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  • Subject: Guide to Canon in the Halo Universe
Subject: Guide to Canon in the Halo Universe

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are the dates in the new halo enclyopidia canon? there has been conterversy with it.

  • 10.22.2009 12:12 PM PDT

Gotta make this hot topic...

  • 10.23.2009 8:02 PM PDT

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Posted by: JABBERWOCK xeno
are the dates in the new halo enclyopidia canon? there has been conterversy with it.


I'm not sure. I haven't yet looked into what the general stance is on the Encyclopaedia. I'd imagine it is mostly considered canon but it is bound to have several mistakes in dates and names due to its nature and size.

I'll grab a copy when I can.

  • 10.28.2009 4:27 AM PDT

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.

once aggain thanks for this!

  • 10.28.2009 6:00 PM PDT

YOU'RE STILL ALIVE?!?

You should mention that Halo Legends is cannon (except for the episode "Odd One Out").

  • 11.02.2009 4:19 PM PDT

Posted by: RVB Fan 123
You should mention that Halo Legends is cannon (except for the episode "Odd One Out").


*takes shotgun and puts the muzzle under my chin*

I can't live knowing THAT is canon....

  • 11.02.2009 4:34 PM PDT

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Posted by: RVB Fan 123
You should mention that Halo Legends is cannon (except for the episode "Odd One Out").


I'm going to wait until content is officially released before adding it to the list for the most part. Seems to make more sense to me to do it that way. But once Halo: Legends is released I'll update it's status.

  • 11.06.2009 3:39 PM PDT

Is the artwork in the Halo calenders canon? The reason was that on September (picture: Eddie Smith-Awakening) a spartan is twice the size of a human and I wondered if it was canon.

  • 11.12.2009 9:26 AM PDT

Got Milk?

amazing thread great job!!!(u have restored my faith in some of these forums:D)
this should be a sticky!!
"thread saved"

  • 11.13.2009 4:05 AM PDT

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Posted by: Dj Liamo
amazing thread great job!!!(u have restored my faith in some of these forums:D)
this should be a sticky!!
"thread saved"


Thanks for the gratitude. Glad to see people are still finding it useful.

Posted by: General E Kool00
Is the artwork in the Halo calenders canon? The reason was that on September (picture: Eddie Smith-Awakening) a spartan is twice the size of a human and I wondered if it was canon.


The guide explains this several times. If you have two conflicting sources giving different information then follow some simple rules. For the most part games will always outrank all other sources, then things like books and graphic novels. Licensed products, such as calendars always rank the lowest. So in this case the novels and games tend to put Spartans at around 6-7 feet, so assume the calendar is not canonical.

  • 11.14.2009 11:46 AM PDT

awesome!

Thanks for the feedback I thought you had abandoned the thread.

Great job BTW! :D

[Edited on 11.14.2009 2:48 PM PST]

  • 11.14.2009 2:48 PM PDT
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Saw this thread for the first time(awesome work by the way) and noticed all the debate about I LLove Bees. If it helps there is a mention in the Halo Encyclopedia (I BELIVE it's under the human history part) that mentions something about an AI ending up back in the year 2004 due to a temporal anomoly or some such business and even mention SPDR from the ILB ARG. It mentions that this temporal anomaly helped to forward the research into AI's (wish I had the encyclopedia on me now to get an exact quote, I'll try when I get it back), which probably makes some kind of crazy space-time paradox, but I'm cool with that. Makes things interesting. So based on that encyclopedia entry, it looks like they are at least TRYING to make ILB cannonical in some way. It doesn't seem to really CONTRADICT anything in any major way, so I don't see why not.


Edit: Okay, here it is. On Page 42 of the Halo Encyclopedia in the first segment entitled Earth's Space Age, the last paragraph of that section reads:

"Over the next century Human technology increased by leaps and bounds. The creation of the internet and an ever-increasing sophistication in networked intelligences and robotics led to the first basic Artificial Intelligences (AIs). These intelligences paled in comparison to the 26th centuries dumbest AIs, but they were advanced through technologies gleened from the System Peril Distributed Reflex (SPDR) program. This program was transported back in time to 2004 CE during a temporal rift triggered by a Forerunner artifact found in deep space by a UNSC starship in the 2500's."

