Halo: Reach Forum
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Subject: Dual Weilding Re-fit.

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Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
Posted by: zash208
Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
No, there should be no dual wielding in Halo REACH. It wouldn't make sense in the timeline, and it flat-out ruins gameplay balance (compare Halo 2 Needler to Halo 1/3 Needler). Should we be able to wield one? Sure. But it would take both hands, maybe you could melee with it.


Dude, for being the idea man of Reach, you seem to be falling behind...

How would dual weilding "not fit into the timeline"?
Have you ever played Halo 1? No dual wielding there, Reach takes place before that.

And compare the Halo 2 Needler to the Halo 3 one. Remember how horrible it was compared to the one in H3? The same is the case for the Plasma Rifle, Plasma Pistol, and Pistol, when compared to their single-wieldable Halo 1 versions. In order to have dual wielding, weapons ranges' need to be cut in half, same with their power. Why not just have one strong weapon rather than two half-guns which are worthless without being paired with something else?
Well Halo Wars is considered "canon" and the Spartans start with two SMGs, so...

  • 06.19.2009 3:42 PM PDT

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Posted by: Rambo Stu
Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
Posted by: zash208
Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
No, there should be no dual wielding in Halo REACH. It wouldn't make sense in the timeline, and it flat-out ruins gameplay balance (compare Halo 2 Needler to Halo 1/3 Needler). Should we be able to wield one? Sure. But it would take both hands, maybe you could melee with it.


Dude, for being the idea man of Reach, you seem to be falling behind...

How would dual weilding "not fit into the timeline"?
Have you ever played Halo 1? No dual wielding there, Reach takes place before that.

And compare the Halo 2 Needler to the Halo 3 one. Remember how horrible it was compared to the one in H3? The same is the case for the Plasma Rifle, Plasma Pistol, and Pistol, when compared to their single-wieldable Halo 1 versions. In order to have dual wielding, weapons ranges' need to be cut in half, same with their power. Why not just have one strong weapon rather than two half-guns which are worthless without being paired with something else?
Well Halo Wars is considered "canon" and the Spartans start with two SMGs, so...
HW is selectively canon; some things don't make sense (dual wielding and the Mk IV having shields).

  • 06.19.2009 3:44 PM PDT

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Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
Posted by: zash208
Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
No, there should be no dual wielding in Halo REACH. It wouldn't make sense in the timeline, and it flat-out ruins gameplay balance (compare Halo 2 Needler to Halo 1/3 Needler). Should we be able to wield one? Sure. But it would take both hands, maybe you could melee with it.


Dude, for being the idea man of Reach, you seem to be falling behind...

How would dual weilding "not fit into the timeline"?
Have you ever played Halo 1? No dual wielding there, Reach takes place before that.

And compare the Halo 2 Needler to the Halo 3 one. Remember how horrible it was compared to the one in H3? The same is the case for the Plasma Rifle, Plasma Pistol, and Pistol, when compared to their single-wieldable Halo 1 versions. In order to have dual wielding, weapons ranges' need to be cut in half, same with their power. Why not just have one strong weapon rather than two half-guns which are worthless without being paired with something else?

Okay, I'm with you on the gameplay part, but honestly, the whole "wouldn't fit with the timeline" thing is ridiculous. It makes it sound as if Chief was the first person in the history of the galaxy to ever think of using two weapons at once.

Also, Kelly dual wields pistols in First Strike, during a portion of the book which takes place during Halo 1.

[Edited on 06.19.2009 3:49 PM PDT]

  • 06.19.2009 3:47 PM PDT

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Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
Posted by: Rambo Stu
Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
Posted by: zash208
Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
No, there should be no dual wielding in Halo REACH. It wouldn't make sense in the timeline, and it flat-out ruins gameplay balance (compare Halo 2 Needler to Halo 1/3 Needler). Should we be able to wield one? Sure. But it would take both hands, maybe you could melee with it.


