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This topic has moved here: Subject: Guide to Canon in the Halo Universe
  • Subject: Guide to Canon in the Halo Universe
Subject: Guide to Canon in the Halo Universe

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Posted by: The Prophet
If Bungie refers to the novels when writing a game...why the heck it the Pillar of Autumn in Halo: Reach? In the book, the ship is fighting in orbit with Master Chief, with Cortana onboard. In the game, it isnt is all I will say for spoiler sake :).

So what gives canon wise with that?


According to the guidelines set out by Bungie (see original post) and the general rules that most franchises use (see Star Wars) the primary media/source is the highest form of canon. In the case of halo, the primary sources are the games so any contradictions between Reach and the novels should go in the favour of the game.

In the case of reach it seems to have done some retconning. That happens to growing franchises.

  • 10.25.2010 11:31 PM PDT

Bueno diría que muchas de estas discusiones de este tipo se deben a que Bungie es de los pocos estudios que que han creado un universo tan amplio.

  • 11.20.2010 5:44 PM PDT

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Posted by: teenSPAWN
I would say that many of these types of discussions are due to the fact that Bungie are one of only a few game studios who have created such a large universe.


Sorry if my translation isn't brilliant, haven't done any Spanish in a couple of years.

Although they have created quite a large universe with lots of different source material for information, it's still their responsibility to ensure it fits together in some sort of order. We're just trying to piece together where everything goes, what counts as canon and how to resolve contradictions.

  • 11.26.2010 1:09 AM PDT


Posted by: Maimum FEAR

Posted by: The Prophet
If Bungie refers to the novels when writing a game...why the heck it the Pillar of Autumn in Halo: Reach? In the book, the ship is fighting in orbit with Master Chief, with Cortana onboard. In the game, it isnt is all I will say for spoiler sake :).

So what gives canon wise with that?


According to the guidelines set out by Bungie (see original post) and the general rules that most franchises use (see Star Wars) the primary media/source is the highest form of canon. In the case of halo, the primary sources are the games so any contradictions between Reach and the novels should go in the favour of the game.

In the case of reach it seems to have done some retconning. That happens to growing franchises.
actually POA was on reach after it dropped red team and chief off

  • 11.26.2010 11:08 PM PDT

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Posted by: Qbix89
Links

Comprehensive List and Details of the Halo Novels and Comics - Max2107
Complete Halo Timeline - Halo.Bungie.Org

Halo: The Fall of Reach (Publisher's Page | Wikipedia Page)
Halo: The Flood (Publisher's Page | Wikipedia Page)
Halo: First Strike (Publisher's Page | Wikipedia Page)
Halo: Ghosts of Onyx (Publisher's Page | Wikipedia Page)
Halo: Contact Harvest (Publisher's Page | Wikipedia Page)
Halo: The Cole Protocol (Publisher's Page | Wikipedia Page)
The Cortana Letters (The Cortana Letters | Wikipedia Page)
ILOVEBEES.com (I Love Bees | Wikipedia Page)
Halo Wars (Official Page | Wikipedia Page | Xbox Page)
Dead or Alive 4 (Official Page | Wikipedia Page | Xbox Page)

Sweet job!
*thread saved*


nice.

  • 12.13.2010 4:30 PM PDT
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BEN SPARTAN120

This is a fantastic thread :) Keep up the good work :D

  • 12.19.2010 1:45 AM PDT

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I have completed that update to the guide. I need to restructure it so that it will work on the Bungie.net forums. However I have made it available as a PDF and a Word Document:

PDF Version 1.03
Docx (Microsoft Word) Version 1.03

[Edited on 01.04.2011 7:41 PM PST]

  • 01.04.2011 7:40 PM PDT

You don't kick a man when they're down, so don't teabag me when I'm dead!

Can someone specify exactly what parts of Halo Wars aren't canon?

  • 01.20.2011 4:46 AM PDT

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Posted by: EpicFishFingers
Can someone specify exactly what parts of Halo Wars aren't canon?


Halo Wars is considered canon in the Halo universe. All plot elements and similar features of the game are for all intensive purposes are seen as "fact". However some features of Halo Wars are not considered canon and were included to allow for balanced gameplay or for other reasons. This includes some characteristics of the armour worn by the Spartans in the game.

---------------------------

Update is complete, the guide is now available here at Bungie.net, in MS Word, PDF and in HTML on my website. See the first post for details.

As always please post any discussion, add links to quotes or any details regarding canon in this thread. Cheers everyone.

