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Subject: HALO REACH SHOULD BE MULTI DVD SET TO COMPETE WITH PS3 BLU-RAY DISCS
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Posted by: Achilles A04
Finally some people bringing some great points, yes blu-ray read speeds do suck )but we wil be on DVD so...) and yes processing power is a must but you also need the source to process and the source requires disk space. Sorry for making my comparison to Blu-Ray movies, but it is all I could think of at the time, I understand that video files are different than game rendered graphics.

you still don't get it. The processor and the space have nothing to do with eachother.
The orange box takes up less space, but has arguably better graphics than halo 3 in some instances and is MUCH MUCH longer.

they are both one disk games.

it's about the processor and the developer, space is only an issue when it comes to drastic changes. More space is needed as the tech improves, but the TECH is the important part, not the space.

  • 06.18.2009 5:07 PM PDT
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Posted by: Tibetz
Posted by: dafin02
Posted by: Achilles A04
All I'm saying or trying to get across is that a single DVD lacks the space for the content I would like to see in Halo Reach. I want 1080p resolution with exceptionally better graphics than Halo 3, I want audio that is of the highest quality like maybe Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio using all 7.1 channels, I want additional content such as a map builder far superior to forge and imagine what else could be implemented. Basically I do not want the game to be sacrificed or limited by the 4.7gb limit on a single DVD. Or maybe I'm just thinking on too grand a scale...


native games you nig nog =)
dude the xbox does not have the power for 1080p unless you really want to cut down on the graphics of a game like halo, it just cant be done with the consoles of today.
and your asking for stuff that will just not happen (map builder), i know you might not understand how bungie makes there games but for bungie to pull this off they would have to totaly change the way that there terrain is made and there shadowing system that hey have been working on for years.

Xbox 360 runs on 1080P. has for over a year now.

  • 06.18.2009 5:08 PM PDT
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Posted by: dafin02
Posted by: Tibetz
Posted by: dafin02
Posted by: Achilles A04
All I'm saying or trying to get across is that a single DVD lacks the space for the content I would like to see in Halo Reach. I want 1080p resolution with exceptionally better graphics than Halo 3, I want audio that is of the highest quality like maybe Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio using all 7.1 channels, I want additional content such as a map builder far superior to forge and imagine what else could be implemented. Basically I do not want the game to be sacrificed or limited by the 4.7gb limit on a single DVD. Or maybe I'm just thinking on too grand a scale...


native games you nig nog =)
dude the xbox does not have the power for 1080p unless you really want to cut down on the graphics of a game like halo, it just cant be done with the consoles of today.
and your asking for stuff that will just not happen (map builder), i know you might not understand how bungie makes there games but for bungie to pull this off they would have to totaly change the way that there terrain is made and there shadowing system that hey have been working on for years.

Xbox 360 runs on 1080P. has for over a year now.

what?

  • 06.18.2009 5:08 PM PDT

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Posted by: Achilles A04
All I'm saying or trying to get across is that a single DVD lacks the space for the content I would like to see in Halo Reach. I want 1080p resolution with exceptionally better graphics than Halo 3, I want audio that is of the highest quality like maybe Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio using all 7.1 channels, I want additional content such as a map builder far superior to forge and imagine what else could be implemented. Basically I do not want the game to be sacrificed or limited by the 4.7gb limit on a single DVD. Or maybe I'm just thinking on too grand a scale...


The way you are thinking is impractical. There are a bunch of games available (many in fact) that are full 1080p that run fine on the DVD's used for 360 games, and it's getting to be the norm. The graphical issue depends on the dev as well as the tools, and things can only look so good on a video game. Pick any game on the PS3, it's graphical fidelity has nothing to do with the BD disk, but the designers that did a good job. The amount of content is what eats up space. A perfect example of this is MGS4, the only reason it needed all that damn space is because you are essentially playing a movie. There are so many cutscenes in that game that I frequently kept the popcorn handy. Not all games need to be this way.

