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  • Subject: Reach MP - This is what NEEDs to happen
Subject: Reach MP - This is what NEEDs to happen
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Posted by: TheBigShow
Multiplayer has always been a huge part of the Halo franchise. Gamers who have been with the series since its inception have seen the gameplay move from a faster paced game of quick wits, dexterous fingers, and careful planning to a slower paced, almost exclusively team-based, game of positioning rather than player ability.

The change was applauded by some and criticized by others, and the ultimate goal was always apparent; make the game more accessible and appeal to a newer audience. Well, I think its time the franchise moved forward from the hand-holding era into the gamer era. The vast majority of Reach players will be players who have now experience at least one Halo game, and the mechanics, controls and gameplay should be second nature by now. I believe its time for the gameplay to reach new heights by striking a balance between individual ability and team-based gameplay. The game can still remain easily accessible to newer players, but it won't do so to the exclusion of gamers looking for a more challenging MP experience.

The following changes would be beneficial to every player of Halo; the changes would open up the game, challenge players, and provide a more rewarding, lasting experience for everyone.


A) Longer range on all weapons : in Halo 3, combat was almost exclusively close-quarters. No weapon aside from the Sniper Rifles and Lasers could effectively damage an opponent outside of even moderate ranges. Increasing the ranges of all weapons will open up the gameplay to incorporate every aspect of the levels. Close range weapons will still have a prominent role, they just wont have all the focus like they currently do.

B) A Mid-Range Weapon : The BR was the mid-range standard for Halo 3. The problem is, it was hardly "mid-range" and it had a few other serious problems. I would like to see a single shot weapon that can effectively damage enemies at long ranges. Yes, I know many of you think this would lead to overuse of the weapon, but if balanced correctly (i.e. its very hard to use at long ranges, not random, just very hard) it would work just fine and would open up gameplay immensely.

C) Less Aim Assist : In Halo 3, AR bullets would literally curve through the air to hit their opponents. The AR! One of the bullet hoses of the game, with a large reticle that already made hitting your opponent easy enough had ridiculous bullet and reticle magnetism. The Rocket Launcher, splash damage machine, had ridiculous rocket magnetism, which caused the rockets to physically curve towards the opponent. Most of the time, the rocket curve was a huge annoyance. These types of Aim Assist are completely unnecessary and only serve to lower the skill curve of the game. A small amount of reticle and bullet magnetism is all that is needed on the weapons, at most.

D) Fixed Melee : There is absolutely no reason for a 90 degree lunge or aim assist on melees. If I'm looking at an enemy and I'm within 10 feet or so, I should land the melee. What shouldn't happen is me meleeing when I see the enemy out of the corner of my eye or below me and have my character flip 100 degrees, lunge 20 feet and curve through the air and land the melee. Thats ridiculous and is one of the main reasons Halo 2 and Halo 3's close quarters combat is so terrible. Also, I don't want a "window of opportunity" for everyone to counter melee like we have in Halo 3. Lets just accept the fact that online, the host will have certain advantages, melee being one of the more significant. I'd rather have one host player have a small advantage than have everyone be saddled by a lame melee system. If we made melee's require actually aiming at the enemy to hit, the host advantage wouldn't be as big of a deal anyway.

E) Fall Damage : Fall damage, not only from a logistical standpoint in terms of the armor, should be standard in Reach's MP. Fall Damage forces players to think and plan their actions more carefully rather than throw themselves around with reckless abandon. A small slip-up could be fatal, and it adds a new dimension to levels and how players move about them. Additionally, the crouch land should be included as a way to prevent full fall damage on impact.

F) Faster Kill Speed : In recent Halo games, the majority of the weapons had a very slow kill speed. What I mean by that is that it generally took around two seconds to kill one opponent, assuming every shot hits. Two seconds may not sound like a long time, but in terms of a MP game, it makes a huge difference. It allows players with poor positioning and planning to easily escape from their situations just by running away. Weapons need to have the ability to kill a little quicker in Reach (although it should be much more difficult to land all the shots). I'm not asking for one shot kills with every weapon, I just want battles to be more intense and require greater awareness rather than a slow draw out affair where one opponent simply starts running away.

