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This topic has moved here: Subject: Bungie fans should be respectable!
  • Subject: Bungie fans should be respectable!
Subject: Bungie fans should be respectable!
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I honestly think that we Bungie/Halo fans need to work on our image. This became especially evident to me last night as I was reading the Update. That whole fiasco at Penny Arcade just shows how bad things really are. If you decide to wade through the pages of mass immaturity shown by both Penny Arcade members and visiting Bungie fans, you'll see what I mean. This is not a post flaming the Penny Arcade members and moderators. This is not a post complaining about Bungie fans. This is a post saying that we Bungie fans should become deserving of respect among other Internet junkies.

So what, then, is a good image to have? Very simply, our image should cause others to say that 'Bungie fans are civil, intelligent, reasonable, and polite.' So we should never be flamers or trollers. If you disagree with someone, go ahead and voice your opinion; but don't call them a moron in the process. If someone else has said something that's completely ludicrous, simply say 'Hey, actually this is the case. . . . Here is the proof.' Can you see the difference between that and "Shut up you bleeping moron! I've never seen a more bleeping idiotic person in all my days! I can't believe you could possibly bleeping think that bleepity bleep bleep bleep!' You're gonna get a much better result from the first option than with the second. The first will likely either put an end to the discussion if you've offered irrefutable proof in a logical, reasoning manner; or it will open the topic up for more civil discussion. The latter will almost certainly start a long, mind-numbing flamewar.

I understand that when someone says something completely rediculous, in your opinion, it may at times be difficult to remain civil and to reason with him intelligently. But if you don't, chances are it won't work (unless your entire intent is to insult and flame away), and you'll just make yourself look bad. And if you are able to exert self-control and are able to put together a valid point coherently, chances are people will begin to respect you.

That brings up the touchy topic of swearing (or cursing, whatever you prefer to call it). Whether or not you choose to use swearing in your language is up to you and your individual conscience. I personally don't swear. But always keep in mind the image it portrays of you. If the best word you can think of is an offensive swear word, it probably will do little to get your point across besides showing that you're angry. Just think of those on forums that you know usually get responded to negatively. Don't they usually use slightly incoherent speach with a lot of swear words spliced in (strangely, it seems to me that the swear words are most often spelled correctly)?

So, what do we do if the others we're communicating with start acting immaturely by flaming and trolling and etc.? Well, what are we supposed to do when somebody in real life starts yelling, shouting, flinging insults, pushing, and shoving? We're supposed to remain calm and walk away, right? Of course! True, this is many times difficult to actually do. But if we succeed, the other person will probably start feeling silly and will calm down. If they don't, they're likely to be cuffed and dragged off to jail for disturbing the peace, leaving you alone in peace. If you're the vengeful sort, remember that they'll probably feel pretty humiliated; and any bruises (physical and/or emotional) you've received will be paid for by that other person. The same is true on Internet forums. If the other continues to rant and rave as you remain peaceful and intelligent-sounding, he's likely in for some type of punishment from the moderators. You'll be left alone with the satisfaction that you came out the better of the instance, and others will begin to respect you more.

This isn't to say that we should all be wusses who never stand up for ourselves. On the contrary, our words will deal much more powerful blows if they're wielded carefully. Just like two people fencing. Sure one guy could start swinging his sword around madly and making fierce lunges, and he'll probably look pretty impressive if he pulls it off. But while he's tiring himself out, you can make one careful jab and hit your pre-intended sweet spot.

Now, even if what others think of you personally doesn't matter to you, how do you feel about how it reflects on Bungie and their carefully crafted community? When others talk about Bungie fans (and by extension, the name attached to it), do you want them to be saying things like 'Those Bungie fans are real morons. I hope those kids don't infect our forums.' Or would you rather prefer them saying 'Dude! Those Bungie fans are all civil, intelligent, reasonable, and polite. I hope some of them come over here. Better yet, I wanna become one of them!' Doesn't it matter to you how other people (and keep in mind that behind those sometimes silly screen names are actual people) feel about Bungie Studios and your fellow fans? If so, it's all up to us to craft that perception into something desireable.

One of the reasons I bring up how others feel is because this exact thing happened yesterday in the first page of the Bungie Update thread on the Penny Arcade forums. One guy pointed to a thread on one of our forums and said "The kids over at the Bungie.net forums arent the sharpest tools in the shed. I mean, just look at [u]this post[/i] [that was a link to one of our threads]. I hope they dont migrate." Honestly, after looking at the thread myself, I don't blame him for feeling that way. I'm sure the problem wasn't just the thread author's idea. Instead, it must have been the absolutely immature way that other members of the community reacted. As one poster commented in that thread, if someone had simply pointed out from the get-go in a logical and reasoning manner just why the author was wrong, the rest of that flamewar could've been averted. Unfortunately, that didn't happen; and the result was a very bad testimony of our own respectability to other forums

This underlines the fact that we need to make sure that we're civil not only when visiting others' forums, but at our home base as well.

So, to try to wrap all this up, what we all need to do is to watch ourselves; make sure that at all times we're doing things that would bring respect to the Bungie name. I comes down, really, to each of us as individuals.

