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This topic has moved here: Subject: Guide to Canon in the Halo Universe
  • Subject: Guide to Canon in the Halo Universe
Subject: Guide to Canon in the Halo Universe

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Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Maimum FEAR
Basically ranking works the same regardless of the author. The ranking list for all canon material is in the OP.


Can you explain that though? Because when it comes to that i feel it should be just as "pure canon" as any game.


As far as I can see it that's just the way it works. Probably due to the fact that when a game is made, there are multiple writers, producers, directors and project leads all making sure everything work and fits together. A game is very much a group effort and is more representative of Bungie.

A novel, although there will be multiple people involved, is always going to be more of an individual effort. Even if the author is a Bungie writer its still his own stuff rather than that of Bungie.

  • 05.06.2011 1:18 PM PDT

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Posted by: Maimum FEAR


I'm sorry, I'll taken Staten's word over Frankie's on the Halo story any day of the week. Meaning no respect to Frankie, he came on after Halo 1 and left for MS to follow the Halo IP, whereas Staten is a Bungie guy through and through and was there since before Halo started. That Frankie contradicted him two years later and that Staten backpedaled ever so slightly after that isn't particularly significant to me.


The first post and the second post by Louis Wu outline very clearly why although not completely decisive it it fairly appropriate and suitable to say that I Love Bees is not canon. I'm not going to change the original thread but I will link to your post and my reply. Thanks for posting your criticism nevertheless as no doubt other people will have had the same criticism and its been addressed. Thanks, if you want to discuss it further feel free to do so in the thread or give me a PM.


I'd just like to point out that the above quote-- starting off with preferring Staten's word over Frankie's-- isn't a post by Louis Wu, but a post by myself. On the subject of ILB itself I think Wu and I mostly agree, but I'm betting there are a few choice words in that post that he'd be unhappy to have put in his mouth :)

At least the ILB questions are now mostly ignored in favor of discussion about how Halo needs to be protected against Bungie's ruinous retconning by 343i (sarcasm detector activated). Came back to this thread for reference in a canon discussion at HBO, glad to see it was still here :)

[Edited on 05.26.2011 3:23 AM PDT]

  • 05.26.2011 3:16 AM PDT

i want to know how johnson wasn't infected with by the flood.

  • 06.22.2011 12:50 PM PDT

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Posted by: grey101
2.I don't find any excuse as to why we don't see a MAC inspace at all in the game. The first place of LNoS takes place on one side of the planet and the next part on another. so i don't get why we don't see not a single platform not even in the distance

Doesn't look like they went to the other side of Reach.

  • 06.22.2011 1:01 PM PDT

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Posted by: Narcogen
I'd just like to point out that the above quote-- starting off with preferring Staten's word over Frankie's-- isn't a post by Louis Wu, but a post by myself. On the subject of ILB itself I think Wu and I mostly agree, but I'm betting there are a few choice words in that post that he'd be unhappy to have put in his mouth :)

At least the ILB questions are now mostly ignored in favor of discussion about how Halo needs to be protected against Bungie's ruinous retconning by 343i (sarcasm detector activated). Came back to this thread for reference in a canon discussion at HBO, glad to see it was still here :)


Thanks for pointing that out, must have misread the HBO forums. I'll make sure to change when/if there is another revision of this document.

Glad to see the thread is still useful.

Posted by: RagedSycokiller
i want to know how johnson wasn't infected with by the flood.


This isn't really the thread to discuss this, but if you do a search for said character on google I'm sure you'll find plenty of information on that subject.

  • 06.23.2011 6:10 AM PDT

I've taken some flak for stating that the advertising information released with Reach currently has more authority over things stated by characters or in narration in other books. What do you think about it? How would you rank new marketing material for a new game, would you say that until a new book or game comes along and contradicts it that the marketing material would be part of the golden standard? That's my take on it anyway, because if all marketing materials are subject to the books and games no matter what then why would Bungie put any effort to explain some things in them like they did with Reach?

Also, I think you should create a section for Reach in your list, the Ninja who posted a section on Reach raises a couple good points, but I think his points 2, 3, and 4 should be altered or struck out because they're not entirely accurate. I would suggest altering 4 and 3 because they can have plausible reasons of explanation worked out based on previous sources. I think having that link to Caboose's thread on the issues brought about by Reach is a good idea, but it should not be treated as if everything listed in there is a contradiction with previous materials, some of the issues Caboose and others in there listed actually have been addressed and resolved by Bungie in both the marketing materials for Reach and Halsey's Journal.