Dude, for being the idea man of Reach, you seem to be falling behind...

How would dual weilding "not fit into the timeline"?
Have you ever played Halo 1? No dual wielding there, Reach takes place before that.

And compare the Halo 2 Needler to the Halo 3 one. Remember how horrible it was compared to the one in H3? The same is the case for the Plasma Rifle, Plasma Pistol, and Pistol, when compared to their single-wieldable Halo 1 versions. In order to have dual wielding, weapons ranges' need to be cut in half, same with their power. Why not just have one strong weapon rather than two half-guns which are worthless without being paired with something else?
Well Halo Wars is considered "canon" and the Spartans start with two SMGs, so...
HW is selectively canon; some things don't make sense (dual wielding and the Mk IV having shields).
True dat, but i still think using Jackal Shields would be a really good addition to the gameplay.

[Edited on 06.19.2009 3:48 PM PDT]

  • 06.19.2009 3:48 PM PDT

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But it's true... why didn't the Chief Dual wield in Halo: Combat Evolved? He only started when he got his new armor in Halo 2. Kelly dual wielded after the Spartans got the MJOLNIR upgrades in CASTLE base (they got them right before the new pistols and rifles). Anyway, it's not so much that he couldn't use two guns at the same time, it's just that the Mk V probably didn't track both weapons, so you would only get a reading for one gun while you were clueless as to how much ammo you had in the other.

Also, even if they removed dual wielding, I would like a lot of the weapons to return, just tweaked a lot.

Plasma Rifle -- more range than the AR if single-shot. No spread if it's fired in single-shot, but it is present in full auto. Stun like in Halo 1, but only on headshots this time. Maybe a 1.5x or 2x scope.

Plasma Pistol -- half the range of the Plasma Pistol. Single-shot. Stun on headshots only. If you hold the charged shot, the battery depletes at half the strength as in H3. As powerful as in H1. Same speed and tracking as in H1. EMP effect from H3.

Spiker -- no longer full auto. Fires one shot per trigger pull, as fast as you can pull the trigger (like the Magnum in H2, or the Carbine). It would be very powerful, and could nail opponents to walls (like in Halo LANDFALL). Capable of headshots (maybe 3 headshots kill and unshielded opponent).

Mauler -- little more range than the H3 Magnum but it's fully automatic. Same amount of shots as the H3 Mauler. The regular shotgun could have its strength upped to the Halo 1 version, but with as much ammo and magazine size as H3.

[Edited on 06.19.2009 3:55 PM PDT]

  • 06.19.2009 3:52 PM PDT

It should be added. You won't be 'shooting' the shield when you use it, so it wouldn't be considered 'dual wielding' in traditional Halo terms. Spartans were still super soldiers back then even if they didn't have energy shields of their own. They can use their left hand lol

  • 06.19.2009 3:52 PM PDT

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Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa

Spiker -- no longer full auto. Fires one shot per trigger pull, as fast as you can pull the trigger (like the Magnum in H2, or the Carbine). It would be very powerful, and could nail opponents to walls (like in Halo LANDFALL). Capable of headshots (maybe 3 headshots kill and unshielded opponent).



This was the only weapon adjustment I did not like in your post, having a gun fire as fast as you can pull the trigger leads to many problems, such as modding, and other various forms of cheating.

It would basicly pull the community into filing complaints if you can shoot fast.

Just look at COD4....

  • 06.19.2009 3:55 PM PDT

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Posted by: zash208
Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa

Spiker -- no longer full auto. Fires one shot per trigger pull, as fast as you can pull the trigger (like the Magnum in H2, or the Carbine). It would be very powerful, and could nail opponents to walls (like in Halo LANDFALL). Capable of headshots (maybe 3 headshots kill and unshielded opponent).



This was the only weapon adjustment I did not like in your post, having a gun fire as fast as you can pull the trigger leads to many problems, such as modding, and other various forms of cheating.