G) Faster Strafe Speed : Halo 3 had a myriad of customization options, including player speed. While I always applaud more customization options, there was one large problem with this one. Increasing the speed did not change the strafe speed, and there was no option to do so. Strafing needs to be a quick, precise motion rather than a slow, lumbering, easy-to-follow movement. The default strafe speed should be higher, or at least have the option to increase it.

H) No Dual Wielding : Dual wielding has been attempted in the past two Halo games and each time it has felt unsatisfying, unfun, and leads to a slew of other problems. The most significant is the "half-weapon" syndrome, which Bungie attempted to fix in Halo 3. Dual wielding also prevents weapons from having unique, powerful features. The most blatant would be the removal of the plasma freeze. In order to keep plasma weapons, which are dual-weildable, balance, Bungie couldn't keep their freezing property in or it would be overpowered. So they tossed it in an effort to push dual-wielding. Which leads me to my next point....

I) Return of Plasma Freeze : We need to see unique weapons return to Halo MP, rather than just a large amount of cloned, uninspired, unused weapons. The plasma freeze added a very unique feel and use to the plasma weapons in Halo CE. The plasma rifle was preferable to even the shotgun in some applications instead of a largely unused spam weapon it is now. Without the freeze, the plasma weapons are relegated to second class weapons, serving only one or two worthwhile purposes.

J) Wider FOV : The FOV has gotten progressively smaller with each new Halo game. The only logical reason for this would be to lower the amount of rendering the engine does. However, I would gladly sacrifce all the superfluous elements of the maps (camping stools, barrels, shrubbery, 3d skyboxes, etc) for better gameplay (i.e. wider FOV). A wider FOV enables players to see a more realistic view of the battlefield and removes the tunnel vision dizziness that many players experienced with Halo 2 and Halo 3.

K) Balanced Vehicles : Requiring players to have a specific, cumbersome, slow weapon to even have a remote chance of posing a threat to vehicles is unbalanced, unfun and just plain ridiculous. Vehicles should be a viable option, but they shouldn't be domininant, overpowered killing machines that rule the battlefield.

Well, thats it for now. Just a brief list of things that should be changed for the game to evolve to new levels. If you disagree with any of them, let me know and I'd love to chat about it with you.


I agree 100%. People that disagree probably dont know what theyre talking about.

  • 06.10.2009 9:29 PM PDT
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Posted by: killtrocity20
Guess what? Bungie would never listen to you. These are all stupid ideas, and you are an idiot for wasting your time typing that list of nonsense up.
Care to explain how his ideas are stupid? Because it seems that quite a bit of people agree with him, including me.



To TheBigShow: I agree with you. It's about time Halo returns to its roots. Some people will say, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". Well, Halo 1 didn't need to be fixed. I'm just going to post my opinion on a couple of points.

A) Agreed. I mean, what was the purpose of focusing Halo 3 mainly on CQC? It doesn't make good gameplay. There are just way too many CQB weapons, and a lot of them are just clones of the Assault Rifle. Especially, with the huge lunge on a melee and the ridiculous damage it does, it makes me wonder if this is a First Person Shooter or a First Person Boxer.

E) Fall damage needs to return. It makes you think before you act. You didn't just go around on Hang 'Em High battling someone up top and then jumping off when you're shields were low, like what happened on Tombstone in Halo 2.

H) Let's be honest people, how many times have you seen someone dual wield in Halo 3 and actually survive for more than a minute. Dual-wielding was an interesting concept, but it just didn't take off, not in my experience. Dual-wielding removed many unique properties of the some weapons, like the freeze effect on plasma weapons, in favor for a bigger sandbox of weapons. Many of these are just clones of the AR. And as TheBigShow said, would rather have a huge array of weapons that are clones of another weapon, or a more limited array of weapons with depth and unique properties?

I) Agreed, it would actually give plasma weapons a purpose again.

J) I for one, have noticed the FOV change throughout the games. I hate the tunnel vision of Halo 2 and 3, it makes me sick. I always have to change my TV settings to Widescreen to get a more tolerable FOV. Humans have a FOV of 180 degrees, and if you take a look at a Spartan's helmet, it doesn't look like it reduces much of it.

And one more thing) Someone previously said that the reticule should be moved back to the center of the screen. I agree with that, I mean, there's no reason why it shouldn't be at the center.



