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  • Subject: Reach to use Natal??? Tell me it aint so Bungie!!!
Subject: Reach to use Natal??? Tell me it aint so Bungie!!!

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Posted by: eljhe
Project natal is optional and yes u can still use the controlla i no i spelt that wrong u grammer nerds relax an
You spelled grammar wrong.

  • 06.12.2009 2:34 PM PDT

STOP.... Hammer Time! - Brute Chieftain

have you seen the preview for the movie "Gamer"? if not heres the link

http://gamerthemovie.com/

now after watching that and i know what your thinking "Natal" yup me too!

let me know what you think!

  • 06.21.2009 6:43 PM PDT

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Posted by: Spencer1519
Posted by: Omnicent
Posted by: Spencer1519
Reach doesn't have to be 100% Natal or 100% controller based. A balanced mix of the two would be awesome. For instance, Natal's voice recognition could be used to A) eliminate the need for headsets B) allow multiple players to issue multiple commands to their own group of marines in co-op or C) allow for the incorporation of interactive trash talking in campaign where your AI opponents are capable of making comebacks when you insult them in certain ways.

That last one would be awesome.


You want to have a computer bad mouthing you?

OK. . .

More like just reacting to my comments. For instance, I insult a Brute's mother, and it has a chance of going into rage mode. The more you do this, the more likely other Brutes are likely to catch on to what you're doing and not rage, but the first one or two would be just about guaranteed. Or threatening to rip a grunts arms off and beat him to death with them (sergeant Johnson style) causes said grunt to panic and run away. Occasionally (perhaps with a certain skull active if Reach has it) there will be combat dialogue where the AI responds to your insults with comedic insults of their own. It would be incredibly immersive to have your dialogue affect the AI.

It would also be pretty awesome to walk up to a marine and be able to vocally interact with them on a basic level. Walk up to marine, give vocal commands for basic strategy, commence attack. You could possibly tall your marines to hang back until you've killed all the Brutes/Elites in an area, then come out guns blazing to clean up the jackals/grunts. Or tell them to charge into battle after you've taken out the snipers.


Have you thought this through?


Imagine someone walking in on you playing Halo, and they hear you yelling at your TV screen "IM GONNA RIP YOUR ARMS OFF"

Try explaining that one.

They're gonna thing you're either a complete psycho, or you're taking the game waaaaaay to seriously.

  • 06.21.2009 7:02 PM PDT
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FPS are targeted towards HC gamers. Natal's target consumer is mainly the Wii gamers and Casual/ Family Gamers

  • 06.21.2009 7:15 PM PDT

Oh yeah It's Rayzed.

I bought the 360 instead of the Wii for a reason:

So I can sit on my ass and play Halo. Natal contradicts the whole plan.

  • 06.21.2009 7:18 PM PDT
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Games are made for Natal, not the other way around. Reach will not require the use of Natal, nor is it very likely that it will utilize it at all given that Reach has a release date and Natal (and its few announced game titles) does not.

Someone mentioned how a really cool scene from the novels could work with Natal:

The coin flip from the beginning of The Fall of Reach... reaching out and grabbing it as John (not necessarily in any particular game, it was just listed as an example), and while that would be incredibly cool, I sincerely doubt it will happen.

Natal is based on the idea of no-controller gaming. FPS games need controllers in some fashion... so the idea of an FPS game being a Natal game is somewhat silly. Again, that's not to say that FPS games won't utilize Natal in interesting ways (Endwar gave us voice commands), but it will not be required. The Halo Franchise is not a Natal franchise, and to suddenly jerk the mode of play in an entirely different direction from what we've come to know and love makes little sense.

The chances of Reach being a Natal game are pretty slim if not nil, and in my opinion, the Halo Franchise meshing with Natal in a significantly game-changing way is also out of the question.

[Edited on 06.21.2009 7:39 PM PDT]

  • 06.21.2009 7:25 PM PDT
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They need to test it with a different fps so they dont ruin halo.

[Edited on 06.21.2009 7:34 PM PDT]

  • 06.21.2009 7:33 PM PDT
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Posted by: Raylette
I bought the 360 instead of the Wii for a reason:

So I can sit on my ass and play Halo. Natal contradicts the whole plan.

you my friend are what embodies a true gamer!

(no insult intended.)

  • 06.21.2009 7:33 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.

It will not happen.

  • 06.21.2009 7:35 PM PDT

Oh yeah It's Rayzed.

Posted by: Recon Number 54
Posted by: Raylette
I bought the 360 instead of the Wii for a reason:

So I can sit on my ass and play Halo. Natal contradicts the whole plan.