It would basicly pull the community into filing complaints if you can shoot fast.

Just look at COD4....
Okay, well they could put a cap on it so you couldn't shoot faster than most humans should be able to, but it would still be shooting as fast as you could pull the trigger (like the H2 Magnum or the H2/3 Carbine).

  • 06.19.2009 3:57 PM PDT

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Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
But it's true... why didn't the Chief Dual wield in Halo: Combat Evolved? He only started when he got his new armor in Halo 2. Kelly dual wielded after the Spartans got the MJOLNIR upgrades in CASTLE base (they got them right before the new pistols and rifles).

Right, Chief must've gotten the idea to dual-wield after he saw Admiral Whitcomb do it to kill an Elite. The only reason he didn't do it Halo 1 was because that's how the game was set up, not because he physically couldn't. The man can flip a Scorpion tank, he can dual wield whenever he wants to.

  • 06.19.2009 3:58 PM PDT

No Spartans shouldn't. This isn't Gears of War 2, a la Boomshield.

  • 06.19.2009 3:59 PM PDT

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Posted by: II Hunt3r II
Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
But it's true... why didn't the Chief Dual wield in Halo: Combat Evolved? He only started when he got his new armor in Halo 2. Kelly dual wielded after the Spartans got the MJOLNIR upgrades in CASTLE base (they got them right before the new pistols and rifles).

Right, Chief must've gotten the idea to dual-wield after he saw Admiral Whitcomb do it to kill an Elite. The only reason he didn't do it Halo 1 was because that's how the game was set up, not because he physically couldn't. The man can flip a Scorpion tank, he can dual wield whenever he wants to.
What's your explanation for him not doing it in H1?

Mine is that the Mk V only tracked one weapon (maybe the upgrades in CASTLE base fixed this) -- would you like DW in REACH if you can only tell how much ammo you have in one of your weapons?

  • 06.19.2009 4:02 PM PDT

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Posted by: LoftierRelic
No Spartans shouldn't. This isn't Gears of War 2, a la Boomshield.


My idea is most certainly not coming from Gears, more or less from Campaign, seeing Jackals everywhere with their shields, so I thought,"Hmm, that weak little thing can carry that, but a Spartan can't? Why not make it so they can in Reach?"

So no, Gears was not thought of here.

  • 06.19.2009 4:04 PM PDT
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Posted by: II Hunt3r II
Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
But it's true... why didn't the Chief Dual wield in Halo: Combat Evolved? He only started when he got his new armor in Halo 2. Kelly dual wielded after the Spartans got the MJOLNIR upgrades in CASTLE base (they got them right before the new pistols and rifles).

Right, Chief must've gotten the idea to dual-wield after he saw Admiral Whitcomb do it to kill an Elite. The only reason he didn't do it Halo 1 was because that's how the game was set up, not because he physically couldn't. The man can flip a Scorpion tank, he can dual wield whenever he wants to.
Actually I'm pretty sure it was stated that only Mark VI armor can smart link two weapons. So before Halo 2 targeting would be too confusing.

  • 06.19.2009 4:06 PM PDT

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Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
Posted by: II Hunt3r II
Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
But it's true... why didn't the Chief Dual wield in Halo: Combat Evolved? He only started when he got his new armor in Halo 2. Kelly dual wielded after the Spartans got the MJOLNIR upgrades in CASTLE base (they got them right before the new pistols and rifles).

Right, Chief must've gotten the idea to dual-wield after he saw Admiral Whitcomb do it to kill an Elite. The only reason he didn't do it Halo 1 was because that's how the game was set up, not because he physically couldn't. The man can flip a Scorpion tank, he can dual wield whenever he wants to.
What's your explanation for him not doing it in H1?

