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  • Subject: Reach MP - This is what NEEDs to happen
Subject: Reach MP - This is what NEEDs to happen

Posted by: TheBigShow
*Make the game Halo: CE with an online multiplayer. It will sell millions.


FIXED!

  • 06.11.2009 2:46 PM PDT

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Posted by: MadroKurgan
Posted by: EyelessLobster
If you don't want to melee, stay out of melee range, its not exactly hard.

If you think upscaling has nothing to do with a FOV your an idiot as the 1680x1050 resolution has the exact same FOV as split screen, which im sure you know has a much wider FOV.

Upscaling has nothing to do with increasing the FOV. Do you even know what upscaling is? The game can be at 720x480 all the way up to 1920x1080, and as long as the resolution is in widescreen, the FOV remains the same. And i'm aware that splitscreen has a larger FOV. But the split-screen FOV is larger then ANY single screen resolution. I will not say you are an idiot, but you are most definitely ignorant and without a clue.




To further MadroKurgan's point, when you upscale, all you are doing is increasing the resolution. That increases the detail and clarity of the image; it doesn't necessarily make the FOV exponentially larger in a way that you can actually see more outside of what the game wants you to.

  • 06.11.2009 3:40 PM PDT

Posted by: CDP288
Two things. First, this isn't Halo CE. Second, it's really arrogant of you to say Halo Reach needs this. Why should competitive players get more out of the game than casual players?
Just because there will be a larger skill gap doesn't mean that casual players will get less out of it. All it means is that skilled players will have more to get out of it too. Right now casual players can compete with skilled players in AR start games, it shouldn't be like that. Casual players can always play social or casual gametypes, the ranked gametypes should be skill-intensive and have a steep learning curve.

  • 06.11.2009 3:43 PM PDT

Posted by: TheBigShow
Posted by: Insane Brandon
K) Vehicles should dominate the open outside areas of the map, that is their jobs.

Yes, thats their job, but they shouldn't be automatic killing machines they are right now. Infintry players should be able to, with skill, kill the driver or passenger of the vehicle, or at the very least flip their vehicle with a well-placed grenade.


Can't you already do this? I mean it takes some skill and correct timing but it's entirely possible for a single person armed with a pistol or BR to do so, I have done it.

Posted by: TheBigShow
Posted by: Spartan999
The single shot, long range, non sniper weapon you are looking for is called the carbine.


There's a multitude of reasons why the Carbine does not fill that role. One of which is that it is grossly inaccurate at even medium ranges. Its rate of fire is too high, and its damage is too low.


I'm going to have to disagree with you on this. I feel the Carbine is incredibly accurate and the reason it causes less damage per shot than the BR is because it is semi-automatic therefore actually making it able to kill someone faster than the BR could ever dream of doing it, you just have to make headshots.

  • 06.11.2009 4:54 PM PDT

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Posted by: Whycantibelinus
I'm going to have to disagree with you on this. I feel the Carbine is incredibly accurate and the reason it causes less damage per shot than the BR is because it is semi-automatic therefore actually making it able to kill someone faster than the BR could ever dream of doing it, you just have to make headshots.

I think your point there is all relative. The carbine sure as hell didn't feel all that accurate to me, especially at range. At least with the BR and good aim you could guarantee at least one or two good head shots.

  • 06.11.2009 5:36 PM PDT
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Posted by: Sal Fasano
Posted by: TheBigShow
*Make the game Halo: CE with an online multiplayer. It will sell millions.


FIXED!

  • 06.11.2009 6:53 PM PDT
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Posted by: in the Krutch
Posted by: CDP288
Two things. First, this isn't Halo CE. Second, it's really arrogant of you to say Halo Reach needs this. Why should competitive players get more out of the game than casual players?
Just because there will be a larger skill gap doesn't mean that casual players will get less out of it. All it means is that skilled players will have more to get out of it too. Right now casual players can compete with skilled players in AR start games, it shouldn't be like that. Casual players can always play social or casual gametypes, the ranked gametypes should be skill-intensive and have a steep learning curve.
No, it should be how it is. THERE IS NO SKILL IN VIDEO GAMES!