Mahhhm, more hot pockets!

You clever shrew....(I was very dissapointed that Youtube has no video of that)

I'll elaborate a bit more then. I like the sound of everything that Recon mentioned. I just don't think a FPS would benefit in any way to the Natal unless it was a rail shooter. i'm still sketchy on wether or not the Natal will even work. I've seen the Demonstrations and the hype, but until I test it myself i'll remain unsure. I liked the concept of the wii as well. But with only a few good titles for mature gamers a year...it became my least favorite console. But Natal will probably become the future of gaming for some. But for others, we'll stick with our good old controllers any day.


  • 06.21.2009 7:37 PM PDT
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Posted by: Recon Number 54
For folks who love new tech, some gamers can be extremely conservative and reluctant to even consider new ideas.

I wouldn't call inclination to familiarity within a single franchise "extremely conservative", nor would I make the rather unprecedented assumption that such players are reluctant to consider new ideas. I personally love the idea of Natal. I just don't love the idea of Natal invading Halo's gamespace and completely altering the structure of its decade-long gameplay. If there are optional functionalities like those you mentioned that do not offer additional details of the halo lore over its contrary, then I'm all for it--otherwise, I'm entirely against it.

There are games I enjoy playing one way, and games I enjoy playing another way. Natal will be amazing fun, and a huge technological innovation for video games...but it should not be applied to games that have come to be known to play a certain way.

  • 06.21.2009 7:42 PM PDT
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Posted by: Achronos
It isn't our shiznit anymore.

People seem to think that FPS games need controllers, because that's all they've ever used in FPS (besides Wii). Just because the controller is the only way you've played FPS games does not mean it is the best way. Have you (the community) even tried playing natal on a FPS game? It's like saying I hate vegetables because they look disgusting, yet I never tasted them.

[Edited on 06.21.2009 7:43 PM PDT]

  • 06.21.2009 7:43 PM PDT
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Posted by: P3P5I
People seem to think that FPS games need controllers, because that's all they've ever used in FPS (besides Wii). Just because the controller is the only way you've played FPS games does not mean it is the best way. Have you (the community) even tried playing natal on a FPS game? It's like saying I hate vegetables because they look disgusting, yet I never tasted them.

Most mainstream FPS games aren't just point and shoot. There are many different functions to cover:

Press X to:
Fire
Throw Grenade
Jump
Crouch
Zoom
Melee
Switch Weapon
Pick-up/Switch Primary Weapon / Item
Pick-up/Switch Secondary Weapon
Flashlight
Scoreboard

etc.

To suddenly mesh all of these things into a controller-free environment would be a huge shock to the way people have gotten used to playing this franchise that I just don't see making any sense. I'm assuming that all of it would involve hand signs or bodily motions to indicate each of these things, some much more difficult to place than others.

It'd be great to have a personally-immersive FPS experience... but not in Halo.

The vegetable analogy is a bit silly. I don't have pre-existing pieces of knowledge, expectations, and certain familiarity when trying new food.

A better analogy would be that this is like chicken suddenly beginning to taste like green beans.

  • 06.21.2009 7:48 PM PDT

Oh yeah It's Rayzed.

Posted by: P3P5I
People seem to think that FPS games need controllers, because that's all they've ever used in FPS (besides Wii). Just because the controller is the only way you've played FPS games does not mean it is the best way. Have you (the community) even tried playing natal on a FPS game? It's like saying I hate vegetables because they look disgusting, yet I never tasted them.

One thing I thought would be very funny about this was the scan system. Being able to scan your own weapon and give it attributes. Running around with a bananna that shoots out rockets sounds lika a blast. But I also realize how childish some people will be.

  • 06.21.2009 7:48 PM PDT

____________(˜˜˜||˜˜˜˜||˜˜˜˜˜)_∏______
l ---------____.`=====.-.~:________\___|================[oo]
|_|||___/___/_/~```|_|_|_|``(o)----------<)

I have faith in bungie, whatever they do willl be fine. It would be sweet to actually feel when you tb@g someone though hehe. I would just prefer to have it stay on my little white buddy: the controller.

[Edited on 06.21.2009 7:55 PM PDT]

  • 06.21.2009 7:54 PM PDT
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Posted by: Achronos
It isn't our shiznit anymore.