Anyone who participated in the I Love Bees game or read into any detail about it should recognize the SPDR program.

[Edited on 11.25.2009 9:06 PM PST]

  • 11.25.2009 8:20 PM PDT

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Posted by: Fearing
Saw this thread for the first time(awesome work by the way) and noticed all the debate about I LLove Bees. If it helps there is a mention in the Halo Encyclopedia (I BELIVE it's under the human history part) that mentions something about an AI ending up back in the year 2004 due to a temporal anomoly or some such business and even mention SPDR from the ILB ARG. It mentions that this temporal anomaly helped to forward the research into AI's (wish I had the encyclopedia on me now to get an exact quote, I'll try when I get it back), which probably makes some kind of crazy space-time paradox, but I'm cool with that. Makes things interesting. So based on that encyclopedia entry, it looks like they are at least TRYING to make ILB cannonical in some way. It doesn't seem to really CONTRADICT anything in any major way, so I don't see why not.


Edit: Okay, here it is. On Page 42 of the Halo Encyclopedia in the first segment entitled Earth's Space Age, the last paragraph of that section reads:

"Over the next century Human technology increased by leaps and bounds. The creation of the internet and an ever-increasing sophistication in networked intelligences and robotics led to the first basic Artificial Intelligences (AIs). These intelligences paled in comparison to the 26th centuries dumbest AIs, but they were advanced through technologies gleened from the System Peril Distributed Reflex (SPDR) program. This program was transported back in time to 2004 CE during a temporal rift triggered by a Forerunner artifact found in deep space by a UNSC starship in the 2500's."

Anyone who participated in the I Love Bees game or read into any detail about it should recognize the SPDR program.


I've resisted labelling it as definite canon simply because of what Bungie employees has said in the past, especially Staten. But at this moment it appears to have been incorporated into the universe officially by 343 Studios.

I'm still sceptical about labelling it as canon but that is probably just personal bias. As you rightly pointed out it doesn't seem to contradict anything in other published work. However even if labelled canon it would definitely be of the lowest kind, as it is not a game or a novel/book but work from a third party.

I'm going to update this thread soon anyway to account for things like Halo: Legends and the encyclopaedia so I might revise the position of I LOVE BEES then.

Thanks for your input. If you have any further points or any questions feel free to post them and I'll get back to them as soon as I can.



Just a quick reminder of the levels of canon for everyone:

- The games rank first
- Published materials (books, comics, soundtrack liner notes etc.) rank second
- Marketing and PR materials third




Actually after thinking about it I think I'm going to revise this thread and instead of stating what is and isn't canon, simply order everything in terms of canon. So all the items in the guide can go into three separate headings, basically the same as what is above, Games, Published Materials and Marketing and PR Materials. I think that will serve better and make everything more obvious.

Any objections?

[EDIT]: Okay I think I am still going to keep the headings and order everything so it is more clear cut. So that if someone comes to the thread they can see definitively that item A outranks item b. But I am still going to argue that I LOVE BEES and the Cortana Letters along with IRIS are not canon. I was planning on saying everything is canonical to a certain extent but this way seems best to me. But I would like some opinions before I start working on it. Any ideas people?

[Edited on 12.06.2009 2:05 PM PST]

  • 12.06.2009 1:45 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

How do the games come before the books?

it should be the other way around bcuase if there was flood on reach in game then everything in the book would be screwed.

  • 12.06.2009 4:26 PM PDT

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Hot topic please?

  • 12.06.2009 4:39 PM PDT

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Posted by: grey101
How do the games come before the books?

it should be the other way around bcuase if there was flood on reach in game then everything in the book would be screwed.


The games come first because they are the primary source for Halo. Everything else is secondary. Think of it like the Star Wars universe. The movies are always ranked first. If they contradict anything in Star Wars games or books then the information from the movie is considered canon.

