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Subject: Halo Story Lacks Any Form of Moral Dilemma

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The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher regard those who think alike than those who think differently.

كل نفس ذائقة الموت

Halo: Reach needs to take a big literary step forward for the Halo universe.

Halo 3 treated us to the first loss of any major characters. The scenes were impactful because these were developed characters that we had come to know. This was a big step forward for story telling in the Halo games.

Unfortunately, one thing that has always been lacking is any sense of moral dilemma for the characters. It's briefly touched on in the case of the Elites who switch over to supporting the human cause but even this example misses the mark. The Elites in that case had been betrayed by the Covenant.

The problem here is that every choice and every action is an undeniably justifiable action. The characters actions are never questioned and never have the potential to lead to any regretable outcome. This is worrisome because of the nature of the games themselves.

In the Halo games and books the only form of conflict resolution is the overwhelming use of force. This presents a problem because it imbeds the notion in people's minds that the only effective way to deal with an enemy is through a show of power. The belief that every enemy must be defeated through force is a dangerous ideal that is prevalent in American culture today. The suggestion that enemys can be converted to allies by identifying common goals is widely rejected in our society. This is a historic failure of our culture that is currently causing us no end of troubles.

Bungie has never once in there games challenged the idea that resolution comes through superior force. The main characters have never faced any moral dilemma in which the use of force, while perhaps necessary, results in some type of loss. There is never any difficulty in choosing to shoot your way out of a problem because the game constantly reinforces the idea that the gun is the solution to all problems.

Look, I understand this is a game and that the game is based on the idea that shooting things is fun. But there's also a story underlying this game. Halo, more than most other games, has advanced the art of story telling in video games. Bungie has been responsible for pushing games closer to the realm of art an literature through their masterful use of story telling and the complex univers they've created.

Why then is the story so juvenile? The methods and goals of the UNSC are never cast in doubt. There are never negative consquences for the decisions of the main characters. Even the kidnapping and systematice abuse of children to make Spartans is never questioned because the ends always justify the means due to the unquestionable righteousness of the cause of Humanity.

The Halo universe has had so many opportunities to present moral dilemmas and cast doubt on the actions of the protagonists but has never had the guts to cast any doubt on the righteousness of the Human characters. This is a major failing of the stories and games.

Halo: Reach needs to finally challenge the notion that force is always the answer and that the ends always justify the means in supporting the goals of the main characters.

  • 06.09.2009 11:21 AM PDT
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Thats a lotof words, you make a good point.

  • 06.09.2009 11:26 AM PDT

Five years older and wiser
The fires are burning, I'm fire, never tire
Slay warriors in the forests, and on hire

i couldn't be bothered too read all this but, what morals are needed? A covenant of aliens want to destroy the human race. what do we do? KILL EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM

  • 06.09.2009 11:28 AM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

I definately see what you are saying, but here is the rub, it's an FPS. No matter how you wanna look at it, it is an FPS. The fan base for FPS do not want story heavy games. Story driven, yes, but not story heavy. The Halo novels are full of situations like those that you mention, but they don't make their way into the games. As long as they choose to keep things in an FPS format, I would assume that things will not change in that sense.

One of the things that has drawn people into Halo over the last several years is it's simplicity. Again when it comes to shooters the majority of the fanbase want good, simple gameplay that works well. If you layer in heavy story elements and have branching missions that are effected by choice, your overcomplicate the FPS formula.

I would love to see a game that has some real weight to the story. Perhaps with Reach they will find a way, but as it was announced to be another FPS (much to my personal dissapointment) I don't think it will be much different.

  • 06.09.2009 11:28 AM PDT

Summarise it, and perhaps I'll be able to give you an accurate response.

  • 06.09.2009 11:29 AM PDT

Dr. Halsey tries to get John to understand he should save every last person instead of just completing his mission in Fall of Reach, or it might have been first strike.

Also she has a major moral dilema with what she did to the spartans

  • 06.09.2009 11:34 AM PDT

I am flatterd that you botherd to look at my signature.

whell this would be the case... they tryed to make alies with the covenant.. but the prophets knew what the humans were and in order for them to keep control of the covenant they had to get rid of the humans..

and in the books chief makes a choice... to save many lives or just a few..

he chose the just a few cause to save many it would sacrifice jhonson... jhonson was his friend and was worth more than hundreds of lives to him..

and there was a guy who wanted to escape the first halo ring useing a covenant ship.. but the covenant ship had flood all in it.. he was going to take it to earth any ways.. so another person i think she was a mechanic set the core to go off killing every one on the ship..but to save earth..she wasent questioned cause she was dead..

and when fighting for your life choices are simple... it's them or it is you..

  • 06.09.2009 11:37 AM PDT

...
......
.........
What?

CyberFreak, I would suggest reading the books for a more complex and in-depth story (from a literary point of view). They have more elements such as those you are looking for (e.g. Dr. Halsey's increasing sense of guilt for what she has done to create the Spartans is not shown in the games, but in quite a few places in the book).

