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Subject: Halo Story Lacks Any Form of Moral Dilemma

It is a good point, but I don't believe the stories are not juvenile. Sure in the books people did bad things, but these books and games aren't made for a younger audience in mind. They are made for people who should already be (rated M for) mature enough to handle the story line and not let it effect their own actions.

They aren't trying to teach kids morales, they are keeping us entertained, and make some cash doing so.

That's my two cents, I'm sure in the long run that it doesn't matter.

  • 06.09.2009 1:26 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

First major loss of characters?

I guess Captain Keyes, FoeHammer, nearly all the spartans, aren't major losses.

  • 06.09.2009 1:29 PM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

When you get right into it, it also depends heavily on how you define moral dilemma. There are several instances in the books where John as well as a few other Spartans were torn about about the decisions they have made in the field. The entire book of Ghosts of Onyx was a huge challenge of morality for both the UNSC and Kurt. I do agree that the prevalant theme throughout the Halo games is "fight the enemy" but you have to remember that the games come in quite a bit after the engagements have actually begun.

When you look at it from a fundamentalist standpoint, it is not too surprising that all the UNSC is doing at this point is fighting, they are in survival mode affterall. I'm wondering if the Forerunner series of novels that is supposedely happening is going to be a little more heavy handed. But it does depend entirely on the taste and moral compass of the individual.

MC ignoring protocol so that Johnson could live is a huge issue of morality for a Spartan, who lives and breathes protocol. Halsey's decisions that borderline treason but are made for the good of her Spartans and ultimately humanity. Major Silva (correct me if i'm wrong) morally ambiguous decision to bring back a flood infected marine for study. The stories have several isolated issues of morality, but the story itself never does, not on the whole.

  • 06.09.2009 1:31 PM PDT

Posted by: SweetTRIX
I definately see what you are saying, but here is the rub, it's an FPS. No matter how you wanna look at it, it is an FPS. The fan base for FPS do not want story heavy games. Story driven, yes, but not story heavy.
That's a really good point, there.

Bungie's mission statement basically states that they want to create story-driven, but not necessarily story-based games. The mission statement (from what I remember) is somewhere along the lines of creating rich, interactive, story-driven 3D games.

If you ask me, the story is told by the events that unfold in-game, not all during the cinematic. I'm also gonna guess Bungie likes to keep us guessing, too -- keeping the Halo universe mysterious and interesting.

  • 06.09.2009 1:37 PM PDT

This ain't Gears or Call of Duty, you really shouldn't be expecting much of a story.

  • 06.09.2009 1:38 PM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

Posted by: GreenDevilJF
This ain't Gears or Call of Duty, you really shouldn't be expecting much of a story.


Are you serious? I love both games (Modern Warfare, not WaW) but they are perfect examples of what the OP is tired of, absolution through action. Not until about half way through GOW2 do you even get the idea that there may be more going on here, and COD does not have a deep story.

The problem isn't the property, it's the media format. This is exactly why I was hoping Reach was gonna be a 3rd person or some type of larger scale game (Oblivion/Fallout3) to get people a little more involved.

  • 06.09.2009 1:45 PM PDT

"We sleep peaceably in our beds, because rough men stand ready to visit violence upon those that wish to do us harm."

"Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of all those who threaten them."

Posted by: GreenDevilJF
This ain't Gears or Call of Duty, you really shouldn't be expecting much of a story.


Your saying those games have story lines? CoDs is WWII. They didn't create it at all so if you count that I guess it does, but as for the actual in game stuff it has almost no story. And Gears? I saw so little story from Gears that I didn't even bother buying the second game (that and I think the online sucked). Why were the Locust waging the war? And why did the sensor module kill the locust?


Posted by: TheCyberFreak
Lots of good points made here and I'm starting to think that I didn't give enough credit for the instances from the books.

Aside from that.