[Edited on 06.10.2009 9:30 PM PDT]

  • 06.10.2009 9:29 PM PDT

Bungie. He's completely right. This will apeal to the hardcore fans who've followed you since H:CE, Force More recent players to accually think instead of just using spray and pray and jump, and appeal to new players looking for some interesting gameplay. Also for the fall damage, ther should at the least be an option for it so that people who want it(me) can turn it on for real fun gameplay.

And to the people who say Fall Damage would ruin gameplay. You're probably the people that just go jumping around noth thinking about what you're doing. Fall damage would make you think more and would give a more hardcore/tactical/strategic/interesting feel to the gameplay.

[Edited on 06.10.2009 9:51 PM PDT]

  • 06.10.2009 9:43 PM PDT
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The one thing that seems ridiculous is that plasma weapons lost there ability to kill on their own. They are strictly for shield weakening and dual wield combos.

  • 06.10.2009 9:52 PM PDT

@Helveck

Just an Average Joe...

Very, VERY well written and justified buddy. While I do not agree with some of the stuff you mention in your OP. The way I look at it, is that Bungie tries things, and if they fail, they typically learn, and listen to their fans... So I'm assuming we should see a rather large improvement to an already incredible multiplayer experience.

  • 06.10.2009 10:16 PM PDT

I definitely agree.

I also think that if the killing speed of the weapons were upped but the Vehicle's weapons weren't it may balance out the vehicles a little.

I still think vehicles should have a clear advantage over ground forces, although a nicely placed nade or shots around the windshield should do the job.

  • 06.10.2009 11:07 PM PDT

Jump feet first into hell!

Oh and to OP , the BigShow.
You asked how come i want halo combat evolved gameplay when i believe vehicles have it tough in halo 3.


Simply because even if the vehicles were weaker in halo combat evolved there was nothing so difficult to counter such as the laser and the missile pod.

Everything could be countered.Good driving?You can dodge grenades for quite some time.Bad driving?You get flipped and chances are you die.

That is how it is supposed to be.

  • 06.11.2009 1:57 AM PDT
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B and C.

You can't have both, it simply won't work online. There are amazing things as far as internet technology, but you can't have the br be like it was in halo 2 with less aim assist. No connection is perfect, and they want a game that plays well online. Besides you want other people to be able to pick up the game and be able to handle it. They want to draw a larger crowd not slim it down.

One of the biggest problems had to do with the clipping problems with halo 3. Logic leans towards the problems with clipping came from lessening the auto aim. Not proven but my betting money would go that way.

  • 06.11.2009 2:10 AM PDT
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Posted by: GLADIAT0R1
Agree with most of it. Good job.

  • 06.11.2009 2:30 AM PDT
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Yeah, I'd like to just play a Halo CE with the new sexy graphics and more weapons as well :-) But hey hey hey hey can I PLEASE GET SOME INPUT ON THIS IDEA

Does ANYONE remember how grenades in Halo CE worked? They HAD to be ON the ground in order to explode, made them extremely unique to Halo in my opinion, honestly, those grenades actually MADE the Halo experience HALO to me back when the original came out, as well as the pistol of course.

  • 06.11.2009 2:43 AM PDT
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I agree with a lot of what is in the first post. It is just a few things I differ in opinion on.
I dont think the Warthog Machine Gun Turret needs changing. As far as I am concerned it is great. All you need is a well placed frag or sticky and its flipped or dead. Heck sometimes you can flip them with BRs. The machine gun turret isn't some intant kill machine it takes at least a couple seconds and some steady aim, along with a good enough driver to get you the angles you need. NTM it doesn't have that good of a range, keeping it balanced. The standard warthog is good in my book.

The Gauss Hog is completely different story though. It's a long range sniper rifle on steroids. I suck with it and even I have gotten killionaires with it. Way over powered, and hard to stop without a surprise laser or rocket. It simply needs to go.

The prowler on the other hand is just plain useless. Difficult to control when driving, I end up running over my own team as much as the other. It's turret is way underpowered. And there is now boost AT ALL. Bring back the Spectre from H2. That was a fun vehicle to use.

The Wraith is fine the way it is. Maybe give you some better speed for turning. The Scorpion needs some tuning up though. It is overpowered half of the time then underpowered the other half. Sometimes you fire a round at someone's chest and they live. Other times a round hits 20 feet away and you die. I think it should react more like a tank. If you take out 2 or more of its tracks it should stop dead. If you laser the engine or driver compartment it should die.

