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Subject: This is why there are no Elites. Quoted from Bungie. Please read.

"It is impossible to prepare for and prevent a war at the same time"
-Albert Einstein

There are so many reasons out there why Bungie did not include Elites in Halo 3: ODST, both fiction and non-fiction.

Well the following is an exact quote from one of bungie's weekly updates (dated January 23rd, 2009)

But there is one aspect of the trailer and accompanying coverage in particular that has caused a little bit of confusion among Halo aficionados and speculators from around the World Wide Web - the presence of Brute packs patrolling the darkened alleyways of New Mombasa. And perhaps conversely, the absence of the Elites.

We realize that the Elites are of a fan-favorite, so it's probably wise to set aside your compassion and steel yourself for what is about to come. There are no Elites to fight in Halo 3: ODST.


there are then a few paragraphs of unrelated talk followed by this...


The following is a cursory exploration of some of the more critical events along the Halo 2 and Halo 3 timelines. This examination is not meant to be exhaustive, but rather a set of waypoints to guide you along as we look back at key events and characters that influenced and impacted the Covenant schism, circa 2552.

-October 20: New Mombassa, Kenya is destroyed by the Slipstream Space Rupture Backlash from the Prophet of Regret's ship.
-November 2: The Prophet of Regret's ship and In Amber Clad arrive at Delta Halo. Prophet of Regret liquidated by SPARTAN-117.
-November 3: Prophet of Truth leaves High Charity for Earth in Forerunner dreadnought.
-November 8: The Forerunner dreadnought arrives in the Sol system and proceeds to Earth at near relativistic speed.
-November 17: The Forerunner dreadnought arrives at Earth. SPARTAN-117 ejects and lands in the Kenyan jungle.


What's written in these few entries is important in the context of understanding the overall story presented in the Halo trilogy. But what exists between the lines is where you should focus most of your attention. This is where the majority of the events that unfold during Halo 3: ODST take place. And it is in also in these moments that the Prophet of Truth did much of his puppeteer's manipulations. The thirteen day span between the dates of October 20th and November 2nd provided the High Prophet with all the time he needed to redeploy Brute-led Covenant forces, their mission objectives relayed sub rosa, into the heart of New Mombasa.

But why Brutes?

In the wake of Regret's shameful retreat from New Mombasa, the Prophet of Truth continued his maneuvering - one eye always on his ultimate goal: his rightful and holy ascension. For Truth, his own personal passage was paramount. His Godhood would not be denied. Everything else was secondary.

And though Truth's duplicitous scheming doesn't come to full fruition until the Elite Honor Guard's failure to protect the Prophet of Regret affords him with the final leverage needed to appoint the Brutes to the lofty position, his plans were never made in haste. They were well laid. When the time came to return his attention to Earth, his expendable regiments needed to be led by Jiralhanae, not Sangheili.

Leaving the Elites to scour Earth in search of a Holy Forerunner relic, and ultimately to uncover the most precious and sacrosanct Forerunner artifact in existence - the very portal that opened upon the Ark itself - would have placed all Truth's aspirations upon the shoulders of a species he had already decided to cast aside, a species splintered by heresy and derision, even amongst their own ranks.

Truth's divisive mandate had been set in motion. The Elites had exhausted their usefulness to him, they would not be allowed to meddle in his affairs any longer, and he would not place his rightful transcendence into the hands of incompetents. His word was law.

So the Prophet of Truth deploys Brutes. And the Brutes were eager to prove that their loyalty and battle prowess had earned them a seat at the side of the Hierarchs, as the honored protectors of the sacred Covenant. Such blind faith and eagerness marked them as near perfect pawns for Truth to sacrifice.


So, here are the two reasons for elites not being in the game.

The non-fiction reason for no elites is that bungie decided that the fiction aspect of the game wouldn't be quite right with the elites. The fiction reason for no elites is stated in the above quotes from that particular bungie weekly update.


EDIT: Spelling mistake on October in the quick list of events

[Edited on 06.22.2009 5:52 AM PDT]

  • 06.11.2009 6:42 PM PDT
Subject: This is why there are no Elites. Quoted from bungie

Dyor' Docuree (2nd in command of the powerhouse, The Sangheili Army)

THANK YOU!!!!! i've been trying to tell people this for weeks now and it's driving me insane!

  • 06.11.2009 6:45 PM PDT

"It is impossible to prepare for and prevent a war at the same time"
-Albert Einstein

Exactly. I keep reading all of these made up theories on why there are no elites in the game. Well bungie told us why a few months ago but nobody had the brains to remember.

So i took the time to go and find that article and re-post it so that everyone WOULD remember.

  • 06.11.2009 6:46 PM PDT

Jerad Harry

wait a minute... i thought it was suppose to say
"Leaving Brutes to scour the Earth..."ect
Not Elites?