  • 06.09.2009 11:45 AM PDT

Here we are again bro... Just you and me. Same kind of moon same kind of jungle. Real number 10 remember... Whole platoon, 32 men chopped into meat... We walk out just you and me, nobody else. Right on top huh? Not a scratch... Not a f**kin' scratch. You know who ever got you. They'll come back again. And when he does I'm gonna cut your name right into him... I'M GONNA CUT YOUR NAME RIGHT INTO HIM!

I can see you point mate, I really can. My opinion is although a good storyline is essential to a game a balance has to be made when that game is a FPS and that balance will always tip on the side of game play which at the end of the day has to be fun. Halo games are a bit imature I think but then arnt most games supposed to be a bit? Escapism vs Real life and Game vs Interactive movie. Writing a great game storyline is no easy task.

  • 06.09.2009 12:04 PM PDT

"We sleep peaceably in our beds, because rough men stand ready to visit violence upon those that wish to do us harm."

"Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of all those who threaten them."

Well you have moral dilemma's in the form of is the Spartan program right? If you had just played the games the answer is yes, but considering it's initial goals and how it was established it wasn't exactly pure. This would be a perfect example of do the ends justify the means. I think it is explored in the books with Halsey, you can't really expect the Chief to question the morality of the action Spartans aren't going to complain about it it's their life and they're the best at what they do.

Is the sacrifice on outer worlds right? What makes some of the inner colonies better than the outer ones? You could also argue for the rebels. As for a dilemma in the war I think that'd be difficult to add as how do you make friends with enemy who exists to kill you? You can't. The Covenant at that point simply wants to kill every -blam!- saipen and raze every last human world.

That being said, I don't necessarily want one. I don't think that every single story needs to have moral question. Not every show, movie, game needs to be 24. It's ok to have a classic Good vs Evil where the good guys are generally good and the bad guys bad. You don't always have to have shades of gray, because sometimes it is like that.

[Edited on 06.09.2009 12:18 PM PDT]

  • 06.09.2009 12:16 PM PDT

If there is any power to be found, it's within yourself, not your weapon.

It seems to me what you're saying is...Halo does have moral dilemmas, but they're not good enough for you; therefore, Halo has no moral dilemmas.

Maybe they're not the best story moments in video game history, but they ARE moral dilemmas.

  • 06.09.2009 12:19 PM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

Posted by: Drum Fr34k
CyberFreak, I would suggest reading the books for a more complex and in-depth story (from a literary point of view). They have more elements such as those you are looking for (e.g. Dr. Halsey's increasing sense of guilt for what she has done to create the Spartans is not shown in the games, but in quite a few places in the book).


Not to speak for him, but he is quite familiar with the books, that is no his dilemma. What he wants is for the games to start getting into some of the heavier ground that the universe treads on. The games stay fairly far away from the heavier story aspects in the written works. I completely understand this, but for a fan of the Halo universe it does leave the games somewhat wanting.

  • 06.09.2009 12:24 PM PDT

Member of team Master Theory.

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If you would like to know more about Mythic difficulty please go to this thread. Thank you.

Please do not send me "recruitment messages" as I'm not interested in joining any groups currently.

I don't think such moral dilemma situations would work well in an FPS.
However, the Halo books do, as you have mentioned, have many such situations:

Dr. Halsey questioning the "greater good".

Admiral Whitcomb fleeing from the rebel asteroid base knowing he was leaving them to die and wishing it wasn't necessary.

Halsey again, trying to show John that every life counts by giving him both variations of the data for ONI.

Undoubtedly there are plenty of other examples, but those seem to spring to mind the fastest.
I'd hardly say that the story is lacking "Moral dilemmas" but rather that the games would be unable to implement such nuances without taking a hit to the simplicity of the gameplay system (ie: load a mission from a linear selection. Dynamic Campaigns would tell the story differently every time which frankly wouldn't feel like Halo.) Now, if it could be pulled of whilst retaining the basics so to speak I think I'd be all for such progress. Until then, not so much.

[Edited on 06.09.2009 12:29 PM PDT]

  • 06.09.2009 12:27 PM PDT

I am flatterd that you botherd to look at my signature.

bungie is good at makeing games and telling stories...and they are learning and getting better... so who knows maybe bungie will make a storie that will make people laugh and make people cry..........lol but anyays im sure bungie dosent have plans to ruin our gameing experiance..


  • 06.09.2009 12:29 PM PDT

Honestly, the Halo story is better than a lot of storys with moral dillemas. If Bungie can incorporate them without focusing too much or making them seem forced then I'm all for it, but the same could be said about dance numbers

  • 06.09.2009 12:32 PM PDT

Spartans were trained not to feel emotions so that could be a reason why their isn't much in the game.

  • 06.09.2009 12:36 PM PDT

.
The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher regard those who think alike than those who think differently.