Mine is that the Mk V only tracked one weapon (maybe the upgrades in CASTLE base fixed this) -- would you like DW in REACH if you can only tell how much ammo you have in one of your weapons?

explenation is.... bungie didnt put the feature in
it has nothing to do with thecheif not being able to lift 2 weapons, it simply wasnt put in

so i dont see how it wouldn fit in with story

  • 06.19.2009 4:13 PM PDT

Wait, you actually checked this?

Will you be my friend?

Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
Posted by: II Hunt3r II
Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
But it's true... why didn't the Chief Dual wield in Halo: Combat Evolved? He only started when he got his new armor in Halo 2. Kelly dual wielded after the Spartans got the MJOLNIR upgrades in CASTLE base (they got them right before the new pistols and rifles).

Right, Chief must've gotten the idea to dual-wield after he saw Admiral Whitcomb do it to kill an Elite. The only reason he didn't do it Halo 1 was because that's how the game was set up, not because he physically couldn't. The man can flip a Scorpion tank, he can dual wield whenever he wants to.
What's your explanation for him not doing it in H1?

Mine is that the Mk V only tracked one weapon (maybe the upgrades in CASTLE base fixed this) -- would you like DW in REACH if you can only tell how much ammo you have in one of your weapons?

My explanation for him not doing it in Halo 1? Gameplay. Anyone who dual-wielded the pistols could dominate a firefight. Gameplay was the only reason Chief didn't dual-wield in H1, not for a canon reason. All of the weapons were set up to perform a certain way by themselves.

And also, keeping track of ammo and aiming would be a non-issue (canon-wise) for a Spartan, being that with all their training and such, they would be able to visibly aim, rather than electronically (i.e., the reticle in the HUD), a second weapon even if their suit couldn't do it for 'em.

Also, Kelly began dual-wielding pistols a chapter before Halsey installed their suits new parts. Specifically, Kelly received an "improvement to her neural induction circuits, giving her twitch response time and a speed boost.", Which doesn't sound like a total suit overhaul, and most likely it wasn't something that would grant her the ablility to dual wield.

And what would be your explanation for Marines not driving in Halo 1?

[Edited on 06.19.2009 4:21 PM PDT]

  • 06.19.2009 4:15 PM PDT

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Posted by: II Hunt3r II
Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
Posted by: II Hunt3r II
Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
But it's true... why didn't the Chief Dual wield in Halo: Combat Evolved? He only started when he got his new armor in Halo 2. Kelly dual wielded after the Spartans got the MJOLNIR upgrades in CASTLE base (they got them right before the new pistols and rifles).

Right, Chief must've gotten the idea to dual-wield after he saw Admiral Whitcomb do it to kill an Elite. The only reason he didn't do it Halo 1 was because that's how the game was set up, not because he physically couldn't. The man can flip a Scorpion tank, he can dual wield whenever he wants to.
What's your explanation for him not doing it in H1?

Mine is that the Mk V only tracked one weapon (maybe the upgrades in CASTLE base fixed this) -- would you like DW in REACH if you can only tell how much ammo you have in one of your weapons?

My explanation for him not doing it in Halo 1? Gameplay. Anyone who dual-wielded the pistols could dominate a firefight. Gameplay was the only reason Chief didn't dual-wield in H1, not for a canon reason. All of the weapons were set up to perform a certain way by themselves.

Also, Kelly began dual-wielding pistols a chapter before Halsey installed their suits new parts.

And what would be your explanation for Marines not driving in Halo 1?


they were mentaly retarded befor the cheif got mark iv

[Edited on 06.19.2009 4:17 PM PDT]

  • 06.19.2009 4:16 PM PDT

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Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
No, there should be no dual wielding in Halo REACH. It wouldn't make sense in the timeline, and it flat-out ruins gameplay balance (compare Halo 2 Needler to Halo 1/3 Needler). Should we be able to wield one? Sure. But it would take both hands, maybe you could melee with it.


I am not debating any of the arguments you make here except that "It wouldn't make sense in the timeline..."

Masterchief did not invent holding a gun in either hand.

