now ODST is set on the 20th of October, during the events of Halo 2, in the First Battle of Earth at Mombasa.

12 days before the Great Schism the Covenant civil war.

And even though the game takes place during the events of Halo 2 First Battle of Earth and Battle of Installation 05; all of the character, weapon, and vehicle models were taken from Halo 3, creating an inconsistency within the canon already, sure we like the stuff, but some consistency would be nice, right?

The Brute's have armor, Spike Grenade, Flame Grenade. And we have Mongoose, and Spartan laser, Oh and lose the BR ? ? ? WTF BBQ?

So, in all logic we should be fighting Elites, there fun they were our first, and they go wort wort wort when we kill them, why would Bungie rob us of this as an ODST?

Now what Bungie could be doing, that hole blatantly lying to us that they do.
And when we all kill our first Elite, were filled with joy and say. . . " OH Bungie, I see what you did there."

I mean they said Halo 3 was there last Halo game, look what we have 2 more. Bungie is good a misleading us.

And for you people that say, "OH but its built on Halo 3 and the Elites are our friends the programming can't be changed. . . ."

WHAT? Cant be changed. . . SO your gonna tell me they can take rockets off my Hornet but they cant change an elite? Or Your gonna tell me that they have built a new program for Reach because 100% your gonna kill Elites in Reach

So ether there lying or they don't know there own time line, and by the time they remembered it it was "Oh well -blam!- to late."



  • 06.07.2009 10:14 AM PDT
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Non-Playable Charater

Posted by: a squirreI
Posted by: DSR Chainz
The game begins 6 hours after Halo 2's Level 5 Metropolis.

Level 3 Metropolis. Your argument is now invalid.


It is the 5th level, because the cinematics are their own level.

As for the Elite issue, I cannot understand why they left the Elites off at start, but it is explained
well enough so I can take it. But why Brutes have energy shield in ODST, but then get rid off them in Halo 3? I bet it makes their hair all messed up.

[Edited on 06.07.2009 10:25 AM PDT]

  • 06.07.2009 10:21 AM PDT

Posted by: DSR Chainz
Posted by: EpicFailMan50
The Elites left with the prophet. Easy as that. Now stop getting worked up. its Bungies universe, they could make it rain cats if they wanted to.


Again only one ship left, Regrets. Your gonna set there and tell me that all the elites left on that one ship???? I don't think so. Because In Halo 3 It states the elites have been helping you since the end of Halo 2 during the 2 weeks that this, change of what the Covenant is took place. And the two weeks that take John to get back Earth.



You have to remember that the Slipspace jump almost leveled the city. Thus there's no Elites. Then Brutes dropped. Or the Elites could've been recalled to the fleet and the Brutes sent down to occupy.

  • 06.07.2009 10:22 AM PDT

You need to pay attention more to the "weapon inconsitencies". There are no Cobras, Wolverines, Hawks, Vultures, Cyclopses, or Gremlins like there are in Halo Wars. So why can't you have AR's and no BR's?

  • 06.07.2009 10:27 AM PDT

Old School

Regret only took 15 ships with him, and only he himself retreated, the rest were destroyed. he took most of the elites with him and the rest were probably killed by the brutes. It would make sense that the brutes always knew they were going to get rid of the elites, just a matter of time when to go ahead would be proclaimed.

Think of it like what happened in star wars. Clones get activated to kill all the jedi when given the word. However the great schism does not happen until some time later because the elites that were betrayed on earth are isolated from reaching contact with any other of their kind.
So in a way the "great schism" already takes place 12 days before the actual Great schism. Hence why the heretic elites already started popping up.

  • 06.07.2009 10:28 AM PDT

That was the worst throw ever, of all time. -Red vs. Blue

u know this is between halo 2 & 3

  • 06.07.2009 10:29 AM PDT

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Posted by: GHSpartan1212
You need to pay attention more to the "weapon inconsitencies". There are no Cobras, Wolverines, Hawks, Vultures, Cyclopses, or Gremlins like there are in Halo Wars. So why can't you have AR's and no BR's?


Chief simply doesn't see any of them?
They are all destroyed or taken off use during the years?

Marines clearly used lots of BRs on Mombasa levels.

  • 06.07.2009 10:32 AM PDT

That was the worst throw ever, of all time. -Red vs. Blue

Posted by: DSR Chainz
Posted by: Dr Steve
Posted by: DSR Chainz
Posted by: Godavari
Posted by: DSR Chainz
Your gonna set there and tell me that all the elites left on that one ship????

Yep.


That makes less since than it raining cats and dogs.

That is plausible.

I don't know why, but once it did rain frogs in Mexico. probably got whipped up in a storm.


Wasn't that like New Mexico, and wasn't that because of a tornado?

it was Mexico and it was a storm and........wait what does this hav to do with this thread!?!?

  • 06.07.2009 10:37 AM PDT

Posted by: McKampela
Posted by: a squirreI
Posted by: DSR Chainz
The game begins 6 hours after Halo 2's Level 5 Metropolis.

Level 3 Metropolis. Your argument is now invalid.


It is the 5th level, because the cinematics are their own level.

Well technically, but it's not really a playable level. And the Armory part is essentially part of Cairo Station, it lasts about 5 minutes and has the same geometry.

[Edited on 06.07.2009 10:39 AM PDT]

  • 06.07.2009 10:38 AM PDT
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Posted by: Mizzou

But why Brutes?

In the wake of Regret's shameful retreat from New Mombasa, the Prophet of Truth continued his maneuvering - one eye always on his ultimate goal: his rightful and holy ascension. For Truth, his own personal passage was paramount. His Godhood would not be denied. Everything else was secondary.

And though Truth's duplicitous scheming doesn't come to full fruition until the Elite Honor Guard's failure to protect the Prophet of Regret affords him with the final leverage needed to appoint the Brutes to the lofty position, his plans were never made in haste. They were well laid. When the time came to return his attention to Earth, his expendable regiments needed to be led by Jiralhanae, not Sangheili.

Leaving the Elites to scour Earth in search of a Holy Forerunner relic, and ultimately to uncover the most precious and sacrosanct Forerunner artifact in existence - the very portal that opened upon the Ark itself - would have placed all Truth's aspirations upon the shoulders of a species he had already decided to cast aside, a species splintered by heresy and derision, even amongst their own ranks.

Truth's divisive mandate had been set in motion. The Elites had exhausted their usefulness to him, they would not be allowed to meddle in his affairs any longer, and he would not place his rightful transcendence into the hands of incompetents. His word was law.

So the Prophet of Truth deploys Brutes. And the Brutes were eager to prove that their loyalty and battle prowess had earned them a seat at the side of the Hierarchs, as the honored protectors of the sacred Covenant. Such blind faith and eagerness marked them as near perfect pawns for Truth to sacrifice.



Most of us have already read this, but for those who did not, here it is. It's a bit below the timeline.

  • 06.07.2009 10:45 AM PDT

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