The mongoose is great, I just wish it was a little more stable. The ghost is awesome. The banshee should be a little faster to get away from missile pods. But a;so a little more suseptible to ground fire. Like in CE on the first level on the ring. I loved shooting down the banshees with a pistol or AR. You didn't need heavy weapons to take down a light air vehicle.

I would like to see the addition of the transport hog into MM. It'd make for a lot of fun. It would also make for intant multikills if you aren't careful with it lol.

The hornet is fine as it is. Having two types for different situations.

Thats my take on the vehicles.

  • 06.11.2009 3:04 AM PDT

[As of October 2012]
2013 ADFA Officer Cadet of the RAAF (Aerospace Engineer Electronics Officer).

I'm sorry but I disagree with nearly everything in the OP, dual wielding is something that some of us actually use, just get rid of the gametype from Reach's matchmaking.

Wider FOV - maybe...

Straff speed does increase with normal walking speed, pop walk speed up to 300% and straff to see the difference.

Faster kill speed, no thanks, this just helps to worsen lag, I think it's currently either perfect or perhaps slightly too fast.

I don't think we need fall damage, Spartans can survive drops from aircraft without parachutes, etc so I don't think that falling 15m would do all that much damage, especially seeing as some normal humans in real life can surive such falls quite easily.

I think melee's fine except for those very rare occasions when you lunge 30m through the air at an enemy. If a was standing in front of you 10m away in real life, do you doubt that you could run up to them and whack them? The vertical lunges are a bit off but the canon spartans could jump 3m easily so who knows.

For auto-aim, I think it should remain but with the option to disable (to COD-like levels) but have it be normally lessened a bit, I find it a bit annoying when I'm trying to snipe someone when suddenly someone runs across my field of view and pulls my aim away from my target's head.

I think you're quite off with the BR, it is a very common weapon and it is fairly long range with it being a helpful anti-sniper weapon as long as your enemy isn't a god with it *coughDreamkiller123cough*. Single shot would be good though, it'd end the spray arguments & if they had it like in the Halo 2 demo it'd kick ass even more.

[Edited on 06.11.2009 3:28 AM PDT]

  • 06.11.2009 3:27 AM PDT
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Posted by: TheBigShow
Multiplayer has always been a huge part of the Halo franchise. Gamers who have been with the series since its inception have seen the gameplay move from a faster paced game of quick wits, dexterous fingers, and careful planning to a slower paced, almost exclusively team-based, game of positioning rather than player ability.

The change was applauded by some and criticized by others, and the ultimate goal was always apparent; make the game more accessible and appeal to a newer audience. Well, I think its time the franchise moved forward from the hand-holding era into the gamer era. The vast majority of Reach players will be players who have now experience at least one Halo game, and the mechanics, controls and gameplay should be second nature by now. I believe its time for the gameplay to reach new heights by striking a balance between individual ability and team-based gameplay. The game can still remain easily accessible to newer players, but it won't do so to the exclusion of gamers looking for a more challenging MP experience.

The following changes would be beneficial to every player of Halo; the changes would open up the game, challenge players, and provide a more rewarding, lasting experience for everyone.


A) Longer range on all weapons : in Halo 3, combat was almost exclusively close-quarters. No weapon aside from the Sniper Rifles and Lasers could effectively damage an opponent outside of even moderate ranges. Increasing the ranges of all weapons will open up the gameplay to incorporate every aspect of the levels. Close range weapons will still have a prominent role, they just wont have all the focus like they currently do.

B) A Mid-Range Weapon : The BR was the mid-range standard for Halo 3. The problem is, it was hardly "mid-range" and it had a few other serious problems. I would like to see a single shot weapon that can effectively damage enemies at long ranges. Yes, I know many of you think this would lead to overuse of the weapon, but if balanced correctly (i.e. its very hard to use at long ranges, not random, just very hard) it would work just fine and would open up gameplay immensely.