  • 01.23.2011 3:54 AM PDT

MJB

it could be assumed that the PoA disengaged after space combat and landed at Aszod dry docks in order to get quick repairs on any damage from combat and to retrieve the fragment of cortana that noble six had. this would have occurred after Master Chief, Linda and Johnson were all picked up from Gamma station, this is also supported by the fact that in an easter egg, a spartan is seen in a cryopod, (either John or Linda)

  • 01.23.2011 4:17 PM PDT

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Posted by: MAXPWN197
it could be assumed that the PoA disengaged after space combat and landed at Aszod dry docks in order to get quick repairs on any damage from combat and to retrieve the fragment of cortana that noble six had. this would have occurred after Master Chief, Linda and Johnson were all picked up from Gamma station, this is also supported by the fact that in an easter egg, a spartan is seen in a cryopod, (either John or Linda)


I think this is one of the more contentious things about Halo Reach. There has been plenty of discussion about it, but I don't think there's any consensus about solutions yet.

  • 01.25.2011 11:53 AM PDT
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Posted by: Maimum FEAR
Posted by: Blake Packbornne
In the case of Halo, the games rank first, books and other published works second, and marketing and PR third [NOTE: see above for the quote or the original thread right at the top]. So in this case, if one of the novels says something about a weapon and then one of the games contradict it, take the game as the "correct" version.

Also be aware that new work usually ranks above older material. So if Halo 3 says something that contradicts Halo 2, take Halo 3 as the canonical source for that piece of information.

Unless a Bungie employee has stated specifically that a piece of information in the game is incorrect or should be considered canon, always take games as canon and always take newer games over older games.


Which brings up the question: Which difficulty setting is most Canon?


In terms of canon I assume that details such as weapon physics is less important, to both Bungie and the fans, than say the plot and story elements. These details don't change with the changing of the difficulty setting. However, how much damage a weapon does and how much punishment a brute can take do change with the various difficulty settings.

Therefore I wouldn't worry about it too much. If anyone is interested in such specific detail then I would suggest comparing reports from different sources of canon, particularly the different games and the novels, and come up with your own conclusion.

Hope I helped.
I will say this, technically Heroic difficulty is the closest to the Halo Universe Canon

  • 01.27.2011 4:26 AM PDT

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Posted by: ODST ROOKIE 1911
[/quote] I will say this, technically Heroic difficulty is the closest to the Halo Universe Canon


The general consensus has mostly been that Heroic is the "canon" difficulty setting. I've seen Bungie employees say stuff to that effect at least.

Like I said though, that kind of stuff doesn't matter all that much, story/plot generally don't change or alter with difficulty changes.

  • 01.27.2011 7:10 AM PDT

ME: http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/default.aspx?player=BINARYG OD


Posted by: Qbix89
2. There are no Orbital MAC''s shown within Halo: Reach yet all other sources have stated that Reach has a number of Orbital MAC's to protect the planet from invading fleets. The Fall of Reach and First Strike both state that the MAC's were present on the August 30th when Reach fell, yet they were not present during Halo: Reach especially in the mission Long Night of Solace.


As per Orbital MAC's not being in Halo: Reach while they are talked about in the books as having been there - they ARE in the game.

MINI-SPOILER:
At the end of "ONI: Sword Base", pior to going to chat with Dr. Halsey, an Orbital Platform takes out that Corvette class cov ship...

In other parts of the game, one of NOBLE Team says something like "there must be a dozen orbital platforms that could take that thing out" or something like that... I think it's at the beginning of the same chapter...

Is the issue that in Halo: Reach they are used to kill things from above while in Halo: 2 they are used to defend the planet from "below" where the enemy ships are coming from? I dont find any issue with you not seeing them in the space-parts of Halo Reach since you had to go to a specific station to access a specific ship's drive while being within grasp of the cov battle group that contained that first super carrier (prior to the overwhelming invasion). There just wasn't an orbitting MAC around there... Also, the game can only render so many vertices in so much of a large area.

The space doc you start out fighting in space near doesnt have a MAC near it, and even if there were some near the cov battle group, they were probably destroyed. Remember that the AI in the game calls that area "covenenat occupied/controlled area" at some point during "Long Night of Solace" I doubt a MAC platform would still be intact in such an area...


I did a word-find for every page of the thread and didn't find anything related to the MAC's, so if was covered already, I apologize...

