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This topic has moved here: Subject: Reach MP - This is what NEEDs to happen
  • Subject: Reach MP - This is what NEEDs to happen
Subject: Reach MP - This is what NEEDs to happen

Clearly because the desktop uses a 3 prong plug and a laptop uses a 2 prong plug, the microwave will fill your car with tostitos better

Posted by: Arthorian3000
I agree with you 100% except for one thing: I think the vehicles are balanced good. You have grenades, rockets, spartan lasers, and boarding to stop them. I know that sometimes a warthog controls everything, but most of the time, they get blown up right at the start.


I was kind of thinking about this and I do think that vehicles are balanced relatively well. I mean, pretty much any map where there is a banshee there is a missile pod, laser, power drain, and if your really desperate, stickys. I never really have problems with flipping warthogs with frags or sticking most vehicles. The only time I really have problems with it is if they have a good driver who keeps his distance on a map like standoff and they somehow acquire the laser, although that may just be because of their superior teamwork to get the laser and then smart driving, thats really the only situation I can think of where vehicles can just completely dominate you.

  • 06.13.2009 8:42 AM PDT
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Totally with you...
I'd add only a slight increase of moving speed and add some more "skill jumps" (you can't compare Halo 3 to what you could do on Lockout)

  • 06.13.2009 8:49 AM PDT

....whut?

I'm not gonna make a remark on most of the points because they've been debated to death, I agree with you, or the point is just a matter of personal opinion and isn't worth arguing about.

E) Fall damage takes away much of the fun of the game. Yes, it's another "skill" aspect, but it cuts out quite a bit of gameplay. I can't imagine Headlong would have been nearly as much fun if you couldn't drop down from above to get the jump (heheheheh) on your enemies. Crouch landings would also become a "no-skill" aspect of the game because they'd need to make the window of opportunity much wider for online play. Falling is one of the fastest movements in the game and would therefore be most affected by lag.

F) Halo 2/3 had perfect kill speeds. If you couldn't kill someone without them getting to cover, then you shouldn't have engaged them in the first place and/or weren't situationally aware enough yourself.

H&I) Dual wielding was one of my favorite parts of both Halo 2 and 3, and feels very satisfying. I felt any "half weapon syndrome" since I consider grenades another weapon. Out manuvering someone and pinning them down with grenades to move in for the kill is definately a satisfying feeling. And if you feel that plasma weapons need the freeze to be effective, you're seriously underestimating them. I'll take a single plasma rifle over an assault rifle any day of the week. Especially if I have a BR on my back.

J) I'd just like to point out that one could consider having a smaller FOV as a way to increase the need for situational awareness, and that it's more realistic. Take it or leave it.

K) Are you kidding? There are PLENTY of ways to take down a vehicle. If you're having trouble doing so, then they're simply better than you. Rockets, Grenades, Lasers, Snipers, Bruteshot, Plasma Pistols, Gravity Hammers, and sometimes even Shotguns are all effective vehicle killers. If the driver's good enough to dodge, they're at a higher skill-level than you. And yes, I have played against good drivers and such - I'm a 39(!!!) in squad battle.

  • 06.13.2009 9:08 AM PDT
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With all the stuff you've just said, Halo 3 would loose a lot of its popularity. Halo gots its popularity from being a great game, as well as being extremely basic, Its so easy to pick up and play, and be able to defy gravity and what not, but you want a realistic more serious game, that would scare away newcombers, Im sorry but i didnt agree with much here.

  • 06.13.2009 10:40 AM PDT

This is one of the most intelligent and well thought out posts I've seen on these forums. For the longest time I've completely abandoned these forums for MLG, but your post represents a small gleam of why I used to post here more often. I agree with almost everything, however there are a few issues that I see.
Less aim assist : This should clear alot up: http://www.mlgpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=198153. Halo 3 actually has the least auto aim of all. As far as bullets actually curving to help aim, I believe that's more a Host/Client issue than anything else (if it's not please someone correct me).
Fall Damage: This could be very bad in a number of ways. I'm not necessarily speaking in terms of lore here, (BTW people, they most likely will be using very early MJOLNIR suits, since this is before H1) but this could result in "bull-blam!- kills". I get that you want people to be smarter about the way they move around the map, but adding fall damage can restrict map movement. The first time someone drops down to stop a flag cap, only to die without being shot once, is going to result in a dozen "-blam!- BUNGIE" threads. Players should not be restricted on map movement simply due to the fact that there is a big jump causing fall damage.
Faster Kill Speed: Your ideas on the rebalanced weapons are fantastic. The re-introduction of plasma freeze is awesome, as are your thoughts on more diverse weapons with better range. However, if a player has poor positioning, they will not be able to escape. You may not get the kill, but if your team is playing intelligently, your teammate should be able to get the kill using a weapon with improved range.
Again, really well thought out post here. Hopefully it causes alot of people to think on a deeper level than just the normal enter game, spray ar, shoot rocket, melee, complain on forums.