  • 06.11.2009 6:54 PM PDT
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Halo CE > Halo 3 > Halo 2

Fix the Halo 3 BR spread, plz.

There is skill in video games. Believe it or not, you need good hand eye coordination and precise thumbs, atleast in shooters. Ever notice how some people are better than others? Yeah, because they are more skilled at the game.

  • 06.11.2009 6:57 PM PDT

Posted by: Baph117
This is an incredible step forward to being able to cure Downss sybndonre mn humans bineg.s

Sounds to me like you want a remake (ganeplay-wise) of CE. That sounds great to me, just make sure that a Scorpion touching you isn't an instant kill... :p

  • 06.11.2009 7:14 PM PDT
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Posted by: Foahda
There is skill in video games. Believe it or not, you need good hand eye coordination and precise thumbs, atleast in shooters. Ever notice how some people are better than others? Yeah, because they are more skilled at the game.
That's not skill, that's just plain luck.

  • 06.11.2009 7:20 PM PDT

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Multiplayer has always been a huge part of the Halo franchise. Gamers who have been with the series since its inception have seen the gameplay move from a faster paced game of quick wits, dexterous fingers, and careful planning to a slower paced, almost exclusively team-based, game of positioning rather than player ability.

The change was applauded by some and criticized by others, and the ultimate goal was always apparent; make the game more accessible and appeal to a newer audience. Well, I think its time the franchise moved forward from the hand-holding era into the gamer era. The vast majority of Reach players will be players who have now experience at least one Halo game, and the mechanics, controls and gameplay should be second nature by now. I believe its time for the gameplay to reach new heights by striking a balance between individual ability and team-based gameplay. The game can still remain easily accessible to newer players, but it won't do so to the exclusion of gamers looking for a more challenging MP experience.

The following changes would be beneficial to every player of Halo; the changes would open up the game, challenge players, and provide a more rewarding, lasting experience for everyone.


A) Longer range on all weapons : in Halo 3, combat was almost exclusively close-quarters. No weapon aside from the Sniper Rifles and Lasers could effectively damage an opponent outside of even moderate ranges. Increasing the ranges of all weapons will open up the gameplay to incorporate every aspect of the levels. Close range weapons will still have a prominent role, they just wont have all the focus like they currently do.

B) A Mid-Range Weapon : The BR was the mid-range standard for Halo 3. The problem is, it was hardly "mid-range" and it had a few other serious problems. I would like to see a single shot weapon that can effectively damage enemies at long ranges. Yes, I know many of you think this would lead to overuse of the weapon, but if balanced correctly (i.e. its very hard to use at long ranges, not random, just very hard) it would work just fine and would open up gameplay immensely.

C) Less Aim Assist : In Halo 3, AR bullets would literally curve through the air to hit their opponents. The AR! One of the bullet hoses of the game, with a large reticle that already made hitting your opponent easy enough had ridiculous bullet and reticle magnetism. The Rocket Launcher, splash damage machine, had ridiculous rocket magnetism, which caused the rockets to physically curve towards the opponent. Most of the time, the rocket curve was a huge annoyance. These types of Aim Assist are completely unnecessary and only serve to lower the skill curve of the game. A small amount of reticle and bullet magnetism is all that is needed on the weapons, at most.

