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This topic has moved here: Subject: Should Bungie Allow Flag Running in Halo Reach?
  • Subject: Should Bungie Allow Flag Running in Halo Reach?
Subject: Should Bungie Allow Flag Running in Halo Reach?

I realize that this is a sensitive topic amongst many people, so I'm going to take the time to try to make the OP as unbiased as possible. Please honor my effort by not flaming the heck out of people in this thread, post intelligently, attack the ideas, not the speaker, basic stuff we all learned in kindergarten. If you guys come up with other pro / con points than the ones I mentioned, then I will be happy to add them.

First, what is flag running?

If you have played Halo for a while, you probably have seen flag runners in action. In default CTF settings, the flag carrier moves slower than a normal player while he holds the flag. To get around this, clever players found out that if they drop the flag ahead of them and then pick it up very rapidly, they could move at normal speed while still carrying the flag, allowing for quick transport of the flag.

Some people believe that flag running is cheap. They argue that since Bungie clearly intended for the flag carrier to move slowly, thinking outside of the box to circumvent this game mechanic ruins the spirit of the game. They think that when an attacker grabs the flag, he should try to stealthily leave the base, and have his team mates back him up as he makes his slow retreat across the map, as his team mates back him up, defending him while the other team searches for their lost flag and attempt to retrieve it. Others simply believe that it is annoying as hell to hear the announcer say "Flag stolen flag dropped flag stolen flag dropped..." over and over.

Other people believe that flag running is a legitimate strategy. They argue that flag running is no different than camping or supressing an enemy advance with battle rifle fire, it is just another tactic. If the other team can't counter it, then that is their problem, they could do it just as easily. They point out that there is a clear disadvantage for running the flag, for the extra speed you gain, you scream your current position to the entire enemy team every time you drop the flag. They continue by saying that smart players will know when to run the flag and when to walk it.

Bungie has an opportunity in Halo Reach to either end the practice of flag running or to allow it.

How could they do this? Its quite simple really, besides flag running, there should only be two reasons why you drop the flag:
A) You die.
B) You drop it to defend yourself before you pick it back up and continue on your merry way.

For Option B, they could make it when you drop the flag there is a two to three second delay until you can pick it up again. You really shouldn't be able to kill your pursuer in under that time limit, so you drop it, defend yourself, and the delay is up by the time you pick it back up.

With a delay in place, flag runners will find that it is much faster and stealthier to simply walk the flag normally. Implementing such a feature would end the usefulness of Flag Running.

As an alternative, by keeping things like they were in Halo 3, flag running would be able to continue as it has been.

There is also several mitigation options.

One is to keep flag running, but to balance it so that it is easier for defenders to spot where the escaping attacker is, as it is sometimes hard to catch the the glimpses of where the flag symbol is when the flag runner is moving quickly. Its a bit of a mitigation option, where people who hate flag running would be satisfied because it would be official and balanced, and people who like flag running would be able to continue to do it.

Another possible one is to create a new option under the custom settings for a capture the flag game for "Flag Grab Delay" where you could set your own time limit for how long it takes before you can pick up the flag again, so regardless of whether flag running is allowed or not, people will be able to play their custom games the way they want to.

I hope I did a good enough job at being impartial in my descriptions. In case you were wondering, I am leaning more towards the mitigation or delay option myself, so if anyone thinks I did a bad job representing the "Keep Flag Running" viewpoint, I would be happy to edit the OP to reflect any neccesary changes.

Have fun discussing, and remember...
Be Civil or I will Feed your Souls to the Halo Reach Dragon.
-Hylebos

  • 06.15.2009 9:57 PM PDT
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"Wait. What do you mean, it's dead?"
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Should've made a poll but yeah they should keep it in because, not only does it make you faster (although annoying), but a player might need to get rid of the flag for a short period of time to use their weapon against an enemy. A delay would probably be more annoying than helpful like if for example you accidently pressed the wrong button or you tried to pass the flag to another teamate.

