Halo: Reach Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: Why HALO: REACH must be the Halo: CE of Xbox 360 (with fresh info!)
  • Subject: Why HALO: REACH must be the Halo: CE of Xbox 360 (with fresh info!)
Subject: Why HALO: REACH must be the Halo: CE of Xbox 360 (with fresh info!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om1yZYyY9lY&hd=1

Hi everyone, I'm Paolo and I'm Italian, so sorry for my bad written english...

Well, I wish to create this topic to talk about of what Bungie DID in the last generation of games, with Halo 1 on the first Xbox, and what they DIDN'T (but they could do it if only they really wanted) in this, brand new and still fully-unexplored generation of new games and potential, with Halo 3...

Halo: Combat Evolved was something that rebooted the history of games, something that was created with only one objective in mind: create the most entertaing, revolutionary (or at least the most evolutionary), complete and advanced game possible, supporting and squeezing every bit and possibilities of a single hardware to its limit and creating an universe totally new and deep.

In 2001 it was a game that already showed:

-Open, sandbox, environment
-Large scale human and vehicle combat, with large number of enemies
-Future graphics elements like Bump-mapping, Vertex Shading, Hi-res textures, complex lightings.
-A physic engine (before Havok!) that simply worked perfectly within the universe
-Was one of the first (if not the first) title to support real, full, Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround music and sound
-It created a Gameplay that EVERY Fps (if not title in general) emulated on consoles until now, from the control scheme to the balance and variety of the situations.
-It was simply the best Campaign experience AND the best Multiplayer experience in one single game

And we're talking about the "first" Xbox, an Intel Celeron 733Mhz single-core with a Geforce 3 and 64MB of RAM...TOTAL (between data and video)...

With Halo 2 Bungie tried to optimize everything created with Halo 1 on the same machine, so: they tried to surpass themselves...and they PARTIALLY did it, with the awesome multiplayer online via Xbox Live and revamped Gameplay, but not in Campaign (that was epic, but not so epic like HALO:CE)...and the fast developing left behind too many bugs and flaws...but was ok.


But with Halo 3...
With Halo 3 they had a MONSTER hardware like Xbox 360, they could reboot it all over again like Halo CE did, creating something totally (r)evolutionary, but they DIDN'T.
I love Halo 3, but this game it's like "Well, they initially wanted to release it on the first Xbox" to me...
It uses the same Halo 2 engine (a 2004 engine, created for old hardware), "only" revamped (and converted) in every aspect for the new power at disposal, but it wasn't "new from scratch" like Halo CE was, it was like "Halo 2.5 in High Definition, a Good Conclusion to the Saga"...

I repeat: I LOVE HALO 3, it remains my favourite game of 360, but I was really disappointed by not seeing what I saw in Halo 1 actualized in 2007...

So, that's the point: HALO REACH. This time:

-I hope that Bungie conserved it even BEFORE the devoloping of Halo 3
-I hope that it will use brand new engine and engineering created shoulder to shoulder with Microsoft FROM SCRATCH around the real 360 hardware and the real power and possibilities that 360 has to offer (at least like KillZone 2 did on PS3, after YEARS of developing)
-I hope they will RE-EVOLVE again what they've created so far with the past 3 games, but in this generation and with this REAL possibilities, for examples: Mindblowing Graphics, Physics, Interactivity/Destructibility of the environment, size and complexity of the fights, DEDICATED SERVERS, large number of players)
-I simply hope that Halo: Reach will make me feel the same emotions I felt with Halo 1 on 2001...but in 2010, when it'll be released, if not even stronger and glorious. Halo 2 and 3 still remain two of my favourite games of all time...but those "emotions", I remember those emotions only with Halo CE...

...and I simply hope that Halo: Reach will "reach" them... =)

Thanks for reading.
And THANKS BUNGIE!
You guys will always be more special...

EDIT:
POSSIBLE FRESH NEW INFOs @PAGE 3 !!!!!!!!!!!

EDIT #2:

This is one of my first personal trailer I ever created on my PC, it was my tribute to the Halo Universe and shows a lot of good stuff from Halo 1 and the first E3 demos of Halo 2, in 2003 and 2004: Check it Out! And let me know what you think... :)

EDIT #3:
A great post/tribute to Halo 1, thanks x Wayne Venus x for writing!

Posted by: x Wayne Venus x
Last week, I figured I'd pop in Halo: CE to play the Campaign again, mostly for nostalgic reasons.


