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Subject: Proof of Ragdoll physics...
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ok i have posted this like a thosand times so i am just gonna make a topic out of it so i dont have to post it again, thanx :)

Posted by: fludblud
well too bad. you have seen the demos and trailers for halo 2 (i hope) and the death sequences ARE THE SAME as halo and since the game has gone BETA halo 2 WILL NOT HAVE FULL RAGDOLL PHYSICS whether you like it or not :P

do some research and THINK before starting an utterly FUTILE and POINTLESS topic

do i make myself clear?


ok first off i would like to point out fludbud that you dont kno everything. i kno this may come as a surprise but you dont work at bungie, so stop acting like you do. you will soon find out you are the one who did not do the research. anyway, on to what i came here about...

in the weekly update it says...

Jaime mocked up a fake multiplayer game with some Master Chief AI that just stands around and lets you shoot it – so I spent about half an hour exploring some new physics in-depth.

this proves there are ragdoll physics because the reason they had the AI stand around was to test how it reacted to being blown up by rockets, run over by vehicles, shot in various parts. ya kno, different ways to kill them, and see how they reacted and if it was life like.

the reason they did not have it at E3 '04 was because if was not finished. in the update it says they are still testing it to see if it is true to the world. they just threw in the physics to be a "filler" so to speak because they had to have some animation of people dying. just like the HUD. that will not be the final HUD that you saw at E3 '04, it was a "filler" because they need to have something there.

also look at how the Elite dies when he is killed by the plasma sword. thats perty close if it isnt ragdoll. look at it closely next time

and to comment on the...

We just got CENSORED working and it's da bomb! No wait, that's a different game. But this game is going to be damn damn fun, especially for people with just a single box and no Xbox Live, but a bus load of controllers and lots of willing, friendly, yet competitive friends. And to think, we almost cut it!

personally, i think this means that there will be a new survival mode which pits 4 player co-operatively trying to survive after wave and wave of covies on multiplayer maps. he says you only need 4 controllers and its an awsome new mode thats "damn damn" fun. anyone else got any thoughts?

  • 07.17.2004 4:29 AM PDT
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Hahaha you post this are ready in DRWILL topic.
But both are you are right.

  • 07.17.2004 4:37 AM PDT
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errrm, how does this prove ragdoll? all this proves is that you can change the level of ai! Ya retard
Anyway, ragdoll physics can look a bit crap, i mean if youve just run somone through with the plamsa sword you wont want them to just srop, i'd want them to grab their chest scream in pain and sink to the floor and then have ragdoll come into it. not just drop. but of course tis is bungie, so it would be perfect,

  • 07.17.2004 4:39 AM PDT
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yea well i kno this topic about ragdoll physic is gonna come up 50 more times and i really dont feel like typin this 50 more times so i just made a topic out of it. :)

  • 07.17.2004 4:40 AM PDT
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Your a dumb ass too...

  • 07.17.2004 4:40 AM PDT
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Posted by: BlackMagic2638
yea well i kno this topic about ragdoll physic is gonna come up 50 more times and i really dont feel like typin this 50 more times so i just made a topic out of it. :)


Lol I would do the same, people just don't see "proof" if it just jumps at there face.

  • 07.17.2004 4:42 AM PDT
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Posted by: elmicker
errrm, how does this prove ragdoll? all this proves is that you can change the level of ai! Ya retard
Anyway, ragdoll physics can look a bit crap, i mean if youve just run somone through with the plamsa sword you wont want them to just srop, i'd want them to grab their chest scream in pain and sink to the floor and then have ragdoll come into it. not just drop. but of course tis is bungie, so it would be perfect,


wat the hell are you talking about? im talking about how the AI looks when it gets blow up and dies and stuff, not how you fight against them. if u hit someone wit the plasma sword that hard (if you read the books you would kno MC's strength is incredible) he would go flying. not stand there a go "oh it hurts, oh baby, owwie" wit blood running out his chest. necxt time think about ur response before you post it, please, for the sake of all things holy.