Posted by: Dream053
Posted by: P3P5I
People seem to think that FPS games need controllers, because that's all they've ever used in FPS (besides Wii). Just because the controller is the only way you've played FPS games does not mean it is the best way. Have you (the community) even tried playing natal on a FPS game? It's like saying I hate vegetables because they look disgusting, yet I never tasted them.

To suddenly mesh all of these things into a controller-free environment would be a huge shock to the way people have gotten used to playing this franchise that I just don't see making any sense. I'm assuming that all of it would involve hand signs or bodily motions to indicate each of these things, some much more difficult to place than others.


You will be using movements that you use every day in real life. Flashlights will be a switch on your gun, picking up weapons will probably be reaching down (speculation). I believe people are used to behaving in real life and when they first started using controllers everyone was confused on how to use it. But how did you get used to it? You kept playing it. You say we can't memorize all these actions, but controllers have just as many different actions that we memorized just fine. Plus don't forget the programers could use voice commands like "scoreboard" to pull up the scoreboard. Jumping could be going up and down but not necessarily jumping.

And to top your analogy, it would be more like, "This chicken that always tasted like cabbage finally is starting to taste like chicken!" [/analogy]. But since that cabbage tasting chicken is all people have been used to, making it taste different would make people think it tastes wrong.

  • 06.21.2009 8:08 PM PDT

Oh yeah It's Rayzed.

Posted by: P3P5I
Posted by: Dream053
Posted by: P3P5I
People seem to think that FPS games need controllers, because that's all they've ever used in FPS (besides Wii). Just because the controller is the only way you've played FPS games does not mean it is the best way. Have you (the community) even tried playing natal on a FPS game? It's like saying I hate vegetables because they look disgusting, yet I never tasted them.

To suddenly mesh all of these things into a controller-free environment would be a huge shock to the way people have gotten used to playing this franchise that I just don't see making any sense. I'm assuming that all of it would involve hand signs or bodily motions to indicate each of these things, some much more difficult to place than others.


You will be using movements that you use every day in real life. Flashlights will be a switch on your gun, picking up weapons will probably be reaching down (speculation). I believe people are used to behaving in real life and when they first started using controllers everyone was confused on how to use it. But how did you get used to it? You kept playing it. You say we can't memorize all these actions, but controllers have just as many different actions that we memorized just fine. Plus don't forget the programers could use voice commands like "scoreboard" to pull up the scoreboard. Jumping could be going up and down but not necessarily jumping.

And to top your analogy, it would be more like, "This chicken that always tasted like cabbage finally is starting to taste like chicken!" [/analogy]. But since that cabbage tasting chicken is all people have been used to, making it taste different would make people think it tastes wrong.

What about 360 degree turns? I imagined leaning to the side until turned, but I'd rather be able to walk backwards and turn. Natal would be more useful for Rail Shooters than full scale FPS.

  • 06.21.2009 8:12 PM PDT

i rock ready aim fire
while yall rock ready fire aim

why is it assumed that natal can only be used as a childish means of controlling a video game?
none of you have had any face time with natal itself and none of you have any idea what a developer can put it to use for.
i think it is foolish and ignorant to assume that something like natal will ruin any game it touchs
i say until you actually have or use one you need to rest your judgment and find something else to hate that we actually know ruined games and consoles
like the wii.

  • 06.21.2009 8:14 PM PDT

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Posted by: Raylette
Posted by: Recon Number 54
Posted by: Raylette
I bought the 360 instead of the Wii for a reason:

So I can sit on my ass and play Halo. Natal contradicts the whole plan.

Mahhhm, more hot pockets!


I like the sound of everything that Recon mentioned. I just don't think a FPS would benefit in any way to the Natal unless it was a rail shooter.


I was just gonna say that.

  • 06.21.2009 8:19 PM PDT
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Posted by: Achronos
It isn't our shiznit anymore.

Posted by: Raylette
What about 360 degree turns? I imagined leaning to the side until turned, but I'd rather be able to walk backwards and turn. Natal would be more useful for Rail Shooters than full scale FPS.


Yes, I would also like to have an actual virtual reality game that transforms my whole room into a game environment but sadly natal can only do so much. And why is the turning method so bad? It would make the game more realistic until the next Virtual Reality device comes out.

  • 06.21.2009 8:23 PM PDT

Oh yeah It's Rayzed.

Posted by: P3P5I
Posted by: Raylette
What about 360 degree turns? I imagined leaning to the side until turned, but I'd rather be able to walk backwards and turn. Natal would be more useful for Rail Shooters than full scale FPS.


Yes, I would also like to have an actual virtual reality game that transforms my whole room into a game environment but sadly natal can only do so much. And why is the turning method so bad? It would make the game more realistic until the next Virtual Reality device comes out.