C) Less Aim Assist : In Halo 3, AR bullets would literally curve through the air to hit their opponents. The AR! One of the bullet hoses of the game, with a large reticle that already made hitting your opponent easy enough had ridiculous bullet and reticle magnetism. The Rocket Launcher, splash damage machine, had ridiculous rocket magnetism, which caused the rockets to physically curve towards the opponent. Most of the time, the rocket curve was a huge annoyance. These types of Aim Assist are completely unnecessary and only serve to lower the skill curve of the game. A small amount of reticle and bullet magnetism is all that is needed on the weapons, at most.

D) Fixed Melee : There is absolutely no reason for a 90 degree lunge or aim assist on melees. If I'm looking at an enemy and I'm within 10 feet or so, I should land the melee. What shouldn't happen is me meleeing when I see the enemy out of the corner of my eye or below me and have my character flip 100 degrees, lunge 20 feet and curve through the air and land the melee. Thats ridiculous and is one of the main reasons Halo 2 and Halo 3's close quarters combat is so terrible. Also, I don't want a "window of opportunity" for everyone to counter melee like we have in Halo 3. Lets just accept the fact that online, the host will have certain advantages, melee being one of the more significant. I'd rather have one host player have a small advantage than have everyone be saddled by a lame melee system. If we made melee's require actually aiming at the enemy to hit, the host advantage wouldn't be as big of a deal anyway.

E) Fall Damage : Fall damage, not only from a logistical standpoint in terms of the armor, should be standard in Reach's MP. Fall Damage forces players to think and plan their actions more carefully rather than throw themselves around with reckless abandon. A small slip-up could be fatal, and it adds a new dimension to levels and how players move about them. Additionally, the crouch land should be included as a way to prevent full fall damage on impact.

F) Faster Kill Speed : In recent Halo games, the majority of the weapons had a very slow kill speed. What I mean by that is that it generally took around two seconds to kill one opponent, assuming every shot hits. Two seconds may not sound like a long time, but in terms of a MP game, it makes a huge difference. It allows players with poor positioning and planning to easily escape from their situations just by running away. Weapons need to have the ability to kill a little quicker in Reach (although it should be much more difficult to land all the shots). I'm not asking for one shot kills with every weapon, I just want battles to be more intense and require greater awareness rather than a slow draw out affair where one opponent simply starts running away.

G) Faster Strafe Speed : Halo 3 had a myriad of customization options, including player speed. While I always applaud more customization options, there was one large problem with this one. Increasing the speed did not change the strafe speed, and there was no option to do so. Strafing needs to be a quick, precise motion rather than a slow, lumbering, easy-to-follow movement. The default strafe speed should be higher, or at least have the option to increase it.

H) No Dual Wielding : Dual wielding has been attempted in the past two Halo games and each time it has felt unsatisfying, unfun, and leads to a slew of other problems. The most significant is the "half-weapon" syndrome, which Bungie attempted to fix in Halo 3. Dual wielding also prevents weapons from having unique, powerful features. The most blatant would be the removal of the plasma freeze. In order to keep plasma weapons, which are dual-weildable, balance, Bungie couldn't keep their freezing property in or it would be overpowered. So they tossed it in an effort to push dual-wielding. Which leads me to my next point....

I) Return of Plasma Freeze : We need to see unique weapons return to Halo MP, rather than just a large amount of cloned, uninspired, unused weapons. The plasma freeze added a very unique feel and use to the plasma weapons in Halo CE. The plasma rifle was preferable to even the shotgun in some applications instead of a largely unused spam weapon it is now. Without the freeze, the plasma weapons are relegated to second class weapons, serving only one or two worthwhile purposes.

J) Wider FOV : The FOV has gotten progressively smaller with each new Halo game. The only logical reason for this would be to lower the amount of rendering the engine does. However, I would gladly sacrifce all the superfluous elements of the maps (camping stools, barrels, shrubbery, 3d skyboxes, etc) for better gameplay (i.e. wider FOV). A wider FOV enables players to see a more realistic view of the battlefield and removes the tunnel vision dizziness that many players experienced with Halo 2 and Halo 3.

K) Balanced Vehicles : Requiring players to have a specific, cumbersome, slow weapon to even have a remote chance of posing a threat to vehicles is unbalanced, unfun and just plain ridiculous. Vehicles should be a viable option, but they shouldn't be domininant, overpowered killing machines that rule the battlefield.

