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This topic has moved here: Subject: Reach MP - This is what NEEDs to happen
  • Subject: Reach MP - This is what NEEDs to happen
Subject: Reach MP - This is what NEEDs to happen

Multiplayer has always been a huge part of the Halo franchise. Gamers who have been with the series since its inception have seen the gameplay move from a faster paced game of quick wits, dexterous fingers, and careful planning to a slower paced, almost exclusively team-based, game of positioning rather than player ability.

The change was applauded by some and criticized by others, and the ultimate goal was always apparent; make the game more accessible and appeal to a newer audience. Well, I think its time the franchise moved forward from the hand-holding era into the gamer era. The vast majority of Reach players will be players who have now experience at least one Halo game, and the mechanics, controls and gameplay should be second nature by now. I believe its time for the gameplay to reach new heights by striking a balance between individual ability and team-based gameplay. The game can still remain easily accessible to newer players, but it won't do so to the exclusion of gamers looking for a more challenging MP experience.

The following changes would be beneficial to every player of Halo; the changes would open up the game, challenge players, and provide a more rewarding, lasting experience for everyone.


A) Longer range on all weapons : in Halo 3, combat was almost exclusively close-quarters. No weapon aside from the Sniper Rifles and Lasers could effectively damage an opponent outside of even moderate ranges. Increasing the ranges of all weapons will open up the gameplay to incorporate every aspect of the levels. Close range weapons will still have a prominent role, they just wont have all the focus like they currently do.

B) A Mid-Range Weapon : The BR was the mid-range standard for Halo 3. The problem is, it was hardly "mid-range" and it had a few other serious problems. I would like to see a single shot weapon that can effectively damage enemies at long ranges. Yes, I know many of you think this would lead to overuse of the weapon, but if balanced correctly (i.e. its very hard to use at long ranges, not random, just very hard) it would work just fine and would open up gameplay immensely.

C) Less Aim Assist : In Halo 3, AR bullets would literally curve through the air to hit their opponents. The AR! One of the bullet hoses of the game, with a large reticle that already made hitting your opponent easy enough had ridiculous bullet and reticle magnetism. The Rocket Launcher, splash damage machine, had ridiculous rocket magnetism, which caused the rockets to physically curve towards the opponent. Most of the time, the rocket curve was a huge annoyance. These types of Aim Assist are completely unnecessary and only serve to lower the skill curve of the game. A small amount of reticle and bullet magnetism is all that is needed on the weapons, at most.

D) Fixed Melee : There is absolutely no reason for a 90 degree lunge or aim assist on melees. If I'm looking at an enemy and I'm within 10 feet or so, I should land the melee. What shouldn't happen is me meleeing when I see the enemy out of the corner of my eye or below me and have my character flip 100 degrees, lunge 20 feet and curve through the air and land the melee. Thats ridiculous and is one of the main reasons Halo 2 and Halo 3's close quarters combat is so terrible. Also, I don't want a "window of opportunity" for everyone to counter melee like we have in Halo 3. Lets just accept the fact that online, the host will have certain advantages, melee being one of the more significant. I'd rather have one host player have a small advantage than have everyone be saddled by a lame melee system. If we made melee's require actually aiming at the enemy to hit, the host advantage wouldn't be as big of a deal anyway.

E) Fall Damage : Fall damage, not only from a logistical standpoint in terms of the armor, should be standard in Reach's MP. Fall Damage forces players to think and plan their actions more carefully rather than throw themselves around with reckless abandon. A small slip-up could be fatal, and it adds a new dimension to levels and how players move about them. Additionally, the crouch land should be included as a way to prevent full fall damage on impact.

F) Faster Kill Speed : In recent Halo games, the majority of the weapons had a very slow kill speed. What I mean by that is that it generally took around two seconds to kill one opponent, assuming every shot hits. Two seconds may not sound like a long time, but in terms of a MP game, it makes a huge difference. It allows players with poor positioning and planning to easily escape from their situations just by running away. Weapons need to have the ability to kill a little quicker in Reach (although it should be much more difficult to land all the shots). I'm not asking for one shot kills with every weapon, I just want battles to be more intense and require greater awareness rather than a slow draw out affair where one opponent simply starts running away.