That is true. Have you watched the ST8SIS video yet? How I imagine most to play out.

  • 06.21.2009 8:31 PM PDT
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This was Dootuz117 but i changed accounts
M!
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Posted by: just another fan
Yeah, because we all know that weird guys on youtube always speak the truth.

Posted by: Hot Sauce 147
Posting on bungie.net should require that the user has had to have read a chapter book all the way through.

The only thing Natal would add is extrema Tea Bagging

  • 06.21.2009 8:37 PM PDT
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Posted by: P3P5I
You will be using movements that you use every day in real life. Flashlights will be a switch on your gun, picking up weapons will probably be reaching down (speculation). I believe people are used to behaving in real life and when they first started using controllers everyone was confused on how to use it. But how did you get used to it? You kept playing it. You say we can't memorize all these actions, but controllers have just as many different actions that we memorized just fine. Plus don't forget the programers could use voice commands like "scoreboard" to pull up the scoreboard. Jumping could be going up and down but not necessarily jumping.

And to top your analogy, it would be more like, "This chicken that always tasted like cabbage finally is starting to taste like chicken!" [/analogy]. But since that cabbage tasting chicken is all people have been used to, making it taste different would make people think it tastes wrong.

I never said that memorizing the functionalities of Natal would be an issue. The issue here is that Natal's interactivity, especially in fast-paced, active environments, is going to provide a huge amount of physical involvement, and if not carefully designed, will quickly tire out its players. Do I really want to have to bend down every time I want to pick up a new gun? Not really. Do I want to jump up every time I want my character to jump? God no. Hell, what happens when I want to crouchjump? I haven't mastered that in real life quite yet. Those kinds of motions are pretty close to the edge of Natal's span of appeal, to be perfectly honest.

My whole point is that people enjoy playing Halo via the controller, from the comfort of their couch, and, for better or for worse, without having to actively be physical to do so. In a fast-paced environment such as a Halo FPS game, attempting to actively utilize motion as well as voice recognition commands as quick responses would be difficult for many gamers, and I'd venture to name that group the majority. It would seriously dumb down the experience, and that's not even the worst of it.

You mention that flashlight might be a button on a gun. What gun are you referring to? An "air" gun that we motion to hold so Natal can recognize it? Even pulling the trigger? That seems a bit far-fetched to me. Even if Natal has those kind of detailed recognition capabilities, how would turning your camera work? Looking up? Looking down? Turning around?

For Natal to work in FPS, I sincerely doubt it will truly be a controller-free environment, and will likely have some kind of provided peripheral. Otherwise, what is the point of trying to mesh Natal with an FPS game at all? The point of Natal is to create true interaction and help the experience become much more real. Playing with an "air gun" kind of brings about the opposite.

I honestly believe that Natal wasn't made, and won't be made for games like Halo. That's just not what it seems to be designed for. Halo isn't an interactive game. Halo is a run-and-gun shooter.

That said, I'm not adverse to the idea of Natal being used for something along the lines of what Halo: Chronicles was described to be. An interactive game/movie sounds like the perfect description of a Natal game. But a true FPS? I don't see it happening.

If it happens, great, I hope the system they build is an easy-to-play one... but the headlining Halo FPS titles are much more complicated, fast-paced, reactive, and mechanically complex than most others.

This is the sort of thing I see happening in larger arcades, kind of like the motion-sensing Tekken stage that would translate a player's body movements into character moves, or like those three-dimensional FPS games that you play with a helmet over your head to provide the illusion that you're actually in the game.

Natal is a huge innovation, but I really don't see FPS games being a huge part of it, unless they are specifically designed for Natal. That kind of innovation isn't quite here yet.

As for your analogy, you're basically reiterating exactly what I said, but are simply taking the opposite side that I am. Such a thing would not exist if people did not enjoy it, which means changing it will hurt that enjoyment for many people. Trying to compare cabbage-tasting chicken to the current Halo franchise is pretty ridiculous and inaccurate, too, so let us avoid analogies altogether from now on.

If they can figure out an effective and appealing way to utilize Natal in Halo games, then I will be more than happy... as long as it is an optional mode of play. And as for other Halo projects such as interactive movies/games (if Chronicles is ever made), I welcome it being an entirely-Natal game. But as I said, from what we know about technology, and what we know about Natal, it just doesn't seem viable.

[Edited on 06.22.2009 2:43 AM PDT]

  • 06.22.2009 12:34 AM PDT