D) Fixed Melee : There is absolutely no reason for a 90 degree lunge or aim assist on melees. If I'm looking at an enemy and I'm within 10 feet or so, I should land the melee. What shouldn't happen is me meleeing when I see the enemy out of the corner of my eye or below me and have my character flip 100 degrees, lunge 20 feet and curve through the air and land the melee. Thats ridiculous and is one of the main reasons Halo 2 and Halo 3's close quarters combat is so terrible. Also, I don't want a "window of opportunity" for everyone to counter melee like we have in Halo 3. Lets just accept the fact that online, the host will have certain advantages, melee being one of the more significant. I'd rather have one host player have a small advantage than have everyone be saddled by a lame melee system. If we made melee's require actually aiming at the enemy to hit, the host advantage wouldn't be as big of a deal anyway.

E) Fall Damage : Fall damage, not only from a logistical standpoint in terms of the armor, should be standard in Reach's MP. Fall Damage forces players to think and plan their actions more carefully rather than throw themselves around with reckless abandon. A small slip-up could be fatal, and it adds a new dimension to levels and how players move about them. Additionally, the crouch land should be included as a way to prevent full fall damage on impact.

F) Faster Kill Speed : In recent Halo games, the majority of the weapons had a very slow kill speed. What I mean by that is that it generally took around two seconds to kill one opponent, assuming every shot hits. Two seconds may not sound like a long time, but in terms of a MP game, it makes a huge difference. It allows players with poor positioning and planning to easily escape from their situations just by running away. Weapons need to have the ability to kill a little quicker in Reach (although it should be much more difficult to land all the shots). I'm not asking for one shot kills with every weapon, I just want battles to be more intense and require greater awareness rather than a slow draw out affair where one opponent simply starts running away.

G) Faster Strafe Speed : Halo 3 had a myriad of customization options, including player speed. While I always applaud more customization options, there was one large problem with this one. Increasing the speed did not change the strafe speed, and there was no option to do so. Strafing needs to be a quick, precise motion rather than a slow, lumbering, easy-to-follow movement. The default strafe speed should be higher, or at least have the option to increase it.

H) No Dual Wielding : Dual wielding has been attempted in the past two Halo games and each time it has felt unsatisfying, unfun, and leads to a slew of other problems. The most significant is the "half-weapon" syndrome, which Bungie attempted to fix in Halo 3. Dual wielding also prevents weapons from having unique, powerful features. The most blatant would be the removal of the plasma freeze. In order to keep plasma weapons, which are dual-weildable, balance, Bungie couldn't keep their freezing property in or it would be overpowered. So they tossed it in an effort to push dual-wielding. Which leads me to my next point....

I) Return of Plasma Freeze : We need to see unique weapons return to Halo MP, rather than just a large amount of cloned, uninspired, unused weapons. The plasma freeze added a very unique feel and use to the plasma weapons in Halo CE. The plasma rifle was preferable to even the shotgun in some applications instead of a largely unused spam weapon it is now. Without the freeze, the plasma weapons are relegated to second class weapons, serving only one or two worthwhile purposes.

J) Wider FOV : The FOV has gotten progressively smaller with each new Halo game. The only logical reason for this would be to lower the amount of rendering the engine does. However, I would gladly sacrifce all the superfluous elements of the maps (camping stools, barrels, shrubbery, 3d skyboxes, etc) for better gameplay (i.e. wider FOV). A wider FOV enables players to see a more realistic view of the battlefield and removes the tunnel vision dizziness that many players experienced with Halo 2 and Halo 3.

K) Balanced Vehicles : Requiring players to have a specific, cumbersome, slow weapon to even have a remote chance of posing a threat to vehicles is unbalanced, unfun and just plain ridiculous. Vehicles should be a viable option, but they shouldn't be domininant, overpowered killing machines that rule the battlefield.

Well, thats it for now. Just a brief list of things that should be changed for the game to evolve to new levels. If you disagree with any of them, let me know and I'd love to chat about it with you.


So this should happen? Just because you say it should? Do you work at Bungie? No because no one at Bungie would post this. No, Bungie will not just cater to just one persons whim, no matter what he or she says. The answer is no. Maybe not a lot of people have told you that answer in your lifetime. Still the answer is no. The opperative word here is presumptuous. That you would presume that this would happen just because you say it should happen. That is just as absurd as me saying everyone here should send me $5.00 just because I said it should happen. My answer to you is go make your own game. There is software out there you can buy at great expense that will allow you to make a game the way you want it...