G) Faster Strafe Speed : Halo 3 had a myriad of customization options, including player speed. While I always applaud more customization options, there was one large problem with this one. Increasing the speed did not change the strafe speed, and there was no option to do so. Strafing needs to be a quick, precise motion rather than a slow, lumbering, easy-to-follow movement. The default strafe speed should be higher, or at least have the option to increase it.

H) No Dual Wielding : Dual wielding has been attempted in the past two Halo games and each time it has felt unsatisfying, unfun, and leads to a slew of other problems. The most significant is the "half-weapon" syndrome, which Bungie attempted to fix in Halo 3. Dual wielding also prevents weapons from having unique, powerful features. The most blatant would be the removal of the plasma freeze. In order to keep plasma weapons, which are dual-weildable, balance, Bungie couldn't keep their freezing property in or it would be overpowered. So they tossed it in an effort to push dual-wielding. Which leads me to my next point....

I) Return of Plasma Freeze : We need to see unique weapons return to Halo MP, rather than just a large amount of cloned, uninspired, unused weapons. The plasma freeze added a very unique feel and use to the plasma weapons in Halo CE. The plasma rifle was preferable to even the shotgun in some applications instead of a largely unused spam weapon it is now. Without the freeze, the plasma weapons are relegated to second class weapons, serving only one or two worthwhile purposes.

J) Wider FOV : The FOV has gotten progressively smaller with each new Halo game. The only logical reason for this would be to lower the amount of rendering the engine does. However, I would gladly sacrifce all the superfluous elements of the maps (camping stools, barrels, shrubbery, 3d skyboxes, etc) for better gameplay (i.e. wider FOV). A wider FOV enables players to see a more realistic view of the battlefield and removes the tunnel vision dizziness that many players experienced with Halo 2 and Halo 3.

K) Balanced Vehicles : Requiring players to have a specific, cumbersome, slow weapon to even have a remote chance of posing a threat to vehicles is unbalanced, unfun and just plain ridiculous. Vehicles should be a viable option, but they shouldn't be domininant, overpowered killing machines that rule the battlefield.

Well, thats it for now. Just a brief list of things that should be changed for the game to evolve to new levels. If you disagree with any of them, let me know and I'd love to chat about it with you.

  • 06.09.2009 2:03 PM PDT
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I am 1337

Agree with most of it. Good job.

  • 06.09.2009 2:07 PM PDT

It's like a retard riding a bicycle while eating hot wings.
Sometimes you have to take the bike seat off to really enjoy it.

I agree with most of it.
1. The strafe I don't understand, I really haven't felt a difference with higher speed's slow strafe.

2. Vehicles are vehicles, some vehicles should be tuned down, like the warthog turret. But I believe that they tuned down the tanks, which were the main problem. The Scorpion machine gun turret is no longer controlled by the driver and requires good communication if there is a passenger, same thing with the Wraith. Also, the Wraith is no longer easy to control, and the boost time has been lowered down.

3. What are you talking about with Plasma freeze time?

4. Dual wielding was never really a problem to me, in Halo 2 the Plasma pistol with SMG or Magnum or whatever was overpowered. In Halo 3 they made the Heat seeking range inside the reticle only and slower turning time making it easier to dodge. Plus dual wielding really isn't strong. The only over powered combo was the SMG/Plasma Rifle combo.

5. Fall damage could ruin the gameplay. Whether you're messing around or found a new spot, it could destroy Halo's feeling. Halo is like what Cliify B. described he said something like this "Games where you can jump around like cracked up bunny rabbits." that would destroy that mobile feeling that Halo has. It was in Halo 1, and I'm glad they took it out.

I pretty much agree with everything else.

[Edited on 06.09.2009 2:31 PM PDT]

  • 06.09.2009 2:24 PM PDT

...

Good things you bring up here OP. But whats your stance on Halo 3's frames per second? Maybe 60 for Reach?