كل نفس ذائقة الموت

I accept many of the examples you guys have given from the books but I don't feel as though any of them represent true moral dilemmas. They may be examples of a characters morality but in every example the choice for the individual was never in doubt. They made even morally ambiguous choices based on the idea that the ends justified all means or they were driven by their basic moral sense to a single choice.

Never does anyone show any doubt about the choices they make. (Dr. Halsey not withstanding, she may deplore the necessity of her decisions with the Spartan program but she never regrets them.)

SweetTRIX is absolutely right. I want Reach to move away from the juvenile themes and deal with some of the heavy realities of life. So far all we have is "superior force solves problems" and "the ends always justify the means". In todays political climate Bungie has a perfect opportunity to highlight the pitfalls in these modes of thinking.

I'm not asking for a heavy handed moral pulpit. I'm saying that by employing these elements in the story line Bungie can increase the depth of their story telling. Just like they did when they took the brave step of allowing Johnson and Miranda to die.

  • 06.09.2009 12:39 PM PDT

Here we are again bro... Just you and me. Same kind of moon same kind of jungle. Real number 10 remember... Whole platoon, 32 men chopped into meat... We walk out just you and me, nobody else. Right on top huh? Not a scratch... Not a f**kin' scratch. You know who ever got you. They'll come back again. And when he does I'm gonna cut your name right into him... I'M GONNA CUT YOUR NAME RIGHT INTO HIM!

Can we count Forgey boy taking one for the team in Halo Wars?

  • 06.09.2009 12:52 PM PDT

Wait, you actually checked this?

Will you be my friend?

I'm with you, in that I'd like the Halo games to have more moral dilemmas, but (IMO) it's hard to factor in a decision-making device into a war between humanity and an alien hodge-podge. If humanity had started the Human-Covie War by a show of force for whatever reason, than that would be the window for Bungie to make the player think about why and what they are doing. But since the War was started to basically cover-up a plot hole in the Covenant's religion that could (in Truth's eyes) destroy the Covenant, the only real chance for moral questioning could come from the Covie's side, since humanity is fighting for survival.

This actually happens in 'The Cole Protocol' when one of the Elites (Zhar, I think) begins questioning the Prophets actual importance and potency in the Covenant. After seeing the Prophet's contradicting machinations and plans, he no longer believes in their claim to be the voice of the Covenant, and is killed fighting over this belief.

Not to mention, Halo 2 was a good example of all of this. The Arbiter is betrayed at the hands of Tartarus, and by the Prophets, and is practically thrown into the Covenant Civil War.

If Bungie really wanted to make a game dealing with morals, a good setting would be after Halo 3, in a the midst of a flimsy Human-Sanghelli Alliance.

  • 06.09.2009 1:01 PM PDT

This would be a good time to point out that the US Government seriously did consider nuking the moon during the Cold War as a show of force. Project A119.

"A large explosion on the Terminator line would put the sun behind the mushroom cloud, making the explosion visible with the naked eye from Earth."

Then the US decided they'd just send in Neil Armstrong to land on it. Neil Armstrong - the one man on the earth that was considered a suitable replacement for a nuclear missile.

How about the fact that the planet you were raised on is suddenly destroyed?

  • 06.09.2009 1:12 PM PDT

Wait, you actually checked this?

Will you be my friend?

Posted by: pawnanism
How about the fact that the planet you were raised on is suddenly destroyed?

That's not really a moral dilemma, unless the Covenant were given the choice between destroying your planet, or destroying a crate of puppies. In which case, that would be a moral dilemma

  • 06.09.2009 1:16 PM PDT

.
The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher regard those who think alike than those who think differently.

كل نفس ذائقة الموت

Lots of good points made here and I'm starting to think that I didn't give enough credit for the instances from the books.

Aside from that.

Yes, story branching could be difficult given the necessity for Halo: Reach to stay within the parameters of established canon. That's not to say it couldn't be done but it's not necessary either. You could simply show where a character makes a choice in one cut scene and then in the following cut scene at the end of the level you could show how that decision achieved the desired goal but at a great cost. Imagine a Spartan sacrificing the life of another Spartan in order to achieve the mission goals. If this happened early enough in the game you could demonstrate how this decision affected that character by having them reverse that moral choice during a similar choice later in the game.

First sacrifice one for many.
Gain some personal growth from that choice.
Choose the one over many later in the game.

Let's leave behind the simplistic idea that our personal interests outweigh all other considerations and that all problems can be resolved with enough bullets.


[Edited on 06.09.2009 1:24 PM PDT]

  • 06.09.2009 1:21 PM PDT

Wait, you actually checked this?

Will you be my friend?

What would've been interesting to see is if back in Halo 2, we were given the option to have the Arbiter choose between fighting for the Prophets, or fighting for his fellow Elites.

  • 06.09.2009 1:26 PM PDT

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