Halo: Reach Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: Halo: Reach is not based on Halo: Fall of Reach
  • Subject: Halo: Reach is not based on Halo: Fall of Reach
Subject: Halo: Reach is not based on Halo: Fall of Reach

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Posted by: Mark II Soldier
There's a few holes in your theory. One poster had pointed out pretty well how the idea of a Spartan 3 would be unlikely at the time of the Battle of Reach.

However you do make a good point about the term "enemy". We forget about the Forerunner sentinels. The books clearly hinted at ONI or at least some form of human intelligence knew about Forerunner ruins etc before Autumn found the first Halo. So in keeping with your theory of Covenant being unable to jump into an atmosphere... perhaps it was sentinel type ships jumping in.

To further lend some weight to this lets not forget that the covenant was in fact looking for things on Reach. Perhaps something the Sentinels or Forerunner whatevers could have been interested in also.

Just a thought really...

This whole thread is based around the fact that I don't think it is based at the battle of Reach. You make some good points however. If the Halo universe wasn't so well documented, sentinels/forunner creations would have been my first choice.I just think that we would have heard about another attack on Reach before now.

  • 06.08.2009 7:23 AM PDT

But still this is very unlikely

"from the beginning, you now te end"

and

"Reach falls 2010"

If you ask me, this refers to the fall of Reach, so it's a prequel to Halo CE

  • 06.08.2009 7:24 AM PDT
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I'd have to agree with you Dark Moon.

There are more spartans so it must be a prequel because, didn't they all get dragged into onyx or something? And I'm guessing Sierra 259 is a Spartan II class 2 or something???

[Edited on 06.08.2009 7:26 AM PDT]

  • 06.08.2009 7:26 AM PDT

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Posted by: sammyb123
At this point it's necessary to point out that this trailer does not happen in real-time. It's clear that the trailer represents an extended period of time, say, over a period of hours.

The pings below the defense grid merely is referencing the Covenant dropships being sent down to the ground.

There are no slipspace ruptures under the orbital defense grid.

Also, your theory that this happens AFTER the fall of reach is also flawed. Why would, as seen in the trailer, the entirety of Reach still be intact? First strike clearly indicates that all but a very small area has been glassed.

It would not have been prior to the Fall of Reach, or it would have undoubtedly have been referenced in one of the books. Reach was the most important colony of the Inner Colonies - its importance was only second to Earth. A large battle taking place there prior to the fall of Reach would have been at least briefly referenced to in at least one of the books. It isn't.

The trailer is not in real time. It is a brief look at events which took place over an extended time frame. There is no abstract theory needed to explain the 'multiple pings below the defense grid'. It's simply the Covenant troops being sent to take out the reactors for the orbital guns.

Yes, I beleive that the video footage of the trailer does take place over a long period of time. However, does that conversation really sound like it's not in real time to you? They're clearly responding to one and other, with pauses for them collecting data etc, and there definately would have been more lines between "there might be some enemy ships here" and "holy crap they're everywhere." unless they were jumping right into Reach.

  • 06.08.2009 7:27 AM PDT

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Good theory but lets just waite to see what Bungie or Microsoft has to say.

  • 06.08.2009 7:30 AM PDT

Pings imply dropships or droppods if it were a slipspace rupture or atmopheric jump wouldn't they say "what the hell was that how in gods name did they "JUMP" or "rupture in atmoshere" in here" or something like that hmm?

  • 06.08.2009 7:32 AM PDT

"From the beggining, you know the end." Who knows the beggining? What end? Classic Bungie misdirection, or it could do two things at once: a prequel and a sequel, a game going through the events of Reach, First Strike, and Ghosts of Onyx from Fred's point of view before continuing the story.
There were only 150 Spartan II-s. That's why Sierra 259 is mysterious. Possibly a second generation of Spartan II-s, which would indicate a later date.


The Spartan-II program had a second group of candidates called Class II. Also Spartan IIIs were designated by a much more complex numbering system, so Sierra 259 has to be a Spartan-II probably Class II. Everyone needs to stop making outrageous guesses. Take it at face value.

  • 06.08.2009 7:37 AM PDT

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Posted by: DeathlyDarkness
Pings imply dropships or droppods if it were a slipspace rupture or atmopheric jump wouldn't they say "what the hell was that how in gods name did they "JUMP" or "rupture in atmoshere" in here" or something like that hmm?

They said that there was an in system slipspace rupture, which they, and the background, call impossible. I doubt their going to do an in-gravity jump and not bother to go under the orbital defences.

  • 06.08.2009 7:38 AM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

The main issue in your theory, REACH WAS NEVER REBUILT.

  • 06.08.2009 7:40 AM PDT

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Posted by: privet caboose
The main issue in your theory, REACH WAS NEVER REBUILT.

How do you know? There is no background about what happened after the human-covenant war. I doubt that the humans will just stay on Earth, and Reach was a major planet that they would probably want to rebuild.