  • 06.19.2009 4:17 PM PDT

--Maximus: I knew a man who once said, "Death smiles at us all. All a man can do is smile back"
--Commodus: I wonder, did you friend smile at his own death?
--Maximus: You should know. He was you father.

Masterchief didn't duel wield in Halo 1 because the game was not setup for him to. Its very simple, it does not take a technological upgrade in order to hold a gun in either hand. Miranda did it in Halo 3, and she isn't even a spartan.

There was no duel wielding in Halo 1 just because they didn't see fit to put it into the game.

[Edited on 06.19.2009 4:20 PM PDT]

  • 06.19.2009 4:19 PM PDT

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Posted by: Ice Fox 805
Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
No, there should be no dual wielding in Halo REACH. It wouldn't make sense in the timeline, and it flat-out ruins gameplay balance (compare Halo 2 Needler to Halo 1/3 Needler). Should we be able to wield one? Sure. But it would take both hands, maybe you could melee with it.


I am not debating any of the arguments you make here except that "It wouldn't make sense in the timeline..."

Masterchief did not invent holding a gun in either hand.
But since DW wasn't in H1, something was stated to give a reason for it in H2 and H3. New armor. The Mk VI tracked two weapons at the same time, while the Mk V only tracked one. If you could DW in Reach, you'd only see how much ammo you had in your right hand weapon. It's the same for the removal of health packs and fall damage; it was atributed to upgraded armor.

  • 06.19.2009 4:21 PM PDT

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Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
Posted by: Ice Fox 805
Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
No, there should be no dual wielding in Halo REACH. It wouldn't make sense in the timeline, and it flat-out ruins gameplay balance (compare Halo 2 Needler to Halo 1/3 Needler). Should we be able to wield one? Sure. But it would take both hands, maybe you could melee with it.


I am not debating any of the arguments you make here except that "It wouldn't make sense in the timeline..."

Masterchief did not invent holding a gun in either hand.
But since DW wasn't in H1, something was stated to give a reason for it in H2 and H3. New armor. The Mk VI tracked two weapons at the same time, while the Mk V only tracked one. If you could DW in Reach, you'd only see how much ammo you had in your right hand weapon. It's the same for the removal of health packs and fall damage; it was atributed to upgraded armor.


i agree with the health but the dw you are wrong about

halo1 was a very simple game and like stated above if you could dw the pistol would have been way to strong

also there was a vidoe on the limeted edition of halo2 were it showed what halo ce was supposed to be like befor they changed it, he is duel weilding in that

  • 06.19.2009 4:24 PM PDT

--Maximus: I knew a man who once said, "Death smiles at us all. All a man can do is smile back"
--Commodus: I wonder, did you friend smile at his own death?
--Maximus: You should know. He was you father.

Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
Posted by: Ice Fox 805
Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
No, there should be no dual wielding in Halo REACH. It wouldn't make sense in the timeline, and it flat-out ruins gameplay balance (compare Halo 2 Needler to Halo 1/3 Needler). Should we be able to wield one? Sure. But it would take both hands, maybe you could melee with it.


I am not debating any of the arguments you make here except that "It wouldn't make sense in the timeline..."

Masterchief did not invent holding a gun in either hand.
But since DW wasn't in H1, something was stated to give a reason for it in H2 and H3. New armor. The Mk VI tracked two weapons at the same time, while the Mk V only tracked one. If you could DW in Reach, you'd only see how much ammo you had in your right hand weapon. It's the same for the removal of health packs and fall damage; it was atributed to upgraded armor.


That's just Bungie's way of providing explanations in official canon for there being new things happening in a game. If given an opportunity to wield two weapons, I doubt one of the older spartans would opt out simply because they could not track the ammo in the gun.

