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  • Subject: Forerunner Evidence.
Subject: Forerunner Evidence.
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Okay you guys, SIII and I have some pretty good evidence all backed up right here. I'll start off with my evidence and then SIII is going to conclude our subject with his theory. Many of you have seen what I have said many times, but I have added some more evidence. Here's starters.

In Halo, the last level, Called, "The Maw," You get to the bridge, and what do you know, 343 Guilty Spark, is pulling information from Human, databases. He is looking at the "Pillar of Autumn's" computers. And he says this. "You can't imagine how exciting this is! To have a record of all of our lost time! Human history, is it? Fascinating." 343 Guilty Spark Said that he just got a record of all of his lost time... "Human History is it?" Human, History. There you go. We, are the forerunner.

1. 343 Guilty Spark said hat he was built by the Forerunners (In the books). Now, when 343 Guilty Spark referred to his lost time, how could it mean anything other than the forerunners? It doesn't that is what he meant.

2. Then, since 343 Guilty spark referred to that lost time, as human history, how could that not mean humans are forerunners...

3. Thirdly, if a long time ago, the forerunners (Now known as humans) were alive, and they built the Halo's. And when the Halo's were activated, and wiped out most of the forerunners, wouldn't that make for millions of years of, "Lost Time?" Hmmmmm..... The humans, are just a patch filling in for the forerunners, The Humans of NOW may not have built the Halo's, but they did build them a long time ago.

I don't want to get too in depth and start contradicting my insight that this is only a game and the plots don't go that far in, but Zuka Zammamee, when talking to the prophets on one occasion, said something about his armor, and the shields and those things, coming directly from the forerunners. They were having a conversation about the shields that Master Chief has, and speculating weather or not it was better than the Jackal's wrist shield. He sounded concerned about the human shields being better. And asked something to the affect of: "Didn't the Forerunner themselves give us this armor and technology?" To the best of my knowledge and memory (Which is extremely good, I read this book about a year ago.) there was no substantial reply to what Zuka inquired. Meaning that they may not have given the Covenant those supplies, and maybe the prophets are using this war for their own advantage...

Now, Eagle117 your question went something along the lines of why did they create a weapon for their own demise. I really don't know why they would do that. Hmm, But here's something, that doesn't prove either way that humans are not forerunners. All that does is prove that we/them have made a stupid invention.

And As for your other idea, if it were fired all sentient life would be destroyed. Okay.... How many years ago was it destroyed? 100,000 years right? Hate to use other people's arguments, but who's system? Earths? Ours? The Covie system? Or the previous more advanced form of humans (i.e. Forerunners.) Which would be very important to recognize, as 343 would only assume his (More his Creators) solar system, he wouldn't automatically assume somebody else’s. And even so 343 acts like he knows the Chief. Do you remember anything from the book? How about The library level. How about that marine. Staff Sergeant Mobuto. Marvin, Mobuto.

"Ah," 343 Guilty Spark said, peering down over the Spartan's shoulder. "The other Reclaimer. His combat skin proved even less suitable than yours."
The soldier looked up over his shoulder. "What do you mean?"
"Is this a test, Reclaimer?" the Monitor seemed genuinely puzzled. "I found him wandering through a structure on the other side of the ring, and brought him to the same point where you started." Page 244 (Bottom paragraphs, word for word.)

That guy. You forget about him? I hope not, I hope nobody would forget about him, because that guy, is a real man. But more to the point. He called him the other Reclaimer. And note, "Reclaimer" is capitalized... That's right, meaning, he isn't just ANY reclaimer, he's the Reclaimer. Human. Not just the Spartans. It isn't just Master Chief that he thinks is the Reclaimer. He is calling human's Reclaimers. Humans. 343 Calling human's reclaimers.

OH OH and Lastly before I forget. The Forerunner didn't give the armor and weapons and stuff to the covenant (Further proving my point) because in the game and books, 343 says "The other species." While referring to the covenant. And if 343 Doesn’t know who the covenant are, then the forerunner obviously never really made any transactions such as those, and that would conclude that the Covenant are not in contact with the forerunner, placing the forerunner in the spot that the forerunner should be in. (Non-associated with the covenant.)

Check this out.