  • 06.11.2009 6:51 PM PDT

"It is impossible to prepare for and prevent a war at the same time"
-Albert Einstein

the prophet of truth had been planning to replace the elites with the brute cause they'd follow ANY orders he gave. So when regret left earth, he had the brutes basically get rid of any remaining elites, though there probably weren't many, leaving only brutes and their subordinates on the planet.

  • 06.11.2009 6:53 PM PDT

I got live!

Thank you so much. I have been trying to find that update for a long time.

  • 06.11.2009 7:06 PM PDT

"It is impossible to prepare for and prevent a war at the same time"
-Albert Einstein

Posted by: McChiken
Thank you so much. I have been trying to find that update for a long time.


you are very welcome.

  • 06.12.2009 9:52 AM PDT
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good thread OP. Perhaps now we can get back to discussing what will be in the game as opposed to what isn't?

  • 06.12.2009 10:01 AM PDT

Challenge me to a Hawaiian Punch chugging contest. I dare you.


Posted by: mubox47
$.50 in store credit.

It makes sense, thanks for pointing it out, but im gonna miss shooting them. I played H2 a little while ago, and it was soo great.

  • 06.12.2009 10:06 AM PDT
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Some intelligence. Finally thank you for contributing to answer some questions OP.

Cookie for you.

  • 06.12.2009 10:18 AM PDT
Subject: This is why there are no Elites. Quoted from Bungie. Please read.

PLEASE DO NOT SEND ME GROUP INVITATIONS

The Halo REACH Script (post thoughts in thread)

Writing Lead of Whisper Studios. Check out Heron!

Look... I'm on bungiepedia!

The real reason is they didn't want to confuse morons who didn't play H1 or H2, and probably because making Elites the enemy would not have made a difference for ODST if they're using the same animations and A.I. because the Elites were slow-thinking morons in the whopping two times they appeared in campaign.

I miss when they used to actually dodge things like in H1. Or when they threw grenades across a cafeteria and stuck you in the face before you can get close enough to hear the satisfying POP of their shields as you bear down on them with your (then-useful) Shotgun.

  • 06.12.2009 10:19 AM PDT

On Waypoint I'm rocketFox;
http://halo.xbox.com/forums/members/rocketfox/default.aspx

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Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
The real reason is they didn't want to confuse morons who didn't play H1 or H2, and probably because making Elites the enemy would not have made a difference for ODST if they're using the same animations and A.I. because the Elites were slow-thinking morons in the whopping two times they appeared in campaign.

I miss when they used to actually dodge things like in H1. Or when they threw grenades across a cafeteria and stuck you in the face before you can get close enough to hear the satisfying POP of their shields as you bear down on them with your (then-useful) Shotgun.


Nothing in the trilogy has quite matched up to the H1 Elites. They were awesome enemies. I'm surprised that the A.I. for the H2 and H3 enemies couldn't match up to the H1 A.I. Very strange.

I personally feel that Elites fit perfectly into ODST as when the In Amber Clad leaves New Mombasa the MC had just defeated the Scarab whilst battling through hordes of Elites to get there. 6 hours pass and all Elites disappear??? I think there will be no satisfactory plotline that can explain that.

Bring back H1 Elites.

  • 06.12.2009 10:25 AM PDT

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.

my post from yesterday


as the events unfold.

in halo 2 the covenant fleet under the command of the Prophet of Regret arrives at earth seeking the ark. they are stunned to find billions of humans LIVING there, and are soon under fire.

the first battle of earth takes place with the humans kicking the crap out of the covenant forces. as the Prophet of regret decides to make the jump to Delta Halo from above new mombasa he pulls all of his forces back, this battle group is led by the ELITES.

almost immediately following Regret's retreat, The Prophet of Truth brings his Fleet led by the Brutes(truth's favored troops) to earth and attacks again, this time they stay to uncover the ark. these Brute led covenant forces are now patrolling new mombasa.

EVENTS OF ODST HAPPEN HERE

The Prophet of regret arrives at delta halo with the chief close behind.

Truth finds out that the humans were waiting for him because Regret had failed. to punish regret for his failure he personally goes to delta halo leaving his forces at earth, taking Tartarus with him to kill Regret. The Prophet of Mercy also moves to delta halo with his fleet and high Charity.

Truth then takes the death of Regret and uses the fact that the Chief was there to blame the elites for the death of regret, and throws them from power, to place his men (the brutes) in the leader caste of the covenant.



As you can see, even though the humans and the elites are not allied at the time of ODST, there are NO ELITES on earth at the time, as they like the Chief are all at delta halo, only brute led forces were left to fight at earth after the slipspace event

  • 06.12.2009 10:46 AM PDT

Posted by: Duardo
I'd love to be a 10 year old and tell my mom I'm going on an adventure out into the world catching Pokemon, with her full support. Never mind the fact that there are rapists, criminals, and murders out there, or the fact that I may get killed by a Pokemon.