I just hope I didn't forget anything important. . . .

Just my thoughts,
Poocho :)

  • 07.17.2004 2:13 PM PDT

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I saw that post in the topic and saw what nab meant a couple of weeks ago. Alot of the people on the other Bungie forums are flamers, or trolls. There are quite a few respectable people in the Bungie community, but the majority is bad. People need to just calm down and not be so rude when answering questions. And not immature.

  • 07.17.2004 2:47 PM PDT

That Weekly Update thread was horrible. I think that both Penny Arcade forumites (who seemed to needlessly criticise Frankie) and bungie.netters (who actually retaliated) should be ashamed of themselves. Don't do it again. If you see something like that then just ignore it, and let Frankie get himself banned again ;-)
By the way Poocho, which thread were they referring to?

  • 07.17.2004 4:25 PM PDT
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I found it interesting that they claimed to have "stopped the anger" ( the PA nintendo comic reader club ) when they continued to criticize ( or attempt to provoke Frankie with a bit of an attitude - You know the one that says "I'm not touching you" when they are pretty much violating your space/self) A shame that a couple of yahoos from here at B.net posted horrible stuff that made me feel really weak. I, honestly would have helped the B.nets, but by the time I saw all those posts- people just stopped.

I think there is one way to anger people, and that is to be funny. Unfortunately there was " u have sex wit ur mom" or something like that. Now there's a difference between pitiful funny, and pwned funny, but I won't get into that.

Just let them read their comics

-BAM-

-OOF-

WHOOSH

WHOA


And just maybe they will all stop getting hyped up from Comic book bubble, ginormous text and stop taking it out on Frankie. Seriously, if I read gigantic text that much ( which translates to yelling such as HI OMG translates to someone screaming in a retarded voice- wouldn't you go mad?)

But the " who actually retaliated" part made me feel kinda special, and loyal in a way- like I belonged to an arm- Okay nevermind.

  • 07.18.2004 3:55 AM PDT

Unfortunately there was " u have sex wit ur mom" or something like that.
I'm disappointed that there weren't a few "Your mom" jokes. Frankie should've definitely posted the "Bungie Studios: Satisfying your mom since 1991" quote.

  • 07.18.2004 4:13 AM PDT

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Yeah, it was the insults that got me mad but it was the fantastic crudity, banality, and plain unimaginativeness of the insults that eventually led me to stop following that thread. Sheesh. It was like visiting the primate exhibit at the zoo.

Oh well, I guess there's a limit to what they can type one-handed.

I'm disappointed that there weren't a few "Your mom" jokes.
Yeah, and I was working up a couple too until I realised that I'd be just as much a loser as them if I let them drag me there.

-- Steve's saving them for a better occasion... heh heh heh...

  • 07.18.2004 6:13 AM PDT
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I shouldn't have fought em' as long as I did, but I can't pass up a fight with a buncha elitist jerks or I become somthing I hate.

  • 07.18.2004 2:20 PM PDT
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*Whew!* I'm glad nobody got mad at me for denouncing fellow Bungie.netters. I was worried a rotten apple would jump on the thread and turn it into a flame war. I th ink Shishka rightfully locked it.

Any way, Goweb, you can find the embarrassing thread I referred to here. I didn't post the link to it at first because I didn't want to embarrass the author. After all, the reason I brought it up in the first place was to scold everyone else who posted in that thread (there were a few who had the right idea, but they were the minority). I wanted to show that even the immaturity we show here on our home turf can affect the community at large's perception of Bungie.netters, so we always have to be careful.

Also, I forgot to include that I was worried about what further reactions Bungie.netters might make. I heard some inciting in a thread or two that we should bear arms against PA and all assault them with a flood of spam some time this week--just to get back at them. IMO, this is the last thing we want to do! This will only serve to solidify any opinions they may have that Bungie.netters are all mindless little kids. I hate to put it this way, but if you really want to "hurt" them, wouldn't it be even more deadly to lessen their ranks and add to ours? I mean, wouldn't we rather impress them that Bungie.netters are quite a group of intelligent, reasoning forum-goers? Who knows, maybe some of them may just see the light and join our ranks.

If anything, we should begin a campaign in which mature BNs (Bungie.netters) head out to foreign forums, spend some time establishing themselves as useful, respectable members of the community, and then reveal that they themselves frequent the Bungie.net forums. Even if this doesn't convince them to become one of us, at least that BN ambassador is giving good testimony to what BNs are like. Strangely enough, I envision this as a sort of missionary campaign. :)

Of course, before we start drawing others to us, we should first make sure we're something that they'd want to check out. If other BNs start attesting that this is a mature (mature as in respectable, not as in "For 'Mature' eyes only) forum environment, we should make sure that that is true.

Honestly, I'm not all that sure how to get this to happen. The only way for this to happen will be for the majority of BNs here to start acting maturely. Which means that many will have to admit that they need to change. How will we get this to happen? I'm not sure. I hate to put any more responsibility on the shoulders of the Mods, but perhaps from now on when they warn any BNs that their actions are in some way inappropriate, they could give a more detailed explanation of why, and then they could point them to a clear "Forum Guidelines" page further explaining what kind of environment we're trying to craft here. It's possible such a page exists, but is it simple enough that a person could simply go over the main points quickly enough to actually get something out of it? After all, if it's like a "Terms and Conditions" statement, well . . . who of us actually reads those 2000 page documents anyway?