[Edited on 06.09.2009 2:26 PM PDT]

  • 06.09.2009 2:25 PM PDT
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A) I'd like it if all weapons got a range increase this would decrease dependency on melee. Although that could easily ruin the sword and gravity hammer. The sword could get a lunge range increase/require more stealth and The hammer most likely won't be in the game.

D) I'd like the Halo CE melee system.

E) Absolutely no fall damage. We are Spartans, in the books they jumped from a ship and only broke bones. It would also ruin the gameplay.

F) I agree as long as we get both the faster kill speed and less auto-aim.

H) If dual wielding were remove it would be a must for weapons to be more unique, like plasma slowing you down. I enjoy dual wielding and it is pretty effective, although with the range increase you mentioned it would be less effective.

J) FOV was never a concern of mine.

K) Vehicles should dominate the open outside areas of the map, that is their jobs.

[Edited on 06.09.2009 3:12 PM PDT]

  • 06.09.2009 3:11 PM PDT
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All I do is play halo. :D

Except, not everyone is a halo pro here. All of this is just going too far.

  • 06.09.2009 3:16 PM PDT
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I do not appreciate B.Net Group solicitation. If you ignore this and send me an invitation anyway, I will block communications with you.

E shouldn't have included the bit about the armor. MJOLNIR Mk. V and above suits are equipped with a layer of hydrostatic gel which conforms to the user's body and pressurizes to cushion the wearer from blunt impacts, including falls. It is surmised that the Mk. VI variant's suit was upgraded to have auto-pressurizing hydrostatic gel, which could explain the absence of fall damage in Halo 2 and Halo 3, but that would mean that the Spartans in Mk. V armor, who had to manually pressurize their hydrostatic gel (likely via their neural connections to the suit), were too stupid to do during Halo: Combat Evolved.

Regardless, I don't think they would backtrack to an outdated (as far as their franchise goes) mechanic that was removed for good reason.

  • 06.09.2009 3:18 PM PDT

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I actually disagree with most of what you just said. I think Halo 3 is about as good as it gets.

The single shot, long range, non sniper weapon you are looking for is called the carbine.

I think fall damage would make matchmaking games less reckless, but it would just get in the way of the rest of the game.

But the aim assist is incredibly annoying when you actually know what you are doing with a weapon and you don't need help.

[Edited on 06.09.2009 4:03 PM PDT]

  • 06.09.2009 3:33 PM PDT

Posted by: Mooreiuz V
Good things you bring up here OP. But whats your stance on Halo 3's frames per second? Maybe 60 for Reach?


Yes, Halo 3's frames per second is awful, everytime I get on Halo after some COD games I feel as if I'm playing in slow motion. Bungie really needs to increase the frames per second for Reach.

  • 06.09.2009 3:39 PM PDT

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I agree with most of what you said but I don't think they game speed needs to be tweaked. If it got any faster it would turn into Unreal Tournament.

I really, really miss the plasma stun effect from Halo:CE and I agree it should be brought back into the games. It really added another layer of tactics and it was fun playing with weapons that weren't just clones of the UNSC weapons. I am sure you would have problems balancing the plasma weapons if they did bring it back but I think its doable.

  • 06.09.2009 3:40 PM PDT

IM A LEGIT 16

Reach MP - This is what I WANT to happen

Sorry, but it really looks that way.

Not everyone likes to have BR fights or Snipeouts

Being able to run away is a reasonable advantage to long range fighting, if you are fighting close quarters you should be able to catch up with them.

Dual wielding is fine, and could you tell me what Plasma Freeze is? I don't remember anything special about plasma in CE, but I could be wrong.

Vechicles require teamwork and co-ordination to take down, they are fine the way they are.

I don't find anything wrong with the FOV

Fall damage would just get in the way of fighting

The aim assist isn't that bad

Melee is fine, as long as you keep your distance, you're fine

I don't notice a difference between the Frames/second in Halo and COD, here you are being nitpicky

Forgive me for not numbering them, I'm tired.

[Edited on 06.09.2009 3:49 PM PDT]

  • 06.09.2009 3:45 PM PDT

What would you do if you were Shishka for 24 hours?
Posted by: I Stey0x I
Be less fat.
Posted by: Shishka
I can't help it. Your mom makes such a big breakfast when we wake up every morning.