Luckily I have Pikachu.

Allow me to poke a hole in Bungies logic.

In Contact Harvest it was made clear why the Prophets ordered the examination of Humanity and it goes against everything in Bungies excuse, and everything Truth stated in Halo 3.

Mendicant Bias woke up,

In 2525, it was consulted, or rather "interrogated," by the Minister of Fortitude and the Vice Minister of Tranquility concerning the large number of Forerunner artifacts or "Holy Relics" on Harvest. In a shocking revelation Mendicant Bias revealed that the "Holy Relics" were actually humans and that the Covenant faith was based on an age-old mistranslation. The glyph on the Luminary was mistaken as "reclamation" when it truly meant "reclaimer". This had the potential to completely undermine the Covenant's unity and faith. A political revolution ensued to prevent this and, ultimately, led to the Human-Covenant War.

Now just to clear a few things up...

Minister of Fortitude = Prophet of Truth
Vice Minister of Tranquility = Prophet of Regret

So in essence what does that tell us?

That bungies excuse for lack of Elites in ODST makes no sense since the Prophet of Truth knew that the Covenant religion is false. The reason why he along with Mercy and Regret waged war against Humanity was not due to "the will of the gods", but rather because if they absorbed humanity into the Covenant there was a risk that the truth would be revealed that humanity is related to the forerunner, in which case the Covenant would break apart.

So really, the Human-Covenant war was merely a distraction and was only started due to Humanity having bad luck.




[Edited on 06.12.2009 11:29 AM PDT]

  • 06.12.2009 11:26 AM PDT

1.Arkham Asylum, 2.Mass Effect, 3.Halo CE, 4.Mass Effect 2, 5.Halo 2, 6.Splinter Cell Double Agent, 7.Gears of War 2, 8.Medievil, 9.Oblivion, 10.Crash Team Racing

Posted by: The BS Police
Allow me to poke a hole in Bungies logic.

In Contact Harvest it was made clear why the Prophets ordered the examination of Humanity and it goes against everything in Bungies excuse, and everything Truth stated in Halo 3.

Mendicant Bias woke up,

In 2525, it was consulted, or rather "interrogated," by the Minister of Fortitude and the Vice Minister of Tranquility concerning the large number of Forerunner artifacts or "Holy Relics" on Harvest. In a shocking revelation Mendicant Bias revealed that the "Holy Relics" were actually humans and that the Covenant faith was based on an age-old mistranslation. The glyph on the Luminary was mistaken as "reclamation" when it truly meant "reclaimer". This had the potential to completely undermine the Covenant's unity and faith. A political revolution ensued to prevent this and, ultimately, led to the Human-Covenant War.

That bungies excuse for lack of Elites in ODST makes no sense since the Prophet of Truth knew that the Covenant religion is false. The reason why he along with Mercy and Regret waged war against Humanity was not due to "the will of the gods", but rather because if they absorbed humanity into the Covenant there was a risk that the truth would be revealed that humanity is related to the forerunner, in which case the Covenant would break apart.


Doesn't that also mean Truth never should have betrayed the other prophets and Covenant? That broke the Covenant - what he and others tried to prevent.

Halo2 broke the story? Before this book existed.

I go with games. Books are written by other people although Bungie might consult them a bit. In the end licenced products are never reliable.

[Edited on 06.12.2009 12:07 PM PDT]

  • 06.12.2009 12:06 PM PDT

Posted by: Duardo
I'd love to be a 10 year old and tell my mom I'm going on an adventure out into the world catching Pokemon, with her full support. Never mind the fact that there are rapists, criminals, and murders out there, or the fact that I may get killed by a Pokemon.

Luckily I have Pikachu.

Posted by: kalle90
Doesn't that also mean Truth never should have betrayed the other prophets and Covenant? That broke the Covenant - what he and others tried to prevent.

Halo2 broke the story? Before this book existed.
In my opinion "Truth" wanted to do things more his way rather than having to compete with "Regret" who often acted on impulse rather than thinking. (His attack on Earth made that clear) . "Truth" even made it clear in halo 2 that he was getting tired of politics, "Mercy" and his wise council was also not helping.

Truth simply wanted to be the only hierarch of the Covenant.

I go with games. Books are written by other people although Bungie might consult them a bit. In the end licenced products are never reliable.The books are cannon and are for better or for worse directly linked to the games. Joseph Staten wrote Contact Harvest and he has worked at Bungie studios for years.

  • 06.12.2009 12:21 PM PDT

Check my masterpiece here.