  • 06.11.2009 7:56 PM PDT

I agree with most of your statements. Very thought out, and i enjoyed reading it.

A few things is Vehicles in my opinion are fine. They are suppose to give you trouble, but of the fixes you would make would make vehicles less of a threat. Moving faster, and improving weapons will give players a little help in the area.

And I do miss plasma freeze, and fall damage wont matter to much now since you just recharge shields.

And in my opinion melee wont need to be fixed with a longer range of weapons, and more mid range weapons.

editi
P.S. Person above me, its his opinion. So pull out what ever is in your ass_ hole, your annoying



[Edited on 06.11.2009 8:00 PM PDT]

  • 06.11.2009 7:57 PM PDT

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P.S. Person above me, its his opinion. So pull out what ever is in your ass_ hole, your annoying


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  • 06.11.2009 8:04 PM PDT
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I agree with most of this, especially fixing the range of weapons, especially mid-range ones. However, i think Halo 3 has the best melee system by far of the series. You can criticize the "window of opportunity" as much as you want but its better than the alternative of host always wins. Giving the melee a lower range would only make the problem worse, as the host would go faster and would be the only person able to actually aim their melee to ensure it hits. Bungie can't fix the fact that people have slow connections, they just have to make it as fair as possible. Plasma freeze is also something i never really liked. It's kind of like a cheap trick to make sure your enemy cant shoot back, and it takes no skill to gun somebody down while they stand there without any way to shoot back. I'd rather see them make it do a little more damage when your shields are down like it did in CE

  • 06.11.2009 8:07 PM PDT

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This is perfectly well thought out and explained. This is what Halo: Reach needs.

  • 06.11.2009 8:08 PM PDT

Halo: CE > > Halo 3 > Halo: Reach = Halo 2

Posted by: Joric Deture
Posted by: MadroKurgan
Posted by: EyelessLobster
If you don't want to melee, stay out of melee range, its not exactly hard.

If you think upscaling has nothing to do with a FOV your an idiot as the 1680x1050 resolution has the exact same FOV as split screen, which im sure you know has a much wider FOV.

Upscaling has nothing to do with increasing the FOV. Do you even know what upscaling is? The game can be at 720x480 all the way up to 1920x1080, and as long as the resolution is in widescreen, the FOV remains the same. And i'm aware that splitscreen has a larger FOV. But the split-screen FOV is larger then ANY single screen resolution. I will not say you are an idiot, but you are most definitely ignorant and without a clue.




To further MadroKurgan's point, when you upscale, all you are doing is increasing the resolution. That increases the detail and clarity of the image; it doesn't necessarily make the FOV exponentially larger in a way that you can actually see more outside of what the game wants you to.

Actually you really are not increasing the resolution on the 360. The games native resolution stays the same regardless of the resolution you choose in the 360 dashboard. This is called upscaling. The monitor resolution is increased, but the game resolution is not. For the game resolution to increase, the pixel ratio must also increase 1:1. This does not happen on the 360. That is why when you increase the 360 resolution, it doesn't effect the framerate of the game, because upscaling doesn't require none to negligable CPU cycles. On a PC just the opposite happens. When you increase the resolution, the game resolution increases too. And increasing the resolution on PC games lowers the games framerate. PC games are not upscaled. Everything is 1:1. And in many cases, in PC FPS, when you increase the resolution, the FOV increases as well.



[Edited on 06.11.2009 8:39 PM PDT]

  • 06.11.2009 8:37 PM PDT
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Posted by: TheBigShow
B) A Mid-Range Weapon : The BR was the mid-range standard for Halo 3. The problem is, it was hardly "mid-range" and it had a few other serious problems. I would like to see a single shot weapon that can effectively damage enemies at long ranges. Yes, I know many of you think this would lead to overuse of the weapon, but if balanced correctly (i.e. its very hard to use at long ranges, not random, just very hard) it would work just fine and would open up gameplay immensely.