It's exactly the same with the Halo universe. The games always rank first. This is because Bungie directly make the games (or 343 Studios) and have full control over what goes in. Since they are the creators of Halo it makes sense that their stuff is the main source. Everything else is done by outside parties, such as the books. They are written by Authors who are (mostly) not assosciated with Bungie Studios.

This comes directly from Joseph Staten:


- The games rank first
- Published materials (books, comics, soundtrack liner notes etc.) rank second
- Marketing and PR materials third


Check the first page for the source.

[Edited on 12.07.2009 1:17 AM PST]

  • 12.07.2009 1:16 AM PDT
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That makes sense. The reordering seems like a good idea. If you are interested in more material to add, the McFarlane Halo figures actually have SOME different fiction with some of them. Mainly 2 figures I've noticed, the SDCC exclusive HellSpartan (EVA Spartan painted to have Spawn colored armor) and the Halo Points Exclusive Gold Master Chief. They have back stories on the back of the packaging that isn't in any of the other cannon: the gold figure being a prototype design for a monument to Spartan 117 and I forget the backstory off hand for the HellSpartan. While I'm sure the fiction on the back was included just to have something fun there on the back of the package for specially painted figures, and probably holds less cannonical sway than the multiplayer armor perms back story or even the Halo TV commercicals, it is still there, and I'd guess would probably have to have been approved by Bungie(especially with thier logo on the packaging). I dunno, just thought I'd bring it up as something that could be added if you were looking to get everything there and rank it based on cannonical importance. I'm not sure if this would count as published materials, or PR Marketing.

If this is something that at all interests you for inclusion and you need the text off the packaging, I have the figures and can post it for you if you'd like.


Side note:
I can see why you'd choose to not include the Cortana Letters as canon (although with the way Halo 3 played out and how vague the letters kind of were, a person could easily interpret them in some way that fits into canon, but not really neccessary for sure), and maybe I Love Bees (but it was a fun game and a cool story that doesn't really contradict anything, nor place any real restrictions on the ability to expand any other part of the fiction, so I don't see why NOT to include it), but I'd have to argue IRIS as that feeds directly into the Terminals in Halo 3. I'd have a hard time NOT placing that into cannon as it along with the terminals, gave some very important info about the Forerunner and the Flood. Ascendant Justice even uses it in thier compilation and explanation of the story of the Terminals (which if you haven't read you're crazy and should go read it now!). I dunno, that's just my two cents on that subject since you asked for opinions/objections.

[Edited on 12.10.2009 1:15 PM PST]

  • 12.10.2009 1:05 PM PDT

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Posted by: Fearing
That makes sense. The reordering seems like a good idea. If you are interested in more material to add, the McFarlane Halo figures actually have SOME different fiction with some of them. Mainly 2 figures I've noticed, the SDCC exclusive HellSpartan (EVA Spartan painted to have Spawn colored armor) and the Halo Points Exclusive Gold Master Chief. They have back stories on the back of the packaging that isn't in any of the other cannon: the gold figure being a prototype design for a monument to Spartan 117 and I forget the backstory off hand for the HellSpartan. While I'm sure the fiction on the back was included just to have something fun there on the back of the package for specially painted figures, and probably holds less cannonical sway than the multiplayer armor perms back story or even the Halo TV commercicals, it is still there, and I'd guess would probably have to have been approved by Bungie(especially with thier logo on the packaging). I dunno, just thought I'd bring it up as something that could be added if you were looking to get everything there and rank it based on cannonical importance. I'm not sure if this would count as published materials, or PR Marketing.


Go ahead and post or PM the figures from the action figures. I didn't really think about putting them into the guide but it makes to get as many as possible.

[Edited on 12.11.2009 1:32 PM PST]

  • 12.11.2009 1:31 PM PDT
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Okay here's the text from the backs of the figures, first the Hellspartan.