As I said in my earlier post, with the example of RE5, great graphics are achievable on the 360, but it requires the dev to get it done. Bungie is fully capable of delivering in this aspect, but they put more emphasis on smooth gameplay than awesome graphics, because quite honestly, gameplay should take precedence. Personally I think it will look great, considering Halo3 is nearly 2 years old and still one of the better looking game out there.

  • 06.18.2009 5:09 PM PDT

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I am a network engineer by trade but I do understand a little about programming and by giving a programmer more space to work with, your just adding more room for content. Maybe 3 dvds would be excessive, but to place the campaign on one dvd and the multiplayer on another each experience can have additional content and quality added.

[Edited on 06.18.2009 5:11 PM PDT]

  • 06.18.2009 5:09 PM PDT
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Posted by: Achilles A04
I am a network engineer by trade but I do understand al liitle about programming and by giving a programmer more space to work with, your just adding more room for content. Maybe 3 dvds would be excessive, but to place the campaign on one dvd and the multiplayer on another each experience can have additional content and quality added.

content yes.

Quality, no.

one last time. it's the technology, not the space.

  • 06.18.2009 5:11 PM PDT
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Posted by: Tibetz
Posted by: dafin02
Posted by: Tibetz
Posted by: dafin02
Posted by: Achilles A04
All I'm saying or trying to get across is that a single DVD lacks the space for the content I would like to see in Halo Reach. I want 1080p resolution with exceptionally better graphics than Halo 3, I want audio that is of the highest quality like maybe Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio using all 7.1 channels, I want additional content such as a map builder far superior to forge and imagine what else could be implemented. Basically I do not want the game to be sacrificed or limited by the 4.7gb limit on a single DVD. Or maybe I'm just thinking on too grand a scale...


native games you nig nog =)
dude the xbox does not have the power for 1080p unless you really want to cut down on the graphics of a game like halo, it just cant be done with the consoles of today.
and your asking for stuff that will just not happen (map builder), i know you might not understand how bungie makes there games but for bungie to pull this off they would have to totaly change the way that there terrain is made and there shadowing system that hey have been working on for years.

Xbox 360 runs on 1080P. has for over a year now.

what?

sorry for some reason what i typed didnt show.. anyway what it was ment to say was that yes xbox 360 support 1080p but you will be very hard pressed to find a game that will run at that natively

  • 06.18.2009 5:12 PM PDT
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won't happen because microsoft owns the halo franchise (also all cap titles are against the rules)

  • 06.18.2009 5:15 PM PDT
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Posted by: Tibetz
Posted by: dafin02
Posted by: Tibetz
Posted by: dafin02
Posted by: Achilles A04
All I'm saying or trying to get across is that a single DVD lacks the space for the content I would like to see in Halo Reach. I want 1080p resolution with exceptionally better graphics than Halo 3, I want audio that is of the highest quality like maybe Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio using all 7.1 channels, I want additional content such as a map builder far superior to forge and imagine what else could be implemented. Basically I do not want the game to be sacrificed or limited by the 4.7gb limit on a single DVD. Or maybe I'm just thinking on too grand a scale...


native games you nig nog =)
dude the xbox does not have the power for 1080p unless you really want to cut down on the graphics of a game like halo, it just cant be done with the consoles of today.
and your asking for stuff that will just not happen (map builder), i know you might not understand how bungie makes there games but for bungie to pull this off they would have to totaly change the way that there terrain is made and there shadowing system that hey have been working on for years.

Xbox 360 runs on 1080P. has for over a year now.

what?
he is reffering to how good the tv's hi-def is (1080p is very good)

  • 06.18.2009 5:17 PM PDT

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If only we could have a bungie employee who actually does this for a career enlighten us on the matter. I just have a hard time believing that by not adding space you are not adding the possiblity of a better game (graphics/content).

  • 06.18.2009 5:18 PM PDT

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Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
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Posted by: Tibetz
Posted by: Achilles A04
I am a network engineer by trade but I do understand al liitle about programming and by giving a programmer more space to work with, your just adding more room for content. Maybe 3 dvds would be excessive, but to place the campaign on one dvd and the multiplayer on another each experience can have additional content and quality added.

content yes.