  • 07.17.2004 4:43 AM PDT
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and if oyu read the books youll also know the plasma sword has no solid mass, thereofre it CANNOT PUSH PEOPLE.

ya retard.

have you seen the examples of ragdoll from Rainbow six? you end up with limboed characters all over, i prefer my swimming grunts stuck on a left over pixel.

  • 07.17.2004 4:46 AM PDT
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ok but have you seen how hard he pushes the sword thro him. if it is not a solid mass the the sword would go rite through him, and his fist would hit the elite, sending him flying.

ya retard

rainbow six 3 sux, and yes i have it so i kno from expirence.

  • 07.17.2004 4:49 AM PDT
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if rainbow six 3 sux why do you want to pull halo 2 down to its level with its ragdolls?

  • 07.17.2004 5:25 AM PDT
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im not, im saying randow six 3 tried to do ragdoll physics and failed miserable. look at rainbow six 3's ragdoll and look at half life 2 ragdoll. big big diffence. if halo 2 can pull it off like half life 2 and not like rainbow six then it will be absolutly amazing, which is what i think they are going to do because of what the bungie update says.

  • 07.17.2004 5:35 AM PDT
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BlackMagic just stop, these kids are't up to are level. Let them "think".

  • 07.17.2004 5:38 AM PDT
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Think about what other physics would you test with a non-moving MC?

Halo 1 use death animations,and also the Halo 2 E3' 04-03 demos.
So how can you test physics when it is animtions? You can't so there IS a new physics engine in Halo 2 that was not done when the E3 demos where. So think about testing? Testing? Why test a engine thats already done?.

Plus a sreecnshot shows Ragdoll engine, the P Sowrd kinda showed alittle Ragdoll in the E3 ' 04.

So get use to it!!!

  • 07.17.2004 6:24 AM PDT
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thank you very much. im glad to see other smart people out in forums :)

  • 07.17.2004 9:00 AM PDT
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how the animation for the lunge attack makes the person go flying when they are hit i dont think bungie went by the plasma sword mass thing.....

  • 07.17.2004 9:08 AM PDT
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All content is subject to change for the November 9th release.

  • 07.17.2004 9:10 AM PDT
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Posted by: Blurr
how the animation for the lunge attack makes the person go flying when they are hit i dont think bungie went by the plasma sword mass thing.....


ok but the update still proves the ragdoll physics will be in it.

why would they finish the physics to the game 3 months before it comes out and then suddenly change it. ragdoll is the best kind of physics out there, y would they downgrade there system after they finished it at the last minute?

  • 07.17.2004 9:42 AM PDT
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they said that there would be a new physics engine in the game to cause sturr to take damage when it his other stuff, depending on how fast they move, eg you in a worthog, hitting the ground level, but the worthog blows up and kills you.
that new physics engine is most likely what they are talking about

[Edited on 7/17/2004 11:14:30 AM]

  • 07.17.2004 11:13 AM PDT
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My Initial Argument

I'm not entirely sure why I continually drag myself into this Ragdoll debate; nevertheless I will plead my case once more. I personally do not believe the Ragdoll engine will be implemented in Halo 2. Reason being, Halo's death-physics (and physics in general for that matter) were unique, effective and light-years ahead of any other developer’s efforts. While I don't necessarily have anything against the use of the Ragdoll engine (though it has been around for quite a while with little or no improvements) it's quite simply not Halo. If previous efforts from Bungie are any indication, they will continue to push the envelope and innovate rather than fall into the drab, monotonous norm that is Ragdoll.

Rainbow Six 3 and Ragdoll: eh, ok.

Halo 2 and Ragdoll: I sincerely hope not.

That being said, my guess is as good as yours.


Extended

Let's not beat around the bush here.

The argument posed by the two of you, is quite possibly the weakest argument I've witnessed during my short time at the Bungie forums. The basis of your argument is essentially, a physics engine was being tested, it's therefore Ragdoll.