Honestly, it just sounds like you described Halo:CE's multiplayer.

  • 06.09.2009 3:49 PM PDT

"YOUR DESTRUCTION IS THE WILL OF THE GODS, AND WE ARE THEIR INSTRUMENT."

I agree with points A,B,C,D, and J.
Dual wielding should not be taken out, But i do believe most Plasma weapons deserve more power.For taking out shields they're fine, but for some reason they just can't kill. Which makes no sense. I don't know what plasma freeze is, i'll have to look it up. The vehicles are vehicles. They SHOULD dominate. I do hope they implement more non-vehicular maps, however.

  • 06.09.2009 3:50 PM PDT

Posted by: FxA Grunteer
I agree with most of it.
1. The strafe I don't understand, I really haven't felt a difference with higher speed's slow strafe.


The strafe in Halo 3 is incredibly slow. There is no difference in strafe speed when you change player speeds, thats why its a problem.

Posted by: FxA Grunteer
3. What are you talking about with Plasma freeze time?


In Halo 1, the plasm rifle and plasma pistol had an effect that "froze" the enemy for a faction of a second with each hit. It essentially made movement and turning difficult. It was very unique property that, combined with the plasma weapons ability to take down shields, made it a very useful weapon in the right hands.

Posted by: FxA Grunteer
4. Dual wielding was never really a problem to me, in Halo 2 the Plasma pistol with SMG or Magnum or whatever was overpowered. In Halo 3 they made the Heat seeking range inside the reticle only and slower turning time making it easier to dodge. Plus dual wielding really isn't strong. The only over powered combo was the SMG/Plasma Rifle combo.


Would you rather have a lot of dual-wield combos that are all essentially the same, or several unique weapons that can't be dual-wielded, but they actually added some depth and dimension to the gameplay?

Posted by: FxA Grunteer
5. Fall damage could ruin the gameplay. Whether you're messing around or found a new spot, it could destroy Halo's feeling. Halo is like what Cliify B. described he said something like this "Games where you can jump around like cracked up bunny rabbits." that would destroy that mobile feeling that Halo has. It was in Halo 1, and I'm glad they took it out.


It doesn't destroy the mobility of Halo, it enhances it. It makes being mobile around the levels more of an art and less of a blind throw off a cliff.




Posted by: Mooreiuz V
Good things you bring up here OP. But whats your stance on Halo 3's frames per second? Maybe 60 for Reach?


Obviously 60 FPS is preferable, and I would sacrifice some graphical integrity to obtain it, but the FOV is much more important to me.


Posted by: Insane Brandon
A) I'd like it if all weapons got a range increase this would decrease dependency on melee. Although that could easily ruin the sword and gravity hammer. The sword could get a lunge range increase/require more stealth and The hammer most likely won't be in the game.


The sword and other close range weapons would still be very powerful in close-range situations.


Posted by: Insane Brandon
D) I'd like the Halo CE melee system. .

As would I; it was predicatable and player-controlled.

Posted by: Insane Brandon
E) Absolutely no fall damage. We are Spartans, in the books they jumped from a ship and only broke bones. It would also ruin the gameplay.

The gameplay is not dependant upon the books. I don't see how it would "ruin the gameplay" seeing as how it worked fine in the original game. Please, explain.

Posted by: Insane Brandon
F) I agree as long as we get both the faster kill speed and less auto-aim.


Yes, the weapons should kill faster, but they would need to require more skill to do so. Faster movement/strafe speed combined with lowered Auto-Aim would ensure that very few players would be hitting every shot.

Posted by: Insane Brandon
H) If dual wielding were remove it would be a must for weapons to be more unique, like plasma slowing you down. I enjoy dual wielding and it is pretty effective, although with the range increase you mentioned it would be less effective.


Dual wielding is effective, but its not any more effective than a single weild weapon, and it ruins any chance of the single-wield weapons being unique.

Posted by: Insane Brandon
J) FOV was never a concern of mine.


Would you not want it larger?