Turns out, I had forgotten how EPIC Halo:CE campaign really was. Honestly, every weapon was useful, every level was amazing (exception: the Library), and it just felt....fun.


I really don't know how to explain it. I'm pretty sure it was the HUGE open environments, and the memorable, distinct levels.


Who could forget Truth and Reconciliation? You were dropped in at night with a Sniper Rifle(with extended ammo) and Night Vision, and you were tasked with taking out as many Covenant as you could, without alarming the rest. And that was just the beginning of the level.

Unforgettable


How bout The Silent Cartographer? Not exactly the best level, but I could replay the opening beach assault countless times, just because it was crafted beautifully. I group of Marines and yourself, charging up an enemy beach head. The quickness of the assault, the frantic firefights.

Brilliant.


Assault on the Control Room? The first level you experience the tank, the massive vehicular battles, the feeling of importance to your objectives. The many times where you could take out a whole army of grunts, just by quietly sneaking around and smacking them while they slept.

Exceptional


Two Betrayals? When everything comes together, you find out the truth. The 4 way battles: Flood, Covenant, Sentinels, and of course you. It was FUN deciding which side to aid when you came across two sided fighting. If done correctly, you could fight only one or two enemies instead of fighting a whole group, by whittling away at both sides. And the wide open feel of flying a banshee around at night.

Amazing


And don't even get me started on the ending. Sheer brilliance. Frantically racing a warthog through a ship to escape?

Masterfully crafted.


Every other Halo game has never had memorable levels such as these. Both Halo 2 and Halo 3 were missing night levels, which I feel greatly added to the mood and tone of Halo 1. Also missing were the stealthy levels, which I'm hoping Halo 3:ODST will have.





TL;DR

Bring back the wide-openness of Halo.
Bring back night levels.
Bring back stealth elements.



And from what I've seen so far, this is essentially what Halo 3:ODST. That's why I'm so excited for this game.


[Edited on 06.22.2009 3:01 PM PDT]

  • 06.15.2009 3:17 PM PDT
Subject: Why HALO: REACH must be the Halo: CE of Xbox 360
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Good post; I really hope they revamp the graphics engine for Reach and make it the best looking game out there

  • 06.15.2009 3:27 PM PDT
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First of all, i'm pumped for the possibility of fighting elites again. Brutes are too static as enemies. I think this game has great potential to be like CE with that in mind. Secondly, for English not being your first language, you have some really well written ideas here and great job!

  • 06.15.2009 3:32 PM PDT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om1yZYyY9lY&hd=1

Posted by: darw92
Posted by: P40L0 360
With Halo 3 they had a MONSTER hardware like Xbox 360.

I love xbox 360 i only have an xbox 360 and like it far more than the ps3 and i love halo but the xbox 360 is not that powerful and many game developers are using the term 'maxed out' to describe it. The game may pull off good graphics but keep in mind its not that easy

Well, I think that it's easier then programming on PS3 ;)
And after seeing a lot of multi-platform games (and engines) like: Assassin's Creed, Far Cry 2, Resident Evil 5, or PC-Engines optimized for console (like Unreal Engine 3 based games, like Gears of War 1,2, Bioshock and Mass Effect, or the new CryEngine 3 for Crysis 2)...

...well, I think that a NATIVE, fresh and exclusive technology born for Xbox 360 in its full maturity can easily reach the visual impact of KillZone 2 at least.
And I think that after seeing how they pushed the first Xbox, Bungie can raise the bar even more...if they really want: they have all the money, all the time, all the people and all the resources to do that.

Let's hope so...

  • 06.15.2009 4:21 PM PDT

Perception is everything.

Posted by: dirtyShisno 213
Halo 3 was built from the ground up. It uses a new engine, not the Halo 2 engine. BTW, I think Halo 3 looks really good. The texturing is amazing. The weapon, vehicle, and armor models look good too.

They're most likely doing the same for Reach. And I have a feeling it's gonna look awesome.
Ya, they stated a while back ago that halo 3:ODST was the first game created using the same engine(halo 3's engine)and their artists realized they could do a lot more with the engine.

  • 06.15.2009 4:35 PM PDT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om1yZYyY9lY&hd=1

Posted by: dirtyShisno 213
Halo 3 was built from the ground up. It uses a new engine, not the Halo 2 engine. BTW, I think Halo 3 looks really good. The texturing is amazing. The weapon, vehicle, and armor models look good too.