[Edited on 06.13.2009 12:36 PM PDT]

  • 06.13.2009 12:34 PM PDT
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Very NICE

  • 06.13.2009 12:46 PM PDT

I'm a CEman

I completely agree with everything, except the vehicle point.
You can easily flip a Warthog with a well placed grenade, and there are always counters to each vehicle on each map.
The controlling of these weapons usually comes down to teamwork, which is an important asset of this game as well.

  • 06.13.2009 1:25 PM PDT
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i agree with around half of it
fall damage maybe if say for example in construct falling from the top to bottom-that sort of height taking away 75% of shields then yeah ok
also i think that different armor should affect speed so eod or security slows you down but takes more damage and is more likely to win a simutanuous melee hit while a lighter armor can take less damage, maybe for someone who likes to snipe they can run faster to the weapon and get to position
duel weilding is good
faster kill speed-yes def
somesort of point system in the scoreboard while currently it used kills as the main thing to rank on in slayer if everything got a certain amount of points then it would be fairer when you hammer down a guy then someone steals your kill and is only counted minorly- like cod or gow where you're still decently rewarded for assisting a kill- that annoyes me so much i only play team swat usually
yes less melee in cqb would be nice

  • 06.13.2009 1:51 PM PDT
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Posted by: Vegie Mite
With all the stuff you've just said, Halo 3 would loose a lot of its popularity. Halo gots its popularity from being a great game, as well as being extremely basic, Its so easy to pick up and play, and be able to defy gravity and what not, but you want a realistic more serious game, that would scare away newcombers, Im sorry but i didnt agree with much here.
These ideas are not supposed to be realistic, they're similar to Halo 1. And sometimes, making a game where even a five year old can pick up and play, is not a good thing.

I don't think newcomers would be put off by this type of game. In fact, it would increase replayability by encouraging them to get better at the game.

When I first played Contra, I was frustrated because I kept dying all of the time. But I kept going back to it. You know why? To get better. Once I kept playing and getting better at it, it became more fun for me. The same idea applies here.

[Edited on 06.13.2009 4:38 PM PDT]

  • 06.13.2009 4:37 PM PDT

Clearly because the desktop uses a 3 prong plug and a laptop uses a 2 prong plug, the microwave will fill your car with tostitos better

Posted by: AK 47625714
Posted by: Vegie Mite
With all the stuff you've just said, Halo 3 would loose a lot of its popularity. Halo gots its popularity from being a great game, as well as being extremely basic, Its so easy to pick up and play, and be able to defy gravity and what not, but you want a realistic more serious game, that would scare away newcombers, Im sorry but i didnt agree with much here.
These ideas are not supposed to be realistic, they're similar to Halo 1. And sometimes, making a game where even a five year old can pick up and play, is not a good thing.

I don't think newcomers would be put off by this type of game. In fact, it would increase replayability by encouraging them to get better at the game.

When I first played Contra, I was frustrated because I kept dying all of the time. But I kept going back to it. You know why? To get better. Once I kept playing and getting better at it, it became more fun for me. The same idea applies here.


Exactly, making a game hard does not make people not want to play it. H:CE was one of the hardest games to pick up as far as MP goes and it is considered to be a game that defines the entire FPS genre. Look at how easy CoD4 and WaW are easy to play when you first pick them up, both games came out after H3 and H3 still has more UUs than both of them and has for like 8 weeks now and WaW only came out a few months ago compared to more than 1 1/2 years for H3. We aren't asking for H3 to be made super hard, were asking for the skill cap to be raised, the difference between skilled players and unskilled players to be greater (because frankly on H3 the difference between a colonel and a general is only the understanding of a few basic concepts), and a higher replay value because of more challenging gameplay. The features we are asking for aren't "realistic", they are simply taking a step back and trying to mix some of the best elements of gameplay (in our opinion obviously) into the next Halo so people can see what we are talking about. Seriously, the last two Halo's have catered heavily to new players and the extremely casual making things way easier than they need to be, if Bungie challenges them a little bit they won't lose these fans or turn away new ones, if anything they should want to play the game more because they can't do everything on the first try.