Posted by: Insane Brandon
K) Vehicles should dominate the open outside areas of the map, that is their jobs.

Yes, thats their job, but they shouldn't be automatic killing machines they are right now. Infintry players should be able to, with skill, kill the driver or passenger of the vehicle, or at the very least flip their vehicle with a well-placed grenade.

Posted by: Rockeraven
Except, not everyone is a halo pro here. All of this is just going too far.


How so? All of the changes apply to everyone. The leveling system would ensure that newer players only play with newer players.

Posted by: Spartan999
I actually disagree with most of what you just said. I think Halo 3 is about as good as it gets.

Then I guess you aren't looking forward to Halo Reach, seeing as how it can't possibly be better than Halo 3.

Posted by: Spartan999
The single shot, long range, non sniper weapon you are looking for is called the carbine.


There's a multitude of reasons why the Carbine does not fill that role. One of which is that it is grossly inaccurate at even medium ranges. Its rate of fire is too high, and its damage is too low.

Posted by: Spartan999
I think fall damage would make matchmaking games less reckless, but it would just get in the way of the rest of the game.


How so?

[Edited on 06.09.2009 3:59 PM PDT]

  • 06.09.2009 3:52 PM PDT

I agree with most of your points, however, I would like to add my opinion to some:

A) Weapon range is relative. I think it was nicely balanced in Halo3. Though, it may change for Reach since we may see more open and bigger battlefields.

C) Holy crap I couldn't agree more! I have to put some emphasis on this: BUNGIE! Remove any kind of aim assist on the Rocket Launcher! Seriously!

H) Seeing DW'ing completely disappear would be some kind of a let down. It is such a great feature with a lot of potential. I think it was OK in Halo3, but it can be improved for Reach. Maybe Bungie could add certain advantages for special weapon combos. For example, if you dual wield PR/SMG you would lose the stun effect, but you would gain a vehicle damage bonus.

K) To be honest, vehicles how they appear in Halo3 are perfectly balanced. Neglecting the former Hornet and the Prowler, I would say that Bungie did a great job at expanding the sandbox while keeping a great gameplay.

  • 06.09.2009 3:56 PM PDT
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Posted by: DK daze
Dude I don't care and my grammer is perfect.I used "Big", as you recall it to mak is specific."to not do...",is incorrect beause "do" is present tense/perfect(or future) when it was a past tense.

I mostly agree, except with F and H. Maybe a slightly faster kill speed would be fine, but I always felt that the slower kill speed is what made halo take skill, and not have it depend on who sees the other first.
I love dual wields, and maybe I'm the only one, in which case I apologize and humbly demand that it at least be a setting that you can turn on/off.

  • 06.09.2009 4:01 PM PDT

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Posted by: TheBigShow
Posted by: Spartan999
I think fall damage would make matchmaking games less reckless, but it would just get in the way of the rest of the game.


How so?


While making crazy forge maps and exploring campaign environments, you would always have to worry about dying from a fall or intentional jump.

And I don't understand how me thinking that Halo 3 is the best one so far (in the MM aspect) means that I am not looking forward to Halo Reach. It could always be improved upon in ways we wont see coming.

  • 06.09.2009 4:09 PM PDT

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  • 06.09.2009 4:14 PM PDT

Posted by: Spartan999

While making crazy forge maps and exploring campaign environments, you would always have to worry about dying from a fall or intentional jump.

And I don't understand how me thinking that Halo 3 is the best one so far (in the MM aspect) means that I am not looking forward to Halo Reach. It could always be improved upon in ways we wont see coming.


You can switch to a flying monitor in Forge, so fall damage is inconsequential. You still die in Halo 3 campaign from falling in places.


You said " I think Halo 3 is about as good as it gets," which means it can't get better. Which means you must think Halo Reach will be worse. Apparently you didn't actually mean "Halo 3 is about as good as it gets."

[Edited on 06.09.2009 4:21 PM PDT]

  • 06.09.2009 4:20 PM PDT

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I agree with all of it basically. I miss the competitive and fun atmosphere Halo:CE provided. It was a face paced shooter that still managed to appeal to everyone, even the less skilled at it. Halo:CE had a larger skill gap between players and that makes it fun.