  • 03.27.2011 3:05 PM PDT

ME: http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/default.aspx?player=BINARYG OD


Posted by: Maimum FEAR

Posted by: ODST ROOKIE 1911
[/quote] I will say this, technically Heroic difficulty is the closest to the Halo Universe Canon


The general consensus has mostly been that Heroic is the "canon" difficulty setting. I've seen Bungie employees say stuff to that effect at least.

Like I said though, that kind of stuff doesn't matter all that much, story/plot generally don't change or alter with difficulty changes.


I think people are curious because when it comes to hidden data pads or journals or console's or whatyamacallit's from the Legendary difficulty, people want to know if those count as cannon or not.

The data pads from the Halo: Reach tell the story of pre-cortana-like AI's conspiring behind humanities back for their own self interest's - including what I believe is an effort, prior to running into the covenant, to shying us away from discovering forerunner tech. If you think about that, that probably did more harm than good, considering the covie war...

but anyway, I think people want to know how stuff like that, or odst sadie's story, fit into the grand fiction.

  • 03.27.2011 3:10 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: BINARYGOD

Posted by: Qbix89
2. There are no Orbital MAC''s shown within Halo: Reach yet all other sources have stated that Reach has a number of Orbital MAC's to protect the planet from invading fleets. The Fall of Reach and First Strike both state that the MAC's were present on the August 30th when Reach fell, yet they were not present during Halo: Reach especially in the mission Long Night of Solace.


As per Orbital MAC's not being in Halo: Reach while they are talked about in the books as having been there - they ARE in the game.

MINI-SPOILER:
At the end of "ONI: Sword Base", pior to going to chat with Dr. Halsey, an Orbital Platform takes out that Corvette class cov ship...

In other parts of the game, one of NOBLE Team says something like "there must be a dozen orbital platforms that could take that thing out" or something like that... I think it's at the beginning of the same chapter...

Is the issue that in Halo: Reach they are used to kill things from above while in Halo: 2 they are used to defend the planet from "below" where the enemy ships are coming from? I dont find any issue with you not seeing them in the space-parts of Halo Reach since you had to go to a specific station to access a specific ship's drive while being within grasp of the cov battle group that contained that first super carrier (prior to the overwhelming invasion). There just wasn't an orbitting MAC around there... Also, the game can only render so many vertices in so much of a large area.

The space doc you start out fighting in space near doesnt have a MAC near it, and even if there were some near the cov battle group, they were probably destroyed. Remember that the AI in the game calls that area "covenenat occupied/controlled area" at some point during "Long Night of Solace" I doubt a MAC platform would still be intact in such an area...


I did a word-find for every page of the thread and didn't find anything related to the MAC's, so if was covered already, I apologize...


1. It was never said that the strike was from a MAC, seeing how i don't think they could turn and face the planet (on a dime if that) nor would the blast have the minimal impact on the surrounding area. And kat said 3-4 platforms in the area.

2.I don't find any excuse as to why we don't see a MAC inspace at all in the game. The first place of LNoS takes place on one side of the planet and the next part on another. so i don't get why we don't see not a single platform not even in the distance

  • 03.27.2011 3:13 PM PDT

ME: http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/default.aspx?player=BINARYG OD


Posted by: grey101

1. It was never said that the strike was from a MAC, seeing how i don't think they could turn and face the planet (on a dime if that) nor would the blast have the minimal impact on the surrounding area. And kat said 3-4 platforms in the area.

2.I don't find any excuse as to why we don't see a MAC inspace at all in the game. The first place of LNoS takes place on one side of the planet and the next part on another. so i don't get why we don't see not a single platform not even in the distance


Why couldnt they turn around? It would have to be hours of fighting between the initial cov strike and then the final firing on the corvette. I would assume an orbital platform could turn around in that time frame... What platforms was Kat talking about then? What DID take out the corvette? It obviously came from far up above... like in orbit.

Also, I was under the impression that MAC were more precision than area of affect in nature. That they were magnetically accelerated payloads meant to punch holes in things, not blast an area...


As for your second point, I guess it's a difference of opinion, but I dont see why they HAD to show a MAC platform at either of the area's in LNoS. I would just consider it a lack of attention to detail that in both space area's there isn't much of anything going in the distance other than pretty sky-box's.