This is a very good thread you have here, I think we can do a lot with this by trying to hammer seeming conflicts and the like out and coming up with some more definitive picture of what we actually know.

I have a list of people who can help oversee all of this if you think you need the aid while you catch up on current releases to Halo's story or something. If you want help with all this I'd suggest approaching, Grey101, Anton1792, Cmdr DaeFaron, Decepticon Cobra, and I'd be willing to lend a hand in whatever way I can too. There're probably a lot more people who'd be good help and willing to lend a hand too if they were approached, but those four are the main ones I'd suggest.

  • 06.24.2011 12:05 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

I am up for helping any community project or any sort, i also have a list of credible contacts that would help also.

  • 06.24.2011 12:17 PM PDT

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Dude great work on this.

  • 06.24.2011 12:32 PM PDT

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Posted by: OrderedComa


My understanding of the ranking of canon (and that of various employees) is that simply games rank first, then books/novels/graphic novels, and then marketing materials. Although new items outrank older items I don't think marketing materials can ever outrank books and games.

Basically games outrank everything. New games outrank older games. Books/novels etc. outrank marketing materials, and new books outrank older books. Marketing materials are outranked by everything else, but new marketing materials outrank older marketing materials.

So basically Halo 2 is a higher authority in terms of canon than any advertisements for Halo: Reach.

However unless there are contradictions between different items then you can take that what they say as canon. However if there are contradictions take the games as the highest authority always.

Marketing materials are awkward in that they are outsourced to different companies who are given a brief but have a certain degree of creative freedom, so you have to take such things with a grain of salt.

The stuff in the ninja's post is all my stuff anyway, I just had to put it there because I ran out of space in my two posts. The points listed are not definitive and I consider starting points for discussions rather than actual definitive errors.

See my point below about adding more stuff to this thread.
Posted by: grey101
I am up for helping any community project or any sort, i also have a list of credible contacts that would help also.


I'm not really planning on updating this particular project any more. Now that Halo is in the hands of 343i it's up to them to decide how they want the canon to work and I'm not really that interested or motivated enough to continually update this.

I'm kind of hoping that they will come out and either announce how canon will work or some other sort of announcement.

However if you want to then please feel free to write up some stuff or work with other people to come up with some refinements or improvements then you can post them in here and people can see them, if I do update the original document then I can add stuff like this in later.


Posted by: Clark 714
Dude great work on this.


Thanks.

[Edited on 06.25.2011 5:03 AM PDT]

  • 06.25.2011 4:58 AM PDT

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Wow! Nice job!

Thread saved.

  • 06.25.2011 5:07 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

Fear, though it is up for 343i to decide how canon works can you still post this in there forums or let me do it in you name?

I don't want something like this to be waste if bungie wipes out this forum. I am actually in the process of looking through old threads and saving much as possible.

I sound like the librarian..

  • 06.25.2011 7:11 AM PDT

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I don't want anyone to reproduce this document without my express permission.

If people think it would be useful or necessary to post it over at 343i then I will do so at a later date.

And don't worry about losing this thread, the forum won't be going anywhere any time soon AND I have copies of the document saved in a variety of formats.

  • 06.25.2011 8:33 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

I know which is why i asked, still i think it would be good to expand this over to the 343i forums until(and if) this changes.

  • 06.25.2011 8:34 AM PDT

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Posted by: grey101
I know which is why i asked, still i think it would be good to expand this over to the 343i forums until(and if) this changes.


The only problem is that this guide deals primarily (pretty much exclusively) on what Bungie employees think. Now that they are no longer in charge it would seem odd to post this over at 343.

My point really is that what can and cannot be considered canon now is totally up to 343. Therefore a collection of quotes from Bungie employees doesn't really bare much weight on what 343i think about canon.

This is the main reason why I haven't updated and don't plan to update this thread anymore.

  • 06.25.2011 8:44 AM PDT

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Canon, canon, canon.

So bored of that word now.

  • 07.23.2011 12:22 AM PDT

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Thanks, bro!

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  • 08.23.2011 9:01 AM PDT


Posted by: UrethaPoptarts

Everything that Bungie has ever approved is canonical.


So this means that Nicole 458 is canon?


so you think that dead or alive happened in the halo universe?

  • 09.20.2011 3:27 PM PDT
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Cannon overrides piss me off. This cannon stuff pisses me off.

[Edited on 09.20.2011 3:50 PM PDT]

  • 09.20.2011 3:49 PM PDT