[Edited on 06.15.2009 10:18 PM PDT]

  • 06.15.2009 10:04 PM PDT

J-H

Well surely there is no real way to "get rid of" flag running...i mean all it really is is a person picking it up and dropping it. You could theoretically put a delay timer that stops someone picking the flag back up for a certain period of time (maybe 2 seconds for example) but then that might lead to an accidental drop-ee not being able to pick it back up, dieing, cursing their god(s) and throwing their controller at the wall (or -if Project Natal has anything to do with Reach- throwing themself at the wall).

What i don't understand is why people have something against flag running because anybody can do it, it doesn't take a great amount of brains or skill to flag run, all you do is Right Trigger, RB, Right Trigger, RB etc. (if you're using default controller settings).

  • 06.15.2009 10:09 PM PDT

Wow you made a post that long on something that isn't going to change because it is simply part of the game, Its not a glitch so I do not see the problem.

  • 06.15.2009 10:36 PM PDT

I admit that I use Flag Running pretty often. I find that both extremes of the Flag Run/Walk spectrum can be really annoying. People who only walk the flag are often killed because they can't get away from the base fast enough. People who run the flag are often killed because they unnecessarily gave up their position.

But there are too many disadvantages to a "Flag Delay" rule. "Flag Delay" means that even if you only drop the Flag to quickly defend yourself with the Shotgun, you have to wait to pick up the Flag again.

I think the only effective alternative is to make the Flag Carrier just as fast as any other player. Think about it. How is running with a Flag any different than running with another large weapon?

  • 06.16.2009 8:50 AM PDT
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Not allowing it would dumb the game even more down.
We got dual wielding a easy to use start weapon for beginners and a melee system that ends with a double beatdown in many fights and much much more. What else do you kids want?
Flag Running is one of the few things left that allow better or how op said clever players to show off their skills.
Halo:CE was all about individual skill and Halo 3 is all about teamwork. While Halo 2 was a good mix. I really hope Bungie makes the skill gap higher in Halo: Reach than it is in Halo 3...

  • 06.16.2009 8:58 AM PDT

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How could they prevent it? There are times when you actaully need to drop the flag to fight of an oncoming enemy.

  • 06.16.2009 9:04 AM PDT

I would rather have Flag Running still included, but with a larger way-point marker towards the flag each time it is dropped to make it easier to spot the location like you said.

Flag Running offers a chance for people to improvise and be somewhat creative with their strategy in CTF games.

[Edited on 06.16.2009 9:06 AM PDT]

  • 06.16.2009 9:06 AM PDT
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Posted by: sparten110
How could they prevent it? There are times when you actaully need to drop the flag to fight of an oncoming enemy.
As the OP says, there could be a delay timer for when you're allowed to pick it up again. I think it could work, as it becomes an extra punishment to the carrier if he gets himself into trouble. But the way it works in Halo 3, where the flag doesn't bounce forward at all when you drop it, seems to work pretty well in my opinion.

  • 06.16.2009 9:15 AM PDT
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I admit that I sometimes flag-run in Halo 3, and I know how annoying it can be for the other players. It is balanced because the other team knows where you are, but the "flag dropped, flag stolen" thing isn't a necessity. Either they take that out of Reach or they take flag-running out of it entirely.

It doesn't take skill, it's just a matter of whether you can or can't flag-run. New players won't know how to do it, but the older players will. It definitely won't make Reach less skillful to play if they take it out. Personally, I want them to get rid of it when the game is released. The best solution would be to make the flag-holder just as fast as any other player.

  • 06.16.2009 9:15 AM PDT

To the people who support flag running then, would you be fine with the mitigation suggestion where it is easy for defenders to see where the flag is when it is dropped to further highlight the con of flag running?

  • 06.16.2009 10:11 AM PDT

I think it is fine. Just keep the announcer from saying "Flag Droped. Flag Stolen. Flag Droped. Flag Stolen" for half the game.

  • 06.16.2009 10:22 AM PDT

Actually i hope they take it out. I mostly hate it cuz i hate here "Flag Dropped" then "Flag Stolen" Twenty times before he scores it. It just pisses me off

  • 06.16.2009 10:26 AM PDT

i think they should keep it. Flag running has its risk. The enemy can see were you are if you keep dropping the flag and if you keep it you go slower but it is harder for them to find you so this basicly evens it out

  • 06.16.2009 10:27 AM PDT