They're most likely doing the same for Reach. And I have a feeling it's gonna look awesome.

That's not right.
From Halo 1 to Halo 2 the engine was totally redone, and they were even on the same console.
But from Halo 2 to Halo 3 I noticed A LOT of similarities of the engines, from texture to animations, to polygons. They kinda taken the Halo 2 engine and powered to max in every aspect, but they haven't created a new engine (see the last run of Halo 3 for examples, the floor that blows off the ground...it's really Halo 2 there, nothing more).

And I can understand to take the Halo 2 base, especially for multiplayer. They've decided to not risk...

...but now I want them to risk with Reach, and I hope to REALLY see something REALLY new...

  • 06.15.2009 5:16 PM PDT

Go Rams and Missouri!

Halo CE was important because it was a launch title and the first great game on Xbox. That can't happen with a system 3 and a half years old.

  • 06.15.2009 5:53 PM PDT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om1yZYyY9lY&hd=1

Posted by: Unseen Blade
Halo CE was important because it was a launch title and the first great game on Xbox. That can't happen with a system 3 and a half years old.


I believe it can. There are only multi-platform games or exclusives that don't push 360 like many titles did with the previous one.
It still can be possible... =)

  • 06.15.2009 6:05 PM PDT

Halo CE was not a launch title and it made the xbox because of the multiplayer and its good gameplay. People overplay how evolutionary it was, nothing was that evolutionary it just did everything very very well.

  • 06.15.2009 6:07 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.

Paolo I agree with what you said here but you have to appreciate how good halo 3 is because even though it was rushed it was an outstanding game for its time period. Halo 3 was made it 2007 it has graphics that are as good [if not better] than games made in 2009.

  • 06.15.2009 6:10 PM PDT

Posted by: Unseen Blade
Halo CE was important because it was a launch title and the first great game on Xbox. That can't happen with a system 3 and a half years old.



Mh. Halo CE was the first great game on the Xbox and is still the best Halo game ever made, and still the best game made on Xbox & 360. Your saying they can't make another great game on a console that they already built one engine and a great game on? You sir have might have some of your facts straight, but you don't know what you're talking about.

I agree with the OP, but don't you think that Bungie realizes this? I would certainly hope so.

If you notice now that Bungie isn't directly under M$ thumb they are starting to delve into what they've been wanting to for years, and are taking ODST and mixing and balancing together the semi-open world with it still being Linear in a sense. I really think we can come to expect this and it expanded upon in Reach.

I really do hate publishers, especially ones like M$. I hate sony too, and especially Nintendo. I really only like a few developers like Bungie and Valve, people who are always taking things to the next level.

  • 06.15.2009 6:20 PM PDT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om1yZYyY9lY&hd=1

Posted by: Xd00999
Paolo I agree with what you said here but you have to appreciate how good halo 3 is because even though it was rushed it was an outstanding game for its time period. Halo 3 was made it 2007 it has graphics that are as good [if not better] than games made in 2009.

I'm not talking about only of graphics, but of the game as a whole. Battlefield Bad Company, for example, was created with in mind the new hardware and the new possibilities, and has huge sandbox maps with good graphics, awesome destructibility of environments, large scale battles, dedicated servers and much more. Halo 3 is too much linked with past games on the first Xbox, and the differences between Halo 1 and Halo 2 on the same console were a lot more then the differences between Halo 2 and Halo 3, with a giant leap of the power and the hardware, and that's a shame... :(

I'm only saying that Bungie can do A LOT more if they want, I know that for sure, and I'm only eager to see it as soon as possible, hoping that it's of Halo: Reach that I'm talking about... :)

  • 06.15.2009 6:21 PM PDT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om1yZYyY9lY&hd=1

Posted by: Blackprinze
Posted by: Unseen Blade
Halo CE was important because it was a launch title and the first great game on Xbox. That can't happen with a system 3 and a half years old.


If you notice now that Bungie isn't directly under M$ thumb they are starting to delve into what they've been wanting to for years,

I totally agree with that part. More freedom may mean more Quality =D

  • 06.15.2009 6:24 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.

Posted by: P40L0 360
Posted by: Xd00999
Paolo I agree with what you said here but you have to appreciate how good halo 3 is because even though it was rushed it was an outstanding game for its time period. Halo 3 was made it 2007 it has graphics that are as good [if not better] than games made in 2009.