Quality, no.

one last time. it's the technology, not the space.


To add, it will allow more room to play with, but more doesn't always mean better.

  • 06.18.2009 5:20 PM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

Posted by: Achilles A04
If only we could have a bungie employee who actually does this for a career enlighten us on the matter. I just have a hard time believing that by not adding space you are not adding the possiblity of a better game (graphics/content).


You want proof that isn't true? Look at the installed base between the 360 and the PS3, the ability to add more content does not necessarily make for a better experiance. Shared titles sell higher on the 360 than the PS3, and there havn't been enough solid PS3 exclusives to get people psyched. It's all in the hands of the dev, not the media they use.

  • 06.18.2009 5:21 PM PDT

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It is a great point but not exactly proof. I'm going to try and contact a game designer not necessarily from Bungie to see if he can educate me more on the matter of does more space give a programmer the ability to create a more superior game. My reasoning is take for example a MS DOS game and it's size and compare it to a early windows vista game and it's size. As technology improved so did the size of games relatively. Understand my reasoning?

  • 06.18.2009 5:36 PM PDT
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Posted by: Achilles A04
It is a great point but not exactly proof. I'm going to try and contact a game designer not necessarily from Bungie to see if he can educate me more on the matter of does more space give a programmer the ability to create a more superior game. My reasoning is take for example a MS DOS game and it's size and compare it to a early windows vista game and it's size. As technology improved so did the size of games relatively. Understand my reasoning?

yeah but as the size got bigger so did the system requirements.

if you told someone back then that a OS would need 1GB of ram to run they would laugh in your face... or they would ask how big a GB was.

ill try to explain the problem as simple as posible.
in layman terms the xbox can only draw 100 lines at a time (not true its just a nice easy number) at any one time, and no matter what you do you cant make it draw any more then the 100 lines (in this case it would be because the frame rate drops). so even if there is room for more "lines" on the disk the xbox can not handle it.
BUT more lines can be used (more content) by spreading them out so that the xbox doesnt see them, so this would be like more maps.

now please please say you understand because i have no idea how i can dumb it down more

  • 06.18.2009 5:51 PM PDT

Either way, the next generation consoles will be going back to hard memory. CD drives take up more space then just raw memory. It's going to be like that 100% sure for portable. Why not bring that to the consoles? I mean of the Sony flash cards can have up to 2 terabytes of memory... And it's a small card.

  • 06.18.2009 6:01 PM PDT

Posted by: dafin02
Posted by: Achilles A04
It is a great point but not exactly proof. I'm going to try and contact a game designer not necessarily from Bungie to see if he can educate me more on the matter of does more space give a programmer the ability to create a more superior game. My reasoning is take for example a MS DOS game and it's size and compare it to a early windows vista game and it's size. As technology improved so did the size of games relatively. Understand my reasoning?

yeah but as the size got bigger so did the system requirements.

if you told someone back then that a OS would need 1GB of ram to run they would laugh in your face... or they would ask how big a GB was.

ill try to explain the problem as simple as posible.
in layman terms the xbox can only draw 100 lines at a time (not true its just a nice easy number) at any one time, and no matter what you do you cant make it draw any more then the 100 lines (in this case it would be because the frame rate drops). so even if there is room for more "lines" on the disk the xbox can not handle it.
BUT more lines can be used (more content) by spreading them out so that the xbox doesnt see them, so this would be like more maps.

now please please say you understand because i have no idea how i can dumb it down more

You can only load a certain amount of content at a time. That's why loading screens exist between levels.

There.

  • 06.18.2009 6:02 PM PDT

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Dude don't talk to me like I don't understand your rebuttal's, the Xbox 360s technology doesn't need to be explained to me in "layman terms." The technology within the xbox--the video processor, the CPU, the MTB bus speeds all can support what I would expect in the game. If you think that I'm saying that increasing the game's size increases the graphics rendered to my monitor then I'm sorry for the confusion.