Halo is a game people. The books do not make the story. The games do. The games by Bungie. The books are very good, but don't count on them to fill in the holes in the story.

  • 06.12.2009 12:24 PM PDT

Posted by: Duardo
I'd love to be a 10 year old and tell my mom I'm going on an adventure out into the world catching Pokemon, with her full support. Never mind the fact that there are rapists, criminals, and murders out there, or the fact that I may get killed by a Pokemon.

Luckily I have Pikachu.

Posted by: minibum
Halo is a game people. The books do not make the story. The games do. The games by Bungie. The books are very good, but don't count on them to fill in the holes in the story.
When it comes to the the overall Halo universe.

Books > Games.

The Books offer more details into the Halo story and universe than the Halo games ever could.

  • 06.12.2009 12:32 PM PDT

1.Arkham Asylum, 2.Mass Effect, 3.Halo CE, 4.Mass Effect 2, 5.Halo 2, 6.Splinter Cell Double Agent, 7.Gears of War 2, 8.Medievil, 9.Oblivion, 10.Crash Team Racing

Posted by: The BS Police
Posted by: kalle90
Doesn't that also mean Truth never should have betrayed the other prophets and Covenant? That broke the Covenant - what he and others tried to prevent.

Halo2 broke the story? Before this book existed.
In my opinion "Truth" wanted to do things more his way rather than having to compete with "Regret" who often acted on impulse rather than thinking. (His attack on Earth made that clear) . "Truth" even made it clear in halo 2 that he was getting tired of politics, "Mercy" and his wise council was also not helping.

Truth simply wanted to be the only hierarch of the Covenant.


Maybe. But killing the other prophets, pushing Elites aside and walking towards The Great Journey didn't actually make me think Truth wants to keep the status quo. Until all that plotting Covenant seemed to crush humans while Chief was the only thing standing in the way of victory.

I go with games. Books are written by other people although Bungie might consult them a bit. In the end licenced products are never reliable.The books are cannon and are for better or for worse directly linked to the games. Joseph Staten wrote Contact Harvest and he has worked at Bungie studios for years.


Well that doesn't change my view. Is Halo universe really worth the books or are they more just to get money like the toys and gamefuels?

Knowing more about these things rarely is necessary, like how powerful ODSTs are - I can imagine or see it in game. In cases like this not relying on books seems to be a good thing.
The more the story expands, the more likely contradictions appear. Games leave a lot up to imagination.

[Edited on 06.12.2009 12:44 PM PDT]

  • 06.12.2009 12:42 PM PDT

I don't see how the books change the story. Truth chose brutes because they were easier to control than Elites.

  • 06.12.2009 12:44 PM PDT
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I just figure that somehow, behind regrets back, truth already made the decision to give brutes the higher rank. When the group of covenant was pulling back to get into Regret's ship to jump, The Elites were exclusively called back with the group, still under the impression that they were the most important. This is why the scarab was desperately trying to make it's way back to the ship.

This leaves the rest of the covenant and brutes under Truth, which we see in ODST, to clear out the city and protect the yet to be uncovered portal.

  • 06.12.2009 1:03 PM PDT

"It is impossible to prepare for and prevent a war at the same time"
-Albert Einstein

Posted by: DarthLurtz1
I don't see how the books change the story. Truth chose brutes because they were easier to control than Elites.


Exactly. Even though truth new the religion was a fake, he still had to portray it as being real. He's also really power hungry so if he's gonna light the halo rings, he wants to be the one to do it. Over time he may have actually began to believe the religion again regardless of the evidence against it.

But that still doesn't matter because what I originally posted is an exact quote from bungie. They didn't want to have elites in the game.

Hopefully Halo: Reach will bring back the elites (since it takes place a few days before the events of H1)

  • 06.13.2009 6:30 AM PDT

LW45 TS40 TO40 TSW35 TSN35 TT30 SB30 MLG25

The non-fiction reason for no elites is that bungie decided that the fiction aspect of the game wouldn't be quite right with the elites.

LOLWUT?!

The non-fiction reason wasn't mentioned because it would make Bungie seem lazy; there was no proper enemy Elite AI programmed into the game, and they thought it would be easier to just use all of the pre-existing Brute AI.

  • 06.13.2009 7:33 AM PDT

Self-proclaimed genius.
Roam the streets with a sign, "will love for false hope."

I'm extremely glad you found this. However, people should just read the updates themselves rather than making a dozen posts regarding Brutes replacing Elites in ODST. I hope they read this instead but that demands too much effort from people who don't even wish to search for the thread they want to create.

  • 06.13.2009 7:34 AM PDT

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Posted by: The BS Police

Books > Games.

The Books offer more details into the Halo story and universe than the Halo games ever could.


what if a mission in halo 3 ODST was to read one of these books?

  • 06.13.2009 9:21 AM PDT

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