But I understand the gripe. I find that in several areas of Reach, they don't seem to quite offer the scale the game was lauded as having. That one scene in Halo 2 when your on Halo Delta (or whatever it was called), and right before you go into to kill the prophet, when the cov city and HUGE fleet come out of slip space in the sky, THAT is way more epic and huge-scale than anything shown of the covenet fleet in reach. I know the reach fleet might not has as large, but even Halo 3 gave a better sense of "arrrrr, there be covie everywhere"

EDIT - My main point with all that about the MAC stuff was that there WAS something in Reach that was very MAC like that killed the corvette in ONI Sword Base, so stating that there is a continuity error between Halo Reach and The Fall of Reach based on that seems fuzzy to me.


EDIT 2 - http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Mac


EDIT 3 - Kat actually says something like "there must be three orbital platforms that could take thing out with MAC rounds"...

[Edited on 04.04.2011 5:51 PM PDT]

  • 03.27.2011 4:06 PM PDT

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Posted by: BINARYGOD

Posted by: Maimum FEAR

Posted by: ODST ROOKIE 1911
[/quote] I will say this, technically Heroic difficulty is the closest to the Halo Universe Canon


The general consensus has mostly been that Heroic is the "canon" difficulty setting. I've seen Bungie employees say stuff to that effect at least.

Like I said though, that kind of stuff doesn't matter all that much, story/plot generally don't change or alter with difficulty changes.


I think people are curious because when it comes to hidden data pads or journals or console's or whatyamacallit's from the Legendary difficulty, people want to know if those count as cannon or not.

The data pads from the Halo: Reach tell the story of pre-cortana-like AI's conspiring behind humanities back for their own self interest's - including what I believe is an effort, prior to running into the covenant, to shying us away from discovering forerunner tech. If you think about that, that probably did more harm than good, considering the covie war...

but anyway, I think people want to know how stuff like that, or odst sadie's story, fit into the grand fiction.


I'm not entirely sure about stuff like the terminals and data pads, though as they are part of the game and story they can probably be considered canon.

When I say Heroic is the canon difficulty I'm talking about damage, movement and weapon effect etc. rather than plot devices like the data pads. The data pads are probably all considered canon regardless of the difficulty, they will just be placed in different difficulties to make it more of a challenge to obtain them. I doubt any of them rank above others.

  • 03.27.2011 6:19 PM PDT

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Posted by: Maimum FEAR

I'm not entirely sure about stuff like the terminals and data pads, though as they are part of the game and story they can probably be considered canon.

When I say Heroic is the canon difficulty I'm talking about damage, movement and weapon effect etc. rather than plot devices like the data pads. The data pads are probably all considered canon regardless of the difficulty, they will just be placed in different difficulties to make it more of a challenge to obtain them. I doubt any of them rank above others.


FYI those new novels coming out about the Forerunner-Flood war are based, at least partially, on the terminals in halo 3.

  • 03.27.2011 11:14 PM PDT

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Posted by: BINARYGOD

Posted by: Maimum FEAR

I'm not entirely sure about stuff like the terminals and data pads, though as they are part of the game and story they can probably be considered canon.

When I say Heroic is the canon difficulty I'm talking about damage, movement and weapon effect etc. rather than plot devices like the data pads. The data pads are probably all considered canon regardless of the difficulty, they will just be placed in different difficulties to make it more of a challenge to obtain them. I doubt any of them rank above others.


FYI those new novels coming out about the Forerunner-Flood war are based, at least partially, on the terminals in halo 3.


I've got a huge backlog of books to read at the moment, and I stupidly keep buying more, so I probably won't get to read them till long after they are out. I haven't even read Evolutions 1 yet.

Other people will have to do the hard work and see how they fit in with the rest of the universe.

  • 03.30.2011 2:55 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

I have a question.


If we are suppose to go by the motion that Games > Books what do we do if a book is written directly by a person that does the games?

Example being contact harvest.

Is it magically more accurate due to the fact a developer wrote it?

  • 04.13.2011 4:26 PM PDT
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We're only supposed to go by game>books if theres a inconsistensy. Unless I'm mistaken the original Bungie quote said that the canon hierarchy only comes into play "in case of contradictions."

If theres no problems games=books.

[Edited on 04.13.2011 4:46 PM PDT]

  • 04.13.2011 4:43 PM PDT

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Basically ranking works the same regardless of the author. The ranking list for all canon material is in the OP.

  • 05.05.2011 3:57 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Maimum FEAR
Basically ranking works the same regardless of the author. The ranking list for all canon material is in the OP.


Can you explain that though? Because when it comes to that i feel it should be just as "pure canon" as any game.

  • 05.05.2011 6:56 PM PDT