  • 06.08.2009 7:42 AM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

First off, you don't "Rebuild" a planet, and they couldn't go back the actual planet reach because it was rendered unusable.

Second, you couldn't rebuild a planet in a year, which is the amount of time that was between the glassing of Reach and The final battle on Alpha Halo II.

Third, The humans were too busy on Earth to focus on ANYTHING else, at this point all they head left was Earth, they wouldn't waste money and men to go "Rebuild" a planet.

  • 06.08.2009 7:50 AM PDT
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Are you saying that the enemy is unknown to us, the player? Or it is unkown to the UNSC? While i highly, highly, highly doubt that they are introducing a new enemy into the world, it couldn't be unkown to the UNSC because of the line "There's no mistake. It's them." And I doubt that this game takes place after Halo 3 because of when they say You know the end, know play the beginning or however it went.

Great research man, I just dont agree with your conclusion.

Third, The humans were too busy on Earth to focus on ANYTHING else, at this point all they head left was Earth, they wouldn't waste money and men to go "Rebuild" a planet.

As for this statement, this is purely wild speculation that you couldn't talk of as fact. The UNSC and it's reach is absolutely huge. While the Covenant did whittle down Human numbers throughout the galaxy, you cannot say there were no more colonies. And even though they were attempting a genocide, the Covenant were not close to achieving it; albeit they were well on there way.

We can also assume that they did not retract every resource available to them to fight on Earth. That would just be ridiculous numbers wise. While I do not believe that they rebuilt Reach, I guess you could consider is plausible.

[Edited on 06.08.2009 7:59 AM PDT]

  • 06.08.2009 7:52 AM PDT

Giant Enemy Scarab: Attack its weakpoint for massive damage!

Posted by: blarghonk2
Posted by: sammyb123
At this point it's necessary to point out that this trailer does not happen in real-time. It's clear that the trailer represents an extended period of time, say, over a period of hours.

The pings below the defense grid merely is referencing the Covenant dropships being sent down to the ground.

There are no slipspace ruptures under the orbital defense grid.

Also, your theory that this happens AFTER the fall of reach is also flawed. Why would, as seen in the trailer, the entirety of Reach still be intact? First strike clearly indicates that all but a very small area has been glassed.

It would not have been prior to the Fall of Reach, or it would have undoubtedly have been referenced in one of the books. Reach was the most important colony of the Inner Colonies - its importance was only second to Earth. A large battle taking place there prior to the fall of Reach would have been at least briefly referenced to in at least one of the books. It isn't.

The trailer is not in real time. It is a brief look at events which took place over an extended time frame. There is no abstract theory needed to explain the 'multiple pings below the defense grid'. It's simply the Covenant troops being sent to take out the reactors for the orbital guns.

Yes, I beleive that the video footage of the trailer does take place over a long period of time. However, does that conversation really sound like it's not in real time to you? They're clearly responding to one and other, with pauses for them collecting data etc, and there definately would have been more lines between "there might be some enemy ships here" and "holy crap they're everywhere." unless they were jumping right into Reach.

Of course they are going to have snippets of conversations put in real time. The other options are 1) Making the voices like baby chipmunks who inhaled 50 balloons at once, or 2) Making a trailer that doesn't make any sense whatsoever to the prospective customer, by including completely random sound clips which don't interact with each other.

Of course Bungie would let them reply to each other. Otherwise the entire trailer would be incoherent and lacking any real sense of what is going on.

This trailer is pretty much a small montage of audio clips from what happened from the start of the Battle of Reach to midway through it. It is not in real time. Just because they are responding to each other, it doesn't mean that there was some unknown battle which nobody has heard of being at the center of Halo: Reach.

Think about it. The whole game's market pitch was that it involved the fall of Reach. Why would Bungie completely forsake one of the biggest battles in the Halo universe to replace it with some other fight that nobody's heard of? (this includes characters such as Captain Keyes, Master Chief, etc.)
The other possibility is Bungie just using creative techniques to show what is happening over a longer time frame than 90 seconds.

Which do you think is more likely?

[Edited on 06.08.2009 7:55 AM PDT]

  • 06.08.2009 7:52 AM PDT

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Posted by: blarghonk2
Posted by: privet caboose
The main issue in your theory, REACH WAS NEVER REBUILT.

How do you know? There is no background about what happened after the human-covenant war. I doubt that the humans will just stay on Earth, and Reach was a major planet that they would probably want to rebuild.

Glassing destroys a planet's atmosphere.....

And it's a prequel....

  • 06.08.2009 7:54 AM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Posted by: mike120593
Posted by: blarghonk2
Posted by: privet caboose
The main issue in your theory, REACH WAS NEVER REBUILT.

How do you know? There is no background about what happened after the human-covenant war. I doubt that the humans will just stay on Earth, and Reach was a major planet that they would probably want to rebuild.

Glassing destroys a planet's atmosphere.....

And it's a prequel....


