Halo: Reach Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: Halo Reach A 2 DVD Set For Advanced Content - Make This Release Epic!
  • Subject: Halo Reach A 2 DVD Set For Advanced Content - Make This Release Epic!
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • of 3
Subject: Halo Reach A 2 DVD Set For Advanced Content - Make This Release Epic!

Well, things like more videos during the campaign and such could clearly be added with the additional space (look at MGS), in addition you could also have more levels to play through, although due to the 360's hardware restrictions you cant make them larger without sacrificing quality, but you could indeed add more.

A "really advanced forge system" isn't exactly a space issue, that has more to do with how much coding bungie does on the actual forge setup, and I cant see the forge feature taking up a large component of the disk, even if you added in a whole wack of new features, and that includes something like a terrain editor.

On the other hand, if you wanted to add something like another 50 possible scenery meshes to each map then this becomes a space issue. The same is true for multiple optional skins for objects. The more you have the more space it is going to take up.

If you wanted to improve the game's graphical quality overall though, you could add larger textures or more detailed meshes, and this would take up more space on the disk. But once again, you would run into the xbox's hardware restrictions. If your trying to render textures twice as large, on models with considerably more polygons, then there is going to be a performance hit.

Thats why using techniques like bump mapping and advanced lighting can "fake" a higher level of detail, for example look at GOW/UT3, the engine precomputes almost every piece of lighting in the game, allowing for optimal performance and still maintianing very good looking environments (Crysis, on the hand, features almost all dynamic lights, along with a powerful physics engine, but it takes a killer PC to run it well)

What this means for Halo is that if they do run MM and campaign on seperate disks, you may not see so much of a huge quality improvement (hardware restrictions), but you would definitely see a quantity improvment.

  • 06.18.2009 7:57 PM PDT

"This party's over." ~Mace Windu
Bruce Lee > Chuck Norris
PPPPPP--POWER!

Posted by: Achilles A04
Thanks for the information especially about the uncompressed audio. You seem like you too also grasp the concept of the main posting. In your opinion do you think Halo can benefit from having the campaign on one disc and the multiplayer on another? Can advanced content be added because of the additional space gained, such as a really advanced forge system, more movies in the story line...etc. Any benefits that you can think of please share!

Well by simply spreading the content out over a few separate discs, you can easily free up more space for the main slice of media comprising a particular DVD. So theoretically yes you could allow for more advanced content from one aspect of the game by separating other aspects.

Ultimately it is up to Bungie and how much space they require to artistically create their own game. They may only need 6GB of space to make one of the most thrilling campaigns ever, or maybe they'll need 12GB inorder to accomodate their gameplay updates, requirements etc. The one thing that is really annoying with games spread over multiple discs is having to swap them in and out time and time again, so my guess is they are going to aim to fit all of their product onto as few discs as possible.

Honestly I think what they are planning for ODST is not only going to work, but also a requirement since Halo 3 MM and the game ODST itself are two separate entities. This is just one example of when dual DVDs should work just fine.

  • 06.18.2009 7:59 PM PDT

~ Samsung LN52A650 120Hz LCD HDTV | Samsung BD-P3600 Blu-Ray Player | Denon AVR2309CI Audio/Video Receiver | SVS 7.1 SCS-01(M) speaker system with SBS-01 surrounds and SB12-Plus Subwoofer | Logitech Harmony One Advanced Universal Remote | DCH3416 Dual-Tuner DVR | Microsoft Xbox 360 Entertainment Console | APC AV 1.5 kVA H Type Power Conditioner ~

Thank you JasmineWarrior & Joric Deture for your very informative replies to my post. In response to JasmineWarrior, I wonder if Halo 3 currently exhausts all of the Xbox 360's potential or if the game with large textures would then push the Xbox 360 to it limits. In response to JoricDeture I agree that the game experience would suffer if we had to keep switching out DVDs but like you said one for campaign and one for MM since they are two seperate entities wouldn't be so bad.

  • 06.18.2009 8:55 PM PDT

If they need more disc space, so be it. Have 2 discs and make the second installable so you don't ever have to change them, like Forza 3 is going to be.

  • 06.18.2009 9:10 PM PDT

I think halo 3 comes somewhat close to pushing the 360's limits, but I believe that perhaps through optimization (bungie has had lots of time to build a new engine for Reach, and they are clearly more experienced with the 360 by now) they can pull off alot of the aforementioned "tricks" that would allow the game to appear alot better, without suffering from a massive performance hit.

The reason I think halo 3 is already running pretty close to the limit can be seen pretty easily. If you take a forged map, on something like sandbox, you are able to place in a very large amount of objects. Some of these are dynamic lights, and I think that one will notice that on maps with a large amount of objects all cluttered around one or more of these lights there can be a noticeable fps drop. Also, if one plays on split screen, these lights often don't even render for the second player, unless the first is nearby. This is clearly because the xbox cant handle rendering the advanced lighting effects for both players at the same time.

But like I said, by now bungie has become considerably more familiar with the 360 and its capabilities, so the new engine for Reach should be able to make better use of the available hardware. This may or may not mean things like larger textures and drastically better models, but chances are there should be at least some improvement. Combine this with a better lighting system and more powerful rendering options built into the engine, and I think there will be a considerable increase in graphical appearance, although perhaps not a drastically larger increase to the size of the games texture and model files.