SPARTAN SOLDIER [EVA-"HELLSPARTAN"]
UNSC CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTATION
CLASSIFICATION: TOP SECRET
FILE NO.:II (Armore Livery Dazzle Camo)
SUBJECT: S - II - Field Variant.
CURRENT STATUS: FAILED [ON HOLD]
PROJECT DETAILS
AUTHOR: CLASSIFIED [NEED TO KNOW]
PROJECT OVERVIEW: To bolster both our offensive/defensive capabilities in the escalating conflict with the armies of Covenant, the United Nations Space Command [UNSC] commisioned wide ranging programs of research into the creation of more Spartan-grade soldiers.
RECRUITMENT: Limited. Five individuals, handpicked from the ranks of the classified Spartan program. [NAMES AND SERVICES RECORDS CLASSIFIED].
RESULTS: Unacceptable. Only two of the five recruits survived past the second month of "in-suit" training.
MISSION FILES: Further information and any mission-specific files for the Spartan II program are CLASSIFIED [NEED TO KNOW].

ARMOR SPECIFICATIONS
ARMOR TYPE: EXTRA VEHICULAR ACTIVITY [EVA]
AUGMENTATIONS: Enhanced visual interface - full-spectrum range of vision [including infrared, low/no light amplification, heave light/flash suppresion], advanced targeting matrix [including sight-linkin and multi-target tracking systems], custom armor plating and dazzle camo livery. [MORE]

MISC. NOTES
ENTRY.1.0: ODSTs and Marines have begun referring to this unit as "Hellspartans," in reference to both their unusual choice of camouflage and their general gung ho attitude. [MORE]

Okay, now here the GOLD MC figure.


MASTER CHIEF
Petty Officer, John-117

.: OFFICIAL PRESS RELEASE:.

MEMORANDUM: Fromt the office of the Mayor of New Mombasa

RE: Creation of Master Chief Petty Officer John-117 statue

NOTE[S]: For immediate release

SUBJECT: UNSC Memorial (addition to)

NOTES[S]: Amendment to Section 7-G.2 of previously posted document: "Project: Rebirth(The Rebuilding and Revitalization of New Mombasa in the Post War World)"

AMENDMENT: 7-G.2; in addition to the items listed and described in points 7-A.1-7-G.2.4 of document "Project: Rebirth (The Rebuilding and Revitalization of New Mombasa in the Post-War World)," as they pertain to the development and creation of the United Nations Space Command Memorial Park/Monument, there is to be a life-sized (2.13m/7ft) statue of one; Master Chief Petty Officer John-117, erected at the center of the Memorial garden... [MORE]

NOTE[S]: Proposed materials: Recycled and sterilized metals from two downed D77-TC Pelican Dropships recovered from wreckage from the conflict at Voi. Gold ore donated by members of the East African Protectorate (EAP)... [MORE] Concept: Refer to attatched sample for a three-dimensional demonstration of the proposed concept (final posing to be determined). Artist: As yet unassigned. Currently accepting bids.

STATEMENT: Master Chief Petty Officer John-117 is a hero of course, but he is also symbolic of the many brave men and women who gave their lives in the war against the Covenant - defending not only our once-fair city, but the entirety of human civilization here on Earth and out among the stars. It is with great sadness and heavy hearts that we proudly announce a new addition to the planned memorial park/monument to be constructed on the site of theold city hall thoroughfare.

As we learned from the last week, Master Chief Petty Officer John-117, the last of the Spartan II soldiers, was lost in a final heroic act...[MORE]



So yeah, that's those. A fun little bit of fiction there, nothing major, but a previously unmentioned Project Rebirth for New Mombasa and the whole Hellspartan thing, which could either come into play in cannon later, or just be completely ignored, but it's there, so do with it what you will.

[Edited on 12.14.2009 12:10 PM PST]

  • 12.14.2009 12:09 PM PDT
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On the topic of canon:

Halo: Reach is Canon

It's a response to all the people who keep saying that Halo: Reach is breaking canon.

[Edited on 01.15.2010 3:33 PM PST]

  • 01.15.2010 3:32 PM PDT
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Posted by: Maimum FEAR
ILOVEBEES.com is not canon (disputable)

HaloStoryPage: If you were to define what is and isn't Halo story canon, would the I Love Bees stuff make the cut?