I'm not talking about only of graphics, but of the game as a whole. Battlefield Bad Company, for example, was created with in mind the new hardware and the new possibilities, and has huge sandbox maps with good graphics, awesome destructibility of environments, large scale battles, dedicated servers and much more. Halo 3 is too much linked with past games on the first Xbox, and the differences between Halo 1 and Halo 2 on the same console were a lot more then the differences between Halo 2 and Halo 3, with a giant leap of the power and the hardware, and that's a shame... :(

I'm only saying that Bungie can do A LOT more if they want, I know that for sure, and I'm only eager to see it as soon as possible, hoping that it's of Halo: Reach that I'm talking about... :)
I know what you mean. Bad company is great and halo has a lot of room they can improve in. Little details really go a long way in a game.

  • 06.15.2009 6:34 PM PDT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om1yZYyY9lY&hd=1

Posted by: Xd00999
Posted by: P40L0 360
Posted by: Xd00999
Paolo I agree with what you said here but you have to appreciate how good halo 3 is because even though it was rushed it was an outstanding game for its time period. Halo 3 was made it 2007 it has graphics that are as good [if not better] than games made in 2009.

I'm not talking about only of graphics, but of the game as a whole. Battlefield Bad Company, for example, was created with in mind the new hardware and the new possibilities, and has huge sandbox maps with good graphics, awesome destructibility of environments, large scale battles, dedicated servers and much more. Halo 3 is too much linked with past games on the first Xbox, and the differences between Halo 1 and Halo 2 on the same console were a lot more then the differences between Halo 2 and Halo 3, with a giant leap of the power and the hardware, and that's a shame... :(

I'm only saying that Bungie can do A LOT more if they want, I know that for sure, and I'm only eager to see it as soon as possible, hoping that it's of Halo: Reach that I'm talking about... :)
I know what you mean. Bad company is great and halo has a lot of room they can improve in. Little details really go a long way in a game.

That's right :)
And if I'm correct, Halo: Reach is under development for at least...two years right now, is that right? And when it will be released will be 3 (if not 4) years of development :O They can really do everything they want in 4 years, anything...

  • 06.15.2009 6:42 PM PDT

Posted by: cB4d93
Posted by: Silent Eli
you are a good translator
Idiot can be a hard language to learn, but once you get it down, everything becomes so clear! The whole world will make sense to you.

What made Halo: CE so good for me was following the story and suprises in store. Who saw the flood coming?

If bungie can recreate the mysterious vibe of CE in Reach, unlike in the two sequels where most of the suprises you saw coming because you encountered them in CE.

  • 06.15.2009 6:42 PM PDT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om1yZYyY9lY&hd=1

Posted by: mgal3
for English not being your first language, you have some really well written ideas here and great job!

Thanks very much! :)

  • 06.16.2009 9:40 AM PDT
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The main difference in my opinion that made Halo CE the best was the campaign. i loved the campaign it was so unexpected and you had no idea what would happen next. Halo 3, the campaign was a blast, i loved it. its just i could almost predict what would happen. On crows nest i Knew the covenant would invade the base and it would be up to you to save everyone. it was fun but with halo CE i mean just so unpredictable. Lets hope bungie can make Reach surpass Halo CE. i feel confident bungie can pull it off. look what they've done in the past. Regardless. the trilogy of Halo are the best games ever created. hands down

[Edited on 06.16.2009 10:25 AM PDT]

  • 06.16.2009 10:24 AM PDT

oO( Underdogg13 )Oo

Wow, you've described all the hopes I had for the graphics and game engine for Reach ever since it was announced. Great post, and I think it's better when they start from scratch, but they've only been working on it for two years, so it might not be substantially better.

  • 06.16.2009 10:29 AM PDT

"I wanted to make people happy, if only for an hour."
-Busby Berkley

RIP Halo 2

We could only be so lucky.

  • 06.16.2009 10:31 AM PDT

Very well written post (to the OP) and i think Bungie is already doing this in ODST so i think Reach will be even more kickass.

  • 06.16.2009 10:33 AM PDT

-You look like you could suck a golf ball through a waterhose.

This was well written Paolo, the way you wrote it made it seem like you cared and not just dogging on Bungie about everything they didn't do. Very good.

BTW your English is pretty good. Lol.

[Edited on 06.16.2009 10:49 AM PDT]

  • 06.16.2009 10:48 AM PDT