If they do decide to use two separate disks, I think we could expect a much larger campaign with a wider variety of environments, and considerably more maps for MM, along with a greater amount of objects for use in forge.

  • 06.18.2009 9:12 PM PDT

~ Samsung LN52A650 120Hz LCD HDTV | Samsung BD-P3600 Blu-Ray Player | Denon AVR2309CI Audio/Video Receiver | SVS 7.1 SCS-01(M) speaker system with SBS-01 surrounds and SB12-Plus Subwoofer | Logitech Harmony One Advanced Universal Remote | DCH3416 Dual-Tuner DVR | Microsoft Xbox 360 Entertainment Console | APC AV 1.5 kVA H Type Power Conditioner ~

I can see now why some of you have your forum status, especially JasmineWarrior. I agree with your reply of Bungie becoming more familiar with the 360's architecture and improving their engine to achieve what I thought additional space would resolve. Well let us hope for a truly new and epic release for our favorite video game (at least for me) in the near future.

  • 06.18.2009 9:44 PM PDT

Posted by: Nerd Boi
Posted by: DAMNU
Apparently your reading comprehension is not all there, I didn't say that it necessarily irritates me. It's just annoying.

*Head explodes*

Posted by: Achilles A04
I can see now why some of you have your forum status, especially JasmineWarrior. I agree with your reply of Bungie becoming more familiar with the 360's architecture and improving their engine to achieve what I thought additional space would resolve. Well let us hope for a truly new and epic release for our favorite video game (at least for me) in the near future.

What does forum status have to do with any of this? :S That just means he was here a short while. (My other account, swashbuckler91, was an honorable member. I switched accounts because I swapped emails for my GT.) I, personally, don't think Halo 3 is pushing the Xbox 360 graphically. Halo 3 doesn't run on true HD; it runs on 1164x640 resolution instead of 1080x720. Anyway, Bungie didn't really focus on graphics. They solely focused on lighting, shadows, and other special effects.

Putting the Halo 3 Campaign on a whole disc (7 or 8 GB!) would be way too much space to fill in a couple of years (since the trailer). They could have been working on this project for God knows how long, but I want them to work on special effects such as better lighting and explosions. Have you ever seen the AR fire in slow-mo in theater mode? Looks so bad....

Now, don't assume that I don't want a huge campaign. I would like that, and if Bungie did do this, there would be a lot less scrapping of levels because they could all fit-- though most of the levels in Halo 3 were scrapped because of time constraints.

For multiplayer, I don't think it should be on a separate disc. Why? Let's look at it this way:
You have a group of people working on the campaign; they have to fill up 8 gigs of space. The multiplayer has to fill up 8 gigs of space. There is too little time to be able to do that. I state once again that I don't know how long Bungie has been working on Reach, but 2010 is a little soon.

Do you know how many multiplayer maps Bungie would have to create in order to fill up 8 gigs? So many, so little time. Plus, if the Bungie staff was split between Campaign and Multiplayer, filling two discs is practically impossible. I would put more, but I'm getting tired. It's like 12:30.

  • 06.18.2009 10:23 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Honorable Member

I think 2 discs is good enough.
If you install Halo 3 to you Hard Drive it takes up 6.5GB.
That obviously means that the disc is more than the standard 4.7GB.
If you haven't realized already they're making DVD's bigger and they're making them double layered. A double layered 6.5GB disc would probably come out to be 12-13GB.

  • 06.18.2009 11:31 PM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

Posted by: Achilles A04
I can see now why some of you have your forum status, especially JasmineWarrior.


Quite the entertaining comment considering that several others have given similar info, they just have not agreed with you, but no matter. All things asided, now that you finally seem to understand that space doesn't necessarily mean more quality, you also need to realized what i've touched on twice already, too much going on on the screen at the same time, can cause the system to stutter. Because of this it is not always smart to push the system graphically.

Say Bungie does go balls to the wall with graphics, everything is the best the system can produce. Now add to tha Halo gameplay, several characters, non-scripted, their animation movements, the effects of their weapons, the damage of their weapons, their dialouge, all these things running simultaneously, for most games that have tried to do something revolutionary with graphics, these things bring about frame rut stutter, among other things. As i've mentioned, in times past Bungie has aired on the side of optimal gameplay over great graphics, and they have done so to the benefit of all who enjoy their games.

What you seem to be hoping for is something better served on a PC in my opinion, as that platform is not restricted the way a console is as far as it's hardware is concerned. I think that Reach will look great and play great, due to Bungie's time with the console and they time they have had to learn from mistakes and refine techniques, but I would not hold my breath for the type of content it sounds like your asking for.