The funny thing was that the BR almost was a single-shot weapon. If you remember the Halo 2 trailer that was included with Halo:CE, the BR was a single-shot variant. Single-shotting encourages accuracy, and will make you hone your aiming skills. Once you remove that single shot capacity, the tendency of gamers to actually try and aim goes down dramatically, and results in a much less talented pool of gamers.

To get at a good game, you really have to go down to the bare essentials, evaluate them, and see how well the game matches up to those standards. And a big hole in Halo 3's appeal is the lack of skill needed. Sure, you may appease those who suck at FPS's, but you start to alienate the fanbase that has been with you from the beginning.

In short, your post (OP) is dead-on. I agree with every point you addressed. Keep up the good work, and hopefully Bungie will take a look at it.

  • 06.11.2009 9:00 PM PDT

Halo: CE > > Halo 3 > Halo: Reach = Halo 2

Posted by: teddyvonm
Posted by: TheBigShow
B) A Mid-Range Weapon : The BR was the mid-range standard for Halo 3. The problem is, it was hardly "mid-range" and it had a few other serious problems. I would like to see a single shot weapon that can effectively damage enemies at long ranges. Yes, I know many of you think this would lead to overuse of the weapon, but if balanced correctly (i.e. its very hard to use at long ranges, not random, just very hard) it would work just fine and would open up gameplay immensely.

The funny thing was that the BR almost was a single-shot weapon. If you remember the Halo 2 trailer that was included with Halo:CE, the BR was a single-shot variant. Single-shotting encourages accuracy, and will make you hone your aiming skills. Once you remove that single shot capacity, the tendency of gamers to actually try and aim goes down dramatically, and results in a much less talented pool of gamers.

To get at a good game, you really have to go down to the bare essentials, evaluate them, and see how well the game matches up to those standards. And a big hole in Halo 3's appeal is the lack of skill needed. Sure, you may appease those who suck at FPS's, but you start to alienate the fanbase that has been with you from the beginning.

In short, your post (OP) is dead-on. I agree with every point you addressed. Keep up the good work, and hopefully Bungie will take a look at it.

The H2 E3 demo BR was sweet. Not only was it single shot semi-auto, but the reticule was the center of the screen... why and how did they screw that all up?

  • 06.11.2009 9:04 PM PDT

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I agree with everything, but I think that plasma should only stun on headshots.

  • 06.11.2009 10:30 PM PDT

Posted by: Duardo
I'd love to be a 10 year old and tell my mom I'm going on an adventure out into the world catching Pokemon, with her full support. Never mind the fact that there are rapists, criminals, and murders out there, or the fact that I may get killed by a Pokemon.

Luckily I have Pikachu.

I'm gonna have to disagree with less aim assist, the game is inconsistant enough with all the random spread in various weapons that without aim assist it would be even more random.

  • 06.11.2009 11:31 PM PDT

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Posted by: Sal Fasano
Posted by: TheBigShow
*Make the game Halo: CE with an online multiplayer. It will sell millions.


FIXED!
That's obviously not what he's wanting. But if I wanted to use your flawed logic, I could say the same thing about Halo 3 - make it Halo 2 with less story, the same bad gameplay, but with forge and theater; it will sell millions.

  • 06.11.2009 11:33 PM PDT

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Posted by: The BS Police
I'm gonna have to disagree with less aim assist, the game is inconsistant enough with all the random spread in various weapons that without aim assist it would be even more random.


The aim assist really needs to be fixed though. I absolutely hate it when you are firing at one thing, and then something else flies by right behind it and the aim assist picks up on that target instead and drags you away from your initial target. How can you expect to have any semblance of accuracy when you can't even focus on one target?