  • 06.18.2009 6:07 PM PDT

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HALO REACH ON 2 DVDS ALLOWS FOR A BIGGER BETTER HALO EXPERIENCE....NUFF SAID

MORE MOVIES, EPIC STORYLINE, MORE USER INTERACTIVE CONTENT SUCH A EXTREMELY ADVANCE FORGE SYSTEM, MAYBE EVEN A MORE ADVANCED PHYSICS ENGINE.

I"M DONE DEFENDING THIS, SORRY FOR ANY CONFUSION ABOUT GRAPHIC PROCESSING AND WHATEVER ELSE.

  • 06.18.2009 6:16 PM PDT

Well take a look at a game like Crysis, the graphics are outstanding, and it only takes up ~8gb of space

It is true that things like larger textures and more models make the game take up a larger amount of space on disk, but not immensely so. Its things like lighting and shaders that can make a game look fantastic by "faking" much higher quality models and textures. It's these that require more processing power

About your original point though, I do think it would be nice if they included Reaches MP on a separate disc, they could stuff in a ton more maps, which would certainly be nice

  • 06.18.2009 6:39 PM PDT

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Thank you for understanding the original post and your knowledge on the matter especially about the graphic side of things. Can you go into a little more detail or an example about what more disk space could provide a new Halo game--like what you said about the larger textures and more models...

  • 06.18.2009 6:47 PM PDT

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Posted by: Achilles A04
HALO REACH ON 2 DVDS ALLOWS FOR A BIGGER BETTER HALO EXPERIENCE....NUFF SAID

MORE MOVIES, EPIC STORYLINE, MORE USER INTERACTIVE CONTENT SUCH A EXTREMELY ADVANCE FORGE SYSTEM, MAYBE EVEN A MORE ADVANCED PHYSICS ENGINE.

I"M DONE DEFENDING THIS, SORRY FOR ANY CONFUSION ABOUT GRAPHIC PROCESSING AND WHATEVER ELSE.

CAPS-LOCK IS CRUISE-CONTROL FOR COOL

  • 06.18.2009 6:47 PM PDT

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Posted by: JasmineWarrior
Well take a look at a game like Crysis, the graphics are outstanding, and it only takes up ~8gb of space
=)

  • 06.18.2009 7:04 PM PDT
Subject: Halo Reach A 2 DVD Set For Advanced Content - Make This Release Epic!

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For one thing, just because Sony puts their games onto a blu ray doesn't mean the game takes up the entire storage capacity of the disc.

Secondly, it is impossible for any game formatted onto a DVD to support any HD sound options. There just isn't enough space on the disc for it to be able to support uncompressed audio.

Thirdly, just because a game only utilizes one DVD doesn't make it crappy. It just means that in the broad scheme of things, the data necessary to render said game isn't that large. When you look at Final Fantasy XIII for example, that game will require anywhere from about 5 to 12 DVDs to support the entire game should the normal DVD format be used (dual layer). That is a huge game that unfortunately is being formatted onto a smaller storage device.

Ultimately the huge advantage of an HD storage format is you aren't going to have to worry about swapping discs out all the time as you cross those checkpoints in the game where the next area is on a separate DVD. It makes for a much more cohesive gaming experience.

  • 06.18.2009 7:23 PM PDT

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Thanks for the information especially about the uncompressed audio. You seem like you too also grasp the concept of the main posting. In your opinion do you think Halo can benefit from having the campaign on one disc and the multiplayer on another? Can advanced content be added because of the additional space gained, such as a really advanced forge system, more movies in the story line...etc. Any benefits that you can think of please share!

[Edited on 06.18.2009 7:33 PM PDT]

  • 06.18.2009 7:32 PM PDT
Subject: HALO REACH SHOULD BE MULTI DVD SET TO COMPETE WITH PS3 BLU-RAY DISCS
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I only understood 25% of that. on other words Bungie should release a HD/360 version of Halo 1-2. at it should have DLC Disk which works for Halo 3 or Halo ODST which gives you all the Halo 2 maps? THAT BE FREAKING SWEET!

  • 06.18.2009 7:53 PM PDT

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