Yes, story branching could be difficult given the necessity for Halo: Reach to stay within the parameters of established canon. That's not to say it couldn't be done but it's not necessary either. You could simply show where a character makes a choice in one cut scene and then in the following cut scene at the end of the level you could show how that decision achieved the desired goal but at a great cost. Imagine a Spartan sacrificing the life of another Spartan in order to achieve the mission goals. If this happened early enough in the game you could demonstrate how this decision affected that character by having them reverse that moral choice during a similar choice later in the game.

First sacrifice one for many.
Gain some personal growth from that choice.
Choose the one over many later in the game.

Let's leave behind the simplistic idea that our personal interests outweigh all other considerations and that all problems can be resolved with enough bullets.

The limited number of Spartans and the general knowledge around most of their deaths make being forced to sacrifice one unlikely I think. And if your looking at a regular marine vs Reach well for a Spartan that would never be choice. And as for the one of the many, frankly at this point I'd like to know who would choose that at this point in the war? Humanity is down to it's last planets you would never be able to say let Reach die just to save this one person. That decision would kill the species. Even Halsey wasn't saying let the many die, she was saying let me try and save everyone she never killed or risked anyone.

I also believe part of the Spartan's personality is that they don't feel very much. The Chief won't stop and all of a sudden start saying hey let me save Miranda and let the rest of the galaxy die.

[Edited on 06.09.2009 1:58 PM PDT]

  • 06.09.2009 1:55 PM PDT

Wait... Miranda Keyes was developed? I mean... at least Johnson had Contact Harvest.

  • 06.09.2009 2:04 PM PDT

Posted by: Cheesusslice
It is a good point, but I don't believe the stories are not juvenile. Sure in the books people did bad things, but these books and games aren't made for a younger audience in mind. They are made for people who should already be (rated M for) mature enough to handle the story line and not let it effect their own actions.

They aren't trying to teach kids morales, they are keeping us entertained, and make some cash doing so.

That's my two cents, I'm sure in the long run that it doesn't matter.


I'm not entertained by bit characters we learn little about in the games, who just happen to die. In Up, Carl's wife dies, and he ends up becoming protective of his mailbox and property him and his wife built over the years. It's all he has left of his wife. It helps us feel and relate with the character. The need to connect makes anything far more magical and entertaining than watching Sargent Johnson talk about he used to fight with sticks and rocks. I'm not saying we don't need a hilarious Sargent Johnson speech. I'm just saying you have to balance that out within the game like Pixar balances out emotion with humor and action. Baysplosions are fun and all in Transformers, but they would be much better with deeper characters.

[Edited on 06.09.2009 2:16 PM PDT]

  • 06.09.2009 2:14 PM PDT
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my gt is Godzillla....i just didnt link it properly

space aliens, and space alien zombie parasites are enough moral dilemma for me

this isnt final fantasy

  • 06.09.2009 2:17 PM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

Posted by: disgruntledfan2
Wait... Miranda Keyes was developed? I mean... at least Johnson had Contact Harvest.


Mmmmmm developed.....hahaha, sorry my immaturity got the best of me there for a moment, work is making me a little crazy.

Anyway while she may not have been as big a character with as much back story, she was still a major player. I'll admit that her death caught me off gaurd. I had a feeling Johnson was going to die since he lived through every other freaking engagement, but Miranda's death was a sligh curveball.

  • 06.09.2009 2:33 PM PDT

.
The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher regard those who think alike than those who think differently.

كل نفس ذائقة الموت

Posted by: GodZillla
space aliens, and space alien zombie parasites are enough moral dilemma for me

this isnt final fantasy
But it wouldn't hurt you. If you're not interested in the story you can just skip the cutscenes.

Halo: Reach would benefit from a bit more depth in the story telling. If every choice you make is right and justifiable and every consequence of your actions is acceptable then you're shallow and everyone probably hates you for the damage you do to the people around you. There's always more than one facet to an issue. Failing to account for this fact inevitably leads to anguish for others. Taking into account these facets inevitably leads to personal anguish concerning the consequences of your decisions.

Either way, emphasizing the complexities of an issue makes for a deeper, more satisfying story.


[Edited on 06.09.2009 2:39 PM PDT]

  • 06.09.2009 2:36 PM PDT

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