Right, and it's confirmed to be a prequel. So, it does follow the books.

  • 06.08.2009 7:57 AM PDT

Giant Enemy Scarab: Attack its weakpoint for massive damage!

Posted by: mike120593
Posted by: blarghonk2
Posted by: privet caboose
The main issue in your theory, REACH WAS NEVER REBUILT.

How do you know? There is no background about what happened after the human-covenant war. I doubt that the humans will just stay on Earth, and Reach was a major planet that they would probably want to rebuild.

Glassing destroys a planet's atmosphere.....

And it's a prequel....

Exactly. Firstly, it would be completely impossible to rebuild Reach, as terraforming a planet requires pretty good conditions to start with. I'd quote from whichever book that is from, most likely Fall of Reach, but I forget.

And 'From the beginning - You know the end' would suggest that it is a prequel, right?

  • 06.08.2009 7:57 AM PDT
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And 'From the beginning - You know the end' would suggest that it is a prequel, right?

That's what I'm saying.... This statement here ends this argument altogether.

[Edited on 06.08.2009 8:08 AM PDT]

  • 06.08.2009 8:01 AM PDT

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Posted by: privet caboose
First off, you don't "Rebuild" a planet, and they couldn't go back the actual planet reach because it was rendered unusable.

Second, you couldn't rebuild a planet in a year, which is the amount of time that was between the glassing of Reach and The final battle on Alpha Halo II.

Third, The humans were too busy on Earth to focus on ANYTHING else, at this point all they head left was Earth, they wouldn't waste money and men to go "Rebuild" a planet.

First, you can rebuild a planet. Look at the end of the OP for information about Terraforming.

Second and third, I'm saying this could be a long time after Halo 3. Humanity could have been beginning to rebuild it's empire, not just it's homeworld.


[Edited on 06.08.2009 8:03 AM PDT]

  • 06.08.2009 8:02 AM PDT

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Posted by: sammyb123
Posted by: mike120593
Posted by: blarghonk2
Posted by: privet caboose
The main issue in your theory, REACH WAS NEVER REBUILT.

How do you know? There is no background about what happened after the human-covenant war. I doubt that the humans will just stay on Earth, and Reach was a major planet that they would probably want to rebuild.

Glassing destroys a planet's atmosphere.....

And it's a prequel....

Exactly. Firstly, it would be completely impossible to rebuild Reach, as terraforming a planet requires pretty good conditions to start with. I'd quote from whichever book that is from, most likely Fall of Reach, but I forget.

And 'From the beginning - You know the end' would suggest that it is a prequel, right?

That and the fact that it has been announced that it's a prequel....

  • 06.08.2009 8:02 AM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

IT IS CONFIRMED TO BE A PREQUEL.

  • 06.08.2009 8:02 AM PDT

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Posted by: privet caboose
IT IS CONFIRMED TO BE A PREQUEL.

You show me where BUNGIE says that, and I'll agree with you.

  • 06.08.2009 8:04 AM PDT
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Don't you dare even try it to be honest.

Then again they also said "We have SPARTAN'S on the ground sir, we're not going anywhere."

As of 2552+ Spartan 117 John was the last remaining Spartan capable of using slipspace to travel to another galaxy as the other Spartan's that were actually alive were trapped in the shield world known as Onyx, they wouldn't have said Spartan's if Chief is the only one capable of getting to reach let alone inside it's gravitational fields.

Sorry but your theory is wrong and also 2552+ Reach was destroyed, and in your theory your implying that Halo: Reach happened at a later time than Halo 1.....

  • 06.08.2009 8:04 AM PDT

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Posted by: Morg211
Then again they also said "We have SPARTAN'S on the ground sir, we're not going anywhere."

As of 2552+ Spartan 117 John was the last remaining Spartan capable of using slipspace to travel to another galaxy as the other Spartan's that were actually alive were trapped in the shield world known as Onyx, they wouldn't have said Spartan's if Chief is the only one capable of getting to reach let alone inside it's gravitational fields.

Sorry but your theory is wrong and also 2552+ Reach was destroyed, and in your theory your implying that Halo: Reach happened at a later time than Halo 1.....

Your missing a lot of points. It is possible to rebuild Reach, and the Spartans on the ground could have been spartan III-s, or newly trained Spartan II-s.

  • 06.08.2009 8:07 AM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/h/haloreach/

MIcrosoft controls The Halo series now, Anything on Xbox.com would be correct.

You lose.

  • 06.08.2009 8:09 AM PDT

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Posted by: privet caboose
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/h/haloreach/

MIcrosoft controls The Halo series now, Anything on Xbox.com would be correct.

You lose.

This was a competition?
And as I pointed out in an earlier post, this game could be bothe prequel and sequel; a game that follows Fred or another Spartan-IIs events through the events in the books and back to Reach in later years.
I'm not believing anything until the game is out, or we have as much info on it as we do about ODST at the moment.

  • 06.08.2009 8:13 AM PDT