Well, thats it for now. Just a brief list of things that should be changed for the game to evolve to new levels. If you disagree with any of them, let me know and I'd love to chat about it with you.
Why not instead say, "Bow down to MLG and don't listen to anyone else."? I mean, seriously, if they do that I might rethink buying this game, and I don't even think ODST is overpriced. This sounds like something MLG would compile.

  • 06.11.2009 4:57 AM PDT
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I agree with most of your comments big show. I'm currently at work on my iPhone, so will post a proper reply later.

But yes, in my opinion halo 3 isn't that good. Halo 2 was amazing online at first but got worse. I think we want a new game which is in between halo 1 and halo 2. The problem with halo 3 is the slow pace gameplay. It's aimed at a younger audience, "so everyone can play". Bull-blam!-.

The sniper is embarrassingly slow compared to other halo games.

I don't even play halo 3 because I can't stand the bull-blam!- you get, it's boring.

  • 06.11.2009 5:00 AM PDT
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If they remove the BR Halo: Reach will be perfect.

  • 06.11.2009 5:09 AM PDT
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Each one of these would aid in ending Halo machinima as we know it.

  • 06.11.2009 5:20 AM PDT
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Posted by: MadroKurgan
Posted by: Oxford Comma
Posted by: MadroKurgan
To everyone who has not played ALL 3 Halo games extensively and competitively, please do not burden this topic with your ignorant opinions. Thank you.

For starters, THAT's ignorant.

For a main course, Halo is for everyone, which means that we are all free to donate opinions.

How so? Saying what i wrote is ignorant, makes on sense. Do you even know what "ignorance" means? How can anyone give a valid opinion on a subject matter, that they have little to no experience with? THAT IS IGNORANCE. Just like those who have only played Halo 3. They don't know any better - ignorance is bliss. So if you fall under this criteria, please leave your opinion elsewhere - we would rather not have to read it and get stupider by the minute.



Wow, you just ruined your whole argument. Stupider? You sound and act like a retarded baby, crying and whining over a VIDEO GAME. Not a sport, A VIDEO GAME! Your ignorant of the purpose of Halo. It wasn't made for MLG, it was made for everyone. It's not meant to be a sport, it's made to be FUN. That's what you forget. It is meant to be FUN. This is Not HaMLGo, it's Halo. Halo: Reach should be an evolution of Halo 3, not a devolution.

  • 06.11.2009 5:29 AM PDT
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I just figured out what all of you need... a WAAAAAAAHBULANCE!

  • 06.11.2009 5:41 AM PDT
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Posted by: Lethal Hate
Bungie. He's completely right. This will apeal to the hardcore fans who've followed you since H:CE, Force More recent players to accually think instead of just using spray and pray and jump, and appeal to new players looking for some interesting gameplay. Also for the fall damage, ther should at the least be an option for it so that people who want it(me) can turn it on for real fun gameplay.

And to the people who say Fall Damage would ruin gameplay. You're probably the people that just go jumping around noth thinking about what you're doing. Fall damage would make you think more and would give a more hardcore/tactical/strategic/interesting feel to the gameplay.
I've played since Halo: Combat Evolved. I've read the books, and I regularly help Halopedia. I find all of his ideas useless. Haven't you noticed, no employees come here or to the ODST forum. So, why bother? Bungie won't listen anyways.

  • 06.11.2009 5:47 AM PDT

Lol.
Lmao.
Rofl.
Roflmao.
Roflcopter.
Roflknife.
Lolliskates.
Lmassoff.
O.o?

SnakeRunner, I thought posting consecutively at the rate you are was against the rules?
If you must continue speaking even after hitting the send button, also try hitting the edit button.

And Bungie Employees go to every forum. They might just not have enough time to reply to every thread that feels inadequate of their time.

[Edited on 06.11.2009 6:16 AM PDT]

  • 06.11.2009 6:11 AM PDT
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I agree with most of it. Some stuff I don't agree with is the faster kill speed, the fall damage, and dual wielding.

I enjoy dual wielding because it adds another element to the cqb experience. It gives a person more options. I don't really care about the missing features. All I want is to use my favorite gun the SMG and not get killed doing that.

The faster kill speed should absolutely NOT be included. One of the main reasons I play Halo is because it gives me a chance to not die. I have the shield bar which goes down at a reasonable rate instead of the COD way of "one shot death." If they change the health system I will quit. It is one of the basic parts of the game.