"Why would you hesitate to do what you've already done?" 343 Guilty Spark Demanded.

What YOU have already done. Humans. Possibly. And That proves that there was AT LEAST, a human looking figure on Halo before. Now then take into consideration he call ALL humans Reclaimer. So he was very possibly saying, (Rewritten in my own words what he could in fact have been saying.) "Why would you hesitate to do what your people have done before?"

That's not it.

"If you are unwilling to help--I will simply find another," Spark said conversationally.

Doesn't a "Reclaimer" need to activate the installation? "...I will simply find another." He is referring to the human race as the Reclaimer.

That's still not all.

What type of gravitation system do the covenant have? They have mysterious forms that just automatically attract you to the floor, now UNSC and Human artificial gravity is created how? (Remember in the boxing ring where Chief Really screwed up those four O.D.S.T.'s. It's call Centrifugal force. What type of artificial gravity does the halo have? You don't even need the book to know this one, it's a "ring" world. Obviously sense it is spinning there's it's gravitational poll. But if you're going to get cranky I'll give you the fricking book example.

"Captain," Cortana said, "the object is clearly artificial. There's a gravity field that controls the ring's spin and keeps the atmosphere inside."

That type of Artificial Gravity is Human based. Oh and would you like more about its gravity?

"But it appears that the ring has an oxygen-nitrogen based atmosphere an earth normal gravity."

Now I don't know if you caught all of that but its got earth normal gravity, and the atmosphere is perfect human living conditions, complete with perfect air, nice gravity, and weather conditions such as sun, snow, rain, etc... Wouldn't you think, that whoever built the Halo's, would build them to their own liking? Yes, I would think that and so would you. This is exactly as a human planet should be. The G-Forces not too extreme, and the air is perfect and breathable.

Now, lets go over everything, that I've said.

1. He is referring to the human race as Reclaimer. Not just Master Chief, and the forerunner activated it before, 343 says this, he says, that we've done this before. He was referring to the Forerunner, but we are human, he didn't know we call ourselves human. But never-the-less, he says we're Forerunner. (Inadvertently, in fact, does he ever do anything advertently?) Now to number two.

2. Earth Normal Gravity, and Oxygen-Nitrogen based air. Why would this be? Maybe because the builders of the halo wanted to survive on their own creation, so they would obviously build something to their liking. Even further proof that Humans built the ring.

3. The gravity system is human based. It is a human model of artificial gravity.

4. He said he had considerable time to ponder the question, does "Considerable time" sound like 100,000 years? I think it does. (Note: This does not mean an MC look alike, he refer's to all humans as Reclaimer.)

5. He said "Last time you asked me..." "...And I still say yes." 343 has talked to human life forms before. On Halo. And you know what? There is way more than just sufficient proof here. Please understand this time. It seems like every time I post one of these there is plenty of evidence but you guys try to flame it and forget about what I said, and how much sense it makes.

And in conclusion, The main base and background in "First Strike" is, when the spartans and Dr. Halsey are looking for the forerunner artifact. And Dr. Halsey tells Kelly to use her sense, to find where they (The forerunner) placed it. So Kelly, uses her Human senses, to find it. See what I'm getting at? In other words, Kelly had to have thought like a forerunner, and in order to do that, it'd be easier if you were forerunner. This isn't an uncommon thing for writers to do, it's called "Foreshadowing" and I think Eric Nylund was perhaps foreshadowing right there, that the Humans are in fact the Forerunner.


SIII is going to add onto this "theory." I hope you understand a little more now.

  • 07.17.2004 11:46 PM PDT
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AND IF THATS NOT ENOGUH FOR YOU!!!!!!!!




You know I think? I’m going with the forerunner = Human connection, I mean think about it, the covies want to come to earth and take it over, they obviously bombarded some of Earth, we’ve all seen the vid of MC dropping through space onto the covie ship, but obviously Earth is where a very very important artifact of the Forerunner is, you know? Or else mankind would just be dead, glassed over, and why all of a sudden out on harvest, why wouldn‘t they just do the same to Earth as they did to harvest?