I fail to see why you select few actually encourage the use of an overly-hyped and overly-abused engine. Look outside the box - can either of you fathom the possibility of there being an engine better than Ragdoll? If DRWILL is any indication, no.

The opposite of courage is not cowardice; it's conformity. Even a dead fish can go with the flow.



[Edited on 7/17/2004 12:34:51 PM]

  • 07.17.2004 12:31 PM PDT
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actually frankie said somthing about a ragdoll effect when he got killed by a hog in an update
dont ask for a link cause im not goin looking for it it said somthing like this

'then the hog hit me with its tail around and threw me into a wall after i died'

or like it crushed him against a wall , i just remember reading someone did this to another

  • 07.17.2004 1:06 PM PDT
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No, ragdoll physics are NOT confirmed...

  • 07.17.2004 1:10 PM PDT
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For one Halo did't use Death Physics, it was Death Animation.
Since Halo did't have death physics, and you're saying that Halo death engine was unique,(which was not physics) that it should/will be in Halo 2. If the Death animation in Halo are going to be in Halo 2.Then why would you test phyiscs with a MC? What other physics can be tested with a non-moving MC A.I.?

There's a pic with a jackel that is taking forum of the force the grenade made.
Bungie some type of engine for the movement of models (forgot the name of it) which helps the use of ragdoll.
Some of the physics codes were on in the e3 demo. EX: When thevP sword hit the Elite.
All of this and maybe more "proof" of ragdoll in Halo 2.

[Edited on 7/19/2004 12:09:32 AM]

  • 07.19.2004 12:08 AM PDT
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Posted by: REAL C0MBAT 4 U
For one Halo did't use Death Physics, it was Death Animation.
Since Halo did't have death physics, and you're saying that Halo death engine was ,(which was not physics) that it should/will be in Halo 2. If the Death animation in Halo are going to be in Halo 2.Then why would you test phyiscs with a MC? What other physics can be tested with a non-moving MC A.I.?

There's a pic with a jackel that is taking forum of the force the grenade made.
Bungie some type of engine for the movement of models (forgot the name of it) which helps the use of ragdoll.
Some of the physics codes were on in the e3 demo. EX: When thevP sword hit the Elite.
All of this and maybe more "proof" of ragdoll in Halo 2.


Erm, if you're trying to say that physics didn't apply nor affect death sequences - you're sorely mistaken. The death animations (which I assumed everyone already knew of and thus made no point of addressing) are also dependent and relative to a constant physics engine. You seem to be under the impression that the game's physics engine intermittently goes in and out of use, when in actuality it is a constant, dictating and affecting everything from jumping to dying.

Your wording and grammar becomes rather jumbled and disorganized, but if I'm interpreting it correctly, you obviously didn't understand what I had initially suggested. I don't think that Halo 2 should use Halo's physics nor death animations, I'm simply saying that if Halo is any indication, Bungie will continue to take things to the next step, instead of settling for what's trendy . I'm not saying that Bungie won't try to make things as realistic/advanced/enjoyable as possible (and the current Ragdoll is indisputably a step in the right direction) but instead, that they will at least improve upon the system, if not entirely redefine the realm of physics found in video games.

The information on the engine which you're referring to (I'm assuming) detailed, essentially, that there would be a structural/skeletal system beneath each model, allowing for the most realistic death effect possible - in which case it is not a simple Ragdoll effect, but something else - something new and innovative. Ragdoll is little more than a bobble-head with four dangling limbs.

  • 07.19.2004 12:54 AM PDT
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Ok the battle is over.(you win) But the war have yet to come : )
(I can't wait to see what Realcombat 4 u haves to say)

[Edited on 7/19/2004 1:00:03 AM]

  • 07.19.2004 12:58 AM PDT
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I hope this time around (if there is a real physics engine) that when you melee someone they fall AWAY from you(therefore in the direction you melee'd them). In halo it got a little annying when you punched an elite in the face and they fell forward towards you. the grunts/jackals had it right with the directional deaths in halo, but not anything bigger than them.

  • 07.19.2004 12:59 AM PDT

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