With an online ranking system that matches you up against people of your own skill, I never have been able to understand why Bungie has made their games more casual oriented. I think part of it has to do with the ability to make new accounts and flood the lower levels and ruin their fun by having really good members at lower ranks. That I do see as a problem, however it could be fixed potentially. Furthermore, i think they fear those who derank being able to massacre the lower ranks. This kept them from making it have a bigger skill gap since those at lower ranks could be consistently dominated.

So, make a system that matches people up based on the age of the account and make a system that also works to avoid derankers getting matched up against anyone but other derankers. Would it be difficult? Yeah, a bit more complicated. But still, I think it could be managed...

  • 06.09.2009 4:23 PM PDT

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  • 06.09.2009 4:30 PM PDT

Posted by: x Lord Revan x
I agree with all of it basically. I miss the competitive and fun atmosphere Halo:CE provided. It was a face paced shooter that still managed to appeal to everyone, even the less skilled at it. Halo:CE had a larger skill gap between players and that makes it fun.

With an online ranking system that matches you up against people of your own skill, I never have been able to understand why Bungie has made their games more casual oriented. I think part of it has to do with the ability to make new accounts and flood the lower levels and ruin their fun by having really good members at lower ranks. That I do see as a problem, however it could be fixed potentially. Furthermore, i think they fear those who derank being able to massacre the lower ranks. This kept them from making it have a bigger skill gap since those at lower ranks could be consistently dominated.

So, make a system that matches people up based on the age of the account and make a system that also works to avoid derankers getting matched up against anyone but other derankers. Would it be difficult? Yeah, a bit more complicated. But still, I think it could be managed...


Exactly.

Why make a ranking system and them make the game with a smaller skill gap? That just muddles the ranking system and makes it pointless.

I don't think de-rankers and second accounters are that big of a problem. Certainly not a big enough problem to warrant dumbing the game down protect newer players.

  • 06.09.2009 4:30 PM PDT

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Posted by: Toxik King
Dual wielding is fine, and could you tell me what Plasma Freeze is? I don't remember anything special about plasma in CE, but I could be wrong.


It slowed you down. Movement speed and looking speed.

Posted by: Toxik King
I don't notice a difference between the Frames/second in Halo and COD, here you are being nitpicky


There is a fairly HUGE difference between the two games. Go play COD4 and look around with the right thumb stick for a few minutes, or play an entire game, even. Then go play Halo 3. There is a fairly huge difference. Or even try going from H2>H3 instead of COD4>H3.

STOP! PERSONAL ATTACK TIME!
Oh, and to me, it doesn't sound like you play games serious enough, so it wouldn't surprise me if you didn't notice the two things I just pointed out.

Personally, it makes me sad to have Halo 3 feel so slow. :'(

  • 06.09.2009 4:30 PM PDT
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Total agree with every point.

Oh and Bungie should see that the AR is not the ultimate starting weapon they thought it would be in halo 3. The fact that the pistol got added as a secondary weapon and even the fact that their is something like team brs show that the AR is not perfect as a starting weapon.
With the MId Range One Shot weapon you talked about as a starting weapon the focus would be more on mid range combat, but since you have weapons lieing around the map in halo you could still pick up close combat weapons like the ar.
But a Weapon like the one you would descripe would work in long, mid and close range but their would be still special weapons that are better for each range (shotgun; sniper rifle etc.). That way the weapon would really be perfect as a starting weapon. Their would be no need for team brs or any change to the starting weapon. And since other weapons would be better for certain ranges it would still support more weapons being used.

  • 06.09.2009 4:38 PM PDT

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I agree with almost everything here.

In fact I just posted on a thread saying vehicles were too weak, I find the vehicles in halo 3 very balanced...

Also dual wielding better be included... Unless we aren't playing Spartans(which is highly unlikely) and since we are going to a time that was before halo 1, I hope(like Halo 1 and ODST) that you will have to find health packs.

Finally I don't see a problem with FOV...

[Edited on 06.09.2009 4:43 PM PDT]

  • 06.09.2009 4:40 PM PDT