****Spartans are even seen duel-wielding SMG's in gameplay and during cutscenes in Halo Wars which happens to be long before the fall of Reach. They have even older Mjolnir armor than Masterchief did in the Halo 1.****

[Edited on 06.19.2009 4:31 PM PDT]

  • 06.19.2009 4:25 PM PDT

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Posted by: Ice Fox 805
That's just Bungie's way of providing explanations in official canon for there being new things happening in a game. If given an opportunity to wield two weapons, I doubt one of the older spartans would opt out simply because they could not track the ammo in the gun.

Spartans are even seen duel-wielding SMG's during cutscenes in Halo Wars which happens to be long before the fall of Reach.
IM NOT SAYING HE COULDNT DUAL WIELD.

I'm saying he didn't, because the armor didn't track two weapons at the same time. Sure, it's not that convincing, but neither is the self-injecting biofoam which heals you in H2/3 (biofoam doesn't heal, it only cleans and fills a wound).

From the H2 instruction manual: The Mjolnir Mark VI armor can monitor the status of two weapons simultaneously.

This leads me to believe that before the Mk VI, the suit could only track one weapon at a time. It didn't matter in HW because it was an RTS, not an FPS (where you would be playing as one of those Spartans) aAnd it didn't matter in FS, because it wouldn't be frustrating for players wondering how much ammo their second gun had (FS was just a novel). Since the Mk V didn't track two weapons at the same time, Kelly could have still picked up two at the same time, though she wouldn't have seen the amount of ammo in her left hand Pistol (unless the MJOLNIR upgrades in CASTLE base granted her this ability).

Of course the Chief could have done this in H1, but it would have been bad for gameplay if you could only track one of your weapons' ammo, which would be the explanation for no dual wielding (like the explanation now for health packs in the Mk V-era was that they had biofoam in them, while the biofoam is included within the Mk VI armor).

Also, HW is selectively canon. Do you remember the Spartans had shields in that game? They didn't get shielded armor until the day before Reach fell. So don't believe everything in HW.

  • 06.19.2009 4:32 PM PDT

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Can we stop the," Dual weilding can't be in because of story, blah blah blah"

It is just a simple question should the player character be able to weild a Jackal Energy Shield, in any way, shape or form...

  • 06.19.2009 4:33 PM PDT
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Posted by: Ice Fox 805
Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
Posted by: Ice Fox 805
Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
No, there should be no dual wielding in Halo REACH. It wouldn't make sense in the timeline, and it flat-out ruins gameplay balance (compare Halo 2 Needler to Halo 1/3 Needler). Should we be able to wield one? Sure. But it would take both hands, maybe you could melee with it.


I am not debating any of the arguments you make here except that "It wouldn't make sense in the timeline..."

Masterchief did not invent holding a gun in either hand.
But since DW wasn't in H1, something was stated to give a reason for it in H2 and H3. New armor. The Mk VI tracked two weapons at the same time, while the Mk V only tracked one. If you could DW in Reach, you'd only see how much ammo you had in your right hand weapon. It's the same for the removal of health packs and fall damage; it was atributed to upgraded armor.


That's just Bungie's way of providing explanations in official canon for there being new things happening in a game. If given an opportunity to wield two weapons, I doubt one of the older spartans would opt out simply because they could not track the ammo in the gun.

****Spartans are even seen duel-wielding SMG's in gameplay and during cutscenes in Halo Wars which happens to be long before the fall of Reach. They have even older Mjolnir armor than Masterchief did in the Halo 1.****
Halo Wars in 100% canon. The Mark IV armor definitely didn't have energy shields.

  • 06.19.2009 4:36 PM PDT

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Posted by: zash208
Can we stop the," Dual weilding can't be in because of story, blah blah blah"

It is just a simple question should the player character be able to weild a Jackal Energy Shield, in any way, shape or form...
Wield it? Sure.
But your poll says "dual wield it" so I voted No, because I don't want dual wielding in the game as I think it butchers the weapon sandbox.

  • 06.19.2009 4:37 PM PDT

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