  • 06.14.2009 6:58 PM PDT

Posted by: AK 47625714
When I first played Contra, I was frustrated because I kept dying all of the time. But I kept going back to it. You know why? To get better. Once I kept playing and getting better at it, it became more fun for me. The same idea applies here.
Same with Quake 3. Sure, It's great fun when you are first learning it and playing on an easy difficulty, but it's crack once you are good and playing on nightmare.

  • 06.14.2009 8:20 PM PDT

While I agree with most of your points, and we could debate to death as to what really needs to happen with the multiplayer forever, but I feel we can't properly do so until we know what kind of FPS it's going to be. Personally I'm hoping for a more interesting and new experience, I'd rather be slower, or have larger maps that needs vehicles such as the Pelican and transport Warthogs to traverse quickly. I guess what I'm saying is that I'd like a Halo game that's extremely tactical in the way you need to play it. We've played the Halo you're suggesting before, it was great, but we need something new, something only we can dream of, and Bungie can create. Although I do feel individual skill needs to be stressed more, I also feel that no player should win a fight that's three on one. It's silly to have put yourself in such a situation and displays a lack of skill in your planning, of course if you manage to kill all three it would show an excellent skill of execution. But still, a direct three on one battle should never truly be won by a single player, maybe take out one opponent, possibly two, but all three is just insane. I guess I may be asking for a more realistic Halo. Because personally I think it would be fun. But we'll have to wait and see what Bungie does, and hopefully whatever they do a vast majority enjoys it, and the hardcore falls in love with it.

  • 06.14.2009 9:47 PM PDT

So... you want Halo CE?

  • 06.14.2009 9:49 PM PDT

Posted by: Chicken K499
So... you want Halo CE?
That's basically what I'm thinking he wants, which is fine, but I do feel we need to move away from old gameplay and onto something new.

I feel a lot of hardcore Halo: CE players think that as the games get a little easier so new players can learn and enjoy them that Bungie is intentionally trying to hurt the hardcore player. Of course Bungie wants more people to play their games, and of course Bungie wants to make more money. But just because you were playing first doesn't mean you own the game and the fate of each subsequent game. The hardcore player is just another demographic that developers have to try and appeal to while still appealing to a larger, more casual audience. Without the casual audience good games like Halo wouldn't have made it past their first, maybe second iteration.

Just so you know I played Halo: CE when it first came out, I played it a lot, and I loved it dearly; I'm a part of the hardcore demographic, I just don't let what a developer does to my favorite games over time hurt me personally. I feel people really need to calm down and understand the situation more before calling out a developer who's just trying to get their game out to more people, and needs more people to play their game so they can make more.

  • 06.14.2009 10:02 PM PDT

Posted by: xXxKilllgxXx
Although I do feel individual skill needs to be stressed more, I also feel that no player should win a fight that's three on one.
I think you should be able to win 15 on 1 if you're good enough.

Seriously, I hate games where I feel like I have no affect on whether I win or lose. Individual skill FTW.

  • 06.14.2009 10:53 PM PDT
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I agree with most of what the OP said, especially about the FOV! Although, I do have to disagree with removing dual-weilding. That is a very cool aspect that many other games do not posess. Going gunslinger style with dual mags? Charging in with guns a'blazin? There's fun in that, not the mundane BR fire. I'd actually like to see more automatic weapons (maybe up the power of the BR and the other semi-automatic weapons)?

Just my 2 cents.

  • 06.14.2009 11:17 PM PDT
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I agree with you on points A, B, E, F, and K. However, i do find some problems with your suggestions. With C, i dont ever recall a rocket curving towards a target. Either you lead right, or you miss your target. As for fixed melee...wtf were you doing at that time? I dont ever recall pushing B to melee and turning 90 degrees and lunging 20 to whack a guy in the face

  • 06.14.2009 11:31 PM PDT
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Love's Halo:CE and H3. Castlevania games FTW!
Never let anyone bring you down in life, do the right thing...

Frankly, I agree with you. The way I see it Halo needs to go back into "Old School" Halo:CE gameplay, which I enjoy when I bought Halo:CE the first time.

  • 06.15.2009 12:36 AM PDT

GOD IS GREAT. PRAISE DEDICATION DEVOTION TO AHURA MAZDA
.DEATH UPON NON-BELIEVERS, INFIDELS, AND THE EVIL LYERS

we need DEDICATED SERVERS it will fix most probels especisally kill time

dual wieding.?

everytime they get a good idea they balance it Too much.