Ackerson when the covies first attack probably didn’t have his position, I mean the wars been going on for what like 10 years now? Harvest was a long time ago, but why all of a sudden would the covies just attack? They must have found an artifact that pointed to our system and space, I think that the Prophets and some of the Brutes are controlling everyone else into joining the Covenant. I mean the Covie’s worship the Forerunners, but yet in FS in the epilogue, when the Brute and the Prophet are talking about the artifact and the "great ones," the Prophet talks about how it wont matter about the great ones soon, and that nothing can or will stand in there way of domination conquest. So I think that Mankind will uncover that they are or are some how closely related to the forerunners, and the Elites will want to save/protect us but the Prophets wont hear of it, saying that we some how betrayed them, and are tainted anyways, even though they are Forerunners. Or something like that, and then the Covies will start fighting like the Elites, Hunters, and some Grunts, and Jackals, against the Prophets, Brute’s some Elites, and Grunts, Jackals, and Hunters. But I’ve heard (If anyone could get me a reference) that the Elites don’t like the Brutes and vice versa. So I don’t think it would be hard for the Elites to fight Brutes (Even further proving my point that they may go to war.), and I also think that Mankind will unlock some secrets, and make the Forerunner tech more advanced, cause the covie just copy and steal the tech, but mankind is smart enough, so when they find all this stuff, they will make it, and end up destroying most of the covies, but I do think Ackerson will some how try to steal the tech with his SII's, I think the SIII's are new Spartans but I also think that some how the original Spartans will come into play...... well that’s about it, so what yah guys think?

Someone said something about the rings firing some time in the past so therefore the Forerunners couldn’t be Human. But that’s why I think they are Human, because the Forerunner would want to keep part of themselves alive, right? The ring was only made to destroy things of certain size and mass, there for the Forerunners would probably make some time released DNA system, or something so that another species like the Forerunner or Forerunner DNA exactly, would be grown sometime after the rings fired. I mean if mankind was to die, we would try to leave something of us behind, like DNA samples, time capsules...etc etc. Now I haven’t seen this theory anywhere else, but I believe all the artifacts besides the rings really were hidden around Forerunner space, so that those who came after, or maybe even mankind, which they planned to come after them would find them, and advance at faster pace then forerunners even did. Making them even more powerful than their opposition.

Here’s your original version. Feel free to tell me to go to hell for screwing up your theory… lol.

You know i think im going with the forruner conection, i mean think about it the covies want to come to earth and take it over i eman they obviously bobard some of the planet i mean weve all seen the vid of MC dropping through space onto the covi ship but obviously eath is were a very very important artifact of the forruners you nkow or else mankindw ould just be dead glassed over and why all of a sudden out on harve. oh yeah and akerson when the covies first atteck probley didnt have his post i mean the wars been going on for what like 10 years now but im not sure ont aht one so you can discredit that theroy basht here but harvest was a long time ago but why all of a sudden would the covis just attack they must have found an artifact that pointed to our system and space i think that the phrophets and some of the brutes are controlling everyone else int he covi i mean the covi worship the forrunners but yet in FS in the epiloge when the brute and the phropet are talking about the artifact and the gerat ones the phrophet talks about how it wont matter about the great ones soon and that nothin can or will stnad int here way of domination there conquest so i think that Mankind will uncover that they are or are some how closely related to the forrunners and the elites will want to save/protect us bt the phrophets wont hear of it saying that we some how betrayed them and are tainted anyways even though they are forrunners or something like it and then the covis will start fighting like the elites hunters and some grunts and jackles against the phrophets brutes soem elites and grunts jackles and hunters but ive heard(if anyone could get me a refrance)taht the elites dont like the brutes and vice versa so i dont think it would be hard for the elites to fight bruets, and i also think that mankind will unlock some secrets and make the forrunner tech more advance cuase the covi jsut coppy and steal tech but mankind is inginuative so when they find all this stuff they will make that stuff and end up destryoning most of the covis but i do think atkins will some how try to steal the tech with his SII's i think the SIII are new spartans but i also think that some how the original spartans will come into play...... well thats about it so what yah guys think