Fall damage should also not be included. I don't care if it makes the game more "tactical." I would rather be able to throw myself with reckless abandon (which is fun) as opposed to having to watch where I walk all the time (not fun) because a simple fall could kill me. Imagine if you were playing on Construct and you had fall damage. Do you really think that playing on a map like Construct where half the tactics are falling long differences would still be fun if you died from a 30 ft fall? No. Fall damage being taken out was a good idea.

  • 06.11.2009 6:21 AM PDT

Yes, I am listening to Halo music while playing Halo 3 multiplayer and writing on the Halo 3 forums in between matches in a dark basement. You got a problem with that?

A well thought out reason to play Halo:CE. Everyone, for some reason, seems to want back the rediculously overpowered pistol. I felt the pistol was far too powerful, and made almost every other weapon obsolete, and this annoyed me. Long range is overrated. I personally enjoy close range far more. Close range stops people from stealing kills, and in general just keeps the gameplay from being accuracy ALONE. Don't get me wrong, accuracy is a good thing, and I agree for the most part with your assessment that the magnetism and auto-aim should be toned down. But when accuracy is the ONLY thing, it bores me to tears. I like the variety of close range weapons, the options to choose from, and the unique way you use the weapons. Close range is about how to use your weapon to its advantage, and not allow someone to exploit its weakness. BR battles, however, are just that. All that is is accuracy, no real variety. Bungie made the BR the way it is in H3 because of this, I think. Gotta go, I shall critique the rest later. Rant on, mah brother (I am a fellow ranter, at odds with most other ranters though; I rant the opposite way)

  • 06.11.2009 6:37 AM PDT

to OP: So, in a nutshell, Halo 1. Go play Halo 1 if you want to play Halo 1, everything you suggested sounds like Halo 1 to me. No need for your -blam!-ry here.

  • 06.11.2009 6:46 AM PDT

Posted by: MadroKurgan
This may be one of the least of my concerns, but for the love of Beelzebub, put the cross hair back in the dead center of the screen. There is noting unique or advantageous about having it lower.


Wow, I can't believe I forgot this one. Yeah, this is one of those head-scratchers Bungie throws in there. I would love for it to be back to center screen.

Posted by: Twolf88
i agree with most of the things op said, what i dont agree with is the strafing idea and the return of the old meele system, other than that, all the other changes would meen we would be playing halo ce mp again, since most of those things were in halo ce (balanced vehicles, fall damage, no dueling, etc) which i think is a great idea cause halo ce mp was the best


Whats wrong with a more usefull strafe? The point of strafing is to avoid enemy fire, and its a very important skill to develop and use. It adds immensly to the depth of combat. I don't see how thats a bad thing.

Posted by: Redraven1992
ya i pretty much agree with a move away from close range but it should still remain a good 2/5th the weapon combat
2/5th being med range and 1/5th being long renge


I'm not saying close range should become obsolete. I think it should be a large part of the game. However, I think levels should dictate what weapons you use. For instance, in certain areas of the levels, close range weapons are much better, so intelligent players will use them. I'm just tired of using close range weapons not because the level calls for it, but because thats all we're given.


Posted by: DuelTerror
This never really seemed like a problem in halo 3, and ive never seen a rocket curve in the air either.


You may not have noticed it, but they most certainly do. If you did see one curve, wouldn't you agree that its ridiculous?

Posted by: DuelTerror
The melle system seems fine now, all it needs is a little less damage and a shorter range.


So you're okay with being able to melee someone whos directly below you, even if you're looking straight ahead? You're okay with meleeing and turning 100 degrees to hit the enemy?

Posted by: DuelTerror
Fall damage would just ruin things in halo, like it did in halo 1's mutliplayer. If there was fall damage, it would just be inconvience, it would take longer to get to places from high up places.


There are very few levels, even in Halo 3, where fall damage would be a hinderance. If you think about it, there really aren't very many levels with high-tiered geometry.

Posted by: DuelTerror
are you saying that weapons should kill faster, but be less accurate? or are you meaning weapons should have more recoil. Im not sure what you mean by weapons being "harder to use".


Weapons should kill faster and be more accurate but they should be much harder to hit people with due to decrease aim assist and increased strafe speed.

Posted by: DuelTerror
I dont really get what your saying here....