I think this is something we should seriously consider.

Just my suggestions,
Poocho :)

  • 07.20.2004 2:51 PM PDT

With B.B. gone, the passion of Bungie.net has lessened.

Its a problem that cannot be solved, I'm afraid to say. Immaturity is everywhere, unfortunately...

Or, I suppose there is a way to solve it.... Ban everyone who says stupid things... But then B.net wouldn't have such a large number of fans and "fans."

I have a question, though... does the profanity filter really do any good? I mean, people post the words anyway... they get bleeped out... but one can usually guess what the "blam" is reffering to... But perhaps its just to keep angry parents from calling Bungie Studios and complaining about how swears are shown openly... or something that has to do with leagalities of some sort...

  • 07.20.2004 3:14 PM PDT

Knowing what the "blam" means is different to actually seeing the word. I mean, some people may not even know those types of words (it's possible), or may only be offended when they see them.

  • 07.20.2004 5:47 PM PDT

With B.B. gone, the passion of Bungie.net has lessened.

True, I suppose...

Perhaps someday no one will care about cusses...

  • 07.20.2004 5:50 PM PDT
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I think that we owe Poocho a BIG round of applause *claps*. He has hit the nail on the head when he talks about how we should act. Being an Eagle scout and a former student ambassador to the UK, Ireland, and Australia, I know the importance of a good first impression. Unfortunately, many of the other B.netters don't. I think that it is up to all of us to try and convey that message to the others who may not live up to Poocho's (and hopefully the rest of our) high expectations of our forum goers.

-Baerdog7

  • 07.20.2004 8:13 PM PDT
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Yes... it was a very shameful occurrence indeed. As it is, this ties pretty close with some of the things said in the "what is your age?" poll in the Underground... I believe one of the most recent comments was about people using their anonymity to act tough and pick fights (generally those young/immature people)
There isn't a solution for such rash behaviour... It just means that in order to get a better appearance, bungie has to kind of secret those people away and use the more exemplary posters as their delegates :P...
People really just need to think before they post, and act more like they're talking to someone (ie not picking fights and showing a bit more respect)

  • 07.21.2004 2:31 AM PDT
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Sadly thats what happens these days. It seems the people that have been here a while did not get involved much in this flame war at the penny-arcade. This is not to say that the newer group of people is uncontrolable, its just that they really don't know how to act in those situations, so they retaliate and think they are avenging the bungie name. Well I think most of those people who have read this topic now know thats not the way to do things, and are sorry for there actions. Also, I don't think theres many regulars from the septagon that participated in it either...

  • 07.21.2004 7:31 AM PDT
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Posted by: goweb
Unfortunately there was " u have sex wit ur mom" or something like that.
I'm disappointed that there weren't a few "Your mom" jokes. Frankie should've definitely posted the "Bungie Studios: Satisfying your mom since 1991" quote.



I was going to throw some out, but I felt it was just stuping to their level.

And in response to the thread; no matter what forum you are on, you will always have those are act immature when threatened, because they get defensive. Think about it, if someone was attacking something you loved, wouldn't you get defensive too? This by no means is an excuse for people's behavior, just a simple explanation.

  • 07.21.2004 11:51 AM PDT
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When I read trough this thread, a few quotes popped into my head:

"Never argue with a fool. He will just drag you down to his level and beat you with experience."

And:

"It's wise to be smart"

  • 07.21.2004 1:16 PM PDT
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hm. ^^

  • 07.21.2004 1:25 PM PDT
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yep ur right.

  • 07.21.2004 1:25 PM PDT

I was going to throw some out, but I felt it was just stuping to their level.
Nah - just a tradition.

  • 07.21.2004 4:35 PM PDT
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Yeah, I've read a few threads that have me ashamed. Newcommers get flamed constantly. I'm suprised some of them stick around at all. If the newcommer is a jerk, that's one thing, but most of the time they are just reposting ancient material or starting some other non-offensive thread. Besides a lack of maturity, a lack of patience is also a problem.

  • 07.21.2004 5:53 PM PDT
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Yep, if someone new comes in and makes a thread that may have been a week or so ago, then some people (who apparently aren't thinking well) just flame the guy by calling him a noob and such. I mean I get tired when i get asked questions over and over too, but it dosen't that i can just lash out against the guy. You just help him out, or just ignor it. This goes back to the old saying "If you can't say anything nice, then don't say anything at all."

  • 07.21.2004 6:39 PM PDT

bah

Hey, so what we need is to become to people who aimlessly flame noobs for being complete idiots! Then, they'll learn to shut up unless they have anything intelligent to say! Who's with me? No one? Good. I'm an army of one anyways...

  • 07.21.2004 10:42 PM PDT
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I think Bungie fans should be a receptacle

  • 07.21.2004 11:11 PM PDT