  • 06.15.2009 1:30 AM PDT

Does anyone even read these?

I agree with absolutely everything you have said, great job! I miss the Plasma Freeze so much, made that gun so unique.

  • 06.15.2009 1:40 AM PDT

Does anyone even read these?

Posted by: MasterBeef12345
I agree with you on points A, B, E, F, and K. However, i do find some problems with your suggestions. With C, i dont ever recall a rocket curving towards a target. Either you lead right, or you miss your target. As for fixed melee...wtf were you doing at that time? I dont ever recall pushing B to melee and turning 90 degrees and lunging 20 to whack a guy in the face
You have never noticed the auto-aim on the Rocket Launcher before? This has got to be the most annoying thing ever. I want to aim in strategic places to fire my Rockets but when an enemy walks in front of me and then behind a wall my aimer will follow the player and will end up with me shooting the wall instead of where I was originally aiming.

We don't need aim assist on the Rocket Launcher.

  • 06.15.2009 1:43 AM PDT
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A) Longer range on all weapons
Agreed. I think most combat should take place at medium range. The close range power weapons should still remain very useful but not decide the game.

C) Less Aim Assist
Agreed. After starting to play Halo: CE on my laptop again the amount of auto-aim in Halo 3 feels ridiculous.

D) Fixed Melee
I think the melee system should rely 100% on your target being in the path of your arms reach when you melee to hit them. Zero auto-aim or lunge.

I also think that all weapons should have a unique melee that does different damage and takes different amounts of time. In Halo 3 the heavier and bladed weapons did slightly more but most weapons had the same melee. Each weapon should have its own completely unique melee animation like in Halo: CE.

E) Fall Damage
Agreed.

F) Faster Kill Speed
Agreed. It would be necessary with less auto-aim.

G) Faster Strafe Speed
Agreed.

H) No Dual Wielding
This one is kind of hard. I like duel wielding but I think the game would be better without it, so agreed.

I) Return of Plasma Freeze
Agreed.

J) Wider FOV
Don't really care.

K) Balanced Vehicles \
Vehicles should dominate the open playing field but a skilled player should stand a chance against the smaller less powerful vehicles like the warthog and ghost with just grenades.

The same thing should apply to smaller less powerful vehicles against larger more powerful vehicles. A skilled Warthog driver and gunner should have a chance at defeating a Scorpion. In Halo 3 that doesn't happen and if you notice we don't see much of the Scorpion.

Anti-vehicle weapons should not equal dead vehicles. They should require skill but offer you the means to destroy any vehicle. Teamwork should also allow you to defeat any vehicle without power weapons.

[Edited on 06.15.2009 2:23 AM PDT]

  • 06.15.2009 2:10 AM PDT

Does anyone even read these?

Posted by: Insane Brandon
Vehicles should dominate the open playing field but a skilled player should stand a chance against the smaller less powerful vehicles like the warthog and ghost with just grenades.

The same thing should apply to smaller less powerful vehicles against larger more powerful vehicles. A skilled Warthog driver and gunner should have a chance at defeating a Scorpion. In Halo 3 that doesn't happen and if you notice we don't see much of the Scorpion.

Anti-vehicle weapons should not equal dead vehicles. They should require skill but offer you the means to destroy any vehicle. Teamwork should also allow you to defeat any vehicle without power weapons.
That's what was so great about Halo: CE, a well placed grenade could put an end to a vehicles run. A ghost could defeat a Scorpian Tank by circling it and shooting it as the turret becomes stiff, just like the Plasma Rifle. We also had the Pistol which people could take down the gunner of a Warthog with a good aim, quite hard to do with a BR in Halo 3 without wasting 3 clips, by then you're already dead. Also the Rocket Launcher had no auto-lock feature so a good aim could take down a Hog as well.

In other words I support what you said. :)

  • 06.15.2009 2:27 AM PDT

I agree with everything I just read. Not that I'm ordering it to happen, it would just be good. But 2 things:

1. Halo: Reach was always going to be more for the Halo fanatics. It's set even before the first Halo game, which means it will have different gameplay. Notably with the energy shields. Most of the gamers that just bothered to pick up Halo 3 alone will start complaining about how their energy shields recharge too slow. But maybe we won't have evergy shields at all. Mark IV armor, perhaps? Either way, I'll like it.

2. No offence bungie, but when shooting the Assualt Rifle, I would like the feeling that I'm actually shooting bullets with fused metal, not plastic.

Me out.

=)

  • 06.15.2009 2:40 AM PDT