  • 06.11.2009 11:37 PM PDT
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I %100 support this idea but i don't think they should remove dual wielding.

  • 06.11.2009 11:50 PM PDT

Do you really care? you can't automatically see my signature anyway.

I would like the ability to independently change the horizontal and vertical look sensitivity. also, a completely new weapon set
AR - no
BR55 - no
M6D - no
S2 AM Sniper Rifle - no
M90 Shotgun - no
SPANKR - no
any of the current or past covenant or unsc weaponary - nada

  • 06.12.2009 12:10 AM PDT

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A) Longer range on all weapons : Normally I wouldn't agree with an idea such as this, but when thinking about the weapons in Halo CE, they actually did emphasize further range, and in doing so, made the battles feel more massive. I concur!

B) A Mid-Range Weapon : This can be very easily accomplished. For example, the battle rifle showcased for Halo 2 at E3 way back had a single shot when zoomed, 3-shot burst when unzoomed. If we take this version, add a little bit more damage (Halo CE pistol style), along with your later mentioned deduction of aim assist, I think we have our mid-range weapon. The carbine could have been a good weapon, but thus far has failed us. The main reasons were 1. It's lack of accuracy (tiny reticule) 2. It's ridiculously small clip-size. Fix that and we have a second mid-range weapon.

C) Less Aim Assist : If anything, I'd say get rid of it altogether. At the least, drastically reduce aim assist and completely remove magnetism. There is absolutely no reason why my bullets should curve, unless somehow caught in a goddamn tornado!

D) Fixed Melee : 110% Agreed. If anything, bring back the melee system from CE.

E) Fall Damage : Honestly, I would love to have them bring back fall damage. It added so many dimensions to the game. Just remembering multiplayer matches back on Prisoner makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside. On the other hand, a lot of people would hate that return. I would say it would be best to have a fall damage option in multiplayer, and leave it to Bungie whether or not they want it in Campaign.

F) Faster Kill Speed : So I think what you're looking for is less health or more general damage given? I'm not going to touch this issue because it really depends how Bungie wants to make this game. We don't even know how the health system will be. I wouldn't mind a visible health system with pickups as an option like in CE. That is true arena-style shooter gameplay.

G) Faster Strafe Speed : Yes to making it adjustable.

H) No Dual Wielding : That simply wouldn't work. It's like taking a step forward and two steps back. I don't care for dual wielding either, but getting rid of it altogether I feel is a mistake. I believe taking much more focus from it would make sense, and perhaps making certain dual wielded weapons no longer having dual wielding abilities would work. For example, the plasma rifle is supposed to be the equivalent to the assault rifle, but then why can u dual wield it? They took the feature away from the needler. Take it away from the plasma rifle.

I) Return of Plasma Freeze : Yes, yes, and yes again. I've mentioned the plasma stun effect time and time again, and how they should bring it back.

J) Wider FOV : I see what you're saying, but honestly I think they'd have to do some tweaks to the graphics engine to really make this work. Furthermore, we aren't even sure what engine they'll be using this time around.

K) Balanced Vehicles : I think if they went back to the vehicle control method they had in CE, this can be rectified. For example, in CE the warthog was a bit more difficult to control on turns, and would more often flip over. If they did something along these lines, it would become more simple to take vehicles out, while not quite impairing their power.



All in all, in basis I agree with you 100%. You are a bit radical in your wants. You have to remember that Bungie likes to cater to a larger community than just the hardcore gamers. Many of your ideas can be accomplished by having them set as options. I would like them to even go as far as having them set in a playlist. Perhaps fall damage, no duals, and health pickups standard in a "Classics" playlist? A lot of the things you are asking for a lot of other people would want, so we can't just get rid of them.

If you want such a topic to get as far as to Bungie's monitors, you'd have to take into account the general audience's desires as well.

  • 06.12.2009 2:03 AM PDT