  • 06.19.2009 12:19 AM PDT

~ Samsung LN52A650 120Hz LCD HDTV | Samsung BD-P3600 Blu-Ray Player | Denon AVR2309CI Audio/Video Receiver | SVS 7.1 SCS-01(M) speaker system with SBS-01 surrounds and SB12-Plus Subwoofer | Logitech Harmony One Advanced Universal Remote | DCH3416 Dual-Tuner DVR | Microsoft Xbox 360 Entertainment Console | APC AV 1.5 kVA H Type Power Conditioner ~

It's not that they didn't agree with me, it was their poor arguments and in my judgement--poor understanding of what I was trying to get across (probably my fault for not being clear). But picture this simple example. A polygon that is rendered with a simple texture perhaps one solid color; that texture takes up X amount of space on the disc. Then compare that to a polygon that is rendered with a texture with more colors perhaps a texture consisting of 32-bit color; that texture takes up a larger amount space. Now I understand what the others were trying to say that the console's hardware limits the final output as to what can be rendered and processed and whatever. But space does play a role on the final output of what is rendered or what you see visually. I admit I was wrong when I thought by simply adding more space for these textures that the game would just become graphically enhanced.

  • 06.19.2009 1:46 AM PDT

I for one wouldn't mind if Reach did end up using a separate disk for campaign and MM, but only if they were truly necessary. The thing about halo (or any console game, really) is that the graphics are always going to be limited more by your hardware capabilities than space constraints. Therefore using two disks would mean bungie placed a considerably larger amount of content into the game.

On the campaign disk, this would clearly mean more levels, with a much more diverse set of environments, and possibly a much larger amount of campaign specific objects. These could include things such as maybe 5 different versions of the covenant scarab, or multiple different pelican models. They could even include firefight on this disk, assuming it isn't fully integrated into MM.

For MM, the disk would obviously feature your regular multiplayer and forge, but the amount of content you receive would be drastically increased. Instead of 15 different maps, you could have 50 different maps (although clearly this takes longer to make), and a much expanded forge. Whereas you might have an option of using 30 different scenery pieces, this could be expanded to a number such as 100, although the maximum amount of objects you can actually place on the map wouldn't change.

Basically, the extra space bungie would have using separate disks could be used to throw in a ton of cool little extras, that while not affecting regular gameplay are still there for the player to use as they see fit. This means that alot of the cool models and concepts that have to be cut from the game because they don't really seem to fit in anywhere can be left as an extra for the player to mess around with, which I for one would enjoy.

I'm pretty sure that they have been working on the game since H3 was released, so they certainly have had lots of time to develop everything. I cant see two disks being used, even though I think it would be pretty cool to have a bunch of extra features.

  • 06.19.2009 12:47 PM PDT

I totally agree with you. The only problem I can see is, when you're playing co-op, what happens when you change discs? It's probably easy to solve.

  • 06.19.2009 1:03 PM PDT
Subject: HALO REACH SHOULD BE MULTI DVD SET TO COMPETE WITH PS3 BLU-RAY DISCS
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Wort, wort, wort!

How come Halo CE fit on single DVD? It was 2 gb or so on disc if I remember correctly. And it was an outstanding game.

  • 06.19.2009 1:07 PM PDT
Subject: Halo Reach A 2 DVD Set For Advanced Content - Make This Release Epic!

Well, you can install to HD, and I think if campaign is on one disk and MM on the other, then the campaign should include co-op with it. Matchmaking would be fully separate, though.

  • 06.19.2009 1:08 PM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

Posted by: JasmineWarrior
I for one wouldn't mind if Reach did end up using a separate disk for campaign and MM, but only if they were truly necessary. The thing about halo (or any console game, really) is that the graphics are always going to be limited more by your hardware capabilities than space constraints. Therefore using two disks would mean bungie placed a considerably larger amount of content into the game.

On the campaign disk, this would clearly mean more levels, with a much more diverse set of environments, and possibly a much larger amount of campaign specific objects. These could include things such as maybe 5 different versions of the covenant scarab, or multiple different pelican models. They could even include firefight on this disk, assuming it isn't fully integrated into MM.

For MM, the disk would obviously feature your regular multiplayer and forge, but the amount of content you receive would be drastically increased. Instead of 15 different maps, you could have 50 different maps (although clearly this takes longer to make), and a much expanded forge. Whereas you might have an option of using 30 different scenery pieces, this could be expanded to a number such as 100, although the maximum amount of objects you can actually place on the map wouldn't change.

Basically, the extra space bungie would have using separate disks could be used to throw in a ton of cool little extras, that while not affecting regular gameplay are still there for the player to use as they see fit. This means that alot of the cool models and concepts that have to be cut from the game because they don't really seem to fit in anywhere can be left as an extra for the player to mess around with, which I for one would enjoy.

I'm pretty sure that they have been working on the game since H3 was released, so they certainly have had lots of time to develop everything. I cant see two disks being used, even though I think it would be pretty cool to have a bunch of extra features.


The bonus's and what not would be pretty solid, but things like that are best served on collectors DVD's and what not, not extra game content. If it isn't applicable to the game, it shouldn't share the same space. A full blown map editor doesn't seem prudent, but isn't entirely out of the question.

Personally I think a multi-disk release with solely game content on each disk would be slightly impractical. However if they did make a campaign that ate up an entire disk, and it was quality content, it would only mean good things for us :)

  • 06.19.2009 3:07 PM PDT

  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • of 3