Strafing is when you move your player back and forth in a lateral direction. In Halo 3, no matter how fast you move your thumbstick, the game limits how fast your player changes direction. You strafe in a very slow, gradual, easy to follow motion, which practically negates the purpose of strafing. I would like to see the speed at which you change directions increased to a more reasonable level.

Posted by: DuelTerror
it all looks the same to me in all halo games....

But it isn't.


Posted by: TXBADAZZ3365
p.s. Stop correcting everyone they're just opinions

Yes, and opinions should be as informed as possible. I'm not "correcting" anyone, I'm continuing the discussion because I am truly interested in MP balance and I think that people appreciate being responded to.

Posted by: Hale 079
Well to begin with, I think you're a bit misinformed. If Bungie wanted to make Halo 3 more accessible to players, reducing auto-aim, weaker grenades that need more precision and a harder to use BR and Sniper aren't the answer. I think it's a common misconception that Bungie was purposely trying to cater exclusively to newer players. Maybe it's because of the AR and it's full auto fire, and how easy it is to use as a result.

Maybe they weren't intentionally trying to cater to new players, but thats what happened in the end. The end result is what I'm concerned with, not their intentions. And theres nothing wrong with catering to newer players, but there is a problem when you do so to the detrement of the overal gameplay and skill curve.

Posted by: Hale 079
That in mind, if you think about it even Halo 2 could have been deemed "accessible to new players". I don't have to go on about how easy it was to snipe, how the BR was an automatic 4-shot. The only thing that newer players wouldn't be expected to do id learn all the button combos.

You have me mistaken; I think Halo 2 is even worse than Halo 3.

Posted by: Hale 079
I want Halo:Reach to be a new experience and not Halo 4. That said, all the ideas so far were for an improved Halo 3. What Halo really needs gentlemen, is a new gameplay mechanic. Or two. Because a lot of the hardcore, I expect, and a lot of casual players are going to turn up their noses at yet another "control power weapon, throw grenades, snipe" Halo game. It's been the third generation. Let Bungie innovate, and let's help them.


Innovation doesn't have to take the form of huge changes. Halo has a very, very solid foundation, they should innovate by tweaking the gameplay to be as good as it possibly could be.

Posted by: the contact
B and C.

You can't have both, it simply won't work online. There are amazing things as far as internet technology, but you can't have the br be like it was in halo 2 with less aim assist. No connection is perfect, and they want a game that plays well online. Besides you want other people to be able to pick up the game and be able to handle it. They want to draw a larger crowd not slim it down.


The Halo 2 BR has terrible aim assist. I want to move as far from that as possible. The sniper rifle works just fine, and it has little aim assist and long range. The game would work just fine without the massive aim assist we currently have.

I don't think decreasing it would have an adverse affect on newer players. Newer players would be playing other newer players, so they wouldn't be getting dominated.

Posted by: Idomeneus
Does ANYONE remember how grenades in Halo CE worked? They HAD to be ON the ground in order to explode, made them extremely unique to Halo in my opinion, honestly, those grenades actually MADE the Halo experience HALO to me back when the original came out, as well as the pistol of course.

Yes, I loved them; the timer didn't begin until the grenade came to rest. It made for very tactical, skillful grenade gameplay. I don't think Bungie will revert to this style though, unfortunately.

Posted by: SnakeRunner40
Why not instead say, "Bow down to MLG and don't listen to anyone else."? I mean, seriously, if they do that I might rethink buying this game, and I don't even think ODST is overpriced. This sounds like something MLG would compile.

All these suggestions are for the betterment of gameplay for everyone. Just because you have some unfounded bias against MLG has no bearing on this discussion.


Posted by: SnakeRunner40
A bunch of useless drivel with absolutely no backing argument or intelligent point.

This thread is for discussions, not temper tantrums.

Posted by: Mr Gruntsworthy
to OP: So, in a nutshell, Halo 1. Go play Halo 1 if you want to play Halo 1, everything you suggested sounds like Halo 1 to me.


Actually, I enjoy many features from all Halo games. I would like the gameplay to be more focused on player ability and a little faster paced. I love Halo CE, and if it had online play, I would play that exclusively. Unfortunately, thats not the case. If you have a problem with Halo Reach when it comes out, how about YOU go play Halo 3 instead?

  • 06.11.2009 9:09 AM PDT