Joseph Staten:The Bees would not make the cut.

Those guys basically did their own thing with very little Bungie input (save for massaging and approving the initial plot-treatment). While we helped define the boundaries of their fiction, we let them do what they thought best. And I think the game turned out great.

Source: Halo Story Page


Quite disputable; as of the Halo Encyclopedia, the events, people, and places within ILB are canon.



Posted by: Maimum FEAR
Spartan 458 - Nicole (from Dead or Alive 4) is not canon

Here's a list of things Nicole, Spartan 458 is NOT .

* She's not a character who's ever been described in other Halo fiction.
* She's not a character from our next project.
* She's not one of the Spartans from Fall of Reach.
* She's not a character from the Halo movie.
* She's not returning my calls. I blame time bubbles.

In short, she's a fictional means to an end that we gave careful thought, but with a jaunty tip of our hat and a wry wink in the general direction of levity.


Source: Bungie Weekly Update

In short Nicole was created simply to conveniently allow a Spartan II to appear in the 21st century. She is not a part of the Halo universe, but actually the Dead or Alive universe.


Also highly debatable. Nicole was directly connected to the ILB story. Also, in your "evidence", it does not say at all or in the slightest that she is not canon. That "evidence" could work for so many Spartans

1.) Black Team/Omega Team/Nobel Team is not a character who's ever been described in other Halo fiction.

2.) Black Team/Omega Team is not a character from our (bungie's) next project.

3.) Black Team's/Omega Team's/Nobel Team's not one of the Spartans from Fall of Reach.

4.) Black Team's/Omega Team's/Nobel Team's not a character from the Halo movie (either canceled movie or Halo: Legends).

Number 1 itself actually reveals that she is canon, for she is not part of other Halo fiction. For her to not be part of other halo fiction, that would mean she is halo fiction. If she is simply not canon, why not have this one simply say "She is not a character who's ever been described in Halo Fiction"? The answer is because her story is Halo Fiction and thus canon.



Posted by: Maimum FEAR
IRIS and other Halo 3 PR and Marketing

Avateur Considering what you stated about the two-part episode covering the Forerunner's first encounter with the Flood all the way through Halo 3, will the Alternate Reality Games ilovebees and Iris be taken into consideration at all?
Frankie: Absolutely

Sources: Comic-Con Halo Panel - HBO Forums | Gamespot


This shows Frankie saying that ILB will be taken into consideration, why would that be if it was not canon?

You are taking highly ambiguous quotes from Bungie (a group well known for their ambiguous double meanings) as evidence. This is the group that originally said their next project wasn't going to be Halo related back during Halo 2. The group that POSTED the Cortana Letters but said it wasn't them. The group that made the "Early Transmissions" but said it wasn't them.

Bungie is known for it's misdirection. You can't use their ambiguous quotes as evidence, if there are multiple interpretations to them. As we've seen, bungie can say "Yes" or "No", too things, they have before when asked questions. Yet when it comes to these things, they give ambiguous answers... They give ambiguous answers because they are trying to cause misdirection, make you think it's not canon so they can use it later on and make you think "WTF?". Just as the Halo Encyclopedia did (with ILB, Johnson and the Spartan I's, etc.)

  • 02.14.2010 4:45 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

Your still trying to say she is canon? your wrong about nearly everything you posted.
Black team is canon because they have a comic and short story featuring them,new canon overwrites old canon.

Nicole isn't canon Because she was made exclusively for DoA 4, and hasn't been mentioned in anything else since, and how long ago was DoA4?

If you accept nicole into canon then your accepting DoA as halo canon, so all the people that fought that MAC are "real" in halo canon and the events happened.

And we all know while the covenant were attacking earth people weren't fighting on a MAC station.


* and seeing how bungie hasn't said ILB is canon and IRIS is, until they say ILB is canon it isn't.

[Edited on 02.15.2010 2:19 AM PST]

  • 02.15.2010 2:19 AM PDT
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You don't pay a whole lot of attention do you?