someone said something about the rings fireing some time in the past so therefore the forruners couldnt be human. but tahts why i think they are human beecause the forrunnerw ould want to keep part of themselves alive the ring was only made to destroy things of certain size and mass there for the forrunners would prolbey make some time reliesed DNA system or something so that anotehr speceies like the forrunner or forrunner DNA exactly would be grown sometiem after the rings fired i mean if mankind was to die we would try to leave something of us behind like dna samples time capsels...etc etc now i havnt seen this theory any where but i belive all the artifacts besides the rings realy were hidden around forrunner space so that those who came after or maybe even mankind which they planned to come after them would find them and advance at faster pace then fourrunenrs even did. but thats jsut me pls noone lflame me and im sorry if this isnt the right theard to post this at and im also sorry for all they typos sorry


wooo now what do you think

  • 07.17.2004 11:47 PM PDT
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no comment, I dont speculate anymore. but for the last time chaplain. its NOT centrifigul force. thats a errr"dumbed" down term and is very much incorrect. its called....

Incidental centripital acceleration

Im working on a physics major so believe me I know what I am talking about. I havent read S111,s add on but I read most of your theory chap, besides the flaws bungie built into Halos physics itself its pretty sound.

  • 07.17.2004 11:57 PM PDT
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Deathscythe, you really should lok over SIII's theory, it looks good, (And promising.)

  • 07.18.2004 12:02 AM PDT
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ok read it, lots of speculation in it, but your right in the fact that it holds promise. could be interesting if it plays out in the way s111 posted...

  • 07.18.2004 12:06 AM PDT
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How come forerunner technology was left on the Prophet homeworld as well, since that's where most of the technology was derived from.

  • 07.18.2004 12:06 AM PDT

Devil is Double is Deuce and Joker always trumps Deuce.

i'm not gettin involved in this again
so chap, you can put down your flame-proof shield
lol

  • 07.18.2004 12:09 AM PDT
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we dont know were the heck the phropets are from we only know that they have gotten alot of forunenr tech but there still looking for the one big find for the main haul and thats on earth the covis are like the flood with tech... they find tech they use it they dont bother to improve apne it they just look for otehr better tech to add ther theres so we have no idea were the phrophets got there tech it was probley just from scavending forruner artifacts IE halo

  • 07.18.2004 12:10 AM PDT
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How come forerunner technology was left on the Prophet homeworld as well, since that's where most of the technology was derived from.

Simply put, you don't know that. Where in any book or game does it say there was forerunner tech (for sure) on the prophet homeworld?

  • 07.18.2004 12:11 AM PDT
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oh really thats a pretty good theory!

  • 07.18.2004 12:11 AM PDT
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i'm not gettin involved in this again
so chap, you can put down your flame-proof shield
lol


No no, you can be involved, just don't flame me and SIII... aight?

[Edited on 7/18/2004 12:13:20 AM]

  • 07.18.2004 12:12 AM PDT
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I don't wanna become to involved either, all I will say is that this theory comes together quite well.

  • 07.18.2004 12:15 AM PDT

Devil is Double is Deuce and Joker always trumps Deuce.

Posted by: Chaplain
i'm not gettin involved in this again
so chap, you can put down your flame-proof shield
lol


No no, you can be involved, just don't flame me and SIII... aight?


i'm not gettin involved and i'm not gonna flame

in fact i've read both yours and eagle 117's theories and they are both very good and researched well.
fact is, we won't know whats what concerning forerunner and won't know til halo 2 and even then they may not tell us

all we can do is guess

to everyone who has posted theories of any kind: good job

  • 07.18.2004 12:16 AM PDT
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You are wrong the covenant are the forerunners because if you look at the symbols
inside the 343gs leve they are the same symbols as the ones in the back of
an elite and i read in a book all the weapons they use are copies of the forerunners
and the plasma technology is the same , i think the covenant found halo after they
lost it, prolly from a big war or sumthin and went back so hah prove me wrong
on the elite symbol thingy

  • 07.18.2004 12:17 AM PDT
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yes but its funn guessing!!!!!!!!!!

  • 07.18.2004 12:17 AM PDT
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lol the eilites ahve the symbol of the forrunenr on them becuase they worship them the covis in the epiloge of FS even say they arnt forrunenr a phropet talks about how soon the legacy of the greatsones(forrunenrs) wont matter..... ist that in my part of the theory????

  • 07.18.2004 12:19 AM PDT
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well put, only reason they carry the fore-runner symbols around on em is cause the fore-runners are what inspire them. they are their religion..sorta..