Your saying that because she isn't featured in anything but her bungie made backstory to DOA4, she isn't canon. That is by all means, stupid. By that logic, then Omega Team isn't canon because they only appear in Halo: Wars and aren't mentioned in anything else. Nobel Team isn't canon because they only appear in Halo: Reach and aren't mentioned in anything else.

When is it going to sink, the character doesn't have to appear in multiple pieces of canon, to be canon! Her Backstory is Bungie made, and nothing Bungie has said dictates or directs that she isn't canon.

Just because YOU don't want to accept it, does not mean it is false. Her being in DOA4 is, if you were to ever LOOK at her backstory, due to a slipspace event that thrust her back in time, along with the Apocalypso during the events of ILB.

Nicole's Backstory

So we created Spartan 458 - Nicole. And she's quite a lady. If you define "lady" as ferociously violent killing machine.

Nicole was born in the year 2531 in the city of New Legaspi on Mars. At six years of age she was abducted by agents of the Office of Naval Intelligence and conscriped into the Spartan II program. The Spartan II program was the UNSC's highly successful military project to augment and home perfect soldiers.

SPARTAN-458's unit was preparing for a classified mission on Nassau Station when the ONI stealth ship Apocalyps tumbled into real-space - being carried along in the wake of a freak slipspace anomaly. The anomaly intersected Nassau Station; creating a semi-stable "bubble" in the space/time continuum on it's way back to the 21st Century.

For the time being Nicole-458 is trapped in the 21st century; guarding Nassau Station's secrets with all but lethal force (she realizes killing someone in the past could have dire consequences), waiting for the "bubble" to collapse and hopefully returning her to the year 2552.


Now are you going to say that it's ridiculous because of time travel? You should look into the story of ILB. It's story is that the Apocalypso found what they believed to be a forerunner crystal in space, upon trying to take it to earth for study. Their slipspace travel had complications, due to the crystal, and upon coming out of slipspace a time "bubble" was created. Those things in the bubble were sent to the 21st century while what was not fell toward Earth and was then covered up by ONI. Hm... a slipspace/time altering crystal, sounds familiar... Whatever did happen to those unstable fragments of the crystal in First Strike?

Bungie hasn't said ILB isn't canon either! You need to quite making assumptions based on half-tru7hs. The events of ILB and thus ILB itself are canon as per the Encyclopedia. And until stated otherwise, the information from the Encyclopedia is canon!

Nicole is canon just as the Hyabusa armor is canon, they were made as a shared event between Bungie and Team Ninja. Bungie specifically states what Nicole IS NOT, and yet not once is it listed that "she is not a character of halo canon".]

  • 02.15.2010 3:17 AM PDT

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Posted by: Child0fTheMind


I've been meaning to update the thread for a while now, and try to make everything a lot clearer. I've said in some earlier posts that I'm willing to have ILB listed as canon if people don't have any major problems with that. Whenever I can update the thread I will most likely make amendments. I'm more hesitant with things like Nicole, for various reasons.

To be honest I've been putting off updating this thread, the main reason being that it is becoming less manageable to actually get a definite answer on canon. What with Bungie finishing up with Halo after Reach and the creation of 343 Studios it's going to become very confusing. I've always considered Bungie as the ultimate authority in all things Halo but as Microsoft owns the IP and because other studios are now working on or have worked on Halo games I don't think this can be said to be true any more.

What we really need is for 343 Studios to come out and say exactly what they consider canon and what isn't. I'm happy for this thread to fall into obscurity.

[Edited on 02.15.2010 3:24 PM PST]

  • 02.15.2010 10:32 AM PDT
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Thank you, Maimum FEAR. And I completely agree, the idea of canon and the halo universe is becoming more and more convoluted.

Halo: Wars, Halo: Legends, Halo: Reach, etc, each bringing in more and more inconsistencies, at first they were subtle like in Halo: Wars, but now with Legends and Reach they seem even more so.

I truly wonder if 343 has an ultimate plan for these?

  • 02.15.2010 12:12 PM PDT