  • 07.18.2004 12:20 AM PDT
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oh and it also says somewhere in the FS book that the covis copy everything they get so if they got there hands on forrunner weaopns they would ahve just copied them

  • 07.18.2004 12:21 AM PDT
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You are wrong the covenant are the forerunners because if you look at the symbols
inside the 343gs leve they are the same symbols as the ones in the back of
an elite and i read in a book all the weapons they use are copies of the forerunners
and the plasma technology is the same , i think the covenant found halo after they
lost it, prolly from a big war or sumthin and went back so hah prove me wrong
on the elite symbol thingy


Did you read the part in my theory when I said that Zuka asked about the weapons and technology, and then the prophet never gave him a substantial reply... The prophets lied to the covenant, saying that it came directly from the Forerunner. It didn't.

  • 07.18.2004 12:23 AM PDT

Devil is Double is Deuce and Joker always trumps Deuce.

Posted by: Griph Weathers
You are wrong the covenant are the forerunners because if you look at the symbols
inside the 343gs leve they are the same symbols as the ones in the back of
an elite and i read in a book all the weapons they use are copies of the forerunners
and the plasma technology is the same , i think the covenant found halo after they
lost it, prolly from a big war or sumthin and went back so hah prove me wrong
on the elite symbol thingy



stupid posts like that are why reading the books should be mandatory before posting
lol

  • 07.18.2004 12:23 AM PDT
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you know for the most part i agree with you, and i've thought like this ever since i read the flood, like you both said in reference to guilty spark that he mentioned past experience with Reclaimers and such. One thing i feel you missed out on that might solidify these theories or alter them is the fact that in the book the flood, which by the way doesn't mention it in the game, MC mysteriously knows how to use the panels that control things like security, the light bridge etc. But the thing that stands out in my mind the most is in "the fall of reach" Dr. Halsey in the beginning has to find children with certain genetic markers. Like mentioned earlier in your article and forgive me for the lack of specific reference the destruction of certain size organic matter, allowing for time capsule DNA time activated cloning machines whatever. My point being that possibly human's are "an affront to the gods" because we are infact, an inferior evolution, or corrupted version of the forerunner. And the fact that Doctor Halsey had to find so called "perfect DNA markers" or whatever (again sorry for the bad reference/quotation) for her subject spartans. So basically what i'm trying to say in so many words is that the regular average human is a crappily evolved forrunner decendant and the super human spartans even without implants and enhancements are what the forunner were or are closest to. But down the human gene tree so few are left because of reproduction with inferior genes. I think that covers all i have to say, although again i must apologize for the lack of supporting evidence, proper references and fragmented thought and theory. Cheers

  • 07.18.2004 12:25 AM PDT

Devil is Double is Deuce and Joker always trumps Deuce.

you know i'm starting to believe Chap's theory


<deathscythe is gonna kill me for sayin that>

cheers to Chap and SIII

  • 07.18.2004 12:27 AM PDT
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har har Mc,s bro. its not totally unbelieveable. it has flaws but I am not pointing them out. the day before H2 comes or something I will point em out but till then ill let this one run. its darn good so far...

[Edited on 7/18/2004 12:29:18 AM]

  • 07.18.2004 12:29 AM PDT

Devil is Double is Deuce and Joker always trumps Deuce.

phew

<discreetly erases his will>

lol, j/k (about the will part)

[Edited on 7/18/2004 12:32:05 AM]

  • 07.18.2004 12:30 AM PDT

Good stuff Chaplain and SIII.

I definitely have some arguments to bring up concerning all of this, but I'm going to bed right now. I'll try and look this thread up tomorrow so that I can lend you my thoughts.

Oh yea, don't forget that even though I will argue againt this theory tomorrow, it doesn't necessarily mean anything. Remember that I've also writen a thread or two on the Forerunner, Human connections... one earlier this week as a matter of fact. I just enjoy having well conducted arguments. Hopefully we can stay clear of all the flaming that went on last time:)

I'll talk to ya'll tomorrow,
-Eagle 117

[Edited on 7/18/2004 12:56:26 AM]

  • 07.18.2004 12:40 AM PDT